So far, what grade would you give Phil Jackson for this Free Agency?

[Capn'O]

Is it bad that I thought he meant the other Mitch and got heated?

[god shammgod]

iverson didn't win anything. that's a bad plan.

but you're right, amare becoming worthless has held up the knicks for years.

Iverson got to the finals. We have been to the finals what twice in the last 30 years? At this point you just want to be a good team before you become a great team.

If I told you 1 time in the next 3 years we are going to the finals you wouldn't sign up for that right now? Baby steps.

If we get to .500 or close to it this year that is progress. It should make us more attractive next year and banking on some of this young talent development which we never had.

melo needs help man. he's 30 now. iverson was like 25/26 went he went to the finals. by the time he was melo's age he was playing with melo.

[Rasho Brezec]

You could take all the draft picks Ainge hoarded from other teams right now. He was offering half of them for Kaminsky.

Melo ain't going to Boston.

If Melo plays well this year and we do decide its best to part ways you could have 4-5 teams he would be willing to go (both LA teams, miami, chicago, maybe even HOU). All those teams might see Melo at 24 million instead of giving someone like Batum or Horford close to 30 million a year a steal.

You don't know that. And if he doesn't, **** him.

[Moose]

No Trade Clause

I meant SnT before we gave him the max

Hindsight is 20/20, though. Every single person on this thread thought we'd be better than the 37 wins the year before.

But it's tough to look back and think that we could've netted Butler, Mirotic, and a pick.

Don't put us all into one group please.

I wanted to S&T Melo. Once it looked like he wouldn't take a discount at 20mill per, that was basically it for me.

That doesn't mean the S&T was realistically possible. We have no idea what the talks were like. Maybe the Bulls had no interest in giving up anyone. Maybe Melo wanted NY only in the end. But a S&T is what I wanted.

[god shammgod]

Is it bad that I thought he meant the other Mitch and got heated?

what other mitch ?

[Capn'O]

Is it bad that I thought he meant the other Mitch and got heated?

what other mitch ?

Money as opposed to Lawrence.

[god shammgod]

Is it bad that I thought he meant the other Mitch and got heated?

what other mitch ?

Money as opposed to Lawrence.

oh, i actually thought the same as you. he had that same overly earnest everything is gonna be great outlook. guy damn near predicted a championship.

[mpharris36]

iverson didn't win anything. that's a bad plan.

but you're right, amare becoming worthless has held up the knicks for years.

Iverson got to the finals. We have been to the finals what twice in the last 30 years? At this point you just want to be a good team before you become a great team.

If I told you 1 time in the next 3 years we are going to the finals you wouldn't sign up for that right now? Baby steps.

If we get to .500 or close to it this year that is progress. It should make us more attractive next year and banking on some of this young talent development which we never had.

melo needs help man. he's 30 now. iverson was like 25/26 went he went to the finals. by the time he was melo's age he was playing with melo.

I think you and I stated it before. Last year even playing banged up the knicks ranked like a top 10 offense playing with the likes of Dalembert, Larkin, Shumpert, JR, Acy...need I go on?

The dude is still a top 5-10 offensive talent in this game. He is that kind of specialist to take those bums to that much offensive success. He needs help in other ways. P&R defense, rebouding, knocking down open shots, leadership, thoughness. Our rosters were poorly put together outside of that 1 year where we got enough veteran leadship here that pushed our no good scrubs in JR and Felton to play there best ball of there careers.

Honest question when have we have had shooters like (calderon, afflalo, and if porzingis - if he turns out to be what we expect) surround melo.

Remember who melo was kicking it out too? Felton? JR? Shumpert? Chuckaway. The team i think is significantly better. And they seem to fit into the team basketball mode. Melo needs help he doesn't need to take 50% of his offense away. I think there is a difference.

[Thugger HBC]

iverson didn't win anything. that's a bad plan.

but you're right, amare becoming worthless has held up the knicks for years.

Iverson got to the finals. We have been to the finals what twice in the last 30 years? At this point you just want to be a good team before you become a great team.

If I told you 1 time in the next 3 years we are going to the finals you wouldn't sign up for that right now? Baby steps.

If we get to .500 or close to it this year that is progress. It should make us more attractive next year and banking on some of this young talent development which we never had.

melo needs help man. he's 30 now. iverson was like 25/26 went he went to the finals. by the time he was melo's age he was playing with melo.

Yeah, I'm reading the dialogue and really cant make a comparison. A.I. was 5 years in the league when he went to the finals...much younger than Melo, and there was really no one better than him individually in the entire conference at that time. Melo absolutely needs help.

[mpharris36]

You could take all the draft picks Ainge hoarded from other teams right now. He was offering half of them for Kaminsky.

Melo ain't going to Boston.

If Melo plays well this year and we do decide its best to part ways you could have 4-5 teams he would be willing to go (both LA teams, miami, chicago, maybe even HOU). All those teams might see Melo at 24 million instead of giving someone like Batum or Horford close to 30 million a year a steal.

You don't know that. And if he doesn't, **** him.

I guess I don't know that, but I think we are going to have a better record than Boston this year. Not saying much but why would Melo want to go there.

Honestly the only roster we aren't better than in the atlantic currently is probably Toronto in my eyes (assuming we have a healthy Melo).

[Deeeez Knicks]

You could take all the draft picks Ainge hoarded from other teams right now. He was offering half of them for Kaminsky.

Melo ain't going to Boston.

If Melo plays well this year and we do decide its best to part ways you could have 4-5 teams he would be willing to go (both LA teams, miami, chicago, maybe even HOU). All those teams might see Melo at 24 million instead of giving someone like Batum or Horford close to 30 million a year a steal.

Yeah, that would be the best time to trade Melo. Almost every team will have cap space so there could be a nice bidding war. His contract will be a good deal too.

No point in trading him now when we don't even have our pick.

[god shammgod]

Iverson got to the finals. We have been to the finals what twice in the last 30 years? At this point you just want to be a good team before you become a great team.

If I told you 1 time in the next 3 years we are going to the finals you wouldn't sign up for that right now? Baby steps.

If we get to .500 or close to it this year that is progress. It should make us more attractive next year and banking on some of this young talent development which we never had.

melo needs help man. he's 30 now. iverson was like 25/26 went he went to the finals. by the time he was melo's age he was playing with melo.

I think you and I stated it before. Last year even playing banged up the knicks ranked like a top 10 offense playing with the likes of Dalembert, Larkin, Shumpert, JR, Acy...need I go on?

The dude is still a top 5-10 offensive talent in this game. He is that kind of specialist to take those bums to that much offensive success. He needs help in other ways. P&R defense, rebouding, knocking down open shots, leadership, thoughness. Our rosters were poorly put together outside of that 1 year where we got enough veteran leadship here that pushed our no good scrubs in JR and Felton to play there best ball of there careers.

Honest question when have we have had shooters like (calderon, afflalo, and if porzingis - if he turns out to be what we expect) surround melo.

Remember who melo was kicking it out too? Felton? JR? Shumpert? Chuckaway. The team i think is significantly better. And they seem to fit into the team basketball mode. Melo needs help he doesn't need to take 50% of his offense away. I think there is a difference.

yeah. we were top 10. when he was in the game. he has to sit. they keep riding him like crazy because when he's not in the game the team is terrible. derek fisher learned quickly what woody knew. the team without melo on the floor couldn't score.

[mpharris36]

Yeah, I'm reading the dialogue and really cant make a comparison. A.I. was 5 years in the league when he went to the finals...much younger than Melo, and there was really no one better than him individually in the entire conference at that time. Melo absolutely needs help.

the comparison was both were elite offensive players that really were do it all types on offense. The big comparison is that Iverson's sixer teams didn't have 1/3 cap being eating up by a waste of space in amare. That is going to put a crimp in anyone plan to get Melo help.

Phil honestly distributed $$$ on players that should compliment Melo's game. So in theory we should see significant progress...no? All the funds were distributed on players that should be able to contribute positively in some kind of way. Correct?

Now what does significant progress mean, well that is up to each person. People are talking about we can't win a finals with Melo. There are a lot of players that can't win finals. CP3 and Blake might never win finals. Lot of great players that don't win chips.

Lets just try to get to .500 and make the playoffs this year. That is what I would call significant progress. Then you have more options next summer in FA.

[Rasho Brezec]

No point in worrying about picks we don't have instead of focusing on building the team. Draft picks from Ainge are definitely available and you won't get a better deal from any of the teams mentioned. So why give Melo an even bigger leverage of choosing where he wants to go by waiting for the sake of waiting? Teams know what he is. His value is not changing, just like cokehead's value was and is a constant.

[mpharris36]

yeah. we were top 10. when he was in the game. he has to sit. they keep riding him like crazy because when he's not in the game the team is terrible. derek fisher learned quickly what woody knew. the team without melo on the floor couldn't score.

and we probably will struggle with that a little this year as well since until Zinger steps into that role or Afflalo/Williams can give you bonus scoring. We saw Galloway have some nice scoring games as well but not sure you can count on a young kid to do that either.

But in the east if you say get to 40 or so wins (which isn't ridiculous with a healthy Melo). You can maybe attract that second option in FA.

I think a big thing is to have some of these young guys show some promise. Young cheap assets allow you to make trades as well.

Before we were so hamstrung by Amare, Tyson, and Bargs contracts and didn't have draft picks we really couldn't even make deals...It should be an exciting year not just to see more wins. But not just about wins, this is where we hope Phil and his staff got some of these young guys right with the picks and signings. Could be big for future moves.

[mpharris36]

No point in worrying about picks we don't have instead of focusing on building the team. Draft picks from Ainge are definitely available and you won't get a better deal from any of the teams mentioned. So why give Melo an even bigger leverage of choosing where he wants to go by waiting for the sake of waiting? Teams know what he is. His value is not changing, just like cokehead's value was and is a constant.

the no trade clause would suggest this is all talk. Because again do you honestly in your heart see him waiving it to go to possibly a worse team in Boston?

[Thugger HBC]

Yeah, I'm reading the dialogue and really cant make a comparison. A.I. was 5 years in the league when he went to the finals...much younger than Melo, and there was really no one better than him individually in the entire conference at that time. Melo absolutely needs help.

the comparison was both were elite offensive players that really were do it all types on offense. The big comparison is that Iverson's sixer teams didn't have 1/3 cap being eating up by a waste of space in amare. That is going to put a crimp in anyone plan to get Melo help.

The cap was different back then. If my memory serves me iverson wasnt even the highest paid on the team, I think Mutumbo made more. i get your point though.

Phil honestly distributed $$$ on players that should compliment Melo's game. So in theory we should see significant progress...no? All the funds were distributed on players that should be able to contribute positively in some kind of way. Correct?

I think Phil did OK, but he's taking some risks that I probably wouldnt have. Phil built a team that imo that has alot of role players on it, guys who arent at the stage in their careers where bigger roles can be handled, and are for the most part way too familiar faces.. maybe they are, I hope so, but looking at the roster and combining Melo likely will be out sometime during the season since every year he's been here has been...I dont see 30 wins from this group. Alot will have to go their way to get these wins, similar to how the 2012-13 team had alot going their way early on and late.

Now what does significant progress mean, well that is up to each person. People are talking about we can't win a finals with Melo. There are a lot of players that can't win finals. CP3 and Blake might never win finals. Lot of great players that don't win chips.

I'll put it like this...playoffs are a must. This team will be able to handle 3 straight lotto years...two in which they didnt have their own draft pick. Culture means nothing without wins, and without wins the only culture being developed is losing.

Lets just try to get to .500 and make the playoffs this year. That is what I would call significant progress. Then you have more options next summer in FA.

Agreed.

[Rasho Brezec]

No point in worrying about picks we don't have instead of focusing on building the team. Draft picks from Ainge are definitely available and you won't get a better deal from any of the teams mentioned. So why give Melo an even bigger leverage of choosing where he wants to go by waiting for the sake of waiting? Teams know what he is. His value is not changing, just like cokehead's value was and is a constant.

the no trade clause would suggest this is all talk. Because again do you honestly in your heart see him waiving it to go to possibly a worse team in Boston?

A team that everyone expected to be in the lotto and made the playoffs. They're better than us. We'll be lucky to reach 30 wins.

[K_ick_God]

No point in worrying about picks we don't have instead of focusing on building the team. Draft picks from Ainge are definitely available and you won't get a better deal from any of the teams mentioned. So why give Melo an even bigger leverage of choosing where he wants to go by waiting for the sake of waiting? Teams know what he is. His value is not changing, just like cokehead's value was and is a constant.

the no trade clause would suggest this is all talk. Because again do you honestly in your heart see him waiving it to go to possibly a worse team in Boston?

A team that everyone expected to be in the lotto and made the playoffs. They're better than us. We'll be lucky to reach 30 wins.

Boston is not that good. I'm not sure they even qualify as good.

[Obi-One]

Melo is not agreeing to a deal sending him to Boston. Get real dude