Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[Braggins]

Are you really implying that it doesn't matter who is on our roster, we will have a great defense regardless? Our defense was terrible last season when we tried to get away with starting Marv/Al. We have to keep some defense in our rotation or our defense will suffer. It is silly to think otherwise.

I'm pointing out that our defense didn't suffer when Biz barely played in 2013-14, so it's not like he is a lynchpin for our defense. Even assuming our defense will slip, I don't mind our defense suffering some if we can stop having league worst offense every year.

We still need to have a couple guys in our second unit that can defend. We can't get away with Cody being the only frontcourt player that can play any defense at all. We need a SF who can play defense, but ideally shoot as well. Even if Biz is only getting 15 minutes a game that will be huge to keep the flood gates from opening against our second unit. You can't really think we can just completely throw defense out the window and play nothing but unathletic shooters at every position and get away with it. That will just result in us being mediocre to bad at both ends. We have to maintain elite defense and hope we can put together an average offense.

[JDR720]

every playoff team in the NBA last season besides the Celtics had least one above average defensive center. maybe Toronto how is Vals defense?

Plumlee
Mozgov
Horford
Noah
Gortat
John Henson
Val, maybe
Bogut
Dwight
Jordan
R. Lopez
M. Gasol
Duncan/Splitter
Chandler
Davis/Asik

10 or 24 mpg doesn't matter, thats still nearly 25% or 50% of the game.

[catch20two]

We need offense and Frank the Tank can help with that. I keep reading about Zeller and Biz defense but neither of them stopped us from being a bottom ranked defense when MKG was hurt. MKG is our defense and the rest is about having competitors out there.

Like Yosemite keep saying in different words, what good is having a great defense with the worst offense? We've been surrendering more points than we've scored for years. That's what has to change.

[yosemiteben]

I'm not making guesses about our rotation and I definitely think we should keep Biz. I just like having options and flexibility and don't see that as a negative. Biz is so limited offensively that I'm not willing to move a nice offensive big because he might block Biz's PT, especially coming off a season with the injury issues we just had and seeing our embarrassing offensive efficiency over the last half decade.

We upgraded our backup big options from Biz, Marv, Max, and a ridiculously young Vonleh to Biz, Hawes, and Kaminsky, while hinting that MKG could be flexed to PF depending on matchups. I like the offensive potential and flexibility those pieces offer.

[Braggins]

We need offense and Frank the Tank can help with that. I keep reading about Zeller and Biz defense but neither of them stopped us from being a bottom ranked defense when MKG was hurt. MKG is our defense and the rest is about having competitors out there.

Like Yosemite keep saying in different words, what good is having a great defense with the worst offense? We've been surrendering more points than we've scored for years. That's what has to change.

Our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al at the beginning of the season. MKG isn't superman. He needs some help. What is good about having a good offense and a bad defense, or a mediocre offense and defense?

[Cheeze]

Are you really implying that it doesn't matter who is on our roster, we will have a great defense regardless? Our defense was terrible last season when we tried to get away with starting Marv/Al. We have to keep some defense in our rotation or our defense will suffer. It is silly to think otherwise.

I'm pointing out that our defense didn't suffer when Biz barely played in 2013-14, so it's not like he is a lynchpin for our defense. Even assuming our defense will slip, I don't mind our defense suffering some if we can stop having league worst offense every year.

We still need to have a couple guys in our second unit that can defend. We can't get away with Cody being the only frontcourt player that can play any defense at all. We need a SF who can play defense, but ideally shoot as well. Even if Biz is only getting 15 minutes a game that will be huge to keep the flood gates from opening against our second unit. You can't really think we can just completely throw defense out the window and play nothing but unathletic shooters at every position and get away with it. That will just result in us being mediocre to bad at both ends.

Frontcourt defense is a real concern, like you said. That's why I hope the Hornets re-sign Biyombo or maybe take a shot at Brandon Wright or whatever. But Clifford is a defense-first coach and I think he'll find a way to make it work defensively.

I also think adding shooting and offense will pay dividends on the defensive side. An ability to score puts tremendous pressure on a defense, especially if you can score early in the shot clock. And it's on defense that the majority of energy is expended. Al and Hawes are obvious defensive liabilities. Cody and Frank will be fine. And they'll have Biyombo or Wright or whatever for situation substitutions.

[catch20two]

We need offense and Frank the Tank can help with that. I keep reading about Zeller and Biz defense but neither of them stopped us from being a bottom ranked defense when MKG was hurt. MKG is our defense and the rest is about having competitors out there.

Like Yosemite keep saying in different words, what good is having a great defense with the worst offense? We've been surrendering more points than we've scored for years. That's what has to change.

Our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al at the beginning of the season. MKG isn't superman. He needs some help. What is good about having a good offense and a bad defense, or a mediocre offense and defense?

I think I can pull up some numbers to disprove that our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al. Give me a sec.

[Braggins]

I'm not making guesses about our rotation and I definitely think we should keep Biz. I just like having options and flexibility and don't see that as a negative. Biz is so limited offensively that I'm not willing to move a nice offensive big because he might block Biz's PT, especially coming off a season with the injury issues we just had and seeing our embarrassing offensive efficiency over the last half decade.

We upgraded our backup big options from Biz, Marv, Max, and a ridiculously young Vonleh to Biz, Hawes, and Kaminsky, while hinting that MKG could be flexed to PF depending on matchups. I like the offensive potential and flexibility those pieces offer.

I agree about it being nice to have the options. However, we have a logjam in our frontcourt and still need a backup PG and backup SF and we only have no cap room and limited roster space. Either Hawes or Marvin needs to go. Hawes makes more sense to move imo because we desperately need Biz's rim protection in the second unit and we can always use Kaminsky at center in circumstances where we don't need Biz's rim protection. Kaminsky pretty much made Hawes obsolete. The fact that MKG and Batum can play some PF makes it even more prudent to move Hawes or Marv. Being able to keep Hawes might be nice, but something has to give.

[Braggins]

We need offense and Frank the Tank can help with that. I keep reading about Zeller and Biz defense but neither of them stopped us from being a bottom ranked defense when MKG was hurt. MKG is our defense and the rest is about having competitors out there.

Like Yosemite keep saying in different words, what good is having a great defense with the worst offense? We've been surrendering more points than we've scored for years. That's what has to change.

Our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al at the beginning of the season. MKG isn't superman. He needs some help. What is good about having a good offense and a bad defense, or a mediocre offense and defense?

I think I can pull up some numbers to disprove that our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al. Give me a sec.

"Sucked" may have been an exaggeration, but before Cody became the starter our defense was around 15th or middle of the road and we were regularly having teams score over 100 on us. Don't even act like all those massive late game defensive breakdowns with Marv and Al on the floor together didn't happen.

[SeanBobcats]

I'm beginning to believe Kaminsky is Al's replacement after this season if he performs decently. Adds a little sense to the pick I'd suppose. I actually do like a lineup of Kemba-Batum-MKG-Zeller-Kaminsky. Then of course the smaller lineup of Kemba-Lamb-MKG-Batum-Zeller. I'm beginning to have a little more faith in the Kaminsky pick, but only if we let Big Al go after this season or even earlier if possible.

[yosemiteben]

You say we need a backup SF then say Marv has to go. Don't get it.

[Braggins]

Edit: I misread our schedule. We gave up over 100 points in 12 of our first 18 games.

[Braggins]

You say we need a backup SF then say Marv has to go. Don't get it.

Marv isn't very good and is too slow to guard athletic SF's. There is a reason he was forced to become a "stretch 4".

[catch20two]

Our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al at the beginning of the season. MKG isn't superman. He needs some help. What is good about having a good offense and a bad defense, or a mediocre offense and defense?

I think I can pull up some numbers to disprove that our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al. Give me a sec.

"Sucked" may have been an exaggeration, but before Cody became the starter our defense was around 15th or middle of the road and we were regularly having teams score over 100 on us. Don't even act like all those massive late game defensive breakdowns with Marv and Al on the floor together didn't happen.

Nah nah nah. Looked it up and our defensive rating with Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Messy/Al was 95.9 in 116 minutes of play. But to be fair to your point if you swapped Hendo for Lance with that lineup they had a defensive rating of 111.2 that SUCKED playing 107 minutes together.

The 3-man lineup of MKG-Messy-Al had a 97.0 defensive rating in 455 total minutes together. I think that's pretty good. Their offensive rating was 99.1 so that mean they had a positive 2.1 net rating while on the floor together.

[catch20two]

You say we need a backup SF then say Marv has to go. Don't get it.

Marv isn't very good and is too slow to guard athletic SF's. There is a reason he was forced to become a "stretch 4".

Marv will be better as a backup hybrid forward where he can play SF or PF depending on the matchup. He's too slow for most SFs and too small for most PFs. It's a catch 22 with him and that's why he's not starter material in this league just like Thaddeus Young isn't. Marv is a tweener.

[Braggins]

I think I can pull up some numbers to disprove that our defense sucked with MKG healthy and Marv starting next to Al. Give me a sec.

"Sucked" may have been an exaggeration, but before Cody became the starter our defense was around 15th or middle of the road and we were regularly having teams score over 100 on us. Don't even act like all those massive late game defensive breakdowns with Marv and Al on the floor together didn't happen.

Nah nah nah. Looked it up and our defensive rating with Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Messy/Al was 95.9 in 116 minutes of play. But to be fair to your point if you swapped Hendo for Lance with that lineup they had a defensive rating of 111.2 that SUCKED playing 107 minutes together.

The 3-man lineup of MKG-Messy-Al had a 97.0 defensive rating in 455 total minutes together. I think that's pretty good. Their offensive rating was 99.1 so that mean they had a positive 2.1 net rating while on the floor together.

I'm just saying that our defense isn't invincible and we can't just put whatever we want on the court and get good results on that end. We gave up over 100 points in 12 of our first 18 games. If we try to get away with a bunch of shooters that can't defend then our defense absolutely will suffer.

[yosemiteben]

You say we need a backup SF then say Marv has to go. Don't get it.

Marv isn't very good and is too slow to guard athletic SF's. There is a reason he was forced to become a "stretch 4".

I think he's fine as a backup. I like Lamb, PJ, and Marv as backup wing options with Daniels available if he impresses / injuries require more options.

[Braggins]

You say we need a backup SF then say Marv has to go. Don't get it.

Marv isn't very good and is too slow to guard athletic SF's. There is a reason he was forced to become a "stretch 4".

Marv will be better as a backup hybrid forward where he can play SF or PF depending on the matchup. He's too slow for most SFs and too small for most PFs. It's a catch 22 with him and that's why he's not starter material in this league just like Thaddeus Young isn't. Marv is a tweener.

I'd rather keep Marv than Hawes due to his shorter contract and his ability to play SF and PF like you just mentioned. Also, I don't trust Clifford at all with Hawes on the roster. He will cut Biz right out of the rotation and try to play lineups like Mo, Lamb, Marv, Kaminsky, Hawes. Kaminksy gives us everything Hawes can and more (maybe not quite the rebounder?). We should definitely try to move Hawes imo if we aren't moving Al. Al would actually be my first choice to go and then Hawes would actually be a great center option.

[Braggins]

You say we need a backup SF then say Marv has to go. Don't get it.

Marv isn't very good and is too slow to guard athletic SF's. There is a reason he was forced to become a "stretch 4".

I think he's fine as a backup. I like Lamb, PJ, and Marv as backup wing options with Daniels available if he impresses / injuries require more options.

I like him as an option as well, but don't really feel comfortable with him as our immediate backup and PJ is too much of a wildcard at this point, although he certainly could be the answer there. I'd keep Marv over Hawes unless Al gets traded. Otherwise, I would keep both. I like Hawes a lot as a center option if Al isn't here. Either way I think we really need a backup PG and possibly an upgrade at backup SF (someone like Aflallo) and Hawes seems like the most logical person to part with.

[yosemiteben]

"Sucked" may have been an exaggeration, but before Cody became the starter our defense was around 15th or middle of the road and we were regularly having teams score over 100 on us.

So our terrible defense that you're lamenting was league average. This is the perspective that I find baffling. We've been like bottom five in offensive team stats for years.

We'll be fine defensively. It's been forever since we've been close to fine offensively