76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Nuntius]

Huh? Fultz barely played for the Sixers precisely because they tried to be extra careful with him. I am not sure what the Sixers did wrong here. For what it's worth, Fultz and his shooting form hasnt really recoverd from that "injury" to this day so Orlando's medical team hasnt faired any better. I get why Fultz did what he did (he was trying to save his career), but i dont see how Fultz trying to find a doctor to give him a diagnosis (TOS) that was virtually impossible to verify reflects badly on the Sixers medical team. His shooting form is still terrible and its been some years since he moved away from the Sixers medical team. In any case, i dont see how Fultz is in any way relevant here.

Fultz is very relevant, in my opinion, because his situation gives us insight into how the Sixers operate as a franchise and how they use their medical team to get the spin they want with the media. The Sixers tried to portray Fultz as a nutcase. They tried to say that he was "just scared to shoot". The media ate that **** up and then sold this spin to NBA fans who kept calling Fultz a nutcase, a mental midget and all that good stuff. I was here when it happened so I remember what was told quite vividly. It's not all that different from the slurs that people direct now at Simmons. Some people are very happy and very ready to attack players at the behest of big corporations.

Orlando's medical team verified that Fultz's injury was indeed serious when they traded for him. So, his missed that season and then returned the next where he produced fairly well. Not All-Star level production, of course, but good starter level production. Pretty good for a "mental midget nutcase who's afraid to shoot", huh?

His shooting numbers, by the way, were markedly better in Orlando. He shot 73% from the FT line (up from 47.6% in his rookie season and 56.8% in his sophomore season) and 41.6% from the mid-range (up from 25% in his rookie season and 24.4% in his sophomore season). Sure, the 3-point range isn't there yet but you can't say that these numbers aren't an improvement. So, Orlando's medical team definitely did the right thing here, unlike Philly's medical team. It just sucks that Fultz tore his ACL this January.

Simmons has been treated by the same medical team (which, bear in mind, has changed over the years) multiple times over these years and he never had an issue with them. It's reasonable to say that the team's medical team might not be completely impartial but Simmons shouldnt have any reason to mistrust them. Also, i dont see how the Sixers are discrediting the NBPA medical proffessional (who shouldnt be considered impartial either). The only issue at the moment is that the team has the right to know what Simmons is doing, whether he has been diagnosed with any mental illness and what are the steps and the timeline for his return and Simmons' side is not cooperating. The same thing that any team would do with any injured player somehow has become a matter of controversy and debate here.

Read my post again, please. I never said that the Sixers are discrediting the NBPA medical professional. I specifically said that it was the people in this thread and not the Sixers who are discrediting the NBPA medical professional. I tried to be very clear on that.

The excerpt was pretty clear. If the player is seeing a physician (psychiatrist or not) to get a diagnosis about an illness/injury then the team has the right to know what it's going on. i might add that it is pretty reeasonable for a player that is not able to provide his services for a medical reason to provide some proof for that and to be in contact with the team in the meantime. Again, this is a pretty standard and reasonable practice, i am not sure why the Sixers request is viewed as something extraordinary by some people here.

Unless we're not talking about a mental health related medical service which is exactly what is happening in this case. That's why I said that the excerpt was pretty murky. Because that exception under B seems to apply in this case.

NBA level athletes should never ever be compared with normal workers/employees since their bargaining power is orders of magnitude bigger, which is why they are getting these ridiculous salaries. No one is defending the owners here, but trying to compare NBA athletes, and stars at that, to normal people working 9-5 and claim that whatever agreement they negotiate with the owners will be relevant to and impact the working rights of normal people is indeed disingenuous.

I fully disagree with everything in that part of your post. There is a pretty clear employer-employee relationship between NBA teams and NBA players. The power dynamics aren't all that different from any other employer-employee relationship either. Owners typically make much, much more than players do. Owners profit off of the players' labor. Making millions does not erase all these dynamics. All it does is make them very handsomenly-paid employees. Still employees, though.

[Nuntius]

There's no weak part here, using this kind of arguments for a guy on a 170m contract drives me nuts.
What I am saying is that we should support people whose life can be ruined and that can't defend themselves.
People who can't talk about their problems, that would lose everything without their job.
People who than can be forced by the stronger part to give up their right and that are not in position to negotiate a fair treatment.
The Simmons-76ers relationship is nothing like that, Simmons has all the means necessary to defend his rights in an arbitration, if he decides so.

You are aware that you can do both, right? The arguments I'm using in this thread do not preclude me from supporting people whose lives can be ruined by their employers. If anything, I believe that doing both is the only way to be ideologically consistent. If I changed what I believe in because Simmons happens to be a handsomely paid athlete and I suddenly decided to side with the ownership then, frankly, I'd be full of ****.

Actually, recently we've seen more star players bully the teams (Leonard, Harden, Davis) who were actually the weaker part not in position to really defend their rights.

These poor, defenseless billionaires

If this was the truth, he would have flagged it earlier as the reason why he couldn't come back. The moment it comes after demanding a trade, the holdout, the halfassed return after the fine, the suspension and the fake back pain this story holds little credibility.

There's no if here. It is the truth. Do you really think that the NBPA would allow Simmons or any other athlete to use them in a lie like that? If Simmons had lied about using NBPA mental health help since the summer then the NBPA would have already denied it. They didn't deny it which means that he has been using NBPA mental health help since the summer.

To be clear, I believe he might have been seeking help during the summer, what I don't believe is that's something that doesn't allow him to play.

And it's your right to believe whatever you want. Just stop presenting it as a fact.

[khufure]

Hate to see the team in such disarray.

Read on Twitter

Yo dumping water/ice on the coach is supposed to be for winning playoff games. Embiid is such a clown lul

Really? Dude just got his 1,000th win - only the 10th guy in the history of the league to do it. And you rag on them for celebrating it?

Even by RealGM standards, this is...an interesting take.

I wasn't ragging, I was kidding. I thought Embiid might have been a bit tilted cause his star teammate is being such a turd, and they are #1 in the east early in the season. I didn't know it was Doc's 1000th win. Take a chill pill and stop freaking out over a post on the internet.

[bebopdeluxe]

Yo dumping water/ice on the coach is supposed to be for winning playoff games. Embiid is such a clown lul

Really? Dude just got his 1,000th win - only the 10th guy in the history of the league to do it. And you rag on them for celebrating it?

Even by RealGM standards, this is...an interesting take.

I wasn't ragging, I was kidding. I thought Embiid might have been a bit tilted cause his star teammate is being such a turd, and they are #1 in the east early in the season. I didn't know it was Doc's 1000th win. Take a chill pill and stop freaking out over a post on the internet.

I am totally chill. You were the one with the ridiculous post clowning Embiid.

[rzzzzz]

Hate to see the team in such disarray.

Read on Twitter

Yo dumping water/ice on the coach is supposed to be for winning playoff games. Embiid is such a clown lul

No offense taken. This is the best start we’ve had in a long time. Even the Simmons stuff is funny at this point.

[NZB2323]

Having to meet with team physician is harming Simmons' mental health.

Don't see Sixers ever winning this one in arbitration if challenged. They cannot prove that Simmons is not suffering from mental health issues.

Of course, I do think Simmons / Rich Paul is faking this whole mental health episode.

You can't prove in court that meeting with a team psychologist is bad for Simmons' mental health.

[Yoshun]

Because he got fined for not providing basic information and none of him, his agent or the players association have disputed it? What else is there to go off of?

I don't know what exactly the Sixers are asking him for (I would assume it's stuff like (a) have you been diagnosed by a psychiatrist (b) what is your diagnosis (c) what are you doing to treat it) but by all reports he's given them basically nothing:

Right, that's kind of what I'm saying. There is nothing else to go off of. All we have is the Sixers saying, " We asked him for stuff and he didn't give it to us." Along with assumptions as to what they're asking for. We really don't know what they're asking for or what Simmons has given them. Pretty much all of the reports we have to go off of have been from the Sixers. It just sounds like there could be a lot we don't know.

Seems pretty clear to me, he's not sharing anything other than he's not mentally ready to play. Which, by the way, is not an actual mental illness last I checked.

No, but it can definitely be a symptom of an actual mental illness he may not feel comfortable sharing.

[Yoshun]

Right, that's kind of what I'm saying. There is nothing else to go off of. All we have is the Sixers saying, " We asked him for stuff and he didn't give it to us." Along with assumptions as to what they're asking for. We really don't know what they're asking for or what Simmons has given them. Pretty much all of the reports we have to go off of have been from the Sixers. It just sounds like there could be a lot we don't know.

Seems pretty clear to me, he's not sharing anything other than he's not mentally ready to play. Which, by the way, is not an actual mental illness last I checked.

I’m a big supporter of player empowerment and awareness for mental health issues in this country, but I’m having a hard time finding sympathy for Ben. I’m sure he has some anxiety about playing for the Sixers but it’s a situation he’s caused.

If a guy cheats on his wife, and then texts her that he wants a divorce and is seeing someone else, and then also refuses to answer her calls for the next several weeks, he would have created an unpleasant situation. I’m sure this theoretical guy would indeed have anxiety about having to see his ex-wife face to face again too. That doesn’t mean he gets to claim the thought of having to face his ex is causing mental illness.

There’s a difference between having some anxiety about being in an uncomfortable position and having true mental illness.

Again though, this is assuming this issue is just about the Sixers. It's possible he may have an actual mental illness this situation has just exacerbated.

If you're already struggling with something having you employer publicly shame you to millions of people may make that worse.

To be clear, I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't have been confronted about his poor play. I'm saying that, if there were already mental health struggles prior to all this, the way things went down may have made whatever was going on a lot worse.

[jstross]

Simmons is great when there is zero pressure, but cracks like an egg under pressure. Regular season stats aren't relevant to playoff performance, expecially since a lot more half court in the playoffs. Add in the biggest factor, he developed the yips from the foul line. It's like a golfer suddenly unable to perform. It's in his head and nobody knows how to get it out of his head.

The Sixers having the best record in the East is the worst thing that could happen to Morey. They're literally better without him. He has zero trade value. Dude just needs to accept it, grab a McCollum type and move on. This team is still in it's prime and the East is wide open. Kill the distraction.

Actually Philly finished 1st in the East last season, and I'm not convinced they'll finish 1st in the East this season....

[jstross]

So, sucking under pressure is now a mental illness? I wouldn't go that far. Anxiety, performance issues? I guess one could generalize that as mental illness, but then 80% of the country suffers from mental illness. Most still go to work.

Seems pretty clear to me, he's not sharing anything other than he's not mentally ready to play. Which, by the way, is not an actual mental illness last I checked.

I’m a big supporter of player empowerment and awareness for mental health issues in this country, but I’m having a hard time finding sympathy for Ben. I’m sure he has some anxiety about playing for the Sixers but it’s a situation he’s caused.

If a guy cheats on his wife, and then texts her that he wants a divorce and is seeing someone else, and then also refuses to answer her calls for the next several weeks, he would have created an unpleasant situation. I’m sure this theoretical guy would indeed have anxiety about having to see his ex-wife face to face again too. That doesn’t mean he gets to claim the thought of having to face his ex is causing mental illness.

There’s a difference between having some anxiety about being in an uncomfortable position and having true mental illness.

Again though, this is assuming this issue is just about the Sixers. It's possible he may have an actual mental illness this situation has just exacerbated.

If you're already struggling with something having you employer publicly shame you to millions of people may make that worse.

To be clear, I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't have been confronted about his poor play. I'm saying that, if there were already mental health struggles prior to all this, the way things went down may have made whatever was going on a lot worse.

[HotelVitale]

Huh? Fultz barely played for the Sixers precisely because they tried to be extra careful with him. I am not sure what the Sixers did wrong here. For what it's worth, Fultz and his shooting form hasnt really recoverd from that "injury" to this day so Orlando's medical team hasnt faired any better. I get why Fultz did what he did (he was trying to save his career), but i dont see how Fultz trying to find a doctor to give him a diagnosis (TOS) that was virtually impossible to verify reflects badly on the Sixers medical team. His shooting form is still terrible and its been some years since he moved away from the Sixers medical team. In any case, i dont see how Fultz is in any way relevant here.

Fultz is very relevant, in my opinion, because his situation gives us insight into how the Sixers operate as a franchise and how they use their medical team to get the spin they want with the media. The Sixers tried to portray Fultz as a nutcase. They tried to say that he was "just scared to shoot". The media ate that **** up and then sold this spin to NBA fans who kept calling Fultz a nutcase, a mental midget and all that good stuff. I was here when it happened so I remember what was told quite vividly. It's not all that different from the slurs that people direct now at Simmons. Some people are very happy and very ready to attack players at the behest of big corporations.

Orlando's medical team verified that Fultz's injury was indeed serious when they traded for him. So, his missed that season and then returned the next where he produced fairly well. Not All-Star level production, of course, but good starter level production. Pretty good for a "mental midget nutcase who's afraid to shoot", huh?

His shooting numbers, by the way, were markedly better in Orlando. He shot 73% from the FT line (up from 47.6% in his rookie season and 56.8% in his sophomore season) and 41.6% from the mid-range (up from 25% in his rookie season and 24.4% in his sophomore season). Sure, the 3-point range isn't there yet but you can't say that these numbers aren't an improvement. So, Orlando's medical team definitely did the right thing here, unlike Philly's medical team.

Hmm, you maybe gotta do your homework more on Fultz here. This is no attack on Fultz but I don't know of any way to frame his play as 'good starter-level production' in ORL--he was put in the best possible position for his game (got to run transition all day and pn'r with a great roll man whenever he wanted to) and his combo of low volume and inefficient play still made him one of the very worst offensive rotation players in the league. 16/4/6 per 36 doesn't sound miserable but when you add it to 3 TOs per 36 and the league's worst efficiency for a rotation guy (51% TS), those are the type of numbers that you'd have to be an elite role playing defender to earn any minutes with. The basic advanced numbers all bare that out too--RPM has him as the 70th best PG that year in offensive RPM, only PGs with worse OBPMs were 3 or so guys who have all washed out of the league now (e.g. Kris Dunn). Part of that was ORL having literally no one else who could play PG minutes, but he was also getting heavy, heavy development minutes because ORL was investing in him. He also played considerably worse in the games he played the next season before the ACL injury.

Also, Fultz stopped playing for the Sixers like 3 months before before he was traded to ORL--Sixers had already put him on the shelf after a few weeks that season and he missed almost 40 games for them before ORL traded for him. Beyond that I'm unclear why the Sixers would be motivated to make Fultz seem 'like a nutcase.' Seems like they had every reason to do the opposite--and indeed since he was such a distressed asset at the time they basically ended up dumping him for nothing (only dumb luck allowed them to get a 1st out of the deal) despite him being a 20 year recent super prospect.

There's also maybe the most pointed fact here: that the "Sixers" are totally different human beings now from in 2018--there's a new president, GM, CEO, and I'm pretty sure every one of their VPs are different too. So if you're saying there's a common strategy or pattern around managing player health, you're asking us to believe that it's emanating from the Sixers' logo and colors and not any actual people who make those decisions.

[bigbreakfast]

what simmons, and on a broader scale, klutch sports have done is absolutely bad for nba players and the nbapa. there's no way the owners are not going to use this and fight for contracts and terms that make it harder for players to get guaranteed money in the next cba.

This isn't bad for the union. Only stars have the ability to pull this kind of crap, and only a tiny handful of players are considered stars.

The owners aren't going to come out and say "we want to vastly reduce the amount of guaranteed money" because that's a pointless war to fight, and they don't care about situations where a team pays a guy $8m a year and he gets lazy and sucks. They care about superstars flexing their muscles, which means very little to the average player. The owners will try to target guys like Simmons, Kawhi, AD and Harden.

This either won't impact the nba 99% (the 99% of the.00001% lol) or will benefit them if the union can get something in exchange for sacrificing the superstars

I understand that the issues that relate to Simmons may not matter to the rank-and-file, but if the owners lock the players out, those rank-and-file guys who WILL NOT BE PAID during a lockout are not going to be happy that there is nothing in the account on the 1st and 15th because of FREAKING BEN SIMMONS. This isn't GIannis, Steph or KD who would be the poster boy for the lockout. It is BEN FREAKING SIMMONS.

If you think the ran-and-file will be cool with a lockout because of Ben Simmons, you are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I think they will be FURIOUS.

What? I don't think you understand how an union works, why would they sacrifice the superstar peers and how will the owners target the superstars specifically? The CBA applies to all players. The nbapa has to defend the interests of all players and providing ammunition for the owners is not something they want.

Good point about the lock out, there's also profit sharing involved in the cba.

[bigbreakfast]

So, sucking under pressure is now a mental illness? I wouldn't go that far. Anxiety, performance issues? I guess one could generalize that as mental illness, but then 80% of the country suffers from mental illness. Most still go to work.

I’m a big supporter of player empowerment and awareness for mental health issues in this country, but I’m having a hard time finding sympathy for Ben. I’m sure he has some anxiety about playing for the Sixers but it’s a situation he’s caused.

If a guy cheats on his wife, and then texts her that he wants a divorce and is seeing someone else, and then also refuses to answer her calls for the next several weeks, he would have created an unpleasant situation. I’m sure this theoretical guy would indeed have anxiety about having to see his ex-wife face to face again too. That doesn’t mean he gets to claim the thought of having to face his ex is causing mental illness.

There’s a difference between having some anxiety about being in an uncomfortable position and having true mental illness.

Again though, this is assuming this issue is just about the Sixers. It's possible he may have an actual mental illness this situation has just exacerbated.

If you're already struggling with something having you employer publicly shame you to millions of people may make that worse.

To be clear, I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't have been confronted about his poor play. I'm saying that, if there were already mental health struggles prior to all this, the way things went down may have made whatever was going on a lot worse.

the term mental health has been reduced and diluted from a clinical term that carries with it the weight of experience and knowledge of professionals into something that now carries with it very little meaning... having a bad day is now a mental health issue... apparently being an ass and getting called out on it is a mental health issue

so many posters here throw that term like they personally made a diagnosis on Simmons... while he's living the young socialite life and posting for millions of followers on social media.... real struggles that guy's going through

[devmil]

Right, that's kind of what I'm saying. There is nothing else to go off of. All we have is the Sixers saying, " We asked him for stuff and he didn't give it to us." Along with assumptions as to what they're asking for. We really don't know what they're asking for or what Simmons has given them. Pretty much all of the reports we have to go off of have been from the Sixers. It just sounds like there could be a lot we don't know.

Seems pretty clear to me, he's not sharing anything other than he's not mentally ready to play. Which, by the way, is not an actual mental illness last I checked.

No, but it can definitely be a symptom of an actual mental illness he may not feel comfortable sharing.

My understanding is that he doesn't need to share any specifics of his mental problems. All he needs is a doctor note saying he's under treatment and the treatment while confidential will require unspecified number of days depending on the progress which they will be willing to share with an impartial third party. Is this so hard?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

There's no weak part here, using this kind of arguments for a guy on a 170m contract drives me nuts.
What I am saying is that we should support people whose life can be ruined and that can't defend themselves.
People who can't talk about their problems, that would lose everything without their job.
People who than can be forced by the stronger part to give up their right and that are not in position to negotiate a fair treatment.
The Simmons-76ers relationship is nothing like that, Simmons has all the means necessary to defend his rights in an arbitration, if he decides so.

You are aware that you can do both, right? The arguments I'm using in this thread do not preclude me from supporting people whose lives can be ruined by their employers. If anything, I believe that doing both is the only way to be ideologically consistent. If I changed what I believe in because Simmons happens to be a handsomely paid athlete and I suddenly decided to side with the ownership then, frankly, I'd be full of ****.

I told you what I believe, weak parts should be protected, not the Ben Simmons of the world, they can do it themselves.
I am not siding with anybody without checking the facts, and I totally reject your claim that Simmons is a weak part the way a minimum wage worker is with his employer.

Actually, recently we've seen more star players bully the teams (Leonard, Harden, Davis) who were actually the weaker part not in position to really defend their rights.

These poor, defenseless billionaires [/quote]
You are making this dumb comments about defenseless people in this business. I am objectively seeing people taking advantage of their position and refusing to do what they signed (and they are handsomely paid) for.
When a team will really bully a player I will comment differently, but it's definitely not this case.

If this was the truth, he would have flagged it earlier as the reason why he couldn't come back. The moment it comes after demanding a trade, the holdout, the halfassed return after the fine, the suspension and the fake back pain this story holds little credibility.

There's no if here. It is the truth. Do you really think that the NBPA would allow Simmons or any other athlete to use them in a lie like that? If Simmons had lied about using NBPA mental health help since the summer then the NBPA would have already denied it. They didn't deny it which means that he has been using NBPA mental health help since the summer.

To be clear, I believe he might have been seeking help during the summer, what I don't believe is that's something that doesn't allow him to play.

And it's your right to believe whatever you want. Just stop presenting it as a fact.[/quote]
I'll tell you something, there are very few undisputable facts here for us, unless we really have some serious first hand info.
There are a number of data points and the rest is to be interpolated using our judgement.
What nobody has been disputing is that the first time Simmons mentioned mental health as the reason why he didn't want to come back was a few weeks ago. That's for me enough to not give him any credibility. You seems to think differently, whatever, we disagree.

One last point that is very important: in countries with an advanced welfare state (that is not necessarily the US) companies are not paying people who are sick, being it for mental or physical reason, as they don't pay women in pregnancy.
The State is, with the taxes collected. This for good reason, to avoid that people "at risk" would be discriminated at the point of selection.
Most likely, NBA teams have insurances covering them in those cases.
It's hard for me to believe that someone thinks an insurance would not demand clear proof about someone's state and therapies before paying out anything.
And if it's instead it's a public insurance system (like in most of western Europe) me as a citizen would DEMAND that proper controls were in place before my tax money would be directed there. Especially when someone with Simmons's contract is involved.
And unfortunately I have seen plenty of people trying to game the system (really a lot), controls are necessary to protect those one who really need help.

[BostonCouchGM]

Huh? Fultz barely played for the Sixers precisely because they tried to be extra careful with him. I am not sure what the Sixers did wrong here. For what it's worth, Fultz and his shooting form hasnt really recoverd from that "injury" to this day so Orlando's medical team hasnt faired any better. I get why Fultz did what he did (he was trying to save his career), but i dont see how Fultz trying to find a doctor to give him a diagnosis (TOS) that was virtually impossible to verify reflects badly on the Sixers medical team. His shooting form is still terrible and its been some years since he moved away from the Sixers medical team. In any case, i dont see how Fultz is in any way relevant here.

Fultz is very relevant, in my opinion, because his situation gives us insight into how the Sixers operate as a franchise and how they use their medical team to get the spin they want with the media. The Sixers tried to portray Fultz as a nutcase. They tried to say that he was "just scared to shoot". The media ate that **** up and then sold this spin to NBA fans who kept calling Fultz a nutcase, a mental midget and all that good stuff. I was here when it happened so I remember what was told quite vividly. It's not all that different from the slurs that people direct now at Simmons. Some people are very happy and very ready to attack players at the behest of big corporations.

Orlando's medical team verified that Fultz's injury was indeed serious when they traded for him. So, his missed that season and then returned the next where he produced fairly well. Not All-Star level production, of course, but good starter level production. Pretty good for a "mental midget nutcase who's afraid to shoot", huh?

His shooting numbers, by the way, were markedly better in Orlando. He shot 73% from the FT line (up from 47.6% in his rookie season and 56.8% in his sophomore season) and 41.6% from the mid-range (up from 25% in his rookie season and 24.4% in his sophomore season). Sure, the 3-point range isn't there yet but you can't say that these numbers aren't an improvement. So, Orlando's medical team definitely did the right thing here, unlike Philly's medical team. It just sucks that Fultz tore his ACL this January.

Simmons has been treated by the same medical team (which, bear in mind, has changed over the years) multiple times over these years and he never had an issue with them. It's reasonable to say that the team's medical team might not be completely impartial but Simmons shouldnt have any reason to mistrust them. Also, i dont see how the Sixers are discrediting the NBPA medical proffessional (who shouldnt be considered impartial either). The only issue at the moment is that the team has the right to know what Simmons is doing, whether he has been diagnosed with any mental illness and what are the steps and the timeline for his return and Simmons' side is not cooperating. The same thing that any team would do with any injured player somehow has become a matter of controversy and debate here.

Read my post again, please. I never said that the Sixers are discrediting the NBPA medical professional. I specifically said that it was the people in this thread and not the Sixers who are discrediting the NBPA medical professional. I tried to be very clear on that.

The excerpt was pretty clear. If the player is seeing a physician (psychiatrist or not) to get a diagnosis about an illness/injury then the team has the right to know what it's going on. i might add that it is pretty reeasonable for a player that is not able to provide his services for a medical reason to provide some proof for that and to be in contact with the team in the meantime. Again, this is a pretty standard and reasonable practice, i am not sure why the Sixers request is viewed as something extraordinary by some people here.

Unless we're not talking about a mental health related medical service which is exactly what is happening in this case. That's why I said that the excerpt was pretty murky. Because that exception under B seems to apply in this case.

NBA level athletes should never ever be compared with normal workers/employees since their bargaining power is orders of magnitude bigger, which is why they are getting these ridiculous salaries. No one is defending the owners here, but trying to compare NBA athletes, and stars at that, to normal people working 9-5 and claim that whatever agreement they negotiate with the owners will be relevant to and impact the working rights of normal people is indeed disingenuous.

I fully disagree with everything in that part of your post. There is a pretty clear employer-employee relationship between NBA teams and NBA players. The power dynamics aren't all that different from any other employer-employee relationship either. Owners typically make much, much more than players do. Owners profit off of the players' labor. Making millions does not erase all these dynamics. All it does is make them very handsomenly-paid employees. Still employees, though.

But Fultz WAS a nut case. No spin necessary

[Ryoga Hibiki]

What? I don't think you understand how an union works, why would they sacrifice the superstar peers and how will the owners target the superstars specifically? The CBA applies to all players. The nbapa has to defend the interests of all players and providing ammunition for the owners is not something they want.

Good point about the lock out, there's also profit sharing involved in the cba.

Unions work as long as there's unity in the objectives of all participants.
But the priorities for a max player are not the same as for a midlevel-to-starter player as they are not the same for a journeyman fighting to stay in the league. The NBPA is actually very diverse in his components.
The kind of protection Simmons is trying to enjoy right now really is for a few dozens out like 500 players.
And the majority of those 500 made little money (for NBA standards) in their career and might not be willing to sacrifice much to protect the stars.
It's like workers going on strike for the CEO's bonus, it doesn't happen.
If the owners make it in a way that it's clear only the top 5% could eventually get affected by a new clause I am not sure the majority would risk a lockout for it.

[Tomjas]

Sixers need to release a 30 for 30

Philly: **** off

Simmons: okay

Sixers: **** off

Simmons: okay

Sixers: but not until we tell you to **** off

Simmons: **** off

Embiid: what about me?

[Yoshun]

Seems pretty clear to me, he's not sharing anything other than he's not mentally ready to play. Which, by the way, is not an actual mental illness last I checked.

No, but it can definitely be a symptom of an actual mental illness he may not feel comfortable sharing.

My understanding is that he doesn't need to share any specifics of his mental problems. All he needs is a doctor note saying he's under treatment and the treatment while confidential will require unspecified number of days depending on the progress which they will be willing to share with an impartial third party. Is this so hard?

Ok, but your understanding based on what? They say "basic information," but what does that actually mean? You don't really know what they're actually asking for.

[Yoshun]

So, sucking under pressure is now a mental illness? I wouldn't go that far. Anxiety, performance issues? I guess one could generalize that as mental illness, but then 80% of the country suffers from mental illness. Most still go to work.

Again though, this is assuming this issue is just about the Sixers. It's possible he may have an actual mental illness this situation has just exacerbated.

If you're already struggling with something having you employer publicly shame you to millions of people may make that worse.

To be clear, I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't have been confronted about his poor play. I'm saying that, if there were already mental health struggles prior to all this, the way things went down may have made whatever was going on a lot worse.

the term mental health has been reduced and diluted from a clinical term that carries with it the weight of experience and knowledge of professionals into something that now carries with it very little meaning... having a bad day is now a mental health issue... apparently being an ass and getting called out on it is a mental health issue

so many posters here throw that term like they personally made a diagnosis on Simmons... while he's living the young socialite life and posting for millions of followers on social media.... real struggles that guy's going through

Your entire post is clearly made under the assumption that Simmons is living the high life and thus can't have mental health struggles. It's hard to argue with that kind of thinking because it's just not true.