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Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was?

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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#501 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:34 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
xAIRNESSx wrote:I always find it interesting how so many feel that picks, tanking and cap space are a panacea to fix all our problems.


You cannot beat the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything you dream it is. Or that you feel entiteld to.

There's a few people that are realistic picks being currency, but that's the exception to the rule.

It's the absence of a strategy more than a strategy.

It's completely detached from the reality that if you're bad enough to statistically "compete" for a top 3 pick, the only thing you're guaranteeing is to be bad for a long time with no clear path out, especially in time for it to be worth the while of a top pick in the first place.


You're kind of proving the point with the top 3 pick thing. It's statistically most likely that if we fnished 8th last (for example) we pick 9th.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#502 » by brownbobcat » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:18 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
xAIRNESSx wrote:I always find it interesting how so many feel that picks, tanking and cap space are a panacea to fix all our problems.


You cannot beat the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything you dream it is. Or that you feel entiteld to.

There's a few people that are realistic picks being currency, but that's the exception to the rule.

The mystery box is only a bad idea when you're choosing the unknown over something worthwhile and known. 75% of the way through this season, some people have a very clear idea of what this team is and it's not unreasonable to want to discard some pieces for a lottery pick.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#503 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:20 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
xAIRNESSx wrote:I always find it interesting how so many feel that picks, tanking and cap space are a panacea to fix all our problems.


You cannot beat the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything you dream it is. Or that you feel entiteld to.

There's a few people that are realistic picks being currency, but that's the exception to the rule.

The mystery box is only a bad idea when you're choosing the known over something worthwhile and known. 75% of the way through this season, some people have a very clear idea of what this team is and it's not unreasonable to want to discard some pieces for a lottery pick.


Sorry but I don't think some people have any correct/clear idea at all. I know they think they do.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#504 » by brownbobcat » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:41 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
You cannot beat the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything you dream it is. Or that you feel entiteld to.

There's a few people that are realistic picks being currency, but that's the exception to the rule.

The mystery box is only a bad idea when you're choosing the known over something worthwhile and known. 75% of the way through this season, some people have a very clear idea of what this team is and it's not unreasonable to want to discard some pieces for a lottery pick.


Sorry but I don't think some people have any correct/clear idea at all. I know they think they do.

:roll: Oh, I guess these first 60 games were just a figment of their imagination and the team isn't fighting for a play-in spot.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#505 » by xAIRNESSx » Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:16 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
xAIRNESSx wrote:I always find it interesting how so many feel that picks, tanking and cap space are a panacea to fix all our problems.


You cannot beat the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything you dream it is. Or that you feel entiteld to.

There's a few people that are realistic picks being currency, but that's the exception to the rule.


Totally feels like that.

There's a vocal group that feel you should never trade a first round pick unless it's for an allstar because every pick has the possibility of being a superstar.

You should continually tank until you actually get a superstar and never re-sign your players to market value.

It's just not very pragmatic based on past results and what the actual directives that GMs and Presidents have.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#506 » by Johnny Bball » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:19 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:The mystery box is only a bad idea when you're choosing the known over something worthwhile and known. 75% of the way through this season, some people have a very clear idea of what this team is and it's not unreasonable to want to discard some pieces for a lottery pick.


Sorry but I don't think some people have any correct/clear idea at all. I know they think they do.

:roll: Oh, I guess these first 60 games were just a figment of their imagination and the team isn't fighting for a play-in spot.


Yep. The refrain all year has been blow it up the core sucks. I don't think so. I can be patient and let it play out.

And... at this point...There's the very real fact that intentionally tanking right now might cost them their three unrestricted free agents, and a fourth which is the guy that might have demanded a trade. So if that's the path people want, they aren't getting it here...maybe temporarily find another franchise that's tanking that will apparently be fun to watch..like that clippers guy. (That's just a joke btw).
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#507 » by KrazyP » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:35 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:The mystery box is only a bad idea when you're choosing the known over something worthwhile and known. 75% of the way through this season, some people have a very clear idea of what this team is and it's not unreasonable to want to discard some pieces for a lottery pick.


Sorry but I don't think some people have any correct/clear idea at all. I know they think they do.

:roll: Oh, I guess these first 60 games were just a figment of their imagination and the team isn't fighting for a play-in spot.


There’s probably at least a dozen teams possibly in play-in territory. Were they all sellers at the deadline looking into cash in rotation players for draft picks?
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#508 » by DelAbbot » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:50 pm

ItsDanger wrote:Waiting for something lucky to happen? This is the strategy?

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KD becoming available after Kyrie left is as close to another Kawhi opportunity as any in the past 4 years.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#509 » by Snowwy » Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:44 am

Mr. Perfect wrote:It was and still is absolutely ridiculous. A guy like Plumlee got casually traded for a 2nd. Similar level player.

Ooof, tough one here. This is an all-time bad take.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#510 » by brownbobcat » Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:33 am

KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Sorry but I don't think some people have any correct/clear idea at all. I know they think they do.

:roll: Oh, I guess these first 60 games were just a figment of their imagination and the team isn't fighting for a play-in spot.


There’s probably at least a dozen teams possibly in play-in territory. Were they all sellers at the deadline looking into cash in rotation players for draft picks?

Why would anyone want to follow the same strategy as a losers like the Wizards, Bulls, Hawks, Wolves, etc? There's also the matter of this team's trajectory and the fact that they were actively trying to trade starters away for picks anyway.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#511 » by KrazyP » Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:07 am

brownbobcat wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote: :roll: Oh, I guess these first 60 games were just a figment of their imagination and the team isn't fighting for a play-in spot.


There’s probably at least a dozen teams possibly in play-in territory. Were they all sellers at the deadline looking into cash in rotation players for draft picks?

Why would anyone want to follow the same strategy as a losers like the Wizards, Bulls, Hawks, Wolves, etc? There's also the matter of this team's trajectory and the fact that they were actively trying to trade starters away for picks anyway.


I will ask the question again. Of the dozen teams in possible play-in territory, how many teams tried to actively get worse by trading rotation players for picks?
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#512 » by brownbobcat » Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:11 am

KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
There’s probably at least a dozen teams possibly in play-in territory. Were they all sellers at the deadline looking into cash in rotation players for draft picks?

Why would anyone want to follow the same strategy as a losers like the Wizards, Bulls, Hawks, Wolves, etc? There's also the matter of this team's trajectory and the fact that they were actively trying to trade starters away for picks anyway.


I will ask the question again. Of the dozen teams in possible play-in territory, how many teams tried to actively get worse by trading rotation players for picks?

Toronto, for one.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#513 » by KrazyP » Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:56 am

brownbobcat wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:Why would anyone want to follow the same strategy as a losers like the Wizards, Bulls, Hawks, Wolves, etc? There's also the matter of this team's trajectory and the fact that they were actively trying to trade starters away for picks anyway.


I will ask the question again. Of the dozen teams in possible play-in territory, how many teams tried to actively get worse by trading rotation players for picks?

Toronto, for one.


What are you even talking about?
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#514 » by Ell Curry » Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:01 am

Badonkadonk wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
xAIRNESSx wrote:I always find it interesting how so many feel that picks, tanking and cap space are a panacea to fix all our problems.


You cannot beat the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything you dream it is. Or that you feel entiteld to.

There's a few people that are realistic picks being currency, but that's the exception to the rule.

It's the absence of a strategy more than a strategy.

It's completely detached from the reality that if you're bad enough to statistically "compete" for a top 3 pick, the only thing you're guaranteeing is to be bad for a long time with no clear path out, especially in time for it to be worth the while of a top pick in the first place.


Yeah, I'm fine with the Poeltl trade if we aren't going to move Siakam (and weren't say offered Mikal Bridges for him before KD came on the market or whatever) because we probably aren't going to be a bottom 10 team with a guy putting up 25-8-6 (you can do it with a young player who's lazy on D like Lamelo or the Lebron Lakers if AD is the only other good player on the team and he misses half the games, and even if you moved Van Vleet we still have Scottie, Trent, OG and Precious who were all comfortable starters for the Lakers pre-deadline).

But we're very unlikely to make the 2nd round this year even if we sneak in, so I'm not sure why we didn't just take the best deal on the board for Van Vleet and OG (assuming he wants to explore free agency, if not you pay him 30M a year and he's always moveable) and then try to turn those assets or draft a PG or Combo Guard (Siakam, Barnes, Poeltl and a combo like Mitchell/Herro is probably just enough ballhandling/structure to survive this summer.

At some point we need an elite guard. I don't think the Poeltl deal hurts that a ton, since we needed to spend an asset on a center anyways at some point, but instead Masai seems to have bet on Poeltl being a pick and roll partner Van Vleet needs to be a top 30 player again like he was last year, and we get a 3rd guard in the draft this year I guess. If we do hit on that player in the mid-teens or can trade the pick for that guy, the team looks intriguing again. Not a lot of bad minutes in this rotation:

Poeltl 28- Achiuwa 20
Siakam 33 - Boucher 14
Barnes 33 - OG 15
OG 18 - Trent 30
VanVleet 32 - Guard16

and the guard takes Boucher's minutes some nights (Barnes gets the backup 4 minutes) if he's genuinely good, and at least 6'5 or so.

The championship upside isn't there unless Barnes becomes a top 20 player in the next couple years, but you're in a good place if a star comes on the market and the team will take 2026-2028-2030 unprotected picks and one of Van Vleet, Trent, OG or Siakam along with Koloko for that player, which feels like a competitive offer.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#515 » by Tha Cynic » Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:06 am

The Raptors gave up significantly more for Poeltl than what teams offered for Van Vleet lol. I think the Raptors got played here and could have had Poeltl for less.

But, Poeltl at least increases the positive outlook of this team going forward and the most important part of it is that we brought in a Scottie Barnes type of player - someone who is unselfish and plays more of a team game. That's always a positive. Let's get rid of the selfish players and bring in more guys with Barnes and Poeltl type of mindset on offense.

If you're a Scottie Barnes fan, I think these are the type of players you want to surround him with.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#516 » by brownbobcat » Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:13 am

KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
I will ask the question again. Of the dozen teams in possible play-in territory, how many teams tried to actively get worse by trading rotation players for picks?

Toronto, for one.


What are you even talking about?

Toronto tried to trade OG, FVV and GTJ - were you not aware?
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#517 » by billy_hoyle » Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:52 am

brownbobcat wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:Toronto, for one.


What are you even talking about?

Toronto tried to trade OG, FVV and GTJ - were you not aware?

We tried trading our rotation players so hard, we just filled out the paperwork wrong and ended up trading our 1st round pick instead. Makes sense.

Who won the championship last year? Did they make the playoffs the year before, or did they get knocked out in the play-in? I forget.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#518 » by Johnny Bball » Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:19 am

brownbobcat wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote: :roll: Oh, I guess these first 60 games were just a figment of their imagination and the team isn't fighting for a play-in spot.


There’s probably at least a dozen teams possibly in play-in territory. Were they all sellers at the deadline looking into cash in rotation players for draft picks?

Why would anyone want to follow the same strategy as a losers like the Wizards, Bulls, Hawks, Wolves, etc? There's also the matter of this team's trajectory and the fact that they were actively trying to trade starters away for picks anyway.


....If someone was going to overpay.

And you really have no idea who they tried to trade, and how hard they tried, you're guessing.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#519 » by Yallbecrazy » Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:44 pm

The draft this year sucks, that probably played a role into Masai and Bobby's decision making. They may have also liked someone or a couple guys they think may be available at #20 that wouldn't be much worse than those at #6.

Draft next year is also supposedly really poor as well. I doubt they are trading away a '24 1st if they think it's one of those drafts with 6 future all stars and another 5 or 6 above average starters in it.
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Re: Is it being understated just how ridiculous trading 2024 1st round pick was? 

Post#520 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:37 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
KrazyP wrote:
brownbobcat wrote:Toronto, for one.


What are you even talking about?

Toronto tried to trade OG, FVV and GTJ - were you not aware?


The disconnect here is that the question is "for picks" where the Raptors were seeking rotation/young players back AND picks.

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