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PG: KNICKS cool the Heat

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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#481 » by Polk377 » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:21 pm

stuporman wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
stuporman wrote:I still have some issues with Leon, he has had some major FA signing gaffs, shaky draft nights and bungled the Mitchell negotiations even though he's had some great FA signings, great draft selections and was shrewdly not going to let himself get bulldozed by Ainge or the expectation of Mitchell to NY for anything and everything. Both can be true at the same time.

Brunson has saved his job along with a few others in the FO and Thibs job, as well. There are so many in the Knicks org that should send Brunson flowers every week they still have their jobs.

Leon Rose should be in consideration for Executive of the Year. He was able to pivot away from the FA mistakes from last season and used draft night to clear cap space and add future 1sts that look very likely to net us another pick for this season from Washington. He then used that cap space and signed Brunson who is an absolute steal at his price and got Hartenstein to solidify backup C to Mitch. He was in conversations for Mitchell and instead of throwing the farm to get him, he stood pat and kept his players and assets. He then locked up 2 key pieces of this teams future in RJ and Mitch to reasonable contracts. At the deadline he got another steal of an acquisition by getting Hart for an out of the rotation player and what is now a near the end of the 1st pick. The team is playing well above expectations and competing for a top 4 spot in the East. All of this while maintaining the bulk of their assets and holding cap flexibility. Leon and Co need to be praised.


I said both can be true so why are you so adamant about defending him to someone who gave him some props. Let's not forget even though he did an amazing job in getting Hart who is a perfect fit for what the coach wants he also was the one who traded a first for Cam who was out of step with what the coach wants.

Two firsts for Hart isn't brilliant asset management, it's terrible asset management but at least he got the right guy in the end, so he gets props for that. Both are true. If he hadn't used a phony deadline and then extend RJ the Knicks could have had Mitchell for RJ, Grimes and two UP1sts if the reports are true.

As much as I like Grimes this would have been a sweet deal to wind up doing to get DMitch but he botched it by the extension and then Ainge wasn't about a resigned RJ and the price went back up to 3 UP1sts AND IQ/Obi not to mention what it would cost to get off Fournier in the deal.

Ultimately, the Cavs swooped in to give Ainge everything he wanted and he didn't call Rose back again, who was left surprised with a meatball in his mouth. He's been both good and bad as the POBO but without a doubt Brunson has covered all his mistakes with chocolate and sprinkles.

Now, how is Rose going to get the cherry on top? That will make him legend in NY or another oh so close but no cigar.

People have to stop with this Knicks traded a 1st for Cam nonsense. The pick was never going to convey. It was not a real 1st. It was 2 2nds and they got Brooklyn's 25 second round pick back in that deal so really 1 2nd. They then traded Cam with a 21-24 overall pick for a rotational upgrade. It was never 2 1sts and Cam for Hart!!!!!

As far as Mitchell goes, we don't know what the exact package was and we have no way of knowing if the trade would have worked out for us. Sometimes the trades you don't make end up benefitting the team more. Brunson and Mitchell could have ended up being a disaster of a backcourt and who knows if Brunson would have been able to step into the same leadership role if Mitchell was here.

Leon and Co just have to stay patient and find a creative way to use Fournier and Rose's contracts to net something positive while also locking up IQ for the future. The team is no longer a HR away. Get us 2 doubles and we are good.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#482 » by stuporman » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:30 pm

Polk377 wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Polk377 wrote:Leon Rose should be in consideration for Executive of the Year. He was able to pivot away from the FA mistakes from last season and used draft night to clear cap space and add future 1sts that look very likely to net us another pick for this season from Washington. He then used that cap space and signed Brunson who is an absolute steal at his price and got Hartenstein to solidify backup C to Mitch. He was in conversations for Mitchell and instead of throwing the farm to get him, he stood pat and kept his players and assets. He then locked up 2 key pieces of this teams future in RJ and Mitch to reasonable contracts. At the deadline he got another steal of an acquisition by getting Hart for an out of the rotation player and what is now a near the end of the 1st pick. The team is playing well above expectations and competing for a top 4 spot in the East. All of this while maintaining the bulk of their assets and holding cap flexibility. Leon and Co need to be praised.


I said both can be true so why are you so adamant about defending him to someone who gave him some props. Let's not forget even though he did an amazing job in getting Hart who is a perfect fit for what the coach wants he also was the one who traded a first for Cam who was out of step with what the coach wants.

Two firsts for Hart isn't brilliant asset management, it's terrible asset management but at least he got the right guy in the end, so he gets props for that. Both are true. If he hadn't used a phony deadline and then extend RJ the Knicks could have had Mitchell for RJ, Grimes and two UP1sts if the reports are true.

As much as I like Grimes this would have been a sweet deal to wind up doing to get DMitch but he botched it by the extension and then Ainge wasn't about a resigned RJ and the price went back up to 3 UP1sts AND IQ/Obi not to mention what it would cost to get off Fournier in the deal.

Ultimately, the Cavs swooped in to give Ainge everything he wanted and he didn't call Rose back again, who was left surprised with a meatball in his mouth. He's been both good and bad as the POBO but without a doubt Brunson has covered all his mistakes with chocolate and sprinkles.

Now, how is Rose going to get the cherry on top? That will make him legend in NY or another oh so close but no cigar.

People have to stop with this Knicks traded a 1st for Cam nonsense. The pick was never going to convey. It was not a real 1st. It was 2 2nds and they got Brooklyn's 25 second round pick back in that deal so really 1 2nd. They then traded Cam with a 21-24 overall pick for a rotational upgrade. It was never 2 1sts and Cam for Hart!!!!!

As far as Mitchell goes, we don't know what the exact package was and we have no way of knowing if the trade would have worked out for us. Sometimes the trades you don't make end up benefitting the team more. Brunson and Mitchell could have ended up being a disaster of a backcourt and who knows if Brunson would have been able to step into the same leadership role if Mitchell was here.

Leon and Co just have to stay patient and find a creative way to use Fournier and Rose's contracts to net something positive while also locking up IQ for the future. The team is no longer a HR away. Get us 2 doubles and we are good.


It was a first that went out and it still may be one or not once it finally conveys but we'll see how it shakes out, thems the facts. I know some people prefer alternative facts over real ones but this is the way it is.

We don't know how Brunson and Mitchell would have been as a back court, offensively or defensively, we may never know. We also don't know the full details of the offers and time table of the trade scenario and may never know it.

The things we do know about Rose's dealings is a mixed bag and we do know Brunson has covered up most of their mistakes. Do you deny that?
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#483 » by F N 11 » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:30 pm

Breaking JA Morant suspended 2 games for flashing gun on social media. Somebody get this man some advice.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#484 » by Guano » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:32 pm

cgmw wrote:
Guano wrote:
cgmw wrote:Ok so morning after sobriety—I love this team but I’m not ready to send an apology note to Leon or Dolan just yet.

Thibs has his guys playing Playoff intensity during every regular season game, which is great for the regular season but why will this be any different than We Here come playoff time? If Randle bobbles the ball out of bounds on that last play or if the shot missed the entire Knick universe is crying this morning about how we can’t close games and how bad that will be come Playoff time.

And let’s not act like the Heat aren’t a giant cautionary tale of treadmill mediocrity that kind of looks a lot like what Leon built. Jimmy-Bam-Herro vs. Brunson-Randle-RJ is a wash IMO. Solid players but no true championship #1.

Miami couldn’t trade for a legit alpha so they’re forced to acquire has-beens like Lowry/Love and take long shots on one-hit wonders like Duncan Hines. I hope Leon does better than Pat the Rat to improve his “Mid 3” core, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

For my sanity and so I don’t jump out any windows come playoff time, I’m just gonna go ahead and assume that this is just the same Thibs/Randle regular season trick we saw two seasons ago and that odds are the whole thing collapses in Rd 1.

Maybe I’m joyless, but that’s what I choose to believe until these F’ckers prove me wrong in the playoffs, when the games really matter. I better see black sneakers and bald heads for that Cavs series.



this is reasonable and will save you the heartache of when they eventually lose in the finals.

last time I was this hyped for a team was 99 and I want that rush of being all in so fck being reasonable.



also miami made the finals. so I don't think that is mid at all. though they're definitely are on the downward slope mostly because Jimmy is getting old.

So be excited. Love this team, but also adult-in-the-room caution:

1) Randle's track record is to sh*t the bed in the playoffs;
2) Brunson is already showing signs of the well-documented Thibs-Burnout effect;
3) Thibs' very established track record is to burn out his best players in the regular season so they're banged up and underperform in the post-season;
4) Leon's track record is to respond to a first-round exit with Kemba Walker & Evan Fournier.
5) Home court or not, Donovan Mitchell will be the best player on the court in that first-round series just like Trae Young was two years ago. Epic series incoming, but idk if we're the favorites quite yet.

But on the positive side, it seems clear that the expectation has gone from Play-In -> Playoffs -> First Round Exit -> Second Round difficult out. I don't see us beating Milwaukee, Boston, or Philly in a 7-game series, but I sure as sh*t would love to watch us try.


is adult-in-the-room caution a euphemism for traumatized knicks fan?

1) small sample size
2) season is long players get nicked up. we have a solid player in IQ to step up incase Brunson needs rest.
3) Thibs also lost to better teams in the playoffs. he can't be expected to turn water into wine.
4) I see no problem with the Fourni3r signing whatsoever
5) Brunson outplayed Donovan last year in their series no reason he can't do it again this year.
6) I get that it's easier to be cautious or whatever but ultimately this is entertainment and means nothing though we do invest a lot of time in it. but I'm going to have some fun considering we spend the majority of our time watching horrible basketball with lil to no hope.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#485 » by bearadonisdna » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:35 pm

F N 11 wrote:Breaking JA Morant suspended 2 games for flashing gun on social media. Somebody get this man some advice.


He trying to be a rapper and nba star.
He’ll get it eventually
Nba has conduct rules rappers don’t their bad behavior is lauded.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#486 » by Spree2Houston » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:40 pm

Ja Morant is like that dude from Malibu’s Most Wanted trying to be hood. But Morant ain’t about that life
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#487 » by bearadonisdna » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:42 pm

The Knicks might be looking at their 1st iteration of a contender .
Why? how?
1st off the starting lineup is elite.
You add a star here , you are likely to get worse production . Kinda wonky circumstance but let’s count the blessings .

2nd. Besides the starters , the team is currently playing at a league leading pace offensively .
Defensively is a mixed bag but there has been signs of elite production there as well.

3rd. Having 6moy caliber player helps theoretically when the ‘elite’ starters go out. Currently the team is maximized on the bench with having high level backups on fair or rookie scale contracts.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#488 » by Polk377 » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:46 pm

stuporman wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
stuporman wrote:
I said both can be true so why are you so adamant about defending him to someone who gave him some props. Let's not forget even though he did an amazing job in getting Hart who is a perfect fit for what the coach wants he also was the one who traded a first for Cam who was out of step with what the coach wants.

Two firsts for Hart isn't brilliant asset management, it's terrible asset management but at least he got the right guy in the end, so he gets props for that. Both are true. If he hadn't used a phony deadline and then extend RJ the Knicks could have had Mitchell for RJ, Grimes and two UP1sts if the reports are true.

As much as I like Grimes this would have been a sweet deal to wind up doing to get DMitch but he botched it by the extension and then Ainge wasn't about a resigned RJ and the price went back up to 3 UP1sts AND IQ/Obi not to mention what it would cost to get off Fournier in the deal.

Ultimately, the Cavs swooped in to give Ainge everything he wanted and he didn't call Rose back again, who was left surprised with a meatball in his mouth. He's been both good and bad as the POBO but without a doubt Brunson has covered all his mistakes with chocolate and sprinkles.

Now, how is Rose going to get the cherry on top? That will make him legend in NY or another oh so close but no cigar.

People have to stop with this Knicks traded a 1st for Cam nonsense. The pick was never going to convey. It was not a real 1st. It was 2 2nds and they got Brooklyn's 25 second round pick back in that deal so really 1 2nd. They then traded Cam with a 21-24 overall pick for a rotational upgrade. It was never 2 1sts and Cam for Hart!!!!!

As far as Mitchell goes, we don't know what the exact package was and we have no way of knowing if the trade would have worked out for us. Sometimes the trades you don't make end up benefitting the team more. Brunson and Mitchell could have ended up being a disaster of a backcourt and who knows if Brunson would have been able to step into the same leadership role if Mitchell was here.

Leon and Co just have to stay patient and find a creative way to use Fournier and Rose's contracts to net something positive while also locking up IQ for the future. The team is no longer a HR away. Get us 2 doubles and we are good.


It was a first that went out and it still may be one or not once it finally conveys but we'll see how it shakes out, thems the facts. I know some people prefer alternative facts over real ones but this is the way it is.

We don't know how Brunson and Mitchell would have been as a back court, offensively or defensively, we may never know. We also don't know the full details of the offers and time table of the trade scenario and may never know it.

The things we do know about Rose's dealings is a mixed bag and we do know Brunson has covered up most of their mistakes. Do you deny that?

I know I will not lose sleep if it conveys and it's a '25 #15+ pick.

So you are not going to give credit for Leon moving heaven and earth to get Brunson here in the 1st place go cover up their problems?
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#489 » by K_ick_God » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:49 pm

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Kind of like Trump with the Florida-New York switchability and the frontrunner status.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#490 » by robillionaire » Sat Mar 4, 2023 7:53 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:Elephant in room , no I’m not bash Mitch or grimes .
Crowd been pretty fair and I’m not judging based off Bluntson


Did you see anything interesting in the plus minus stats for the game I’m just curious
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#491 » by F N 11 » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:01 pm

robillionaire wrote:
bearadonisdna wrote:Elephant in room , no I’m not bash Mitch or grimes .
Crowd been pretty fair and I’m not judging based off Bluntson


Did you see anything interesting in the plus minus stats for the game I’m just curious

I was shocked to see Mitch was that bad. He seemed to guard Bam very well.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#492 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:09 pm

Reign23 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Stumbling and bumbling. I thought for sure that he was going to dribble it off his leg.


its just a different year for him man. I have seen nothing like it.

year 1 - really bad
year 2 - really really good
year 3 - horrible
year 4 - **** unbelievable!

I've never experienced such an up and down like his 4 seasons here. not even close.


And it was all summed up on this one play.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#493 » by F N 11 » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:11 pm

Somebody help me pull up IQ stats since Dec 1st. It has to be like 48 40 85
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#494 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:11 pm

Raja is on a roll. Everyone, just leave him alone and let him do his thing.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#495 » by TheGreenArrow » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:13 pm

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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#496 » by Polk377 » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:13 pm

F N 11 wrote:Breaking JA Morant suspended 2 games for flashing gun on social media. Somebody get this man some advice.

Chances are he beat up that kid as well and will face consequences for those actions too.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#497 » by Polk377 » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:14 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:
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Is that John Wallace or Kayden Randle? :lol:
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#498 » by bearadonisdna » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:15 pm

robillionaire wrote:
bearadonisdna wrote:Elephant in room , no I’m not bash Mitch or grimes .
Crowd been pretty fair and I’m not judging based off Bluntson


Did you see anything interesting in the plus minus stats for the game I’m just curious


Thanks for the softball pitch but I’m gonna pass
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#499 » by cgmw » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:18 pm

Guano wrote:
cgmw wrote:
Guano wrote:

this is reasonable and will save you the heartache of when they eventually lose in the finals.

last time I was this hyped for a team was 99 and I want that rush of being all in so fck being reasonable.



also miami made the finals. so I don't think that is mid at all. though they're definitely are on the downward slope mostly because Jimmy is getting old.

So be excited. Love this team, but also adult-in-the-room caution:

1) Randle's track record is to sh*t the bed in the playoffs;
2) Brunson is already showing signs of the well-documented Thibs-Burnout effect;
3) Thibs' very established track record is to burn out his best players in the regular season so they're banged up and underperform in the post-season;
4) Leon's track record is to respond to a first-round exit with Kemba Walker & Evan Fournier.
5) Home court or not, Donovan Mitchell will be the best player on the court in that first-round series just like Trae Young was two years ago. Epic series incoming, but idk if we're the favorites quite yet.

But on the positive side, it seems clear that the expectation has gone from Play-In -> Playoffs -> First Round Exit -> Second Round difficult out. I don't see us beating Milwaukee, Boston, or Philly in a 7-game series, but I sure as sh*t would love to watch us try.


is adult-in-the-room caution a euphemism for traumatized knicks fan?

1) small sample size
2) season is long players get nicked up. we have a solid player in IQ to step up incase Brunson needs rest.
3) Thibs also lost to better teams in the playoffs. he can't be expected to turn water into wine.
4) I see no problem with the Fourni3r signing whatsoever
5) Brunson outplayed Donovan last year in their series no reason he can't do it again this year.
6) I get that it's easier to be cautious or whatever but ultimately this is entertainment and means nothing though we do invest a lot of time in it. but I'm going to have some fun considering we spend the majority of our time watching horrible basketball with lil to no hope.

PTKFD for sure, but also 30+ years of watching closely makes it harder to pull the wool over my eyes with Leon taking shortcuts and Thibs running a regular-season iso, iso, and more iso offense. So much to be excited about, but the warning signs are also there.

I for one won’t throw a tantrum when the high-usage, short rotation, regular-season iso offense + lack of top-end talent is exposed by Allen, Mobley, and Okongwu collapsing the paint. Nor will I be surprised if/when Leon whiffs on a godfather trade and pulls another fugaze Kemba-Fournier off-season PR stunt.

Beyond post-traumatic Knick fan disorder, I personally have been frustrated for decades at the squandered opportunity to make the Knicks an annual powerhouse based on our unparalleled fanbase, home court, and brand. These jokers want a parade for making the first round when we should have had multiple championships by now.

That said, I hear you. Life is short and we are all certainly entertained. The IQ-Hart-Squared bench mob in particular has me enjoying games like I haven’t since Clinton was in White House.
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Re: PG: KNICKS cool the Heat 

Post#500 » by bearadonisdna » Sat Mar 4, 2023 8:21 pm

Bucks current starting lineup : +4.6
Boston current starting lineup : -15.3
Cavs current starting lineup : +2.3
Philly current starting lineup : +7.9
Knicks starting lineup : +10.3

(In points per 100 possessions)

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