Asik Interested In Chicago Return

[kingkirk]

Every team cares about the money.

I understand the bold statement, but why have your back up center being paid 8 million when you can trade that contract for 2 role players who can fill positions of need elsewhere?

Pay money, go over the cap accordingly, but do it wisely.

You just signed the best center in the game. Its the equivalent of the Heat having a quality SF starter on their books for 8 million and then signing Lebron James to a max deal.

The total player payment may (or may not) be indicative of a winning team, but use it wisely and distribute it accordingly.

If the right deal comes along, they will move Omer.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Omers per 36 scoring and rebounding is better than noahs. Noah is the better defender.

I'm not saying this loudly, but u get a little drop off in in center and noah is probably a better pf than boozer.

You realize that the pace of Chicago and Houston are light years different right? Not to mention you have a bunch of shooters in Houston and no rebounders. Every rebound is pretty much available for Omer lol Plus the pick and roll is playing 90% of the time and no one guards Omer.

Noah in that offense would probably avg 16ppg

[kingkirk]

You realize that the pace of Chicago and Houston are light years different right? Not to mention you have a bunch of shooters in Houston and no rebounders. Every rebound is pretty much available for Omer lol Plus the pick and roll is playing 90% of the time and no one guards Omer.

Noah in that offense would probably avg 16ppg

Nailed it, sir.

[mhsiao]

I don't think Houston doesn't care about the money. They may not care about the money this season since they only pay lin and Asik 5M a year. However next year it will be different story.

Lin and Asik is going to be 30M combine next season than you also have Howard and Harden whom are going to make 40M combine. You have 70M tied on 4 players, while there are 8 other spot to fill and Rocket have to fill the roster with good players to make Howard happy. Houston will be paying luxury tax without get into luxury tax in term of cap room.

[Viatical]

Rebounding analytics to follow.

[Viatical]

Omers per 36 scoring and rebounding is better than noahs. Noah is the better defender.

I'm not saying this loudly, but u get a little drop off in in center and noah is probably a better pf than boozer.

You realize that the pace of Chicago and Houston are light years different right? Not to mention you have a bunch of shooters in Houston and no rebounders. Every rebound is pretty much available for Omer lol Plus the pick and roll is playing 90% of the time and no one guards Omer.

Noah in that offense would probably avg 16ppg

The pace issue (i.e. the availability of far more rebounds due to more total possessions and more shots being taken) can be fixed pretty easily. All we do is look at TRB%, to see what percentage of boards a player is yanking down out of the possible rebounds on the court. And in that department, Asik was very respectable at 22 TRB% for the 2012-2013 regular season.

He wasn't as good as Carlos Boozer (27.2 TRB%), who for all of his defensive and offensive deficiencies, is an excellent rebounder. But he WAS right in the neighborhood of Joakim Noah, who posted a TRB% of 22.6--Noah tends to get his RPG stats inflated due to playing way more minutes than the other two. TRB% accounts for that, too.

So here's what we know:

1. Carlos Boozer yanks down more available rebounds than either player

2. Joakim Noah and Omer Asik yank down about the same percentage of available rebounds

3. Joakim Noah does this while playing alongside a great rebounder in Carlos Boozer

4. Omer Asik does this while playing in lineups where, for instance, Carlos Delfino (yes, 6'6" swingman Carlos Delfino) was playing power forward.


Here's what we don't know:

1. Given these advanced stats, would Omer Asik rebound just as well as Joakim Noah, while playing alongside a good rebounder like Carlos Boozer or even (from the Rockets perspective) Dwight Howard?

2. Our sample size of Omer Asik as a starter for the Bulls last season is pitifully small. Two games. And he averaged 10.5 rebounds across both. So...maybe? Or maybe not.


To summarize:

Pace? RPG stats? Not an issue when we go by TRB%. But how that TRB% can be affected by playing alongside good rebounders or bad ones, we can't really get a handle on. We have to just guess and theorize.

[coldfish]

Every team cares about the money.

I understand the bold statement, but why have your back up center being paid 8 million when you can trade that contract for 2 role players who can fill positions of need elsewhere?

Pay money, go over the cap accordingly, but do it wisely.

You just signed the best center in the game. Its the equivalent of the Heat having a quality SF starter on their books for 8 million and then signing Lebron James to a max deal.

The total player payment may (or may not) be indicative of a winning team, but use it wisely and distribute it accordingly.

If the right deal comes along, they will move Omer.

They don't care about the money.

You are right though that if a deal comes up to make them a better team, they will do it. That doesn't have anything to do with them trying to shed salary. They are under no pressure to deal Asik at this point outside of the normal pressure to put the best team possible on the court.

[Viatical]

I don't think Houston doesn't care about the money. They may not care about the money this season since they only pay lin and Asik 5M a year. However next year it will be different story.

Lin and Asik is going to be 30M combine next season than you also have Howard and Harden whom are going to make 40M combine. You have 70M tied on 4 players, while there are 8 other spot to fill and Rocket have to fill the roster with good players to make Howard happy. Houston will be paying luxury tax without get into luxury tax in term of cap room.

The Rockets aren't done making moves. Morey is looking to add another max contract player next summer, too, if desirable deals aren't out there this July for pieces like Lin and Asik.

Since they're looking to be a free agency player next year, too, this means they're unlikely to tie up long-term money in a mediocrity like Taj Gibson, or a good but overpaid player like Carlos Boozer.

Although (assuming the Bulls don't exercise their next to the last chance to amnesty him) Boozer on an expiring deal NEXT summer would draw a lot of interest from teams as a valuable trade chip, including teams like the Rockets.

Therefore, my opinion about this is that Asik-to-Chicago is off the table, at least by way of sending Boozer to Houston. The timing is wrong for the Bulls. This is all happening a year too early for them. Houston will want to move Asik at some point THIS season, while preserving their 2014 free agency nut if the Asik package can't itself land them another star. They simply don't want to do it when Asik's value is at its lowest. It will lead to a lot of tortuous speculation until the day he's finally moved, but the Bulls will be out of the mix the entire time regardless.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

What I don't understand is the role Morey is thinking Asik fills on their bench for that price. Dwight is going to be playing about 38 mins a game, and Asik can't play the 4. Does he play 10 minutes for 8 million a year? It's ridiculous.

But, but, but......

This is exactly what some on this board wanted GarPax to do. They wisely made the correct decision, IMHO.

Yeah, on all the blogs and boards I read, seemingly 75% of Bulls fans wanted to match Asik's offer sheet and just worry about trading him later.

Houston's situation is a little different, they're trying to trade Asik with 2 years left at $8.3 million each season. The Bulls would have been trading him with 2 years left, but the salaries would have been $5 million this season and $15 million next season.

The thing is, out of all the available free agents this summer and next, Howard was/is the absolute worst fit for the Rockets. There is absolutely no doubt that Howard is a better player than Asik, but Howard doesn't give a team anything different than Asik does.

Howard will score more points in the paint by setting up on the low block, but he's still not very good at it. It's not really necessary to double-team because his moves and finishing just aren't that good.

Of course the Rockets absolutely had to sign him when they got the chance, but now they have to trade Asik. Which is fine with me, I'm looking forward to see what the great Morey can get for him.

It's less about the "great" Morey than it's about Asik's actual value.

His trade value is one of the most anticipated details of this entire Dwight/Lakers/Rockets/Morey situation to me. I'm extremely curious.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

But, but, but......

This is exactly what some on this board wanted GarPax to do. They wisely made the correct decision, IMHO.

Yeah, on all the blogs and boards I read, seemingly 75% of Bulls fans wanted to match Asik's offer sheet and just worry about trading him later.

Houston's situation is a little different, they're trying to trade Asik with 2 years left at $8.3 million each season. The Bulls would have been trading him with 2 years left, but the salaries would have been $5 million this season and $15 million next season.

The thing is, out of all the available free agents this summer and next, Howard was/is the absolute worst fit for the Rockets. There is absolutely no doubt that Howard is a better player than Asik, but Howard doesn't give a team anything different than Asik does.

Howard will score more points in the paint by setting up on the low block, but he's still not very good at it. It's not really necessary to double-team because his moves and finishing just aren't that good.

Of course the Rockets absolutely had to sign him when they got the chance, but now they have to trade Asik. Which is fine with me, I'm looking forward to see what the great Morey can get for him.

It's less about the "great" Morey than it's about Asik's actual value.

His trade value is one of the most anticipated details of this entire Dwight/Lakers/Rockets/Morey situation to me. I'm extremely curious.

I as well. If Morey holds on to Lin and Asik this season - they will have a combined 29 million in actual cash owed to them in the last season of their deal. I wonder how much of a hindrance that will be - specifically in Lin's case.

In Asik's case you will have a player who goes back to playing 15 minutes per game, and see's his raw stats drop considerably. I wonder what that will do (if anything) to his trade value.

[patryk7754]

Boozer and a 1st for Asik and Greg Smith
Sign Nick Young or Foye

Rose/Kirk/Teague
Butler/Kirk/FA/Snell
Deng/Dunleavy/Snell
Noah/Taj
Asik/Smith

[supertruck97]

Lin and Asik is going to be 30M combine next season than you also have Howard and Harden whom are going to make 40M combine. You have 70M tied on 4 players, while there are 8 other spot to fill and Rocket have to fill the roster with good players to make Howard happy. Houston will be paying luxury tax without get into luxury tax in term of cap room.

Next year, in terms of cap, this is what the Rox will have on the books:

Harden: 14.7
Howard: 21
Asik: 8.4
Lin: 8.4
TJones: 1.6
Motie: 1.4
Parsons: 1
Smith: 1.1
Beverly: 1
Plus whatever the min for Garcia + Casspi, and whoever they sign this offseason.

That all adds up to around $60 mm. The fact that Lin & Asik will be get cashed out at $15mm each, means nothing, ESPECIALLY to Houston, since they will have already reaped the benefits of 2 years at $5mm/per (See; Time value of Money)


And why on earth would the Rox trade for Boozer? They turn Asik's 8.4 mm per year cap hit (20 mm cash payout over 2) into Boozer's ~$16mm per year cap hit and 32.1 mm cash payout?? DOuble the cap hit, and 1.5 times the cash payout to go from Asik to Boozer? Are you kidding???

[drivewayball]

The fun question becomes: IF you moved Boozer for Asik AND Noah for Aldridge, what would you think of that team compared to the present composition. Rose, Butler, Deng .... Asik and Aldridge? or .... Boozer and Noah? That is a darned interesting conversation.

[Jimmy Forums]

When did people start thinking Boozer was a legit candidate to land us Asik? I mean, come on. First off, there's roughly a $10 million difference in salary, and Boozer a) isn't all that good anymore, and b) doesn't fit that team very well. We can't just dump the guy we don't want for any guy who goes on the market that we do want.

If it's not Taj, it's nobody, and frankly, they'd be a lot better off with Ryan Anderson. As for Boozer, we're not gonna trade him. If we do, we'd surely be taking on some terrible contract. The best route with him is to trade for his replacement (LMA) and just amnesty Boozer for his cap space. The role players we sign will be better than the throw-ins we would get to trade him away.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

Every team cares about the money.

I understand the bold statement, but why have your back up center being paid 8 million when you can trade that contract for 2 role players who can fill positions of need elsewhere?

Pay money, go over the cap accordingly, but do it wisely.

You just signed the best center in the game. Its the equivalent of the Heat having a quality SF starter on their books for 8 million and then signing Lebron James to a max deal.

The total player payment may (or may not) be indicative of a winning team, but use it wisely and distribute it accordingly.

If the right deal comes along, they will move Omer.

They don't care about the money.

You are right though that if a deal comes up to make them a better team, they will do it. That doesn't have anything to do with them trying to shed salary. They are under no pressure to deal Asik at this point outside of the normal pressure to put the best team possible on the court.

I'm with KC on this one, even if they're willing to wildly spend--they'll do it appropriately at least. Theres no pressure to deal him but they should still be looking for a deal. That money that is tied up can go elsewhere. Asik as a backup C is more than a luxury when you have D12.

[Viatical]

When did people start thinking Boozer was a legit candidate to land us Asik? I mean, come on. First off, there's roughly a $10 million difference in salary, and Boozer a) isn't all that good anymore, and b) doesn't fit that team very well. We can't just dump the guy we don't want for any guy who goes on the market that we do want.

If it's not Taj, it's nobody, and frankly, they'd be a lot better off with Ryan Anderson. As for Boozer, we're not gonna trade him. If we do, we'd surely be taking on some terrible contract. The best route with him is to trade for his replacement (LMA) and just amnesty Boozer for his cap space. The role players we sign will be better than the throw-ins we would get to trade him away.

There are three-team deals that are technically possible, but that would assume that the GMs of the other two teams took stupid pills that morning and are super-interested in being the kinds of laughingstocks the Knicks were after trading for Bargnani. Regarding two-team trades, nobody wants Taj Gibson at the money he's making and the numbers he's producing in his limited role. That includes the Bulls. That includes the Rockets. So yeah, it's nobody.

[6_Rings]

let's not propose laughable trades involving Boozer. we're not Joe Dumars no?

[Viatical]

What was the best trade offer the Bulls ever got for Carlos Boozer?

Was Boozer for Pau Gasol ever seriously talked about, or was that just no more than what Derrick Rose asked for from Bulls management?

I think it's more at the "can't-even-get-Bargs-for-him" level at this point, TBH.

Maybe as an expiring next summer, he'll have some value again. Maybe.

[Jimmy Forums]

When did people start thinking Boozer was a legit candidate to land us Asik? I mean, come on. First off, there's roughly a $10 million difference in salary, and Boozer a) isn't all that good anymore, and b) doesn't fit that team very well. We can't just dump the guy we don't want for any guy who goes on the market that we do want.

If it's not Taj, it's nobody, and frankly, they'd be a lot better off with Ryan Anderson. As for Boozer, we're not gonna trade him. If we do, we'd surely be taking on some terrible contract. The best route with him is to trade for his replacement (LMA) and just amnesty Boozer for his cap space. The role players we sign will be better than the throw-ins we would get to trade him away.

There are three-team deals that are technically possible, but that would assume that the GMs of the other two teams took stupid pills that morning and are super-interested in being the kinds of laughingstocks the Knicks were after trading for Bargnani. Regarding two-team trades, nobody wants Taj Gibson at the money he's making and the numbers he's producing in his limited role. That includes the Bulls. So yeah, it's nobody.

To say that "nobody" wants Taj's rim-protecting, defensive versatility, mobility, finishing ability and team-first attitude for 4 years and never more than $9 million a year, especially to compare it to Bargnani's situation, is wrong. I'm willing to bet there's multiple teams who would welcome such a player.

[Saphir]

What was the best trade offer the Bulls ever got for Carlos Boozer?

I believe there were talks about Boozer for Humphries + Brooks that might have even been on the table.