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eviL wrote:2010 wrote:Seriously, for a guy who supposedly can't shoot, is a volume scorer, has bad shot-selection and is an overall nut, Brooks shot 48% from the field and 55% on 2pters. Gee whiz, just imagine if he COULD shoot and had good shot selection!
How are Marshon's detractors still using those numbers against him?
2010 wrote:In terms of tools, talent and overall upside...how do those of you who are in the know rate Montiejunas in comparison to Gallinari?
Not saying their game is the same at all, I'm just wondering why Montiejunas is projected to be picked so late in a weak draft class when Gallinari was picked so high in such a strong draft class. Montie is taller than Gallo, can shoot it just as well, seems to be a better passer and actually looks more athletic. He also has a more refined post game and is a lefty. What gives?
Manhattan Project wrote:I think part of the reason is that Motie has been talked about for five years now and extremely hyped for a long time now. I do believe that Motie is getting knocked for some reasons that are unfair.
Gallo does have more passion for the game, a knock on Motie. Motie at times can look like Tim Thomas in terms of potential and output.
Motie is a big man and the knocks on him make him look worse than it really is. [Rebounding and interior defense]
Gallo was a contributor from day one, Motie might need some time.
Motie has had his ups and downs, Gallo was a rising player.
[Family connection?]
I just think it's because we have known Motie so long and there is only a few teams that would really want to roll the dice on him where as Gallo you were getting a slasher, willing defender and a great teammate.
2010 wrote:In terms of tools, talent and overall upside...how do those of you who are in the know rate Montiejunas in comparison to Gallinari?
Not saying their game is the same at all, I'm just wondering why Montiejunas is projected to be picked so late in a weak draft class when Gallinari was picked so high in such a strong draft class. Montie is taller than Gallo, can shoot it just as well, seems to be a better passer and actually looks more athletic. He also has a more refined post game and is a lefty. What gives?
TrueWarrior wrote:2010 wrote:In terms of tools, talent and overall upside...how do those of you who are in the know rate Montiejunas in comparison to Gallinari?
Not saying their game is the same at all, I'm just wondering why Montiejunas is projected to be picked so late in a weak draft class when Gallinari was picked so high in such a strong draft class. Montie is taller than Gallo, can shoot it just as well, seems to be a better passer and actually looks more athletic. He also has a more refined post game and is a lefty. What gives?
Intangibles. Gallo was always known as a leader with great fire and work ethic. He was tough. Gallo isnt like most Euros. Its why us fans quickly had love for him.
Motie's intangibles and all that stuff is his biggest knock right now. Hes not lacking in skill at all, but does he want it? This is where the Bargnani stuff comes in with him. Also even with Motie gaining 10-15 pounds this year, he is still pretty skinny and has a slight frame. Its going to be hard on him to defend bigs. Gallo has shown he can defend star calibur wing players in the NBA and always had the frame to add a lot more weight. Can Motie guard anybody with his lack of strength/effort?
But yea MP hit in on the head too. The dude has been around forever it seems. Im confused myself why hes dropping so much in such a non star studded draft. Hes one of the guys who has definite star potential. Dare I say Pau/Dirk like. Unless he has a serious buyout problem then I dont get why hed fall out of the lottery. Even with his defensive/strength/intangible flaws his offensive package is off the charts.
Makes no sense why guys like Kawhi Leonard, Alec Burks, Brooks, Hamilton, Klay, The Morris twins, Jimmer, Singleton, and Kemba are mocked higher than Motie.
Chanel Bomber wrote:This board really is full of bad people.
clockwork wrote:the bold part is definitely not true.
what every scout raves about him is the ability to contribute from day 1, due to his excellent offensive talent.
i live in colorado and am lithuanian so i've seen gallo and motie plenty. i'm telling you that it's all a smokescreen about what people say is motiejunas' work ethic. he's the teammate that's always high-fiving for any insignificant thing just to keep the confidence up. he also has a high basketball iq meaning that he might slack on some plays because he realizes he can't do anything about it - i mean that mentality is both good and bad. he doesn't shy away from contact like some people complain but regrettably does suck at rebounding. defending isn't quite horrific as some imply, he's actually really decent and mobile despite people forgetting that he's a 7 footer.
also he's very communicative which is due to his arrogance and bball iq, i mean playing by melo and amare would mellow him out, but still give him enough confidence to do his thing...
just my two cents..
another bargnani-motiejunas comparison and i'll seppuku myself.
Mac1Money wrote:I cant comment on Motie really, because I havent seen him play all that much, but 2 years ago, when he was 18, he was projected as a high lottery pick, then he took his name out
Same thing last year, except he was projected a late-lottery pick
Now, hes kinda in the post-lottery range, so just based on that his stock continues to drop, why? I dont know..but it makes me curious, has to be a reason
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Speaking of 'risky' picks, would anyone be mad at an Selby/Tyler draft pairing? Theyre both 19, if not 20, were considered top recruits in theyre HS class, Selby struggled at Kansas with an injury, Tyler struggled overseas with maturity, but they both have a lot of potential if they could just get it together....i guess were past the "developing players" stage, but I wouldnt be opposed of having these two young guys on our squad..
BrOnXKing1 wrote:Article says Klay cant finish or play defense.
2010 wrote:Seriously, for a guy who supposedly can't shoot, is a volume scorer, has bad shot-selection and is an overall nut, Brooks shot 48% from the field and 55% on 2pters. Gee whiz, just imagine if he COULD shoot and had good shot selection!
StutterStep wrote:
I think people are preparing to hate him 'cause Jimmer and Klay might be gone. Plus, I don't see D'Antoni wanting Brooks because he doesn't have that 3pt range.
I do think Brooks will turn out to be the better SG pro out all of them.
I'm also trying to fiugre out the Selby hype.
Manhattan Project wrote:
Well just a few months ago Melo couldn't hit a three either right? Either way I do think that Jimmer and Klay will be gone, I'm tending to believe that it will be Brooks-Motie-Faried-Selby. One of those four will be a Knick at the end of the night I'm really believing.
StutterStep wrote:
Melo was an up/down 3pt shooter because he was taking bad ones. Once he got to this offense, with all the open ones, he drained them.
With work, I could see the same being true for Marshon 'cause it's not like he's awful out there. He just needs work. I'm just not sure if he fits the mold of SG this team needs, which is strictly a spot-up shooter from 3pt land.
Now if D'Antoni is not going to be here and/or get a defensive coach, the Marshon would be a great pickup!
Manhattan Project wrote:Yeah was talking about the consistency behind Melo IE how good of a shooter he actually is.
I mean it's not like you can't improve from 34% from three, especially in a system in which you will have space. The point that you hit regarding spot up is primarily why people have been clamoring for Jimmer or Klay.
I think Brooks is a great guy to pick up one way or another, dude has a nice midrange game and shoots well in transition. Not afraid to take it to the rim and uses his body very good. He would be a starter from day one for us likely.
BrOnXKing1 wrote:http://www.1070thefan.com/mg/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10247078
Anyone see this link?
Seems like Brooks totally dominated Klay in this workout. Article says Klay cant finish or play defense.
Sometimes a player in the draft just has that look. Not just a passing-the-eye-test look, but something bigger. Maybe he just has the perfect combination of size, length, speed, savvy and raw production, like Paul George did last year, despite playing on a less-than-great college team. Other times he has similar movements to an NBA great, teasing team decision-makers with the thought that perhaps he can evolve into his NBA look-alike.
No player in this draft is drawing more late-in-coming raves than Marshon Brooks from Providence, in part because he's physically similar to George. But to get this much buzz it takes more than a Paul George comparison, and Brooks can thank none other than Kobe Bryant for his rapid mock-draft ascension.
Does he really resemble Kobe, the iconic scoring guard? Yes, but not in most of the ways that matter most, and that is the problem.
Multiple men with trained eyes, including Bryant's current trainer, Tim Grover, and Chad Ford have seen "a little bit" of Kobe when they watch Brooks play. I also saw things that connected the two of them: big hands that palm the ball like it's a sponge and long arms that make it tough for a defender to get at the ball when Brooks is in motion or as he nears the rim for a layup. And some of his general movements as a player look strikingly similar to things we've seen from Kobe hundreds of times.
To be fair, Brooks has more in common with Kobe than just similar long limbs and movements. He's a scorer, pure and simple, and he's always in attack mode. Brooks had the ball in his hands more than almost any college player this season but averaged just 2.5 assists. I'm not convinced Brooks sees the game well, unlike Kobe, who chooses to shoot often but knows where to pass at all times.
Brooks does share something with Kobe as an offensive player that is not so good -- he takes bad shots. No player I've studied this season had worse shot selection than Brooks, who took 197 3-pointers, just 22 fewer than the number of free throws he earned. As a comparison, Kobe shot at least twice as many free throws as 3-pointers each season from his second NBA season to his eighth. For his college career, Brooks attempted 475 3s (and made 33 percent) and 402 free throws. Kobe, even after many seasons in which his somewhat worn-out legs forced him to take a lot more 3s, has still never even come close to taking as many 3s as he has free throws made in any season. For his career, he's made over 7,000 free throws and attempted 4,185 3s.
So what does Kobe have that Brooks doesn't that helps us understand why there is such a disparity? It's all about quickness with the ball. Kobe has it in tight spaces with great speed after two steps, and Brooks only has the speed part of the game down. Give him room, and he can get to a pace that some defenders cannot reach, and that allows him to get into the paint. But when crowded, he does not have the quicks to beat a decent defender to the rim. His amazing arm length suggests he'll be able to find ways to get the ball past a defender on drives and up toward the hole, which puts him in the company of someone such as Tyreke Evans, a crafty dribbler who uses his dimensions to make paint shots. But Brooks does not have the build to do so, at least not yet. If he can get much more powerful, his ability to score in the NBA goes way up. There are few men playing basketball today that have the kind of dribbling skill combined with a power forward's strength as Evans has.
Brooks has a strong handle and takes long steps when he drives, which allows him to get past slower defenders as he races to the rim. However, like Evans, he's not any kind of elite-level high jumper, another very obvious difference from Kobe.
Brooks can be a very good defender, wrapping up wings thanks to those arms, but we didn't see that in college. As an example, Evans had 77 steals as a freshman at Memphis. Brooks had just 48 as a senior in roughly the same number of minutes.
Yes, it is amazing to see Brooks play and literally see Kobe here and there. But as it relates to where he gets his points, quickness with the ball, star-level athleticism or playmaking on defense from, there simply is no comparison. Brooks is a hot name now and can certainly get drafted in Round 1, but in a stronger draft he'd be stuck as a second-round prospect who would not be assured of having an NBA career.
