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Trae’s first 28 games:
15.5 points, 7.2 assists, 2.7 rebounds on .377/.237/.784 (29.3 minutes per game)

Trae’s last 27 games:
18.1 points, 7.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on .445/.393/.813 (30.5 minutes per game)

No ones saying Luka won’t win ROY but that doesn’t mean Trae doesn’t look like a potential perennial all star.

kg01 wrote: It's also clear who has a weird obsession with spamming every thread with anti-Young rhetoric.

It's beyond unnecessary.

Yeah we just have to figure out how to all ignore those guys so they don't distract us. Ignore obvious trolls/agendas and life is better. Goodness knows us Mavs/Luka fans have to ignore a lot of anti-Luka stuff.

The difference is Luka is getting so much hype, plus you have a couple fanbases where some posters are a little defensive about the criticisms their teams received for passing on him. I don't really understand the motivation to have an anti-Trae rhetoric. Mavs fans shouldn't care at all.

All players are fair game for legit criticism and obviously rookies are going to have holes in their game that shouldn't be ignored, but when posters are just hating, they aren't worth anybody's time.

Atlhawks09 wrote:Trae’s first 28 games:
15.5 points, 7.2 assists, 2.7 rebounds on .377/.237/.784 (29.3 minutes per game)

Trae’s last 27 games:
18.1 points, 7.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on .445/.393/.813 (30.5 minutes per game)

No ones saying Luka won’t win ROY but that doesn’t mean Trae doesn’t look like a potential perennial all star.

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

J_T wrote:This thread still the worst thread on the entire forum. Keep on the good work, guys!

your contributions are definitely an improvement, right?

Bob8 wrote:

Buzzard wrote:Last 30 Day stats are staying consistent:
Luka:
23.3 PTS, 8.2 REB, 6.9 AST, 2.9 TO, .427 FG%, .700 FT%, .304 3PT%
Trae:
20.6 PTS, 4.2 REB, 8.1 AST, 3.7 TO, .453 FG%, .816 FT%, .366 3PT%

TS% for January and February.
Luka:
.530 and .551
Trae:
.577 and .551

eFG% for January and February.
Luka:
49.2 and 51.3
Trae:
51.8 and 50.5

I understand Luka will win the ROY; but some of you are tripping if you don't think Trae has future all-star written all over him.

Nobody is denying that Trae is playing very well lately, but it’s interesting how you’re using raw stats and shooting % and is in total denial of advanced stats.

Trae vs. Luka

BPM -3.2 vs. 3.9
OBPM 0.00 vs. 3.0
DBPM -3.2. vs O.9
VORP -0.5 vs. 2.6
ORTG 102, DRTG 117 vs. ORTG 109, DRTG 108
RPM -3.27 vs 2.64
ORPM 1.08 vs 3.04
DRPM -4.35 vs. -0.4
WINS -0.16 vs. 6.12

The difference in advanced stats is brutal. That’s the difference between top30 player and below average starter. Nobody knows what will future bring, but if you want to show with raw stats how near is Trae to Luka at the moment, it’s obvious you’re totally wrong.

I guess Thabo Sefolosha was deserving of a all-star nod back in 2012/13. Thabo's VORP was 3.1 in 2013, his win shares was 6.8. You want Luka to get a all-star nod, then you must think Thabo deserved one also. Another glaring example of how bad off these stats are, despite only averaging 9.9 points per game, Thabo's OBPM was 1.9 which is better than his DBPM of 1.6. Thabo was a defensive specialist but according to one of your favorite stats, he was better offensively. Please explain that.

I would take Trae and Luka over Thabo all day long. But I guess you think Thabo was better than either of them in 2013. For a offensive player such as Trae, efficiency and watching the game is the best way to make a judgement. Trae was not drafted because the Hawks thought he would be the next Patrick Beverly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html

Texas Chuck wrote:

J_T wrote:This thread still the worst thread on the entire forum. Keep on the good work, guys!

your contributions are definitely an improvement, right?

Believe it or not - yes. My non-existent contributions are way above average for this thread.

It wasn't much different last year either.

TheFinishSniper wrote:

Atlhawks09 wrote:Trae’s first 28 games:
15.5 points, 7.2 assists, 2.7 rebounds on .377/.237/.784 (29.3 minutes per game)

Trae’s last 27 games:
18.1 points, 7.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on .445/.393/.813 (30.5 minutes per game)

No ones saying Luka won’t win ROY but that doesn’t mean Trae doesn’t look like a potential perennial all star.

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

Hawks w/o Collins (or minute restriction)
2-16

Hawks with Collins/Trae/Huerter playing
15-20

Hawks have the 2nd youngest starting lineup in the league and start a rookie backcourt. Still have been playing much better basketball with Trae Young, Kevin Huerter and John Collins playing...in fact they have a positive net rating with all 3 on the court. All 3 are 21 years or younger.....

Buzzard wrote:

Bob8 wrote:

Buzzard wrote:Last 30 Day stats are staying consistent:
Luka:
23.3 PTS, 8.2 REB, 6.9 AST, 2.9 TO, .427 FG%, .700 FT%, .304 3PT%
Trae:
20.6 PTS, 4.2 REB, 8.1 AST, 3.7 TO, .453 FG%, .816 FT%, .366 3PT%

TS% for January and February.
Luka:
.530 and .551
Trae:
.577 and .551

eFG% for January and February.
Luka:
49.2 and 51.3
Trae:
51.8 and 50.5

I understand Luka will win the ROY; but some of you are tripping if you don't think Trae has future all-star written all over him.

Nobody is denying that Trae is playing very well lately, but it’s interesting how you’re using raw stats and shooting % and is in total denial of advanced stats.

Trae vs. Luka

BPM -3.2 vs. 3.9
OBPM 0.00 vs. 3.0
DBPM -3.2. vs O.9
VORP -0.5 vs. 2.6
ORTG 102, DRTG 117 vs. ORTG 109, DRTG 108
RPM -3.27 vs 2.64
ORPM 1.08 vs 3.04
DRPM -4.35 vs. -0.4
WINS -0.16 vs. 6.12

The difference in advanced stats is brutal. That’s the difference between top30 player and below average starter. Nobody knows what will future bring, but if you want to show with raw stats how near is Trae to Luka at the moment, it’s obvious you’re totally wrong.

I guess Thabo Sefolosha was deserving of a all-star nod back in 2012/13, Thabo's VORP was 3.1 in 2013, his win shares was 6.8. You want Luka to get a all-star nod, then you must think Thabo deserved one also. Another glaring example of how bad off these stats are, is despite only averaging 9.9 points per game, Thabo's OBPM was 1.9 which is better than his DBPM of 1.6. Thabo was a defensive specialist but according to one of your favorite stats, he was better offensively. Please explain that.

I would take Trae and Luka over Thabo all day long. But I guess you think Thabo was better than either of them in 2013. For a offensive player such as Trae, efficiency and watching the game is the best way to make a judgement. Trae was not drafted because the Hawks thought he would be the next Patrick Beverly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html

No they didn’t draft him for being Beverly, but they don’t want for him to be new IT either. Sure advanced stats are not perfect, but if the difference is that big that probably means something. Or maybe we must just discard anything, which is not raw stats? And if you’re using raw stats to prove something, you for sure cannot use arbitrary 30 days, which is by “accident” his best, because this timeline is not representative and data is too small. The only thing you can prove with this sample is that he had good last month. Or you want to tell me he’s better player than LeBron, because LeBron had bad last month?

J_T wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

J_T wrote:This thread still the worst thread on the entire forum. Keep on the good work, guys!

your contributions are definitely an improvement, right?

Believe it or not - yes. My non-existent contributions are way above average for this thread.

It wasn't much different last year either.

Why do you visit the thread then? I mean you know what it's going to be. Some of us just ignore the guys with agendas and try and engage with the posters worth engaging with. But if you believe the whole thread is trash, a fair enough opinion, then why even do that drive by?

Tons of really stupid threads on this board every day that I know to ignore just by the title, or by the first couple posts, you know?

Texas Chuck wrote:

J_T wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:
your contributions are definitely an improvement, right?

Believe it or not - yes. My non-existent contributions are way above average for this thread.

It wasn't much different last year either.

Why do you visit the thread then? I mean you know what it's going to be. Some of us just ignore the guys with agendas and try and engage with the posters worth engaging with. But if you believe the whole thread is trash, a fair enough opinion, then why even do that drive by?

Tons of really stupid threads on this board every day that I know to ignore just by the title, or by the first couple posts, you know?

I check literally once per month to see what the state of the war is.

Atlhawks09 wrote:

TheFinishSniper wrote:

Atlhawks09 wrote:Trae’s first 28 games:
15.5 points, 7.2 assists, 2.7 rebounds on .377/.237/.784 (29.3 minutes per game)

Trae’s last 27 games:
18.1 points, 7.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on .445/.393/.813 (30.5 minutes per game)

No ones saying Luka won’t win ROY but that doesn’t mean Trae doesn’t look like a potential perennial all star.

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

Hawks w/o Collins (or minute restriction)
2-16

Hawks with Collins/Trae/Huerter playing
15-20

Hawks have the 2nd youngest starting lineup in the league and start a rookie backcourt. Still have been playing much better basketball with Trae Young, Kevin Huerter and John Collins playing...in fact they have a positive net rating with all 3 on the court. All 3 are 21 years or younger.....

It is promising and having to defend that promise gets tiring. Some look at their new players and say what a great group; we might make the playoffs. Others look at their players and say what a great group; we might win a championship. While others look at other teams draft picks and try to knock them down with words and stats. Some do a little of all three; despite only watching a handful of the other teams games; if that.

If they say it is so; then it must be so. Fans do this all the time with their own players and other teams players. In the end these words really mean nothing; time and the games played is all that matters.

Trae looks like he'll be a very good offensive player. It's the defensive side I'm worried about. We'll see how that goes. But if Atlanta gets Zion, he'll go a long way towards masking some of Atlanta's "structural" problems.

Bob8 wrote:

Buzzard wrote:

Bob8 wrote:
Nobody is denying that Trae is playing very well lately, but it’s interesting how you’re using raw stats and shooting % and is in total denial of advanced stats.

Trae vs. Luka

BPM -3.2 vs. 3.9
OBPM 0.00 vs. 3.0
DBPM -3.2. vs O.9
VORP -0.5 vs. 2.6
ORTG 102, DRTG 117 vs. ORTG 109, DRTG 108
RPM -3.27 vs 2.64
ORPM 1.08 vs 3.04
DRPM -4.35 vs. -0.4
WINS -0.16 vs. 6.12

The difference in advanced stats is brutal. That’s the difference between top30 player and below average starter. Nobody knows what will future bring, but if you want to show with raw stats how near is Trae to Luka at the moment, it’s obvious you’re totally wrong.

I guess Thabo Sefolosha was deserving of a all-star nod back in 2012/13, Thabo's VORP was 3.1 in 2013, his win shares was 6.8. You want Luka to get a all-star nod, then you must think Thabo deserved one also. Another glaring example of how bad off these stats are, is despite only averaging 9.9 points per game, Thabo's OBPM was 1.9 which is better than his DBPM of 1.6. Thabo was a defensive specialist but according to one of your favorite stats, he was better offensively. Please explain that.

I would take Trae and Luka over Thabo all day long. But I guess you think Thabo was better than either of them in 2013. For a offensive player such as Trae, efficiency and watching the game is the best way to make a judgement. Trae was not drafted because the Hawks thought he would be the next Patrick Beverly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html

No they didn’t draft him for being Beverly, but they don’t want for him to be new IT either. Sure advanced stats are not perfect, but if the difference is that big that probably means something. Or maybe we must just discard anything, which is not raw stats? And if you’re using raw stats to prove something, you for sure cannot use arbitrary 30 days, which is by “accident” his best, because this timeline is not representative and data is too small. The only thing you can prove with this sample is that he had good last month. Or you want to tell me he’s better player than LeBron, because LeBron had bad last month?

Bob8, do you known what is a trend?
is not one month... and I'm the first believer of Doncic

Games 31-40 ts%= 55.1 usg%= 23.2
Games 41-50 ts%= 60.6 usg%= 26.6
Games 51-56 ts%= 55.1 usg%= 28.1

for a rookie PG is not simple put these stats

Stribor wrote:

Buzzard wrote:Last 30 Day stats are staying consistent.

Luka:
23.3 PTS, 8.2 REB, 6.9 AST, 2.9 TO, .427 FG%, .700 FT%, .304 3PT%
Trae:
20.6 PTS, 4.2 REB, 8.1 AST, 3.7 TO, .453 FG%, .816 FT%, .366 3PT%

TS% for January and February.
Luka:
.530 and .551
Trae:
.577 and .551

eFG% for January and February.
Luka:
.492 and .513
Trae:
.518 and .505

I understand Luka will win the ROY; but some of you are tripping if you don't think Trae has future all-star written all over him.

Yes, he has. It is actually even greater nod to Luka, he seems to be undisputed ROY in the rookie class that could well become known as one of the best classes in the history. Compare this to 2 years ago when Saric and Brogdon were the fighting each other (ok after Biid injury)

People who are arguing against Luka need to understand that this is not even about ROY award anymore. That was over long long time ago. This is something more, about the future and how these rookies will improve etc...
It's almost impossible to predict even with the advance stats on hand. But you still have a ton of people bringing up same stuff over and over again that was already said before the draft and it turned out that it is not true.

Obviously every rookie and young player has their flaws but there is still this notion that Luka's career can not be better than Trae's or Bagley's. I mean we heard today, when Bagley had a 32 point game, that suddenly he has a much higher ceiling than Luka for example.

If Bagley improves to a 30ppg next year and Luka continues with what he is doing this season and only improves to 25ppg, he'll still be better than Bagley. And this is something people will never understand why. Unless Bagley can carry a bunch of role players to victories, he'll never reach Doncic's status. Same goes for Trae and others. Luka has so much higher BBIQ and general understanding of playing a winning basketball, i would say even 90% of veterans don't have that.

I never cared about him winning ROY because i knew he came into the league to win championships, he never even mentioned money like Ayton for example who cares about his next contract. Luka is 5 years ahead of everyone mentally and this is not because he played pro in EU but because he was born with that gene. He just has it and he is already top 30 player?? At 19yo? He's also already one of the most popular and most feared players in clutch in the NBA.... How can people argue that his ceiling is lower than anyone's else? He hasn't even touched NBA conditioning training like other kids did. If he starts working on getting stronger, faster, i can't wait to see what kind of excuses people will bring up then.

I still enjoy watching other rookies play, specially Trae and Ayton. And i probably defended Luka a bit more than i should have here but still, all this talk about ceiling and same BS that went on before the draft is really stupid.

trae will easily be an all star. how can anyone not see that

mcmurphy wrote:

Bob8 wrote:

Buzzard wrote:
I guess Thabo Sefolosha was deserving of a all-star nod back in 2012/13, Thabo's VORP was 3.1 in 2013, his win shares was 6.8. You want Luka to get a all-star nod, then you must think Thabo deserved one also. Another glaring example of how bad off these stats are, is despite only averaging 9.9 points per game, Thabo's OBPM was 1.9 which is better than his DBPM of 1.6. Thabo was a defensive specialist but according to one of your favorite stats, he was better offensively. Please explain that.

I would take Trae and Luka over Thabo all day long. But I guess you think Thabo was better than either of them in 2013. For a offensive player such as Trae, efficiency and watching the game is the best way to make a judgement. Trae was not drafted because the Hawks thought he would be the next Patrick Beverly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html

No they didn’t draft him for being Beverly, but they don’t want for him to be new IT either. Sure advanced stats are not perfect, but if the difference is that big that probably means something. Or maybe we must just discard anything, which is not raw stats? And if you’re using raw stats to prove something, you for sure cannot use arbitrary 30 days, which is by “accident” his best, because this timeline is not representative and data is too small. The only thing you can prove with this sample is that he had good last month. Or you want to tell me he’s better player than LeBron, because LeBron had bad last month?

Bob8, do you known what is a trend?
is not one month... and I'm the first believer of Doncic

Games 31-40 ts%= 55.1 usg%= 23.2
Games 41-50 ts%= 60.6 usg%= 26.6
Games 51-56 ts%= 55.1 usg%= 28.1

for a rookie PG is not simple put these stats

What trend? He compared last 30 days raw stats of 2 players?

mixerball wrote:trae will easily be an all star. how can anyone not see that

Because the player they like can't be good unless they **** on every other rookie taken over him or in the case of Trae they have to **** on the rookie they were traded for. It's less about liking Luka and more about...

Bob8 wrote:

Buzzard wrote:

Bob8 wrote:
Nobody is denying that Trae is playing very well lately, but it’s interesting how you’re using raw stats and shooting % and is in total denial of advanced stats.

Trae vs. Luka

BPM -3.2 vs. 3.9
OBPM 0.00 vs. 3.0
DBPM -3.2. vs O.9
VORP -0.5 vs. 2.6
ORTG 102, DRTG 117 vs. ORTG 109, DRTG 108
RPM -3.27 vs 2.64
ORPM 1.08 vs 3.04
DRPM -4.35 vs. -0.4
WINS -0.16 vs. 6.12

The difference in advanced stats is brutal. That’s the difference between top30 player and below average starter. Nobody knows what will future bring, but if you want to show with raw stats how near is Trae to Luka at the moment, it’s obvious you’re totally wrong.

I guess Thabo Sefolosha was deserving of a all-star nod back in 2012/13, Thabo's VORP was 3.1 in 2013, his win shares was 6.8. You want Luka to get a all-star nod, then you must think Thabo deserved one also. Another glaring example of how bad off these stats are, is despite only averaging 9.9 points per game, Thabo's OBPM was 1.9 which is better than his DBPM of 1.6. Thabo was a defensive specialist but according to one of your favorite stats, he was better offensively. Please explain that.

I would take Trae and Luka over Thabo all day long. But I guess you think Thabo was better than either of them in 2013. For a offensive player such as Trae, efficiency and watching the game is the best way to make a judgement. Trae was not drafted because the Hawks thought he would be the next Patrick Beverly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html

No they didn’t draft him for being Beverly, but they don’t want for him to be new IT either. Sure advanced stats are not perfect, but if the difference is that big that probably means something. Or maybe we must just discard anything, which is not raw stats? And if you’re using raw stats to prove something, you for sure cannot use arbitrary 30 days, which is by “accident” his best, because this timeline is not representative and data is too small. The only thing you can prove with this sample is that he had good last month. Or you want to tell me he’s better player than LeBron, because LeBron had bad last month?

I am just trying to show a trend Bob. Efficiency is the new end all be all. It is why coaches are having centers shoot more threes than at anytime in their careers.

Trae has four stats that he must constantly improve: PTS. eFG%, AST, and TO. He does that, he will be doing the things he was drafted for. Since his horrible 16 games in November, he has been improving. That is a trend; and only time will tell if he continues or not.

I am not saying anything more or less. I think you are TBH.

Agreed. Trae looks like a really good PG. He's a joy to watch and the Hawks have an exciting young core with him/Huerter/Collins.

Buzzard wrote:

Bob8 wrote:

Buzzard wrote:
I guess Thabo Sefolosha was deserving of a all-star nod back in 2012/13, Thabo's VORP was 3.1 in 2013, his win shares was 6.8. You want Luka to get a all-star nod, then you must think Thabo deserved one also. Another glaring example of how bad off these stats are, is despite only averaging 9.9 points per game, Thabo's OBPM was 1.9 which is better than his DBPM of 1.6. Thabo was a defensive specialist but according to one of your favorite stats, he was better offensively. Please explain that.

I would take Trae and Luka over Thabo all day long. But I guess you think Thabo was better than either of them in 2013. For a offensive player such as Trae, efficiency and watching the game is the best way to make a judgement. Trae was not drafted because the Hawks thought he would be the next Patrick Beverly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sefolth01.html

No they didn’t draft him for being Beverly, but they don’t want for him to be new IT either. Sure advanced stats are not perfect, but if the difference is that big that probably means something. Or maybe we must just discard anything, which is not raw stats? And if you’re using raw stats to prove something, you for sure cannot use arbitrary 30 days, which is by “accident” his best, because this timeline is not representative and data is too small. The only thing you can prove with this sample is that he had good last month. Or you want to tell me he’s better player than LeBron, because LeBron had bad last month?

I am just trying to show a trend Bob. Efficiency is the new end all be all. It is why coaches are having centers shoot more threes than at anytime in their careers.

Trae has four stats that he must constantly improve: PTS. eFG%, AST, and TO. He does that, he will be doing the things he was drafted for. Since his horrible 16 games in November, he has been improving. That is a trend; and only time will tell if he continues or not.

I am not saying anything more or less. I think you are TBH.

If you wanted to show the trend, you should have compared Trae in the start of the season and Trae in last month and not comparing last month of Trae with Luka. And we wouldn’t have had this conversation.