Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[PaKii94]

I'd have to see the salary gap between the two. I think Collins probably has more untapped potential stemming from being stuck with Trae in that system. He also may be able to play more center than Lauri.

I don't understand Drummond though with him. Not enough defense for my taste at the 4/5. Plus then you are capped out with Zach.

Don't get fooled by John collins guys. He's a perfect example of "grass is greener on the other side". "stuck with trae"? lololol Trae is who makes him what he is! The attention he draws and the playmaking he provides is a great help to Collins.

1) We rag on Lauri's lack of self creation -> John Collins is FULLY playmaking dependent.
2 point FG assisted rate:
Lauri- this year (61%) -> second highest of career, career (53%)
Collins- this year (65%) -> lowest by far of career, career (73%)

2) Lauri is by far the better shooter compared to Collins. His 3 point rate is nearly 2x that of collins. That's a more valuable trait to have than "dunks"

3) Lauri's FT rate is again higher than Collins even though Collins is a lot more of a rim runner/traditional big. (Lauri is also the better FT shooter) That's a more valuable trait

4) We rag on Lauri's rebounding but Collins' isn't that much better. They are similar defensive rebounders (% wise) Collins is a better offensive rebounder but I think that's to be a given considering how close he plays to the basket. His average distance of play is 8 ft (this year is the highest at 11 ft). Lauri on the other hand plays at the minimum of 15 ft (almost double!).

5) Lauri is more efficient while creating more and taking a LOT more jumpers

6) Defense wise both are poor. Rim protection is probably a wash. I think Lauri is the better perimeter defender. IMO Collins is both mental + physical deficiency on defense. Lauri it's mostly physical.

I'd rather have the more shot creating/sharpshooting big with potential to be okay on defense. But I can see how a more athletic specimen would be more enticing.

This is something I had noticed last years when I was comparing Lauri and Collins. It's also worth noting that during Lauri's rookie season 64% of his 2P FG's came by way of assists and then over the last two seasons that percentage plummeted to around 53%. Bulls fans often point out that Lauri's shooting percentages haven't improved, but fail to note this discrepancy. 53% is a low percentage for a big man not named Giannis or Durant. Anthony Davis's career percentage is 67%, Sabonis' is 66%, Porzingis is 66%, and Adebayo, Zion, and Wood are all at 69%. And as you point out Lauri's percentage this season is 61% which is still relatively low compared to the career averages of his peers.

Pretty much. It gets glossed over because of the fact that Lauri unlike these other bigs has a much great proportion of shots from 3 point range which are inherently more assisted which bumps up his overall assisted percentage.

[Swuul]

The Finnish public broadcasting company YLE has an article on Lauri Markkanens season so far.
Googletranslated version: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11765435

A few notes on the translation (Finnish as language is one of the most difficult for Google translate to handle):
1) The header says in finnish "There has been very few European stars in the history of NBA", but Google translates that as "quite a few".
2) The word "rebound" is totally missing from the translation, or translated it to "playing the ball". So where you see words like "defensive" or "offensive" which don't seem to make any sense, add the word "rebound" after the word, and where you see the words "playing the ball" replace it with "rebounding", or if you see "offensive playing the ball" replace it with "offensive rebounds".
3) In finnish schools grading goes from 4 to 10 (don't ask me why the grading starts from 4 and not from 1, I don't have a clue why), with 10 being the best. So when you give somebody a "9" as a grade in Finland it is pretty close to "A-" in the USA school system.
4) The finnish word for "playmaker" (aka PG) is googletranslated to "butter"

[sco]

I'd have to see the salary gap between the two. I think Collins probably has more untapped potential stemming from being stuck with Trae in that system. He also may be able to play more center than Lauri.

I don't understand Drummond though with him. Not enough defense for my taste at the 4/5. Plus then you are capped out with Zach.

Don't get fooled by John collins guys. He's a perfect example of "grass is greener on the other side". "stuck with trae"? lololol Trae is who makes him what he is! The attention he draws and the playmaking he provides is a great help to Collins.

1) We rag on Lauri's lack of self creation -> John Collins is FULLY playmaking dependent.
2 point FG assisted rate:
Lauri- this year (61%) -> second highest of career, career (53%)
Collins- this year (65%) -> lowest by far of career, career (73%)

2) Lauri is by far the better shooter compared to Collins. His 3 point rate is nearly 2x that of collins. That's a more valuable trait to have than "dunks"

3) Lauri's FT rate is again higher than Collins even though Collins is a lot more of a rim runner/traditional big. (Lauri is also the better FT shooter) That's a more valuable trait

4) We rag on Lauri's rebounding but Collins' isn't that much better. They are similar defensive rebounders (% wise) Collins is a better offensive rebounder but I think that's to be a given considering how close he plays to the basket. His average distance of play is 8 ft (this year is the highest at 11 ft). Lauri on the other hand plays at the minimum of 15 ft (almost double!).

5) Lauri is more efficient while creating more and taking a LOT more jumpers

6) Defense wise both are poor. Rim protection is probably a wash. I think Lauri is the better perimeter defender. IMO Collins is both mental + physical deficiency on defense. Lauri it's mostly physical.

I'd rather have the more shot creating/sharpshooting big with potential to be okay on defense. But I can see how a more athletic specimen would be more enticing.

This is something I had noticed last years when I was comparing Lauri and Collins. It's also worth noting that during Lauri's rookie season 64% of his 2P FG's came by way of assists and then over the last two seasons that percentage plummeted to around 53%. Bulls fans often point out that Lauri's shooting percentages haven't improved, but fail to note this discrepancy. 53% is a low percentage for a big man not named Giannis or Durant. Anthony Davis's career percentage is 67%, Sabonis' is 66%, Porzingis is 66%, and Adebayo, Zion, and Wood are all at 69%. And as you point out Lauri's percentage this season is 61% which is still relatively low compared to the career averages of his peers.

It's a good point, it's tied to the fact that a high percent of Lauri's shots are 3pt shots, where most of the high % guys are post players first.

And I do worry a bit about Collins' defense if we were to get him, and I want to be consistent that if his defense is below, average too, I'd rather go a different direction to replace Lauri, if we want to trade him.

A deal I mentioned earlier that would excite me would be targeting Grant from Detroit, and taking Griffin's deal as part of the package. Griffin isn't good, but his deal let's you punt the cap space forward a year and he becomes an expiring salary for next season's deadline. I would be super excited about pairing Grant with PWill as our forward combo. If we did that, we could get away with a C like Drummond.

[Revenged25]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

[PaKii94]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

[DroseReturnChi]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

its just so stupid 29teams want lauri yet he is shunned by this crappy lottery team. i swear this guy is the closest thing to dirk.
even his coach said it. I already gave up on this team hope AK maxes him and ships for lottery picks.
Lauri knew he was a max player but was willing to give a hometown discount and this franchise never took it seriously.

[sco]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

its just so stupid 29teams want lauri yet he is shunned by this crappy lottery team. i swear this guy is the closest thing to dirk.
even his coach said it. I already gave up on this team hope AK maxes him and ships for lottery picks.
Lauri knew he was a max player but was willing to give a hometown discount and this franchise never took it seriously.

Somehow those 29 teams didn't want him enough to put a decent trade offer on the table during the offseason. And I think that lack of interest carried over into AK's low offer. We would all be thrilled if Lauri can maintain this higher level offense for more than a fraction of the season (see FebruLauri), while improving defensively (which was a critical flaw to his game coming into the season) and showing he's more durable than his past 3 seasons would suggest...I'm sure AK would pony-up the $.

You know the Dirk thing is kinda funny, but I doubt Dirk would be viewed today as elite, as his game has become the norm rather than the unicorn it was back during his prime. Defenses have adjusted to the 4 man out offenses as 3pt shooting bigs have become commonplace (but it was, in part, due to Dirk's innovation), and more is asked of PF's defensively, as they now need to be able to close-out on 3pt shooters, where Dirk really didn't need to do that much.

[Revenged25]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

its just so stupid 29teams want lauri yet he is shunned by this crappy lottery team. i swear this guy is the closest thing to dirk.
even his coach said it. I already gave up on this team hope AK maxes him and ships for lottery picks.
Lauri knew he was a max player but was willing to give a hometown discount and this franchise never took it seriously.

Don't get me wrong though, he's not a max player and paying him as such will tank his trade value. He needs to be paid in the 20-25 mil range, though if 25 mil AAV is his max then that's fine, but higher than that he'll be valued just as poorly as Love since although he's younger he doesn't rebound nearly as well. I mean Kevin Love, when healthy, is really only about 5-7 mil AAV off of what he should be making for what he does.

[TheSuzerain]

Trade high on Lauri and Zach. We can do this!

[cjbulls]

Trade high on Lauri and Zach. We can do this!

I think the trade market for these two seems limited but more because of supply than demand.

Zach is actually becoming too highly valued of a prospect. He’s 90% Beal at 50% of the salary. That means it’ll take a big offer to pry him away. Most of the contenders have taken their shot with other guys. GS is the only deal off the top of my head that makes some sense with Wiseman + Minny pick, but I don’t think they’re selling it all out for Zach.

I’m not sure teams want half a season of Lauri at this point. The teams that should want him are the over the cap big spenders because you can play the RFA to your benefit . But of those teams, most don’t have assets left, and if they do they probably want to use their last chips on someone they know can help, and Lauri is a bit of a mystery.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

its just so stupid 29teams want lauri yet he is shunned by this crappy lottery team. i swear this guy is the closest thing to dirk.
even his coach said it. I already gave up on this team hope AK maxes him and ships for lottery picks.
Lauri knew he was a max player but was willing to give a hometown discount and this franchise never took it seriously.

Somehow those 29 teams didn't want him enough to put a decent trade offer on the table during the offseason. And I think that lack of interest carried over into AK's low offer. We would all be thrilled if Lauri can maintain this higher level offense for more than a fraction of the season (see FebruLauri), while improving defensively (which was a critical flaw to his game coming into the season) and showing he's more durable than his past 3 seasons would suggest...I'm sure AK would pony-up the $.

You know the Dirk thing is kinda funny, but I doubt Dirk would be viewed today as elite, as his game has become the norm rather than the unicorn it was back during his prime. Defenses have adjusted to the 4 man out offenses as 3pt shooting bigs have become commonplace (but it was, in part, due to Dirk's innovation), and more is asked of PF's defensively, as they now need to be able to close-out on 3pt shooters, where Dirk really didn't need to do that much.

You cant compare Lauri and Dirk. Not in your wildest dreams. Nobody with right mind is comparing Zach to Jordan. That is just plain stupid. Strongly disagree everything said about Dirk. In Shaqs voice 33/13/4 season today for Dirk. Mvp candidate and first team regulary. You can talk about coverages and defensive schemes, threw that under the table and let Dirk work. Tatum,Siakam,George,Randle barbaque chicken for Dirk.Pure dominance.

[Revenged25]

Would you guys think considering Lauri as the JJ Reddick of PFs an unreasonable comparison? A great 3rd/4th option on a championship contender that can stretch the floor but isn't going to really create their own points and would need someone on the roster to create for them. Maybe I'm off as I haven't watched too much of the Bulls but seems like from the comments here and what I have seen that might be a fairly accurate assessment of him.

[ZOMG]

Would you guys think considering Lauri as the JJ Reddick of PFs an unreasonable comparison? A great 3rd/4th option on a championship contender that can stretch the floor but isn't going to really create their own points and would need someone on the roster to create for them. Maybe I'm off as I haven't watched too much of the Bulls but seems like from the comments here and what I have seen that might be a fairly accurate assessment of him.

No, that's Bertans.

[Revenged25]

Would you guys think considering Lauri as the JJ Reddick of PFs an unreasonable comparison? A great 3rd/4th option on a championship contender that can stretch the floor but isn't going to really create their own points and would need someone on the roster to create for them. Maybe I'm off as I haven't watched too much of the Bulls but seems like from the comments here and what I have seen that might be a fairly accurate assessment of him.

No, that's Bertans.

So how do you see Lauri then? He's not Dirk as Dirk could run the offense and create offense for himself whenever he wanted, but I think he's better than Bertans.

[ZOMG]

Would you guys think considering Lauri as the JJ Reddick of PFs an unreasonable comparison? A great 3rd/4th option on a championship contender that can stretch the floor but isn't going to really create their own points and would need someone on the roster to create for them. Maybe I'm off as I haven't watched too much of the Bulls but seems like from the comments here and what I have seen that might be a fairly accurate assessment of him.

No, that's Bertans.

So how do you see Lauri then? He's not Dirk as Dirk could run the offense and create offense for himself whenever he wanted, but I think he's better than Bertans.

I'm not really that interested in these comparisons - to me Lauri is a guy who's currently averaging 20pts and 7rbs in the NBA on 63/40/84 shooting splits, while playing just 30 mpg. If he keeps this up, that's a guy who's gonna be very expensive in this league.

Meanwhile, Bertans and his $80 million contract are averaging 11 and 3 while shooting .327 from the perimeter.

[FranchisePlayer]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They don't seem to appreciate even now when it stares at them in every game.

[sco]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They don't seem to appreciate even now when it stares at them in every game.

Show me that pic at the end of the season. I do really hope you can rub it in, and I'm wrong!

[PaKii94]

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They don't seem to appreciate even now when it stares at them in every game.

Show me that pic at the end of the season. I do really hope you can rub it in, and I'm wrong!

Cross your fingers for a healthy Lauri then

[Dez]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They'll "appreciate it" when it's consistent good.

[PaKii94]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They'll "appreciate it" when it's consistent good.

A healthy Lauri has been consistently good but I know what you mean. That's why I said pray for a healthy Lauri and we'll get consistently good shooting for the rest of the season