2016-17 Phoenix Suns Preseason Thread

[lilfishi22]

^adding yet another guard with an unreliable shot.

Great point. He's essentially a 6'6 Rondo-lite

[nevetsov]

^adding yet another guard with an unreliable shot.

Great point. He's essentially a 6'6 Rondo-lite

If they are collecting them, perhaps we can flip them Archie...

[DRK]

The Knight trade is the gift that keeps giving.....

ALthough hindsight is 20/20. I highly doubt McD expected Booker to be this good this early, but we really have a bit of a issue if Knight cant adapt to his sixth man role, or when Knight has one of his Knightmare games and shoots 1/9 and 5 To's.

[lilfishi22]

^adding yet another guard with an unreliable shot.

Great point. He's essentially a 6'6 Rondo-lite

If they are collecting them, perhaps we can flip them Archie...

Yes please

[lilfishi22]

The Knight trade is the gift that keeps giving.....

ALthough hindsight is 20/20. I highly doubt McD expected Booker to be this good this early, but we really have a bit of a issue if Knight cant adapt to his sixth man role, or when Knight has one of his Knightmare games and shoots 1/9 and 5 To's.

The Knight trade had always been McD's biggest mistake in my book. Even if we never drafted Booker, I still disliked the dual PG line up.

[DRK]

The Knight trade is the gift that keeps giving.....

ALthough hindsight is 20/20. I highly doubt McD expected Booker to be this good this early, but we really have a bit of a issue if Knight cant adapt to his sixth man role, or when Knight has one of his Knightmare games and shoots 1/9 and 5 To's.

The Knight trade had always been McD's biggest mistake in my book. Even if we never drafted Booker, I still disliked the dual PG line up.

Wouldnt mind actually moving Knight for Evans and Ajinca. Evans can play 1,2 and 3, and Ajinca would probably be our best center on the roster.

[MrMiyagi]

The Knight trade is the gift that keeps giving.....

ALthough hindsight is 20/20. I highly doubt McD expected Booker to be this good this early, but we really have a bit of a issue if Knight cant adapt to his sixth man role, or when Knight has one of his Knightmare games and shoots 1/9 and 5 To's.

The Knight trade had always been McD's biggest mistake in my book. Even if we never drafted Booker, I still disliked the dual PG line up.

Wouldnt mind actually moving Knight for Evans and Ajinca. Evans can play 1,2 and 3, and Ajinca would probably be our best center on the roster.

[lilfishi22]

The Knight trade is the gift that keeps giving.....

ALthough hindsight is 20/20. I highly doubt McD expected Booker to be this good this early, but we really have a bit of a issue if Knight cant adapt to his sixth man role, or when Knight has one of his Knightmare games and shoots 1/9 and 5 To's.

The Knight trade had always been McD's biggest mistake in my book. Even if we never drafted Booker, I still disliked the dual PG line up.

Wouldnt mind actually moving Knight for Evans and Ajinca. Evans can play 1,2 and 3, and Ajinca would probably be our best center on the roster.

I'd rather keep what we have rather than mess around with chemistry and fit by bringing in Evans and Ajinca. Until Knight says he isn't happy coming off the bench and it becomes an issue then I don't mind Knight on the team.

[NTB]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

And even some of our more experienced players such as Bledsoe and Knight still have a lot of learning to do.

If Bledsoe and Knight haven't learned 80-90% of what they need to do by now that's troubling. I think whatever we see from these guys this year is there finished product.

[Zelaznyrules]

And even some of our more experienced players such as Bledsoe and Knight still have a lot of learning to do.

If Bledsoe and Knight haven't learned 80-90% of what they need to do by now that's troubling. I think whatever we see from these guys this year is there finished product.

Knight's 24 and moving to a new position, I think he still has a lot to learn. Bledsoe, well, maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. There's a lot he still needs to learn but maybe he's just all he'll ever be. But I'm not convinced. I know Nash, for example, improved well into his late 20's and he was always a smart player. And while minutes are not everything, Kobe had played more minutes by the time that he'd turned 22 than Bledsoe has logged for his career thus far. It's cliched but there is no substitute for experience.

[lilfishi22]

And even some of our more experienced players such as Bledsoe and Knight still have a lot of learning to do.

If Bledsoe and Knight haven't learned 80-90% of what they need to do by now that's troubling. I think whatever we see from these guys this year is there finished product.

Knight's 24 and moving to a new position, I think he still has a lot to learn. Bledsoe, well, maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. There's a lot he still needs to learn but maybe he's just all he'll ever be. But I'm not convinced. I know Nash, for example, improved well into his late 20's and he was always a smart player. And while minutes are not everything, Kobe had played more minutes by the time that he'd turned 22 than Bledsoe has logged for his career thus far. It's cliched but there is no substitute for experience.

I see it like this. Most players generally don't change their style significantly as they progress in their career. They get get more efficient or better at their style but they won't change significantly. It's usually not until later in their career when they can't be who they always were, that's when their game have to evolve.

Knight isn't old at 24 and he'll continue to learn and develop throughout his career but he's not going to suddenly stop becoming a score-first PG he's always been. He might become a better and more efficient scorer but he'll still be a scorer. I think that's what BW meant by Bledsoe and Knight being 80-90% of the player they will end up becoming.

[asudevil]

The Knight trade is the gift that keeps giving.....

ALthough hindsight is 20/20. I highly doubt McD expected Booker to be this good this early, but we really have a bit of a issue if Knight cant adapt to his sixth man role, or when Knight has one of his Knightmare games and shoots 1/9 and 5 To's.

The Knight trade had always been McD's biggest mistake in my book. Even if we never drafted Booker, I still disliked the dual PG line up.

I have no problem with the dual PG lineup in theory....but throwing out two guys 6'3 or shorter is not a viable solution.

MCW, if he could shoot, would have been PERFECT. Even a guy like Tyreke Evans or Shaun Livingston (both if younger and healthy) would have been great.

As far as McD goes, his biggest mistakes were how he handled the whole IT/Bledsoe/Dragic situation. Signing IT was an absolute steal. And under any circumstances keeping him would have been great. But the ramifications of the trade basically spiraled out of control.

He ended up with:
a.) Dragic - who didnt want to play SG
b.) IT - didnt want to play off the bench
c.) Bledsoe - the young PG who took priority over both

IT was signed because we viewed him as a cheap asset that could be flipped for profit. After all the turmoil that the signing caused, we ended up with a late First. For the return and the problems it caused, it was in hindsight a terrible signing/trade.

And i think in a panic to either suffice his or sarver's need to throw two PGs out there, they panicked after the Dragic and IT trades to bring in Knight.

And at the time I, like almost everyone out there, thought that there was no conceivable way that the Lakers franchise and fans would let Kobe's exit fizzle like it did. We were all sure that that Laker's pick would turn into a late first and the Lakers would sign one or two stars to pair with Kobe to end his run.

The Laker's for the past 2 or 3 years are an anomaly to their history....and because of that, that stupid pick is still in play.

But as far as i'm concerned, that whole Suns/Celtics and Suns/Sixers/Bucks trade fiasco was a disaster that McD will have a hard time living down. We probably could have EASILY ended up with Knight (if we wanted) while still retaining that Laker's pick in the process.

[asudevil]

And even some of our more experienced players such as Bledsoe and Knight still have a lot of learning to do.

If Bledsoe and Knight haven't learned 80-90% of what they need to do by now that's troubling. I think whatever we see from these guys this year is there finished product.

If Bledsoe is done growing, i'm perfectly fine. A healthy Bledsoe at PG is almost premiere. 18/4/6 is nothing to scoff at. If Bledsoe hadnt missed almost a year over the past 3 seasons we wouldnt be having this conversation about him.

I think our problem with what Bledsoe does stem from what we, as suns fans, expect from an elite PG. We've been spoiled beyond belief for 20+ years. KJ/Kidd/Nash (and even Marbury at some point) have made us think that a PG should be a 10+ assist playmaker, while scoring at an almost unchallenged level. And after ALMOST getting Curry for Amare years ago, Curry almost sets the bar for us in terms of what we look for in our PG today.

I almost feel like the Suns are synonymous with having the best PG in the NBA, and unless we have that then we NEED to do better. Untill we get a Rubio/Curry hybrid, we will always be disappointed.

Knight is another story. Him still being here is a mistake and has been one for a long time. He's not a PG and he's not a SG. And what we gave up for him, will always be a black-eye as long as the Laker's pick is still in play.

[Zelaznyrules]

If Bledsoe and Knight haven't learned 80-90% of what they need to do by now that's troubling. I think whatever we see from these guys this year is there finished product.

Knight's 24 and moving to a new position, I think he still has a lot to learn. Bledsoe, well, maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. There's a lot he still needs to learn but maybe he's just all he'll ever be. But I'm not convinced. I know Nash, for example, improved well into his late 20's and he was always a smart player. And while minutes are not everything, Kobe had played more minutes by the time that he'd turned 22 than Bledsoe has logged for his career thus far. It's cliched but there is no substitute for experience.

I see it like this. Most players generally don't change their style significantly as they progress in their career. They get get more efficient or better at their style but they won't change significantly. It's usually not until later in their career when they can't be who they always were, that's when their game have to evolve.

Knight isn't old at 24 and he'll continue to learn and develop throughout his career but he's not going to suddenly stop becoming a score-first PG he's always been. He might become a better and more efficient scorer but he'll still be a scorer. I think that's what BW meant by Bledsoe and Knight being 80-90% of the player they will end up becoming.

Yeah, I agree the foundation is there and they won't usually stray too far from that, especially when personality is such a big part of the way some of these guys play. Knight will always be a score first guard. But I have to believe he can learn the difference between a good shot and an incredibly stupid shot. And for Eric, I believe he can and will develop a feel as to when to take over a game and when to feed his teammates. He's already showing signs of that this preseason. Both of them need to learn how to be part of an offense rather than always trying to be the offense, Bledsoe's come further in a short time on this than Knight but they both have a ways to go.

[bwgood77]

And even some of our more experienced players such as Bledsoe and Knight still have a lot of learning to do.

If Bledsoe and Knight haven't learned 80-90% of what they need to do by now that's troubling. I think whatever we see from these guys this year is there finished product.

If Bledsoe is done growing, i'm perfectly fine. A healthy Bledsoe at PG is almost premiere. 18/4/6 is nothing to scoff at. If Bledsoe hadnt missed almost a year over the past 3 seasons we wouldnt be having this conversation about him.

I think our problem with what Bledsoe does stem from what we, as suns fans, expect from an elite PG. We've been spoiled beyond belief for 20+ years. KJ/Kidd/Nash (and even Marbury at some point) have made us think that a PG should be a 10+ assist playmaker, while scoring at an almost unchallenged level. And after ALMOST getting Curry for Amare years ago, Curry almost sets the bar for us in terms of what we look for in our PG today.

I almost feel like the Suns are synonymous with having the best PG in the NBA, and unless we have that then we NEED to do better. Untill we get a Rubio/Curry hybrid, we will always be disappointed.

Knight is another story. Him still being here is a mistake and has been one for a long time. He's not a PG and he's not a SG. And what we gave up for him, will always be a black-eye as long as the Laker's pick is still in play.

Oh I agree about Bledsoe. I kind of either thought about or meant to mention that I'm somewhat fine with Bledsoe at this point, but still, I don't think they will change their ways much more than about 10-20% unless their capabilities change. I like that Bledsoe became more of a leader and kind of feel his usage has decreased and his stats may go down, but that's fine by me if he passes early in the possesion and lets other do ball movement and end up with the assist and shot.

[jcsunsfan]

The Knight trade is the gift that keeps giving.....

ALthough hindsight is 20/20. I highly doubt McD expected Booker to be this good this early, but we really have a bit of a issue if Knight cant adapt to his sixth man role, or when Knight has one of his Knightmare games and shoots 1/9 and 5 To's.

The Knight trade had always been McD's biggest mistake in my book. Even if we never drafted Booker, I still disliked the dual PG line up.

Every manager makes mistakes. He made several deals in a very short window there. The Dragic trade was one of the best deals he ever made.

[kennydorglas]

All depends on the Lakers pick. If it's worse than top5, it's a clear win for McD no matter what.

[Villalobos]

There's so many ways things could have gone and will go differently, I feel it's kind of useless to dwell on it too much. Maybe if the Suns keep the Lakers pick they miss out on Booker, draft Mudiay, and whoever they choose with the Lakers pick turns out to be a bust. Maybe in this alternate universe where they keep the pick the Lakers trade for Boogie, have a little better luck with free agency with him, and the pick ends up being 13 or 14 or higher. Maybe everything is sunshine and roses with the pick and the Suns missed out on a superstar and a path to a championship. Who knows.

Like, even if Philly ends up getting an amazing player there's no way to know if the Suns would have picked the same guy unless it's a LeBron/Duncan type number one pick.

[jcsunsfan]

All depends on the Lakers pick. If it's worse than top5, it's a clear win for McD no matter what.

Yep. He decided not to gamble on where the pick would fall and took a more obvious commodity. As a GM, the point is to build a team, not to win trades. There are times that you are willing to "lose" a trade to make the team better.