PG: FJU Needs To Be Shut Down

[Sark]

The key for the Celtics is how their pick from Brooklyn turns out this year. If they were land Ingram or Simmons, they'd be in a great position to become a contender. Having a great coach does that for you.

If the coach is so great why don't he just coach a player to superstardom?

Marcus Smart WHERE ARE YOU?

He is. Isaiah Thomas

[K_ick_God]

Regardless of what deals Celtics have made or have tried to make and failed -- they still have legitimate assets to get into the conversations and they still have legitimate picks to get lucky with --- they have a chance.

Yeah well my point is that it probably wouldn't be that hard for Phil to get to the same place if he pivots in time. And getting into conversations doesn't win titles. But yeah, you choose an imperfect path (they all are), try to maximize your chances of success (usually this isn't that hard to identify), and hope you get lucky (you will need to).

[K_ick_God]

I really don't understand how Melo impedes KP in any way. Melo only has 2-3 yrs left (3rd year is a player option). KP will either be a franchise player at that point, with Melo being a great PP type secondary, or Melo will be winding down on the contract anyway and we can pivot then. The exploding cap mitigates a lot of the risk.

Also, people conflate capspace with good players. They are not the same thing, and rarely equal a player of Melo's talent.

And Melo loved NY enough to stay away from his clearest shot at winning, which was Chicago with Thibs. He also loved it enough to resist smaller markets who were better positioned like Houston and Dallas. There is absolutely no reason to go to a smaller market who is nothing more than a treadmill team. He can be on a treadmill team, at worst, in NY.

I think Melo stayed because he enjoys being a Knick *and* we beat Chicago's offer by a lot.

What about LA, Houston, and Dallas?

LA sucks as bad or worse. Houston and Dallas were not such great situations ... plus they're in the Deep South.

[GONYK]

I think Melo stayed because he enjoys being a Knick *and* we beat Chicago's offer by a lot.

What about LA, Houston, and Dallas?

LA sucks as bad or worse. Houston and Dallas were not such great situations ... plus they're in the Deep South.

LA is a much bigger market than anyone else not NY, and Dallas and Houston are closer to a title than Boston is while also being in bigger markets than Boston.

Yet, he turned them down

[Greenie]

They're a team full of throwaways and castaways. There's not one superstar type player on that team that has real trade value. The most valuable thing Boston has is draft picks from Brooklyn. They have nothing even close to the value of Melo or Porzingis.

2 players don't make a TEAM.

Keep talking Greenie because you are correct. Plus most all their assets are young/younger -- franchise is NOT dependent on whether or not Melo's knees are cranky on game day.

Yes and no. They have a better overall roster at this point, but our future is better. The value of their assets are up in the air.

Their roster as of right now at this moment is better.

[j4remi]

Its probably why probably why Jose has decent %'s since his mid range pull up is one of his most efficient shots. I mean we have got a 4 game sample size with gallo as the starter and nothing has stood out to me so far.

Gallo is a good role player. He can be good minutes on a good team. As a facilitator though, I pretty much have seen what I need to see. Offense looks really stagnant with him in there. Thats not his fault he just shouldn't be put in that role. Lead guard upgrade is a clear need.

We definitely need a lead guard upgrade. Only difference between LG and Jose has been slight improvements on dribble penetration imo. But in terms of offense looking stagnant, it looks exactly how it's always looked since Melo got hurt. We've been running our offense through Melo for weeks and since he's been hurt there's more stagnation any time teams let him Isolate since he can't make them pay on a bum knee.

[K_ick_God]

What about LA, Houston, and Dallas?

LA sucks as bad or worse. Houston and Dallas were not such great situations ... plus they're in the Deep South.

LA is a much bigger market than anyone else not NY, and Dallas and Houston are closer to a title than Boston is while also being in bigger markets than Boston.

Yet, he turned them down

But Boston is not the Deep South. And right now we're looking at two years since his decision, from 29 to 31, and the Knicks are not qualifying. That's not where he wanted to be. Things have changed.

Easy for us to say there's no difference between 8 and 11 -- not sure you really believe that, I know what you mean but don't buy it to be honest -- but much harder for Melo to say that. He wants to have a shot and to at least get into the playoffs.

To make the point that I don't think we can buy this "8 versus 11 has no difference" thing, if the Knicks made it as the 8th seed, we'd all say "Melo is not going anywhere, the Knicks are on the upswing."

You have to be on the upswing to be on the upswing. Melo is not a Knicks fan. He isn't looking 5 years ahead. He's got 1-3 good years left.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It doesnt really seem like we run the typical pick n rolls. Our pick n rolls are different and sometimes serve a different purpose. Most teams have 3 guys spaced behind the 3 point line and run a high pick n roll to make it a 2 on 2.

We run a lot of side pick n rolls where the other guys are cutting underneath or at the top of the key with maybe 1 guy in the corner; and sometimes the purpose is just to get a post touch or hit a cutter. Even on our high pick n rolls, the spacing is different and there is constant movement. Hard for the ballhandler or roll man to get to the rim as the spacing isnt there

Would be interesting to see us run more modern pick n rolls to make it more of a 2 on 2 game. Kinda goes against the triangle principles though.

[ChicagoSportsFan21]

It doesnt really seem like we run the typical pick n rolls. Our pick n rolls are different and sometimes serve a different purpose. Most teams have 3 guys spaced behind the 3 point line and run a high pick n roll to make it a 2 on 2.

We run a lot of side pick n rolls where the other guys are cutting underneath or at the top of the key with maybe 1 guy in the corner; and sometimes the purpose is just to get a post touch or hit a cutter. Even on our high pick n rolls, the spacing is different and there is constant movement. Hard for the ballhandler or roll man to get to the rim as the spacing isnt there

Would be interesting to see us run more modern pick n rolls to make it more of a 2 on 2 game. Kinda goes against the triangle principles though.

Hi. OTC.

[GONYK]

LA sucks as bad or worse. Houston and Dallas were not such great situations ... plus they're in the Deep South.

LA is a much bigger market than anyone else not NY, and Dallas and Houston are closer to a title than Boston is while also being in bigger markets than Boston.

Yet, he turned them down

But Boston is not the Deep South. And right now we're looking at two years since his decision, from 29 to 31, and the Knicks are not qualifying. That's not where he wanted to be. Things have changed.

Easy for us to say there's no difference between 8 and 11 -- not sure you really believe that, I know what you mean but don't buy it to be honest -- but much harder for Melo to say that. He wants to have a shot and to at least get into the playoffs.

To make the point that I don't think we can buy this "8 versus 11 has no difference" thing, if the Knicks made it as the 8th seed, we'd all say "Melo is not going anywhere, the Knicks are on the upswing."

You have to be on the upswing to be on the upswing. Melo is not a Knicks fan. He isn't looking 5 years ahead. He's got 1-3 good years left.

First off, Texas and Dallas are not the "Deep South". It's not like he's playing in Alabama. Houston is the 4th largest city in the US with a huge northern transplant population

I agree with what you are saying about Melo's potential mindset, up to a point...but there is absolutely no reason why Boston would be the place he jumps to. They have 6 more wins than us.

He's not trading down from NY to Boston and leaving all the NY has to offer outside of the Knicks to go to team with 6 more wins than us.

Changes will happen with the Knicks roster before then, or he'll go to a real team.

And Melo has disproved this notion that he'll go "anywhere" to win time and time again.

[Greenie]

The key for the Celtics is how their pick from Brooklyn turns out this year. If they were land Ingram or Simmons, they'd be in a great position to become a contender. Having a great coach does that for you.

If the coach is so great why don't he just coach a player to superstardom?

Marcus Smart WHERE ARE YOU?

He is. Isaiah Thomas

Sorry to tell you, but Isaiah has been nice. He was nice in Sac which earned him his contract in PHX. The problem was that PHX had/has too many PG's.

[Greenie]

Thats incorrect Celtics wanted Winslow not Kaminsky. A lot executives criticize the Hornets for not taking that deal or drafting Winslow. It wasn't the assets it was Hornets stupidity.

or its late 1st round picks wont get your into the lottery because in the NBA quality is always better than quantity.

They were mid-round picks(15,16)and the 2018 Nets pick a lot if teams would take that deal over Kaminsky.

No they would not. Those picks are trash compared to a top 10 pick. Point. Blank. Period.

[Johnny Hoops]

Their assets couldn't even get them Frank Kaminsky and they will be knocked out of the 1st round again.

They are better than us today, but unless they knock that Brooklyn pick out of the park, I'm not seeing a whole lot to get excited about.

Thats incorrect Celtics wanted Winslow not Kaminsky. A lot executives criticize the Hornets for not taking that deal or drafting Winslow. It wasn't the assets it was Hornets stupidity.

Wanting Winslow doesn't really make it that much better though. If it costs that much to move up 7 spots to get a Justise Winslow, and still not getting a deal, then I question the value of the "assets" league wide. Especially since Ainge was peddling his wares from the Knicks all the way to Charlotte and no one bit.

Of course, value is relative and all trades are contextual, but Boston hasn't been able to to turn their stockpile into an offer someone can't refuse.

If the prohibitive value of obtaining high draft picks is your example -- doesn't that support Boston's position of strength if they own more picks in multiple drafts and they own picks from BAD teams (Nets)?

[GONYK]

Thats incorrect Celtics wanted Winslow not Kaminsky. A lot executives criticize the Hornets for not taking that deal or drafting Winslow. It wasn't the assets it was Hornets stupidity.

Wanting Winslow doesn't really make it that much better though. If it costs that much to move up 7 spots to get a Justise Winslow, and still not getting a deal, then I question the value of the "assets" league wide. Especially since Ainge was peddling his wares from the Knicks all the way to Charlotte and no one bit.

Of course, value is relative and all trades are contextual, but Boston hasn't been able to to turn their stockpile into an offer someone can't refuse.

If the prohibitive value of obtaining high draft picks is your example -- doesn't that support Boston's position of strength if they own more picks in multiple drafts and they own picks from BAD teams (Nets)?

Not really, unless they turn that Nets pick into someone good.

Otherwise, they just have quantity, not quality

[Fat Kat]

what are you looking at to suggest this? I am not trying to be a-hole either. Just curious do you have anything to back this up.

Stats show galloway is pretty much in the 50% in the entire league (as a ball handler) in running the P&R which includes all positions so that isn't very good.

For example Jose Calderon is in the 73rd percentile. Langston Galloway is in the 56th percentile. Believe it or not Dwill is our best (very small sample size) with Calderon being #2.

Langston is a distance 3 which goes to show you we really don't have a great option. Melo is actually pretty poor as a pick and roll ball handler according to the stats this year.

Any way to check his efficacy with specific player groups? If Galloway is running PnR with the likes of Seraphin and Oquinn rather than RoLo and KP all game, that'd skew the numbers pretty heavily.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bballbreakdown/status/694644155587305472[/tweet]

[Johnny Hoops]

Regardless of what deals Celtics have made or have tried to make and failed -- they still have legitimate assets to get into the conversations and they still have legitimate picks to get lucky with --- they have a chance.

the nets picks are the true assets. Because they have top 5-10 ability. All the others "assets" are fluff.

If they want to get in the Horford sweepstakes or someone along those lines. That will be the price to pay. Not middling 1st rounders.

I agree but Boston still has those picks and we are comparing their position to that of the Knicks.

I'll argue that Boston has a superior & younger current roster, significantly more high-end picks and more cap flexibility.

[Knicksfan1992]

Looking back on it Celtics fans should be kissing Michael Jordan's feet that he didn't let Ainge trade away a lot of his "assets" just to end up taking Justice Winslow as their "future star". Best thing that has happened to them.

[CelticsPride18]

Looking back on it Celtics fans should be kissing Michael Jordan's feet that he didn't let Ainge trade away a lot of his "assets" just to end up taking Justice Winslow as their "future star". Best thing that has happened to them.

Justise Winslow is very young and hes making a big impact on defense. If he improves his shooting he can be a star.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Looking back on it Celtics fans should be kissing Michael Jordan's feet that he didn't let Ainge trade away a lot of his "assets" just to end up taking Justice Winslow as their "future star". Best thing that has happened to them.

But now they're trying to trade for Dwight. Maybe Boston is just dumb and is getting lucky by not making big mistakes due to other teams saying "no"

[King of Canada]

Looking back on it Celtics fans should be kissing Michael Jordan's feet that he didn't let Ainge trade away a lot of his "assets" just to end up taking Justice Winslow as their "future star". Best thing that has happened to them.

But now they're trying to trade for Dwight. Maybe Boston is just dumb and is getting lucky by not making big mistakes due to other teams saying "no"

Like a kid with $2 in their pocket that lives across the street from a candy store