Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space?

[queridiculo]

I doubt there's more of a chance that Carter would mope than Arenas would. Arenas is going to have to adjust to being second banana - something he's never had to do. He is no longer going to be the man controlling the offense. We don't know how his ego is going to react to that.

I seriously doubt that, and given the fact that you have followed Arenas career first hand over the years I have hard time believing that you actually give credence to what you just wrote.

[AceDegenerate]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... -60-1.html

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If you are in some way related to Gil, for the record I want him to remain a Wizard, KZ. I am not mad at him at all. I thought the Gun Dance was funny, and that is why every single player in the picture from Jamison to Oberto is smiling.

Gil is a good guy and a very good basketball player, who I hope does some day come close to dropping 60 again.

[Ruzious]

I doubt there's more of a chance that Carter would mope than Arenas would. Arenas is going to have to adjust to being second banana - something he's never had to do. He is no longer going to be the man controlling the offense. We don't know how his ego is going to react to that.

I seriously doubt that, and given the fact that you have followed Arenas career first hand over the years I have hard time believing that you actually give credence to what you just wrote.

So why is there an assumption that Carter would be some kind of cancer - as compared to Arenas being the ideal team guy?

[Rafael122]

All this trade Gilbert talk has me really nervous. The casual Wizards fan would take Vince over Gilbert regardless of what Gilbert has done for this franchise. Why? Because people still buy into the Vinsanity hype, half-man, half-amazing. People still think that Vince Carter is the same Vince Carter from 10 years ago.

[Induveca]

I am going to keep at this, but the Wizards should NOT trade away Arenas. With the drafting of John Wall, and the return of Arenas who was playing at a high level before his suspension........we immediately have a dominant backcourt if the two gel together.

Dumping Arenas for cap space, with the expectation of scoring a major coup in free agency is foolish. After watching teams gut their roster for "cap flexibility" for the past 3 years with the hopes of signing a Wade or James seems quite foolish at this point for anyone other than Miami.

With all that space, who did Chicago settle for? Boozer......at about the same salary as Arenas. New York? Stoudemire......about the same salary as Arenas. The list goes on.

I strongly contend that the risk of retaining Arenas is far far less than holding out hope of the only other free agent in the next year who we have a 1% chance of obtaining (Carmelo Anthony).

Cap space flexibility is great, but if you miss your mark (in our case Anthony), you end up with at best two second tier, serviceable players. In Arenas, we already have a player capable of playing at a superstar level, the man put up 42 points and 15 assists for us last year while still trying to get into game shape. While many on this board search for cap space and flexibility, in hope of signing a "game changer"........I don't understand why they can't see we already have that player!

For those of you celebrating Blatche's surge, you have forgiven his arrests, late night outings, love of prostitutes etc. Forgive Arenas as well.....then realize we have two major stars on our roster TODAY. If Blatche develops quickly, it could well be 3....THIS YEAR. I'll pass on waiting and begging for Carmelo Anthony. No way in hell we sign him. Vince Carter for a year and then MAYBE a john salmons type player when we miss on Carmelo Anthony? What a joke.....keep Arenas. He's a once every 10 year talent for a franchise.

[Kanyewest]

The Wizards didn't quit on EJ. They just sucked; Philly did though. I think no one is advocating let's go back to good old days with EJ; it's just that Flip hasn't really been an upgrade over EJ to this point. I've thought for better or worse that he's EJ 2.0 especially since past players in Detroit have said that he doesn't focus enough energy on the defensive end. Flip also sticked to short rotations and he also tended to play the vets 40+ minutes rather than utilizing a deep bench.

I would say that the other Eddie, Mr. Tapscott, reinforced bad habits, especially of Caron Butler. Butler became a chucker and Jamison too often settled for 3s rather than going into the post (well that's been Jamison's problem his entire career, he's a lost cause IMO and that's why he needed to go) . I think Butler and Jamison already had their flaws defensively. Let's not put their limitations entirely on Eddie Jordan. Jamison was one of the worst defensive players in the league before he came to Washington. Butler has always been known as a tweener. BTW, IMO Butler's defense became worse under Flip than under EJ; perhaps because Flip was hell bent into making Butler guard shooting guards.

I don't understand how this is a fluke for Flip Saunders. He clearly had MUCH MUCH better talent in Detroit- he inherited a starting lineup that had gone to two straight NBA Finals. Flip even lost tragically to LeBron James where he was really outcoached by all people, Mike Brown who did more than expected against the Pistons in 2006 season.

That being said, Saunders didn't have a full year to prove himself. Although if Arenas finished out the season, there's a good chance that Saunders get fired at the end of the season like Eddie Jordan. Although I find it interesting that the owner fired EJ, not the GM Ed Stefanski.

Um, Flip won an average of 59 games per season in Detroit. The Pistons never won more than 54 games under Larry Brown and 50 games under Rick Carslisle, two pretty good NBA coaches. Three straight trips to the EC Finals is nothing to sneeze at. You make it sound like Flip's Detroit teams were .500.

And yes, the Wizards quit on Eddie Jordan.

No they didn't. Scouts have constantly said that the Wizards were putting out the effort for Eddie Jordan and it is pretty easy to see when a team quits on his coach. EJ even played someone like Javale McGee who played more MPG under EJ than Tapscott. Although his refusal to play Blatche consistent minutes is indefensible. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As for Flip having more regular season wins than Larry Brown, no one cares especially since Larry Brown only got Rasheed Wallace in the 2nd half of the season, plus he developed Rip Hamilton into the catch and shoot player that he is today. Flip has lost two series where he had the better team on paper going into the series. I'm not saying that the Pistons were not a good team; they were a very good team. The fact is Flip Saunders inherited a starting 5 that was one game from winning a championship only to lose to two teams which the Pistons were supposed to beat in the postseason. Detroit easily had more talent than the Wizards. EJ's best chance to compete was the 06-07 season- however his best player went down with a season ending injury. Flip generally had his best players at full health and did not better than his predecessors.

[Kanyewest]

I think it's a pretty good bet that Carter will play hard in what is effectively a contract year for him.

Or Carter will sulk, force a buyout/trade and play better with a contender.

[LyricalRico]

^ I would expect the buyout to happen before the season even started. If Gil for Carter goes down, I bet VC sees exactly zero minutes in a Wiz uni.

[JWizmentality]

I'm getting a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

[Wizards2Lottery]

I was all for Gilbert being traded when everything went down initially. But he's given us such great memories that I really don't want to imagine this team without him. I would really really hate it if he was traded for a bum like Vince Carter.

[Hoopalotta]

I quickly scanned every post in the 10 page RealGM followup thread for mention of anyone else who had heard that radio report and there was absolutely nothing at all.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1038230

The guy who "reported" hearing it at Orlando magic zone has five posts.

How is there a radio report about this sort of thing and one person, who's a new poster, hears it? This is not the sort of thing that would get mentioned once at 6AM and then dropped.

I just don't see how this is anything but an insidious internets rumor.

[montestewart]

I quickly scanned every post in the 10 page RealGM followup thread for mention of anyone else who had heard that radio report and there was absolutely nothing at all.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1038230

The guy who "reported" hearing it at Orlando magic zone has five posts.

How is there a radio report about this sort of thing and one person, who's a new poster, hears it? This is not the sort of thing that would get mentioned once at 6AM and then dropped.

I just don't see how this is anything but an insidious internets rumor.

Full speed ahead,
to the Baseless Rumors thread?

[Benjammin]

I quickly scanned every post in the 10 page RealGM followup thread for mention of anyone else who had heard that radio report and there was absolutely nothing at all.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1038230

The guy who "reported" hearing it at Orlando magic zone has five posts.

How is there a radio report about this sort of thing and one person, who's a new poster, hears it? This is not the sort of thing that would get mentioned once at 6AM and then dropped.

I just don't see how this is anything but an insidious internets rumor.

I agree Hoopalotta that his "report" is likely bogus. The "insider" report from wizardsextreme is more "credible", if one can use that word. I think it's unlikely to happen because the Magic wouldn't pull the trigger on the deal, along with Uncle Ted maybe being willing to give Gil a chance to play with Wall and see how it goes. But it makes for good conversation, with compelling arguments on both sides.

[Hoopalotta]

But it makes for good conversation, with compelling arguments on both sides.

That's true, but for the sake of J-Wiz's stomach pit, I figured I'd needle the soap bubble.

I think the majority of the advocates and detractors of a Gil trade are at a disconnect based on arguing from entirely different views in their evaluations of what sort of thing constitutes a tangible advantage.

[Benjammin]

But it makes for good conversation, with compelling arguments on both sides.

That's true, but for the sake of J-Wiz's stomach pit, I figured I'd needle the soap bubble.

I think the majority of the advocates and detractors of a Gil trade are at a disconnect based on arguing from entirely different views in their evaluations of what sort of thing constitutes a tangible advantage.

That's probably true that there is a disconnect. I know for me that the emotional attachment to Gil makes evaluating the decision more difficult. For example, knowing everything we know right now about Gil and his recent years, should the Wizards sign Gil to a 4 year 80 million dollar contract, because that's what is left on his deal. Now we can argue that taking on a year of Vince Carter at 17.3 million plus a four million dollar buyout also needs to be put into the equation. Finally, some might argue if not Gil at this money, then who?

So fellow Wizards fans, would you sign Gil to a four year 80 million dollar contract if he were a free agent and everything else was identical?

[queridiculo]

I seriously doubt that, and given the fact that you have followed Arenas career first hand over the years I have hard time believing that you actually give credence to what you just wrote.

So why is there an assumption that Carter would be some kind of cancer - as compared to Arenas being the ideal team guy?

Carter is turning 34 in 6 months and is in the twilight of his career. He has lobbied to be traded to a winning franchise first with the Raptors and then again with the Nets. What precisely makes you think that anything about his desire to compete for a championship has changed?

[DCZards]

I am going to keep at this, but the Wizards should NOT trade away Arenas. With the drafting of John Wall, and the return of Arenas who was playing at a high level before his suspension........we immediately have a dominant backcourt if the two gel together.

Dumping Arenas for cap space, with the expectation of scoring a major coup in free agency is foolish. After watching teams gut their roster for "cap flexibility" for the past 3 years with the hopes of signing a Wade or James seems quite foolish at this point for anyone other than Miami.

I strongly contend that the risk of retaining Arenas is far far less than holding out hope of the only other free agent in the next year who we have a 1% chance of obtaining (Carmelo Anthony).

Cap space flexibility is great, but if you miss your mark (in our case Anthony), you end up with at best two second tier, serviceable players. In Arenas, we already have a player capable of playing at a superstar level, the man put up 42 points and 15 assists for us last year while still trying to get into game shape. While many on this board search for cap space and flexibility, in hope of signing a "game changer"........I don't understand why they can't see we already have that player!

It doesn't get more on target than this post.

[Ruzious]

I seriously doubt that, and given the fact that you have followed Arenas career first hand over the years I have hard time believing that you actually give credence to what you just wrote.

So why is there an assumption that Carter would be some kind of cancer - as compared to Arenas being the ideal team guy?

Carter is turning 34 in 6 months and is in the twilight of his career. He has lobbied to be traded to a winning franchise first with the Raptors and then again with the Nets. What precisely makes you think that anything about his desire to compete for a championship has changed?[/quote]
Last season's experience and especially... playing for a contract.

[Ruzious]

It's not 1 year of cap space; it's 3 years of cap space the Wiz would gain. It would take a lot of incompetence to not find good ways to use that space for 3 years.