Knicks-Cavs Official PG Thread

[Sark]

The fact that we're even in these games is a very good sign. Many teams struggle in the clutch. Let the team grow. These L's we're taking now may very well turn into W's once the schedule eases up. The fact that we were even in the game and looked better than them for a good portion of the game is a good thing to me

We haven't just been in the games. We've had leads, and at times big leads. When you consistently lose games with leads, it's usually a sign of weak coaching. Not drawing up a key play to get an easy score, blown defensive assignment, the wrong players on the court at the wrong time. All coaches screw up. However the good ones learn from their mistakes, and don't make the mistake again. Popovich got killed for losing that finals when he had Timmy on the bench at the end. He made sure to not repeat that mistake again.

I have yet to see Fisher learn from his mistakes. If and when he ever does, I am sure the calls for his head will slow down.

[Carl_Karlson]

I missed the 4th quarter. I met some girl and ended up hooking up with her. Came back and saw the 4th on DVR. Pisses me off how fish plays Thomas so much. I don't mind that he's a utilized role player but he gets too many clutch minutes. That lob he threw to KP was the shyts. Motherfuccer should be benched for that alone

[GONYK]

Spurs (55 Wins last year)
Bucks
Cavs x 2 (53 wins last year...Finals runner up...2nd best player in the World )
Hornets
Hawks (won 60 games last year)

Bucks and Hornets both playoff teams.

Why are people beside themselves? Maybe we just aren't that good?

Everything you posted is irrelevant

We actually notched wins against cleveland and san antonio last season - our worst season in franchise history. does that mean anything

instead of posting meaningless records, you have to actually watch and analyze games.

we choked away easily winnable games mainly because of fisher's incompetence. that is the fact of the matter and everything else is irrelevant. Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern. unfortnately, we are up to the "three times" part and this pattern is dangerous for the team and its future

also lol @ everyone confidently calling the bucks and hornets playoff teams now all of a sudden

lmao

You are completely ignoring that playoff and championship teams are that way because they are accustomed to coming through in those moments.

Analyze the game all you want, many contests come down to the last 4 minutes, and teams with experience will come through more often than not.

If you think that a 2nd year coach with 10 new players can consistently beat these experienced teams simply by replacing Lance Thomas, you're wildly underestimating the other teams.

I'll grant that the teams like the Bucks and the Hornets are on our level, and we could look at those games closer. But losses to the Spurs and the Cavs of the league should be expected more often than not until our team gets more of a feel for each other.

[Clyde_Style]

I noticed that as well, although I would say if those guys took those shots and missed, the narrative woulld have been as to why Melo isnt taking over a late game like LeBron was.

I'm all for players taking good/open shots but unless called upon, that's the stars moment normally. but the cast should be ready when called.

People can say what they want. They probably would have missed but those are shots KP especially ultimately needs to take. That makes Melo's job easier, make or miss. The fact that he recognizes this and is vocalizing it is huge, imo.

Idk fam, in the clutch I expect the stars to be such. Doesnt mean the cast get no chances, but the team is deferring because thats their role. They know it. But they dont defer to him nearly as much as some are making it to be, his usage is one of his lowest in his entire career.

Oan, I really have a hard time understanding this "making a players job easier". Melo has no issue getting his normally shots and looks regardless of cast of players around him and teams arent doubling or triple covering him in the clutch. His performance in such times is 100% on him. I will credit him for being vocal on the issue, I do question whether it is an issue.

Melo looked great in the first half last night. His stroke was the best its been and he was really snapping the net.

During one sequence he and KP and Gallo were all hitting and it looked like they were about to roll the Cavs. Didn't happen, but you can see the possibility of chemistry and Melo clicking with a solid starter's unit WHILE also doing his thing.

I do believe Melo's stamina and how it impacts his late game performance will remain an issue for now though. Until he either gets a higher stamina level or Fisher plays him less before the 4th quarter, the team is going to have to be more dynamic offensively late in the game, because present-day Melo is only occasionally going to carry this team to victory in the 4th quarter.

You could say we need a better offensive game plan and you could also say our PG options are not elite, but either way Melo as the lone gun in the last 4 minutes of the game won't be enough. We could, however, win more games with him being one late game option combined by KP and whomever has the stroke that night like Gallo. And this was handled terribly last night by Fisher.

[Thugger HBC]

Having leads against teams better than you is a sign of overachieving, which might be a sign of something Fisher IS doing well.

Even though there are many coaches I'd rather have over Fisher, I cant say that he is holding this team back from anything of capability.....they play very competitive for him and if these guys were doing it all on their own chances are they wouln't BE knicks and their former teams would have retained them.

Plenty of subpar teams have led games against better opponents, but those better opponents find ways to win....thats why they are better.

I actually think fans think this current group should be 10-0 and Fisher has prevented that.

[Clyde_Style]

Having leads against teams better than you is a sign of overachieving, which might be a sign of something Fisher IS doing well.

Even though there are many coaches I'd rather have over Fisher, I cant say that he is holding this team back from anything of capability.....they play very competitive for him and if these guys were doing it all on their own chances are they wouln't BE knicks and their former teams would have retained them.

Plenty of subpar teams have led games against better opponents, but those better opponents find ways to win....thats why they are better.

I actually think fans think this current group should be 10-0 and Fisher has prevented that.

That's absolutely correct. Any coach that has this team at anything besides 10-0 right now should be fired.

[Thugger HBC]

People can say what they want. They probably would have missed but those are shots KP especially ultimately needs to take. That makes Melo's job easier, make or miss. The fact that he recognizes this and is vocalizing it is huge, imo.

Idk fam, in the clutch I expect the stars to be such. Doesnt mean the cast get no chances, but the team is deferring because thats their role. They know it. But they dont defer to him nearly as much as some are making it to be, his usage is one of his lowest in his entire career.

Oan, I really have a hard time understanding this "making a players job easier". Melo has no issue getting his normally shots and looks regardless of cast of players around him and teams arent doubling or triple covering him in the clutch. His performance in such times is 100% on him. I will credit him for being vocal on the issue, I do question whether it is an issue.

Melo looked great in the first half last night. His stroke was the best its been and he was really snapping the net.

During one sequence he and KP and Gallo were all hitting and it looked like they were about to roll the Cavs. Didn't happen, but you can see the possibility of chemistry and Melo clicking with a solid starter's unit WHILE also doing his thing.

I do believe Melo's stamina and how it impacts his late game performance will remain an issue for now though. Until he either gets a higher stamina level or Fisher plays him less before the 4th quarter, the team is going to have to be more dynamic offensively late in the game, because present-day Melo is only occasionally going to carry this team to victory in the 4th quarter.

You could say we need a better offensive game plan and you could also say our PG options are not elite, but either way Melo as the lone gun in the last 4 minutes of the game won't be enough. We could, however, win more games with him being one late game option combined by KP and whomever has the stroke that night like Gallo. And this was handled terribly last night by Fisher.

Not to disregard your entire post, but the clutch is where stars are supposed to deliver. Melo isnt playing the entire 4th, and when he comes in the expectation is to perform and do so in a good way. Hasnt happened in years. The supporting cast has little to do with that.

[IAmTheBest]

Spurs (55 Wins last year)
Bucks
Cavs x 2 (53 wins last year...Finals runner up...2nd best player in the World )
Hornets
Hawks (won 60 games last year)

Bucks and Hornets both playoff teams.

Why are people beside themselves? Maybe we just aren't that good?

Everything you posted is irrelevant

We actually notched wins against cleveland and san antonio last season - our worst season in franchise history. does that mean anything

instead of posting meaningless records, you have to actually watch and analyze games.

we choked away easily winnable games mainly because of fisher's incompetence. that is the fact of the matter and everything else is irrelevant. Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern. unfortnately, we are up to the "three times" part and this pattern is dangerous for the team and its future

also lol @ everyone confidently calling the bucks and hornets playoff teams now all of a sudden

lmao

You are completely ignoring that playoff and championship teams are that way because they are accustomed to coming through in those moments.

Analyze the game all you want, many contests come down to the last 4 minutes, and teams with experience will come through more often than not.

If you think that a 2nd year coach with 10 new players can consistently beat these experienced teams simply by replacing Lance Thomas, you're wildly underestimating the other teams.

I'll grant that the teams like the Bucks and the Hornets are on our level, and we could look at those games closer. But losses to the Spurs and the Cavs of the league should be expected more often than not until our team gets more of a feel for each other.

I'm not ignoring anything lol

contenders are not invincible. we have beaten those same contenders last season even.

I understand that teams like the cavs and spurs are what they are because of 4th quarter performances. but that doesnt mean that we should lose to them just because of gross tactical competence.

against the cavs and spurs we have put up 12 and 14 point quarters and have put out lineups that were nowhere to be seen during the rest of the game, when we were playing at or above their level.

I do expect loses to the cavs and spurs more often than not. we should be 1-3 against the cavs, spurs, and hawks, not 0-4. I'm being generous here because we were in phenomenal position to go 2-2 if it werent for **** coaching.

my problem is not just with the games against the contenders. we are being outcoached against non-contenders too. stop acting like our problems only exist against the cavs and spurs, because they dont.

[BBALLER4FR]

We won't make the playoffs if Fisher remains as stubborn as he's been lately. For everyone touting 4-6 as progress they are negating that the 2 games vs. Cleveland we should have won. To make the playoffs you need to compete against teams of equal talent, get a little lucky against superior teams and win games you're suppose to win. No Kyrie or Shump last night and JR missing plus Love and LeBron stinking up the first game were games we looked superior in initially and piss poor coaching unraveled us. We squandered gimme's. That is unforgivable for any coach. Taking your foot off the gas pedal like FIsher does, D'Antoni did and Larry Brown did is far worse than just being a bad or inexperienced coach, It's a slap in the face to a battered fanbase.

[Thugger HBC]

I just find raggin on Fisher for the team losing to teams that have world champs on it is rather odd. So unless you think this team is a championship caliber, what are you personally expecting?

Being competitive against such clubs is more than solid from this squad, and as much as I don't like Fisher as a coach that is a great thing in his favor.

This squad is not a better coach away from being on their opponents level.

[StephNYKurry]

Everything you posted is irrelevant

We actually notched wins against cleveland and san antonio last season - our worst season in franchise history. does that mean anything

instead of posting meaningless records, you have to actually watch and analyze games.

we choked away easily winnable games mainly because of fisher's incompetence. that is the fact of the matter and everything else is irrelevant. Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern. unfortnately, we are up to the "three times" part and this pattern is dangerous for the team and its future

also lol @ everyone confidently calling the bucks and hornets playoff teams now all of a sudden

lmao

You are completely ignoring that playoff and championship teams are that way because they are accustomed to coming through in those moments.

Analyze the game all you want, many contests come down to the last 4 minutes, and teams with experience will come through more often than not.

If you think that a 2nd year coach with 10 new players can consistently beat these experienced teams simply by replacing Lance Thomas, you're wildly underestimating the other teams.

I'll grant that the teams like the Bucks and the Hornets are on our level, and we could look at those games closer. But losses to the Spurs and the Cavs of the league should be expected more often than not until our team gets more of a feel for each other.

I'm not ignoring anything lol

contenders are not invincible. we have beaten those same contenders last season even.

I understand that teams like the cavs and spurs are what they are because of 4th quarter performances. but that doesnt mean that we should lose to them just because of gross tactical competence.

against the cavs and spurs we have put up 12 and 14 point quarters and have put out lineups that were nowhere to be seen during the rest of the game, when we were playing at or above their level.

I do expect loses to the cavs and spurs more often than not. we should be 1-3 against the cavs, spurs, and hawks, not 0-4. I'm being generous here because we were in phenomenal position to go 2-2 if it werent for **** coaching.

my problem is not just with the games against the contenders. we are being outcoached against non-contenders too. stop acting like our problems only exist against the cavs and spurs, because they dont.

It's Saturday dog, you gotta chill

[IAmTheBest]

You are completely ignoring that playoff and championship teams are that way because they are accustomed to coming through in those moments.

Analyze the game all you want, many contests come down to the last 4 minutes, and teams with experience will come through more often than not.

If you think that a 2nd year coach with 10 new players can consistently beat these experienced teams simply by replacing Lance Thomas, you're wildly underestimating the other teams.

I'll grant that the teams like the Bucks and the Hornets are on our level, and we could look at those games closer. But losses to the Spurs and the Cavs of the league should be expected more often than not until our team gets more of a feel for each other.

I'm not ignoring anything lol

contenders are not invincible. we have beaten those same contenders last season even.

I understand that teams like the cavs and spurs are what they are because of 4th quarter performances. but that doesnt mean that we should lose to them just because of gross tactical competence.

against the cavs and spurs we have put up 12 and 14 point quarters and have put out lineups that were nowhere to be seen during the rest of the game, when we were playing at or above their level.

I do expect loses to the cavs and spurs more often than not. we should be 1-3 against the cavs, spurs, and hawks, not 0-4. I'm being generous here because we were in phenomenal position to go 2-2 if it werent for **** coaching.

my problem is not just with the games against the contenders. we are being outcoached against non-contenders too. stop acting like our problems only exist against the cavs and spurs, because they dont.

It's Saturday dog, you gotta chill

have you even watched the games?

[StephNYKurry]

I'm not ignoring anything lol

contenders are not invincible. we have beaten those same contenders last season even.

I understand that teams like the cavs and spurs are what they are because of 4th quarter performances. but that doesnt mean that we should lose to them just because of gross tactical competence.

against the cavs and spurs we have put up 12 and 14 point quarters and have put out lineups that were nowhere to be seen during the rest of the game, when we were playing at or above their level.

I do expect loses to the cavs and spurs more often than not. we should be 1-3 against the cavs, spurs, and hawks, not 0-4. I'm being generous here because we were in phenomenal position to go 2-2 if it werent for **** coaching.

my problem is not just with the games against the contenders. we are being outcoached against non-contenders too. stop acting like our problems only exist against the cavs and spurs, because they dont.

It's Saturday dog, you gotta chill

have you even watched the games?

None of em...just here talkin bs

[Clyde_Style]

Idk fam, in the clutch I expect the stars to be such. Doesnt mean the cast get no chances, but the team is deferring because thats their role. They know it. But they dont defer to him nearly as much as some are making it to be, his usage is one of his lowest in his entire career.

Oan, I really have a hard time understanding this "making a players job easier". Melo has no issue getting his normally shots and looks regardless of cast of players around him and teams arent doubling or triple covering him in the clutch. His performance in such times is 100% on him. I will credit him for being vocal on the issue, I do question whether it is an issue.

Melo looked great in the first half last night. His stroke was the best its been and he was really snapping the net.

During one sequence he and KP and Gallo were all hitting and it looked like they were about to roll the Cavs. Didn't happen, but you can see the possibility of chemistry and Melo clicking with a solid starter's unit WHILE also doing his thing.

I do believe Melo's stamina and how it impacts his late game performance will remain an issue for now though. Until he either gets a higher stamina level or Fisher plays him less before the 4th quarter, the team is going to have to be more dynamic offensively late in the game, because present-day Melo is only occasionally going to carry this team to victory in the 4th quarter.

You could say we need a better offensive game plan and you could also say our PG options are not elite, but either way Melo as the lone gun in the last 4 minutes of the game won't be enough. We could, however, win more games with him being one late game option combined by KP and whomever has the stroke that night like Gallo. And this was handled terribly last night by Fisher.

Not to disregard your entire post, but the clutch is where stars are supposed to deliver. Melo isnt playing the entire 4th, and when he comes in the expectation is to perform and do so in a good way. Hasnt happened in years. The supporting cast has little to do with that.

I'm trying to be pro-active here, not make excuses for Melo. If this is our situation for four more years, I sure hope there is a solution to helping him succeed late in the game and I'm keyed in on his stamina, because I've seen time and again how quickly he tails off later in games. If he can't deliver in crunch time, then why is he held in such high esteem then?

If it is not conditioning, then his mental game is weak and he doesn't do well under pressure. I mean I know that is partly the case because he is still doing his knucklehead diva act when he doesn't get calls and we get beat because he'd rather pout than get back on defense. That is surely a sign of mental weakness.

I was trying to be positive and see into a better way of working with him, but if it is purely mental then we will have little expectation of him ever being a late game force with any consistency. Perhaps this is really why he is so erratic and cannot put together a complete game and only looks great in spurts because he just can't stay focused the whole game.

We surely won't contend with Melo if he can't sustain his concentration for a full game.

[GONYK]

I just find raggin on Fisher for the team losing to teams that have world champs on it is rather odd. So unless you think this team is a championship caliber, what are you personally expecting?

Being competitive against such clubs is more than solid from this squad, and as much as I don't like Fisher as a coach that is a great thing in his favor.

This squad is not a better coach away from being on their opponents level.

Totally agreed. I'd almost say he's overachieving relative to the competition.

He's not perfect, but neither is his personnel.

[NYKat]

The fact that we're even in these games is a very good sign. Many teams struggle in the clutch. Let the team grow. These L's we're taking now may very well turn into W's once the schedule eases up. The fact that we were even in the game and looked better than them for a good portion of the game is a good thing to me

Exactly.

What the fire fisher crew fails to realize is that learning how to close out games does not happen automatically. You could throw any lineup out there and they still have to learn how to close out games.

even the most talented teams need experience to learn how to perfect late game execution, and our team is not super talented or all that experienced playing together.

It's a process.

Frankly, I think our late game execution is way ahead of where it should be at this point, we're playing teams that have experience playing together and are far more talented than we are. The fact that we've been in every game so far, is a real positive.

Two months from now, we'll be winning games like this consistently.

[BBALLER4FR]

I just find raggin on Fisher for the team losing to teams that have world champs on it is rather odd. So unless you think this team is a championship caliber, what are you personally expecting?

Being competitive against such clubs is more than solid from this squad, and as much as I don't like Fisher as a coach that is a great think in his favor.

This squad is not a better coach away from being on their opponents level.

Being competitive against such clubs at full strength is something to hang your hat on. Giving games away to such teams first when they're stinking up the joint with 3 key players missing, then at home when you throw **** rotations out giving up your lead in the 4th makes us worse than mediocre. It means we'll have to overachieve against average teams since the above omissions made the Cavs an average team. We can't play at full strength and fight for our lives to overcome flawed teams and so far this season the Cavs have looked extremely beatable.

[iAdoreeKnicks]

We lost when refs didn't call a foul on the Cavs when Porzingis got the offensive rebound which lead to a And 1 for Lebron on the other end. 5 Point swing.

[NYKat]

The fact that we're even in these games is a very good sign. Many teams struggle in the clutch. Let the team grow. These L's we're taking now may very well turn into W's once the schedule eases up. The fact that we were even in the game and looked better than them for a good portion of the game is a good thing to me

We haven't just been in the games. We've had leads, and at times big leads. When you consistently lose games with leads, it's usually a sign of weak coaching. Not drawing up a key play to get an easy score, blown defensive assignment, the wrong players on the court at the wrong time. All coaches screw up. However the good ones learn from their mistakes, and don't make the mistake again. Popovich got killed for losing that finals when he had Timmy on the bench at the end. He made sure to not repeat that mistake again.

I have yet to see Fisher learn from his mistakes. If and when he ever does, I am sure the calls for his head will slow down.

All due respect this is an ignorant post. We are playing teams that have experience closing out games in the postseason.

It's way too soon to expect us to be able to have perfected our late game execution against teams that already have, regardless of whether we have a lead or not.

It's Monday morning quarterbacking to blames the rotations on the coach. Whoever we throw out there during crunch time does not have the experience paying together to beat a Cavs team that went to finals for gods sake.

[Thugger HBC]

I just find raggin on Fisher for the team losing to teams that have world champs on it is rather odd. So unless you think this team is a championship caliber, what are you personally expecting?

Being competitive against such clubs is more than solid from this squad, and as much as I don't like Fisher as a coach that is a great thing in his favor.

This squad is not a better coach away from being on their opponents level.

Totally agreed. I'd almost say he's overachieving relative to the competition.

He's not perfect, but neither is his personnel.

Yep, I could see if this squad had a secondary all-star on it like the Cavs do with Kevin Love. Fisher has done some head scratching maneuvers, but I also believe that Fisher is why these guys are even IN position to be able to lose such close games.

This team isnt competitive despite him, they are partly because of him. Not bad for this group.