Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

[Duke4life831]

But the CJ/Zion dynamic definitely worries me. Teams are just going to spam the PnR with those two involved. And the thing is, even if they play the PnR well initially, there is a great chance one of them just gets lost in a later rotation. And this is why I prefer Jose in the starting lineup over Murphy, even though I completely understand viewpoints to have Murphy in there. But with each passing preseason game I think its pretty damn clear there needs to be another guy that can handle the ball out there with BI/Zion. Zion's handle is still way too loose. Jose fills that 3rd ball handler spot on the offensive end.

But defensively, Id much prefer Jose being the guy taking on the screen in the PnR. Id feel much more comfortable in that scenario on the defensive side. Which also will make BI's and Zion's jobs much easier as well on both ends. Allow Herb to take the best wing, while Jose takes the best guard. BI can take the next guy, then put Zion on the worst perimeter player. The on the offensive end, allow BI to be the primary ball handler, and allow him and Zion to dominate the shots in that lineup. Again I get the view of having Murphy out there instead because of his size and sharpshooting ability. But he still has no on ball ability and his defense still has a ways to go. Jose to me is just the easier and more simple fix.

But ya just not a fan of CJ in the starting lineup. Hell not even the biggest fan of him in the starting lineup even if just one of BI or Zion is available. His defense is horrific and ya his assists come more from just having the ball in his hands for a lengthy amount of time, he isnt that good of a playmaker and can go tunnel vision way too often. Everything about CJ screams 6th man (a very good one by the way), except for his name and salary. That's the only reason why many view the idea of him as a 6th man such an egregious idea.

As always, agree with most of your assesment. One qualm being, BI has yet to play. Last yr It was BI & Graham before CJ with BI improving over the course of the season. I would think Zion is a better 2nd option than Graham but therein is the preseaon issue IMO.. Zion is not ready to be a primary ball handler in the traffic he has seen but BI was.. so realistically, Zion should be a better 2nd option than Graham, where I would make the concession on a 3rd to have Murphy in there for his spacing ability. Not to mention I think Zion & Murphy have some court chemistry ..

Murphy went 7-10 vs Pistons & was left open, then hit 4 3's in the first Q vs Miami & was left open but CJ's tunnel vision rared it's head going 1-7 trying to score in traffic vs hitting the open man who was scorching hot from 3`... No point starting him if CJ is not going to use his gravity effectively. He's just a defensive liability at that ppint. Especially when he's forcing & bricking like in the Suns series.

You could be right that a 3rd ball handler might be needed but the Ideal thing would have been to run both these combinations during preseason to see how it all fits but unfortunately half the team is out with injury, including BI.

My only seperation from your overall stance being Murphy over Alvarado, everything else, same page.

I agree that Zion should be able to handle 2nd ball handling duties. Even if he's not right away, I think its worth the bumps and bruises early on. But ya that is one of the main reasons I prefer Jose out there over Murphy. Just in case of those moments if Zion isnt feeling it handling the ball, you got Jose who can do that stuff.

And again to be crystal clear, you wont see me complaining if they put Murphy into the starting lineup, the dude is a flat out sharpshooter. Id much prefer him out there over CJ in the starting group. I just think Jose fills the holes of the starting lineup a little better is all. But ya I would be over the moon if Willie ends up putting either guy in the starting lineup.

I will say this, with each passing preseason game (I know CJ only has played 2 so far), I know its just preseason but really just dont like CJ in the starting lineup. Hell Jose has been the overall better player in preseason so far. That starting lineup just doesnt need another on ball scorer, there is going to be plenty of scoring. Either bring in the ultimate glue guard in Jose, or the ultimate floor spacer in Murphy. Both are far superior options in my opinion over CJ. Really just not a fan of CJ's game overall, especially as a starter.

[Whole Truth]

I agree that Zion should be able to handle 2nd ball handling duties. Even if he's not right away, I think its worth the bumps and bruises early on. But ya that is one of the main reasons I prefer Jose out there over Murphy. Just in case of those moments if Zion isnt feeling it handling the ball, you got Jose who can do that stuff.

And again to be crystal clear, you wont see me complaining if they put Murphy into the starting lineup, the dude is a flat out sharpshooter. Id much prefer him out there over CJ in the starting group. I just think Jose fills the holes of the starting lineup a little better is all. But ya I would be over the moon if Willie ends up putting either guy in the starting lineup.

I will say this, with each passing preseason game (I know CJ only has played 2 so far), I know its just preseason but really just dont like CJ in the starting lineup. Hell Jose has been the overall better player in preseason so far. That starting lineup just doesnt need another on ball scorer, there is going to be plenty of scoring. Either bring in the ultimate glue guard in Jose, or the ultimate floor spacer in Murphy. Both are far superior options in my opinion over CJ. Really just not a fan of CJ's game overall, especially as a starter.

Until we see how either fit I can't argue whether or not Alvarado or Murphy would be the better option difinitively & won't. It's all theoretical at this point to disagree either way.

What I will say with confidence however, is this. I know Murphy's skillset would benefit more from the starters than Alvarado because of Zion & BI's gravity. Murphy won't get that same gravity off the bench with his limited creation ability. We've also seen the bench productive without him to say it won't be. As a matter of fact, the bench had looked better than the half starters all preseason with Alvarado a key ingrediant as to why to not think moving him off the unit won't be disruptive to it's chemistry.

BI hasn't played yet & as a result Zion has been bogged down as the primary ball handler. Are we sure when BI returns as the primary ball handler that they will need another ?. Whereas, we know Murphy was left open after hitting 7 3's versus Detroit playing with & off Zion's gravity, maybe that was just Detroit being a young inexperienced team... but then Murphy goes 4-5 against the Heat first Q & is left open again despite being hot where he could have had more 3's that Q if CJ didn't look him off for his own shot 3 seperate times, this action from CJ allowed the Heat not to respect Murphy when he had the ball 2nd Q. Zion goes down to an ankle sprain & what happens ? Murphy went quiet for the remainder of the game IMO a similar effect running him off the bench with no gravity.

I can confidently state it's not a coincidence that Murphy's current stretch of hot shooting is based off of Zion's gravity something he would not get off the bench. A move that is IMO a benefitial match. This not factoring BI's primary ball handling, playmaking & gravity. I can't argue it fact but I think when BI returns as the primary ball handler you'll see a better fit for Murphy than Alvarado all things considered.

[Whole Truth]

Lumbering ?

Watch on YouTube

;t=1s

For today's NBA standards, ya Id consider him more lumbering than mobile. Dont get me wrong, I think he's a fine player, just like I think Steven Adams and Jonas are fine players. Im just personally over poor roster construction with this team. Griffin goes too much with the NBA 2k style of roster building over actual real life fit.

This is Zion's 4th year and he has yet to get a 5 that can space the floor.
I had issues with the Daniels pick and I still do today. Not saying Daniels was a reach at 8, but he's a horrible fit for this team. This team needs floor spacers and guys who are quick decision makers with the ball. Daniels bring size to the perimeter and defensive potential, but he is years away from being a shooter and he loves to pound the rock. Again dont get me wrong, he's good at it and I dont think value wise he was a reach, just dont see him getting minutes this year and dont see him being a long term fit with BI/Zion.
The CJ trade I really didnt mind because it was a push to get some playoff experience last year and I think that was very valuable. But to then give him an extension and it seems like no one in the organization is even thinking of the idea of him being a 6th man, not a fan of that. Plus the addition of Nance in that trade was great, fantastic energy glue big off the bench.

I had no issue with the picks last year (will admit especially Herb, was far more NBA ready than I thought). They should just replicate that draft over and over again. Defense and shooting, defense and shooting. Dont need ball dominate PGs, dont need bigs that dont stretch the floor or arent elite rim protectors. Defense and shooting, defense and shooting. I really wished they wouldve traded up a couple spots to get Mathurin, or traded down to get AJ Griffin. Both dudes have looked the part so far in preseason. Mathurin is lighting it up from all over the court, while AJ looks healthy and more mobile than he ever looked at Duke and ya the dude is looking like a longer Desmond Bane. (I know you and I had very similar views pre draft).

But ya long story short, I want Griffin to go after guys who are ideal fits to go alongside BI/Zion. Whether its a backup big like a Jalen Smith, or spending more assets to get a Myles Turner. Get bigs that can shoot, are at minimum are elite defensive players.

Poeltl is not ideal offensively but he's one of if not, best defender 6ft & in. He can reboumd, guard the perimeter, pnr & block shots, something this team could use. Availabilty, cost of azquisition & young age makes him my realistic target. I'd be weary of Turner coming off injury considering this teams current injury concerns. He's also more costly both in acquisiton & against the cap. With the picks NO's have, I'd go after Poeltl who's a proven defender & try to draft my defensive spacing centre of the future (Wemba, thanks LA ) on rookie scale. Could be as early as next draft thanks to the current state of the Lakers pick. Which would make Poeltl the cheap bridge from Jonas to the development of the drafted replacement.

I did have Mathurin over both AJ & Daniels but not mad over the Daniels selection. He has an elite skill, worse case.

Chemistry is not logical. What can make sense doesn't always make sense & what doesn't, sometimes can. It requires a trial & error. Brings me back full circle to your point about Adams not fitting. Just because Adams didn't work doesn't mean Poeltl' won't. U can also see the difference in impact from Adams to JV despite both being more similar than Poeltl. Chemistry is not an exact science.

This is why luck is a considerable component of success. If the drafting department knew what Herb was, they would have drafted him at 17, not the 2nd round & risk losing him to 30 something selections.

[Whole Truth]

I can never be a fan of Youngs game. This Chia pet had nothing going so he resorts to flopping all over the court to get bailed out & they did. Some cheap ass FT's rewarded when Pels were looking to run away with this game 1st Q. 8 FT's in a row for Atlanta when they went down double digits early.

Weak sauce.

Other than that, it looked like NO's got on the same page concerning Murphy. Though Zion was out, he looked good again playing with the starting unit & off BI.

Though he was cold, CJ being utilized off the bench makes me believe he will be the first sub to run with the bench unit..

Alvarado struggled though with CJ handling the ball more than Graham. Bench was ice cold to start the 2nd Q. Killed the momentum of the 40pt 1st Q.

[Whole Truth]

Now to the good news. I tuned into the Lakers/Kings match & Lebron was showing his age with Kings up 30. It;'s the end of the 3rd Q & Lakers have only put up 60pts.

On a odd man fast break, Lebron legs appeared to buckle.. Next sequence he grabed a board & tried to throw an outlet pass just past half court & there was no energy behind the toss. Fell well short of it's intended target.

If Davis doesn't reamain healthy Lakers are in some serious trouble. Start of the 4th Kings are up 95 - 65, that's rougn.

[Whole Truth]

Imagine this team contending & at the same time being in postion to potentially land Wemba.

Even though LA won a ring, that Davis trade could go down the worse in history.... for LA.

[Duke4life831]

CJ's defense seriously needs to be talked about (not just by you and I haha). CJ was the worst defender on the court tonight and that court included Trae Young...

Its alarming how bad he is on that end. Whether its him losing his man or his man just blowing right by him, he is flat out atrocious on that end. Hes going to be a bottom 5 defender in the entire league this year.

When it comes to who I think should start instead of him, I still favor Jose because of his ability to defend the PnR (not just when his man is involved, but his ability to rotate and help as well). But if its Murphy Im cool with that as well.

Also until Zion tightens up his handle, BI is the best overall player on this team. He is the best natural passer, he probably has the best handles on the team, he became a solid-good defender last year and actually was damn good on that end tonight, plus he is elite at creating his own shot as well. Dont get me wrong Zion no doubt has the higher ceiling, but BI is the better overall player right now. And if Willie does make a change and puts in Murphy in the starting lineup, Im all for BI having heavy heavy on ball responsibilities. Doesnt mean he will put up more shots than Zion, but Im all for the offense running through BI every possession.

[Duke4life831]

I can never be a fan of Youngs game. This Chia pet had nothing going so he resorts to flopping all over the court to get bailed out & they did. Some cheap ass FT's rewarded when Pels were looking to run away with this game 1st Q. 8 FT's in a row for Atlanta when they went down double digits early.

Weak sauce.

Other than that, it looked like NO's got on the same page concerning Murphy. Though Zion was out, he looked good again playing with the starting unit & off BI.

Though he was cold, CJ being utilized off the bench makes me believe he will be the first sub to run with the bench unit..

Alvarado struggled though with CJ handling the ball more than Graham. Bench was ice cold to start the 2nd Q. Killed the momentum of the 40pt 1st Q.

I agree except for the Alvarado part. 1-2 shooting, 5 assists (no turnovers) and really good defense in just 14 minutes. This is what I like about Alvarado, he doesnt need to shoot to make an impact. The thing I really do like is the 5 assists in just 14 minutes and he barely handled the ball tonight. He is just a dude that just does whatever is asked from him. Out there without any other creators, alright he will dribble around and run some PnR and look for his own shots. Out there with other guys that are better shot creators than him, he will make super quick and smart decisions with the ball and allow those guys to do their thing.

[Whole Truth]

I can never be a fan of Youngs game. This Chia pet had nothing going so he resorts to flopping all over the court to get bailed out & they did. Some cheap ass FT's rewarded when Pels were looking to run away with this game 1st Q. 8 FT's in a row for Atlanta when they went down double digits early.

Weak sauce.

Other than that, it looked like NO's got on the same page concerning Murphy. Though Zion was out, he looked good again playing with the starting unit & off BI.

Though he was cold, CJ being utilized off the bench makes me believe he will be the first sub to run with the bench unit..

Alvarado struggled though with CJ handling the ball more than Graham. Bench was ice cold to start the 2nd Q. Killed the momentum of the 40pt 1st Q.

I agree except for the Alvarado part. 1-2 shooting, 5 assists (no turnovers) and really good defense in just 14 minutes. This is what I like about Alvarado, he doesnt need to shoot to make an impact. The thing I really do like is the 5 assists in just 14 minutes and he barely handled the ball tonight. He is just a dude that just does whatever is asked from him. Out there without any other creators, alright he will dribble around and run some PnR and look for his own shots. Out there with other guys that are better shot creators than him, he will make super quick and smart decisions with the ball and allow those guys to do their thing.

I don't think I came across right... I don't mean his game itself. Your post illustrates what I was attempting to say. Playing off ball to CJ, he had only 2 attempts & 3 assists in 14mins as Hawks went on a double digit run to start the 2nd Q on lower usage & production than normal. Playing with CJ on ball watered down his impact leading a very effective 2nd unit that we've seen all preseason. Which is why I mentioned him playing with Graham off ball as apposed to CJ on ball.I hope I'm not wrong about CJ upgrading Graham as the 6th man. Looks like that move could reduce what we been seeing out of Alvarado & the bench this preseason. I would like to be proven wrong because if not, that would mean there's no real effective place for CJ & his brand new extension.

Unfortunately, it really is simple math to know that 4 varying non defenders will struggle if someone is hijacking the offense & efficiency to a defensive detriment.. All 4 scorers values get reduced to liabilies with only Herb defending. CJ's lack of ball pressure as you point out being a red carpet to a C that struggles in space & recovery. What bothers me is Jonas got & will get all the flack for it because he's the last line of defense where he can't erase mistakes. I mean vs Suns, Mavs had no post presence at all but very good ball pressure, made a differerence with Ayton's impact with CP3 not getting to where he wants... To many Ayton vs JV is why NO's fell short. Not CJ who shot 30% on volume, in combination with his lred carpet defense. I've seen that movie before & every team Jonas has gone to, a lottery Raptors team. a 22 win Memphis team & non PO New Orleans team has changed their trajectory to 50 wins but he's always somehow THE problem. It's mind numbing.

[Whole Truth]

CJ's defense seriously needs to be talked about (not just by you and I haha). CJ was the worst defender on the court tonight and that court included Trae Young...

Its alarming how bad he is on that end. Whether its him losing his man or his man just blowing right by him, he is flat out atrocious on that end. Hes going to be a bottom 5 defender in the entire league this year.

When it comes to who I think should start instead of him, I still favor Jose because of his ability to defend the PnR (not just when his man is involved, but his ability to rotate and help as well). But if its Murphy Im cool with that as well.

Also until Zion tightens up his handle, BI is the best overall player on this team. He is the best natural passer, he probably has the best handles on the team, he became a solid-good defender last year and actually was damn good on that end tonight, plus he is elite at creating his own shot as well. Dont get me wrong Zion no doubt has the higher ceiling, but BI is the better overall player right now. And if Willie does make a change and puts in Murphy in the starting lineup, Im all for BI having heavy heavy on ball responsibilities. Doesnt mean he will put up more shots than Zion, but Im all for the offense running through BI every possession.

This is what I was worried about at the point of trade, We all knew of CJ's defensive issues joining 3 other average to sub defenders. Yet, his reputation, not fit, has made him the defacto 3rd option, when in reality it's probably best that he is not. An error IMO combined with an early extension. The good news being, CJ seems willing to do what is best for the team. Hopefully he accepts that 6th man Manu role at some point.

The Miami game. Hermangomez, Zion & CJ's defense allowed Heat nearly 80% efficiency for most of the game on relative ease, with CJ going 1-7 from the field. Not going to win many games with that recipe. You would think NO's would also want to compliment Zion defensively ... Spacing will only do so much if the other team is getting easy looks.

[Duke4life831]

I can never be a fan of Youngs game. This Chia pet had nothing going so he resorts to flopping all over the court to get bailed out & they did. Some cheap ass FT's rewarded when Pels were looking to run away with this game 1st Q. 8 FT's in a row for Atlanta when they went down double digits early.

Weak sauce.

Other than that, it looked like NO's got on the same page concerning Murphy. Though Zion was out, he looked good again playing with the starting unit & off BI.

Though he was cold, CJ being utilized off the bench makes me believe he will be the first sub to run with the bench unit..

Alvarado struggled though with CJ handling the ball more than Graham. Bench was ice cold to start the 2nd Q. Killed the momentum of the 40pt 1st Q.

I agree except for the Alvarado part. 1-2 shooting, 5 assists (no turnovers) and really good defense in just 14 minutes. This is what I like about Alvarado, he doesnt need to shoot to make an impact. The thing I really do like is the 5 assists in just 14 minutes and he barely handled the ball tonight. He is just a dude that just does whatever is asked from him. Out there without any other creators, alright he will dribble around and run some PnR and look for his own shots. Out there with other guys that are better shot creators than him, he will make super quick and smart decisions with the ball and allow those guys to do their thing.

I don't think I came across right... I don't mean his game itself. Your post illustrates what I was attempting to say. Playing off ball to CJ, he had only 2 attempts & 3 assists in 14mins as Hawks went on a double digit run to start the 2nd Q on lower usage & production than normal. Playing with CJ on ball watered down his impact leading a very effective 2nd unit that we've seen all preseason. Which is why I mentioned him playing with Graham off ball as apposed to CJ on ball.I hope I'm not wrong about CJ upgrading Graham as the 6th man. Looks like that move could reduce what we been seeing out of Alvarado & the bench this preseason. I would like to be proven wrong because if not, that would mean there's no real effective place for CJ & his brand new extension.

Unfortunately, it really is simple math to know that 4 varying non defenders will struggle if someone is hijacking the offense & efficiency to a defensive detriment.. All 4 scorers values get reduced to liabilies with only Herb defending. CJ's lack of ball pressure as you point out being a red carpet to a C that struggles in space & recovery. What bothers me is Jonas got & will get all the flack for it because he's the last line of defense where he can't erase mistakes. I mean vs Suns, Mavs had no post presence at all but very good ball pressure, made a differerence with Ayton's impact with CP3 not getting to where he wants... To many Ayton vs JV is why NO's fell short. Not CJ who shot 30% on volume, in combination with his lred carpet defense. I've seen that movie before & every team Jonas has gone to, a lottery Raptors team. a 22 win Memphis team & non PO New Orleans team has changed their trajectory to 5 wins but he's always somehow THE problem. It's mind numbing.

My thing with Jose is I don’t think his scoring at this point in his career is all that valuable. Especially scoring creating for himself. Ya he’s looked good in the preseason, but that’s just preseason. I think Jose is at peak value when his focus is all on defense, then on offense moving the ball quickly and scoring when he’s presented with a very easy bucket. Basically Jose from the playoffs last year.

And again I don’t think we’re going to see many valuable minutes this year when it’s just the bench out there. So worrying about how an all bench unit will work shouldn’t be too big of a thought. When all 3 are healthy (Bi/Zion/CJ) I’m sure Willie will do his best to stagger them so at least 2 of them are out there at all times and when there isn’t, it will be at least one of them and Jonas.

To the second part, I agree 100%. I don’t think Jonas is a great defender, but he’s not a bad one either (he’s pretty neutral/average). But he’s not good enough or mobile enough to clean up the issues that CJ creates on that end. Then throw in Zion and he hasn’t shown to be even an average defender yet and he’s looked really bad on that end so far this preseason. There is going to be plenty of open lanes at the bucket and ya because Jonas is the last man people will see, he will get lots of the blame. Even though he’s really not a problem.

We know Herb is elite. The eye test showed BI took big steps defensively last year and most stats back that up, DRAPM had BI ranked in the 400s his first 2 years in NO, they had him at 72nd last year. BI showed to be a good defender last year. But ya even with Herb being elite and BI taking big steps, the opposing teams are just going to attack CJ involving either Zion or Jonas as well. By the way CJ’s DRAPM last year was 578th… i don’t see that improving this year either.

Having a pesky PG defender that can blow up screens and make good rotations defensively could take this lineup from being one with a ton of holes, to one that on paper should be a pretty good defense and should be able to hide Zion.

[Whole Truth]

My thing with Jose is I don’t think his scoring at this point in his career is all that valuable. Especially scoring creating for himself. Ya he’s looked good in the preseason, but that’s just preseason. I think Jose is at peak value when his focus is all on defense, then on offense moving the ball quickly and scoring when he’s presented with a very easy bucket. Basically Jose from the playoffs last year.

And again I don’t think we’re going to see many valuable minutes this year when it’s just the bench out there. So worrying about how an all bench unit will work shouldn’t be too big of a thought. When all 3 are healthy (Bi/Zion/CJ) I’m sure Willie will do his best to stagger them so at least 2 of them are out there at all times and when there isn’t, it will be at least one of them and Jonas.

To the second part, I agree 100%. I don’t think Jonas is a great defender, but he’s not a bad one either (he’s pretty neutral/average). But he’s not good enough or mobile enough to clean up the issues that CJ creates on that end. Then throw in Zion and he hasn’t shown to be even an average defender yet and he’s looked really bad on that end so far this preseason. There is going to be plenty of open lanes at the bucket and ya because Jonas is the last man people will see, he will get lots of the blame. Even though he’s really not a problem.

We know Herb is elite. The eye test showed BI took big steps defensively last year and most stats back that up, DRAPM had BI ranked in the 400s his first 2 years in NO, they had him at 72nd last year. BI showed to be a good defender last year. But ya even with Herb being elite and BI taking big steps, the opposing teams are just going to attack CJ involving either Zion or Jonas as well. By the way CJ’s DRAPM last year was 578th… i don’t see that improving this year either.

Having a pesky PG defender that can blow up screens and make good rotations defensively could take this lineup from being one with a ton of holes, to one that on paper should be a pretty good defense and should be able to hide Zion.

Reason, Daniels was my first thought till I saw him offensively. That's when I put consideration into Murphy's defensive length & spacing. I didn't want to comprimise the spacing. If only he can get to a respectable 3pt threat .. he's the obvious defensive plug even as a rookie IMO. Not to take anything away from Alvarado but Daniels size, length & ability to recover would be on a different level in terms of pressuring the ball & helping to erase defensive mistakes. You suddenly have 2 of the better perimeter defenders in Herb & Daniels that can erase defensive mistakes, an average to slightly above average BI with Jv walling off the paint & rebounding ito close possession. Leaving Zion to improve his defensive impact. IMO, I think Zion carrying the primary ball handling role in traffic this preseason played into some of those defensive lapses. Fatigue. It's a different fatigue when you're game is predicated on physicality.

Fact, Jonas starting with the Raptors & Memphis was apart of 2, top 5 defenses despite all his defensive flaws.

Replacing CJ's defense with a 3 & D threat is the first move to make to get this defense where it needs to be, Then consideration could be made from that point to upgrade Jonas asell, if necessary based on this teams personell.

[Duke4life831]

My thing with Jose is I don’t think his scoring at this point in his career is all that valuable. Especially scoring creating for himself. Ya he’s looked good in the preseason, but that’s just preseason. I think Jose is at peak value when his focus is all on defense, then on offense moving the ball quickly and scoring when he’s presented with a very easy bucket. Basically Jose from the playoffs last year.

And again I don’t think we’re going to see many valuable minutes this year when it’s just the bench out there. So worrying about how an all bench unit will work shouldn’t be too big of a thought. When all 3 are healthy (Bi/Zion/CJ) I’m sure Willie will do his best to stagger them so at least 2 of them are out there at all times and when there isn’t, it will be at least one of them and Jonas.

To the second part, I agree 100%. I don’t think Jonas is a great defender, but he’s not a bad one either (he’s pretty neutral/average). But he’s not good enough or mobile enough to clean up the issues that CJ creates on that end. Then throw in Zion and he hasn’t shown to be even an average defender yet and he’s looked really bad on that end so far this preseason. There is going to be plenty of open lanes at the bucket and ya because Jonas is the last man people will see, he will get lots of the blame. Even though he’s really not a problem.

We know Herb is elite. The eye test showed BI took big steps defensively last year and most stats back that up, DRAPM had BI ranked in the 400s his first 2 years in NO, they had him at 72nd last year. BI showed to be a good defender last year. But ya even with Herb being elite and BI taking big steps, the opposing teams are just going to attack CJ involving either Zion or Jonas as well. By the way CJ’s DRAPM last year was 578th… i don’t see that improving this year either.

Having a pesky PG defender that can blow up screens and make good rotations defensively could take this lineup from being one with a ton of holes, to one that on paper should be a pretty good defense and should be able to hide Zion.

Reason, Daniels was my first thought till I saw him offensively. That's when I put consideration into Murphy's defensive length & spacing. I didn't want to comprimise the spacing. If only he can get to a respectable 3pt threat .. he's the obvious defensive plug even as a rookie IMO. Not to take anything away from Alvarado but Daniels size, length & ability to recover would be on a different level in terms of pressuring the ball & helping to erase defensive mistakes. You suddenly have 2 of the better perimeter defenders in Herb & Daniels that can erase defensive mistakes, an average to slightly above average BI with Jv walling off the paint & rebounding ito close possession. Leaving Zion to improve his defensive impact. IMO, I think Zion carrying the primary ball handling role in traffic this preseason played into some of those defensive lapses.

Fact, Jonas starting with the Raptors & Memphis was apart of 2, top 5 defenses despite all his defensive flaws.

Replacing CJ's defense with a 3 & D threat is the first move to make to get this defense where it needs to be, Then consideration could be made from that point to upgrade Jonas asell, if necessary based on this teams personell.

Ya Daniels is way too far behind offensively plus I’m not willing to write him down as an elite perimeter defender yet. Ya he no doubt has the potential and shown flashes, but he’s also gotten lost plenty as well. He’s looked like a 19 year old a good amount when it comes to off ball defense and rotations.

And ya the size would be great of Murphy or Daniels, but it’s not like the team is small with a normal sized PG out there. Plus again if it’s Murphy, you’re now asking Herb or BI to chase around quick PGs. Herb is a great defender, but he excels far more at guarding wings and bigger guards. I forgot who did the article last year, but they broke down Herb’s defense numbers. While he’s a really good on ball defender, the thing that makes him truly elite is his off ball defense. He might already be a top 3 off ball defender in the league. That is something that I think should continue to be maximized.

But ya even if you and I have some snack differing opinions on that part, it’s clear we definitely see eye to eye with the CJ problem. Even if he was a great fit offensively (I still think that’s going to be an issue), the thing that I hope is setting the alarm bells off now or very soon for the coaching staff is the issues CJ brings on the defensive end.

[Whole Truth]

My thing with Jose is I don’t think his scoring at this point in his career is all that valuable. Especially scoring creating for himself. Ya he’s looked good in the preseason, but that’s just preseason. I think Jose is at peak value when his focus is all on defense, then on offense moving the ball quickly and scoring when he’s presented with a very easy bucket. Basically Jose from the playoffs last year.

And again I don’t think we’re going to see many valuable minutes this year when it’s just the bench out there. So worrying about how an all bench unit will work shouldn’t be too big of a thought. When all 3 are healthy (Bi/Zion/CJ) I’m sure Willie will do his best to stagger them so at least 2 of them are out there at all times and when there isn’t, it will be at least one of them and Jonas.

To the second part, I agree 100%. I don’t think Jonas is a great defender, but he’s not a bad one either (he’s pretty neutral/average). But he’s not good enough or mobile enough to clean up the issues that CJ creates on that end. Then throw in Zion and he hasn’t shown to be even an average defender yet and he’s looked really bad on that end so far this preseason. There is going to be plenty of open lanes at the bucket and ya because Jonas is the last man people will see, he will get lots of the blame. Even though he’s really not a problem.

We know Herb is elite. The eye test showed BI took big steps defensively last year and most stats back that up, DRAPM had BI ranked in the 400s his first 2 years in NO, they had him at 72nd last year. BI showed to be a good defender last year. But ya even with Herb being elite and BI taking big steps, the opposing teams are just going to attack CJ involving either Zion or Jonas as well. By the way CJ’s DRAPM last year was 578th… i don’t see that improving this year either.

Having a pesky PG defender that can blow up screens and make good rotations defensively could take this lineup from being one with a ton of holes, to one that on paper should be a pretty good defense and should be able to hide Zion.

Reason, Daniels was my first thought till I saw him offensively. That's when I put consideration into Murphy's defensive length & spacing. I didn't want to comprimise the spacing. If only he can get to a respectable 3pt threat .. he's the obvious defensive plug even as a rookie IMO. Not to take anything away from Alvarado but Daniels size, length & ability to recover would be on a different level in terms of pressuring the ball & helping to erase defensive mistakes. You suddenly have 2 of the better perimeter defenders in Herb & Daniels that can erase defensive mistakes, an average to slightly above average BI with Jv walling off the paint & rebounding ito close possession. Leaving Zion to improve his defensive impact. IMO, I think Zion carrying the primary ball handling role in traffic this preseason played into some of those defensive lapses.

Fact, Jonas starting with the Raptors & Memphis was apart of 2, top 5 defenses despite all his defensive flaws.

Replacing CJ's defense with a 3 & D threat is the first move to make to get this defense where it needs to be, Then consideration could be made from that point to upgrade Jonas asell, if necessary based on this teams personell.

Ya Daniels is way too far behind offensively plus I’m not willing to write him down as an elite perimeter defender yet. Ya he no doubt has the potential and shown flashes, but he’s also gotten lost plenty as well. He’s looked like a 19 year old a good amount when it comes to off ball defense and rotations.

And ya the size would be great of Murphy or Daniels, but it’s not like the team is small with a normal sized PG out there. Plus again if it’s Murphy, you’re now asking Herb or BI to chase around quick PGs. Herb is a great defender, but he excels far more at guarding wings and bigger guards. I forgot who did the article last year, but they broke down Herb’s defense numbers. While he’s a really good on ball defender, the thing that makes him truly elite is his off ball defense. He might already be a top 3 off ball defender in the league. That is something that I think should continue to be maximized.

But ya even if you and I have some snack differing opinions on that part, it’s clear we definitely see eye to eye with the CJ problem. Even if he was a great fit offensively (I still think that’s going to be an issue), the thing that I hope is setting the alarm bells off now or very soon for the coaching staff is the issues CJ brings on the defensive end.

As I said to NO-KG-AI, while Dyson like Murphy has a ways to go defensively, they're still miles ahead of CJ on that end.

Yeah, Ideally, I don't want Herb chasing PG's

Daniels combination of size, speed, length & athleticism gives the defense a dimension Alvarado can't. Besides recovery ability, he can potentially switch 1-4, which wouldn't just cover for CJ but Zion too. Saw him do a nice job on Collins last night.

Anyway we haggling opinions & Green has the ability to utilize them all. Nice place to be with this young team.

[Whole Truth]

58 sec mark is what I m talking about with CJ's scoring mentality./tunnel vision. He had Herb wide open top of the arc & took his drive into 3 defenders for a miss. He did the same thing to Murphy in the Heat game 3x first Q, with Murphy shooting 4/5 from 3.

You're not going to get the most out of Zion & BI if the (not selfishenss) but "recognition" is not there. Not a defender within 18' of Herb on that miss.

Watch on YouTube

[Whole Truth]

Wenddays game vs Nets. -

Irving will have a field day with CJ''s defense. So I aaume Herb will get the call to guard Irving & if so, who's guarding Durant, BI? That would require to much energy him chasing Durant around on defense.

IMO, with Nets not having a real post threat. I'd play Zion at C to get Muphy's length, spacing into the rottion to also allow Danels to play over CJ to help contain Irving. Spacing wise the trade off being Jonas post offense for Daniels defense & playmaking. Daniels or Herb & Murphy on Durant with BI hiding, helping & cheating off of Simmons, resting so he can play more efficiently, offensively than chasing Durant around. With the lack of paint protection the Nets have, Zion's gravity & passing will generate a lot of open looks for Murphy. Daniels or Herb's length meanwhile pressuring Irving.to run the Nets old legs off the court in transition, with a very athletic group considering Zion at the 5 & a 6'8" daniels at the 1.

Let Jonas & CJ work their bench/depth because offensively Nets are a bad match for the current starting 5.

[Duke4life831]

Didnt hate the rotations tonight. It was pretty clear that there were two duos for the night. Seemed like Zion/CJ were on the court for the majority of the time together, while BI/Jonas were on the court a lot together. Really cant complain at all with the results and I totally get the thought process here. Allow BI and Jonas to run with the 2nd unit and really allow BI to do his thing. But I do feel like CJ/Zion duo does open up a lot of holes defensively. It really helped out that Simmons is a complete non factor on that end and no one outside of KD showed up.

So we will see if that duo holds up long term defensively. But ya hard to complain with anything tonight. BI carrying on what he showed in the playoffs. Also stepping up his defense as well. Probably the 2nd best defensive player tonight after Herb.

[Whole Truth]

Didnt hate the rotations tonight. It was pretty clear that there were two duos for the night. Seemed like Zion/CJ were on the court for the majority of the time together, while BI/Jonas were on the court a lot together. Really cant complain at all with the results and I totally get the thought process here. Allow BI and Jonas to run with the 2nd unit and really allow BI to do his thing. But I do feel like CJ/Zion duo does open up a lot of holes defensively. It really helped out that Simmons is a complete non factor on that end and no one outside of KD showed up.

So we will see if that duo holds up long term defensively. But ya hard to complain with anything tonight. BI carrying on what he showed in the playoffs. Also stepping up his defense as well. Probably the 2nd best defensive player tonight after Herb.

Agree, If it wasn't for the 3rd Q. The defense was surprisingly good. I thought Kyrie was going to go off..

Qucik takes on the game

- Herb with 7 FGA's was a team best + 34
- Naji was a team worse -7 (Part reason for the 3rd Q Nets run)
- Jonas was 5pts off 4 starters putting up 20+ pts each
- Nets had no rest period with Pels staggered rotations
- Durant & Kyrie were held to a combined 17 of 40 shooting
- Murphy led the bench with 18 pts, 4-6 3pt shooting with some deep makes
- Pels outrebounded Nets by 42 boards, +12 offensive
- All starters played in the 30min range.

I'm annoyed that posters are discrediting the Nets, instead of praising the Pels. As u mentioned one of Zion or BI was on court for the entire game, minus garbage time.

[Duke4life831]

Didnt hate the rotations tonight. It was pretty clear that there were two duos for the night. Seemed like Zion/CJ were on the court for the majority of the time together, while BI/Jonas were on the court a lot together. Really cant complain at all with the results and I totally get the thought process here. Allow BI and Jonas to run with the 2nd unit and really allow BI to do his thing. But I do feel like CJ/Zion duo does open up a lot of holes defensively. It really helped out that Simmons is a complete non factor on that end and no one outside of KD showed up.

So we will see if that duo holds up long term defensively. But ya hard to complain with anything tonight. BI carrying on what he showed in the playoffs. Also stepping up his defense as well. Probably the 2nd best defensive player tonight after Herb.

Agree, If it wasn't for the 3rd Q. The defense was surprisingly good. I thought Kyrie was going to go off..

Qucik takes on the game

- Herb with 7 FGA's was a team best + 34
- Naji was a team worse -7 (Part reason for the 3rd Q Nets run)
- Jonas was 5pts off 4 starters putting up 20+ pts each
- Nets had no rest period with Pels staggered rotations
- Durant & Kyrie were held to a combined 17 of 40 shooting
- Murphy led the bench with 18 pts, 4-6 3pt shooting with some deep makes
- Pels outrebounded Nets by 42 boards, +12 offensive
- All starters played in the 30min range.

I'm annoyed that posters are discrediting the Nets, instead of praising the Pels. As u mentioned one of Zion or BI was on court for the entire game, minus garbage time.

Ya Herb is literally the perfect fit for that starting lineup. Perfect 5th scoring option in a starting lineup because he doesnt need to shoot to be unbelievably impactful.

Having 2 of BI/Zion/CJ/Jonas on the court at once for all game long is just too much for defenses. Ya there will be off nights, but hard not seeing this being a top 3-5 offense. Again curious to how the heavy CJ/Zion minutes will play out when Zion actually has to defend someone and not just gets to sag off of Simmons all night long.

And Im all for giving all of Naji's and Graham's minutes to Daniels. Those two were really the only negatives on the night, everyone else you saw their impact.

[Whole Truth]

Green did a great job exposing the Nets weaknesses while maximizing his.

Zion defense was hid on Simmons, exposed by O'Neal. He had 4 steal cheating off Simmons to help take the lane away from Irving who put up 15pt on 19 shots. Irving was my concern & they did a great job of containing him. People will criticize the Nets but Gteen & the personel deeserve alot of credit instead. Down to the staggered rotations & maintaining pressure on one of the leagues best players, Durant.

Couldn't ask more defensively than holding both Irving & Durant to 17-40 shooting.

As good as that opener was, it wasn't perfect. I'm trying to understand how such a good mid range shooter bricks open FT's. During the Nets run BI went 1-4 from the line, how?. In a closer game that would have been critical.. He & CJ need to rectify this issue. Maybe find something that will help BI concentrate ? slow breathing, kiss to the basket lol IDK..

Don't know how Marcus Smart is considered a better individual man defender than Herb. His goto move is to flop. Herb out there blocking a KD jump shot 3 for a team best +34 playing with a bunch of players not known for their defense while Boston is good top to bottom defensively. It makes no sense, Herb was better individually in almost every defensive measure.

In focusing on the players improving & how they would fit. It looks like Green has taken a step himself. Great strategy & adjustments from coach. Couldn't ask for a better first Q. Nets got bailed out by officiating. Zion & Jonas dominating the paint... NO's had 4 FT's total at the half, Best believe Refs did more to hold NO's in check then the Nets. At no point of this match should they have reached to within 11pts of this NO's performance. I hate NBA officiating & star calls... Durant meanwhile, was getting to the line without being fouled.