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[WeekapaugGroove]

I still maintain that we could’ve drafted Clarke at #10 and Cam would’ve dropped to the selection where we drafted Jerome (#21?) and could’ve taken him then. But obviously we will never know.

Clarke went 21 (Jerome 24), the irony is I think 21 is the exact spot Cam was going to go if he is was there because OKC was originally in that spot and was reported to be very high on Cam and absolutely needed the wing shooting.

I said I was done talking about Warren a while bqck because it's tedious at this point but I'd just say let's be careful to assume the production a player has with one team would be the production you would see on another team. Situation matters so much in this league. Because of injuries TJ got to take on a much bigger scoring load than he would have in Phoenix last year. He also played decent D something he never even came close to doing as a member of the Sun's. Good for him and I wish him well but personally I don't care that he's gone.

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[alamin330]

I still maintain that we could’ve drafted Clarke at #10 and Cam would’ve dropped to the selection where we drafted Jerome (#21?) and could’ve taken him then. But obviously we will never know.

Clarke went 21 (Jerome 24), the irony is I think 21 is the exact spot Cam was going to go if he is was there because OKC was originally in that spot and was reported to be very high on Cam and absolutely needed the wing shooting.

I said I was done talking about Warren a while bqck because it's tedious at this point but I'd just say let's be careful to assume the production a player has with one team would be the production you would see on another team. Situation matters so much in this league. Because of injuries TJ got to take on a much bigger scoring load than he would have in Phoenix last year. He also played decent D something he never even came close to doing as a member of the Sun's. Good for him and I wish him well but personally I don't care that he's gone.

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Neither do I. But that doesn’t mean just give him away

[sasquatchBob]

1+2=4. Works for me. The TJ trade was addition by subtraction. He simply was not the right fit for our team. JJ identified an area of improvement and addressed it by sending TJ packing. I thought at the time it was the right thing to do, and I still agree with the move.

Did I want more from the asset that was TJ Warren? YES! We all did. I'll, again, give JJ the benefit of the doubt and say that the TJ Warren market was super soft. Logically... 1) Teams were not calling us about TJ Warren and offering us anything good otherwise we would have gotten more for TJ. 2) JJ was shopping TJ, and obviously not getting good offers. Otherwise he wouldn't have settled for the crappy Indiana trade.

People here overvalued TJ Warren. The actual market showed TJ Warren's TRUE value.

In terms of math... it's more like dominoes. The TJ Warren domino fell and set off a chain reaction that resulted (directly and indirectly) in the team we have today. I am happy-ish with our team, and would take our team over TJ Warren's Indiana.

I agree with what you're saying except the bolded part. Do you truly believe TJ's value was so much in negative that we had to attach 2nd round pick to get rid of him?

Good point, and my answer is yes TJ's value was that bad at the time. We couldn't just cut the guy, otherwise we would have dead cap/money. He was a little bit of a head case in PHX (RIP Girlfriend) and arguably didn't fit in very well with his Suns teammates. He played poorish defense and his 3 point shot was still emerging. There may be stuff behind the scenes that contributed to us having to attach the 2nd round pick.

For those on the "JJ didn't try hard enough" train... there is merit in that argument, but we will never actually know how hard JJ tried. We will never know the whole story. I'll give JJ the benefit of the doubt.

TJ was never really toxic though. And the RIP Girlfriend stuff can't be real. It sounds too mental If anything Warren was the one who cared on the same level as Booker. That's why a lot of people on this board still have hard time letting him go.

[sasquatchBob]

Anyone watching Warriors vs Pistons?

[alamin330]

[instagram][/instagram]

Anyone watching Warriors vs Pistons?

Josh looking nice

[sasquatchBob]

Josh Jackson will end up being a good player. You heard it here first!

[AtheJ415]

Jackson may end up decent. That's okay. I'm not going to blast us getting rid of him, though I do blame us for adding a pick and Melton. Jackson was a terrible player. Like one of the worst players in the league both on and off the court.

I will never excuse dumping Warren. Efficient scoring is the most valuable thing in the league and he's awesome at that, and worked hard and improved. His 3 point improvement has been outstanding and I think his D would've come along. His passing may never end up great but it simply isn't a problem when you score that efficiently.

I agree with the poster above regarding Clarke and Cam. I never had a problem with Cam the player. I thought he was underrated on draft boards, but still wouldn't have taken him over Clarke and still think we would've gotten him lower. Same with Smith. Smith was one of the 8 guys I was okay with Phoenix grabbing, but I wanted him lower. As good as Cam has been, I'm not sure he's that much of a home run pick because he'd probably go right where we took him in a re-draft. It's not as if we got absurd value for the pick, which is why I don't understand the extreme amount of credit given Jones on that one. Yes, he went out of the box and it worked, but to the level we'd expect. I do have high hopes for Cam's potential though now that he is showing he can play the 4 and handle the ball. Shooters with size who aren't defensive liabilities always have upside, and it's easier to develop off the dribble games than many think imo (see Jimmy Butler, Mikal, etc.).

[AtheJ415]

Also Peyton Pritchard is playing a TON for Boston in this game and is disrupting the hell out of Indy.

[ATTL]

I hope james jones is right about jalen smith because I still really like haliburton.

[AtheJ415]

I hope james jones is right about jalen smith because I still really like haliburton.

He's been awesome. Also, I think we really need to be giving Smith some minutes. There's no real reason to play Jones or Kaminsky ahead of him imo. Smith is a 5 easily so can grab a few minutes there. Our FO thinks he can play the 4, which he really needs to be able to play to have value for us unless we're planning on trading Ayton. He should get the 3rd string minutes at both spots imo.

[LV-Suns]

I hope james jones is right about jalen smith because I still really like haliburton.

Tyrese fit right into the mold of the players James Jones has been bringing in too. Jalen Smith seems like a McD style pick.

[NTB]

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[Saberestar]

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The Wolves without Towns are a terrible team. Culver looks two years away from being a decent player and they have a good amount of low IQ players.

And I don't like Saunders...probably one of the worst HCs in the league.

[Saberestar]

Anyone watching Warriors vs Pistons?

I could watch some, but not the full game.

Both teams looked bad to me. GSW slightly better because of Curry.

Oubre... meh.

Jackson was playing more under control and he was OK. Nothing special... but OK.

[bwoolf2]

I hope james jones is right about jalen smith because I still really like haliburton.

Tyrese fit right into the mold of the players James Jones has been bringing in too. Jalen Smith seems like a McD style pick.

Cam Payne is a better player than Halliburton currently and the Suns obviously like him quite a bit so Haliburton would not have gotten many minutes on this team in the next two years, Jones drafts for fit and he wasn't a fit right now simple as that. Jones has put together one of the deepest highest IQ teams in the NBA and you all wanna bitch about Josh Jackson and tj Warren, and I'm ok with Warren but those are two of the lowest IQ players I have seen in a suns uniform.

[bwgood77]

I hope james jones is right about jalen smith because I still really like haliburton.

Tyrese fit right into the mold of the players James Jones has been bringing in too. Jalen Smith seems like a McD style pick.

Cam Payne is a better player than Halliburton currently and the Suns obviously like him quite a bit so Haliburton would not have gotten many minutes on this team in the next two years, Jones drafts for fit and he wasn't a fit right now simple as that. Jones has put together one of the deepest highest IQ teams in the NBA and you all wanna bitch about Josh Jackson and tj Warren, and I'm ok with Warren but those are two of the lowest IQ players I have seen in a suns uniform.

Hard to know who is better, but I'd lean Payne, but Haliburton would be very solid to have for post Paul. A Payne/Haliburton future might not be too bad if we don't find a legit starter, and if Payne continues his trajectory, maybe he can become a decent starter, which is crazy to say after being out of the league last year until the bubble and basically out of the league for most of the two years prior to that.

I mean, that is unbelievable. Big credit for Monty believing in him, citing going back to the OKC days. For some guys it's all about the coach showing confidence in him and not yanking guys too quickly.

[darealjuice]

I'm not typically one to hang on previous draft picks, but not drafting Haliburton still irks me. I had him 4 and feel like it'd be easy to make compelling argument to have him higher, but somehow he ends up at 12 despite being a perfect fit for multiple teams? Then reports that he forced himself to drop because he didn't like fits and/or direction, only to choose Sacramento? Sacramento has been scrappy so far this season and could be a dark horse to sneak into the playoffs, just seems weird.

I'll also say that I was pretty anti-Jalen Smith going into the draft because I saw his best fit in the NBA being at center, but I've been pleasantly surprised so far. He still hasn't 100% convinced me that he'll be at his best at power forward, but he's been more mobile and his handle has been better than I expected. I also think he's similar to Bridges and Cam in that you can count on him to work to develop because he's disciplined and mature at a young age.

[bwgood77]

I'm not typically one to hang on previous draft picks, but not drafting Haliburton still irks me. I had him 4 and feel like it'd be easy to make compelling argument to have him higher, but somehow he ends up at 12 despite being a perfect fit for multiple teams? Then reports that he forced himself to drop because he didn't like fits and/or direction, only to choose Sacramento? Sacramento has been scrappy so far this season and could be a dark horse to sneak into the playoffs, just seems weird.

I'll also say that I was pretty anti-Jalen Smith going into the draft because I saw his best fit in the NBA being at center, but I've been pleasantly surprised so far. He still hasn't 100% convinced me that he'll be at his best at power forward, but he's been more mobile and his handle has been better than I expected. I also think he's similar to Bridges and Cam in that you can count on him to work to develop because he's disciplined and mature at a young age.

Yeah, averaging 5.3 apg to .8 turnovers, shooting 56/50/100 so far. Not bad for a rookie in his first 4 games. Would have been nice to have him on a rookie contract.

[spanishninja]

Hmm, Zach Collins is out again, this time with ankle surgery. Portland can't seem to catch a break.

[TeamTragic]

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Poor Rubio. Bring him back ASAP.