Trade Thread, Part 3: The Fun Continues

[keevsnick1]

So I fake-traded a bunch of our guys and picks for Capela. Here's what our 2021-2022 salary would look like if we signed Tatum to his max and re-upped Hayward to a team-friendly deal. Some Guy is tax MLE player.



Replace Theis and Wanamaker with Tacko and Tremont, tax bill would be around $26M-30M for a full roster. Tacko alone would generate that amount for the franchise lol.

EDIT: Don't really have strong opinions about acquiring Capela. Was just bored and wanted to see what the numbers would look like. Cs will also have enough salary to consolidate for Cave's kill shot.

So that 26-30 million dollar tax payment, does that account for the repeater tax? Because if the C's trade for Capella but keep Hayward and Smart its going to be very hard to avoid the tax next year. Without Capella its possible, especially if Hayward come back at a lower number. That would mean 21-22 is the first year the Celtics would have to pay the repeater tax.

[zoyathedestroya]

So I fake-traded a bunch of our guys and picks for Capela. Here's what our 2021-2022 salary would look like if we signed Tatum to his max and re-upped Hayward to a team-friendly deal. Some Guy is tax MLE player.

Spoiler:

Replace Theis and Wanamaker with Tacko and Tremont, tax bill would be around $26M-30M for a full roster. Tacko alone would generate that amount for the franchise lol.

EDIT: Don't really have strong opinions about acquiring Capela. Was just bored and wanted to see what the numbers would look like. Cs will also have enough salary to consolidate for Cave's kill shot.

So that 26-30 million dollar tax payment, does that account for the repeater tax? Because if the C's trade for Capella but keep Hayward and Smart its going to be very hard to avoid the tax next year. Without Capella its possible, especially if Hayward come back at a lower number. That would mean 21-22 is the first year the Celtics would have to pay the repeater tax.

I thought repeater tax gets triggered if a team is in tax 3 of the last 4 seasons. Could be wrong. Someone confirm.

In my scenario, Cs can avoid the tax next season (projected $134.8M) with some maneuvering even with Capela, Smart, and Hayward.

[CelticsLV]

So I fake-traded a bunch of our guys and picks for Capela. Here's what our 2021-2022 salary would look like if we signed Tatum to his max and re-upped Hayward to a team-friendly deal. Some Guy is tax MLE player.

Spoiler:

Replace Theis and Wanamaker with Tacko and Tremont, tax bill would be around $26M-30M for a full roster. Tacko alone would generate that amount for the franchise lol.

EDIT: Don't really have strong opinions about acquiring Capela. Was just bored and wanted to see what the numbers would look like. Cs will also have enough salary to consolidate for Cave's kill shot.

So that 26-30 million dollar tax payment, does that account for the repeater tax? Because if the C's trade for Capella but keep Hayward and Smart its going to be very hard to avoid the tax next year. Without Capella its possible, especially if Hayward come back at a lower number. That would mean 21-22 is the first year the Celtics would have to pay the repeater tax.

I thought repeater tax gets triggered if a team is in tax 3 of the last 4 seasons. Could be wrong. Someone confirm.

In my scenario, Cs can avoid the tax next season (projected $134.8M) with some maneuvering even with Capela, Smart, and Hayward.

Celtics were a tax team last season.

[zoyathedestroya]

So that 26-30 million dollar tax payment, does that account for the repeater tax? Because if the C's trade for Capella but keep Hayward and Smart its going to be very hard to avoid the tax next year. Without Capella its possible, especially if Hayward come back at a lower number. That would mean 21-22 is the first year the Celtics would have to pay the repeater tax.

I thought repeater tax gets triggered if a team is in tax 3 of the last 4 seasons. Could be wrong. Someone confirm.

In my scenario, Cs can avoid the tax next season (projected $134.8M) with some maneuvering even with Capela, Smart, and Hayward.

Celtics were a tax team last season.

Right. Anyway, I think we can avoid the tax next season depending on Hayward's number. Capela is highly unlikely anyway. I expect a smaller move this trade deadline, if at all.

[MagicBagley18]

doubtful that Danny makes a significant trade at the deadline. 33-15. The team is getting better. Still not healthy. Boston has a chance to make a deep playoff push as-is. If there is a smallish deal out there where Danny can add to the rotation without sacrificing much, then I can see him doing something like that. That's it.
Players like Gordon Hayward and Marcus Smart are FAR more valuable then a Clint Capela type in the modern NBA. That's just the way it is. It's why Houston is looking to trade Capela for wing help to begin with.

Capela pros: Rebounds, blocks shots, size, rim running & can finish on lobs.
Capela cons: poor FT shooting, cannot space the floor, clogs lane, not a crunch time player.

I don't see Capela being the guy that Danny goes hard for. Would go against everything Ainge has done in roster building over the past year. Plus, we have Robert Williams coming back. He gives us some of what Capela would...and Stevens will only use that style when he needs it which won't be too often because Theis/Kanter/Grant have held the fort down.

The goal is to keep smart and Hayward and add Capela not lose them for Capela. Also as high as I was on Williams to start the year- the reality is I can’t trust him to be here and be healthy on the court until he proves it and I’m afraid he may never do that. Also if you loved Williams play style and how he fit then you can’t know Capela because they are almost the same except Capela has been more proven.

[jirrit]

Ok, one last idea:

Hayward to ORL (as previously floated)
Fournier to MIN
Covington and Kanter to HOU
Mo Bamba and Romeo Langford to NOP
Brandon Ingram and Capela to BOS

Tough to get the salaries to work perfectly.. but something like that combines four separate recent rumors and - imho - is plausible for every team while upgrading us from Hayward to Ingram and Kanter to Capela..

Classic Andrew McCeltic

This is so unrealistic and impossible, why do you even bother lol.

[keevsnick1]

So I fake-traded a bunch of our guys and picks for Capela. Here's what our 2021-2022 salary would look like if we signed Tatum to his max and re-upped Hayward to a team-friendly deal. Some Guy is tax MLE player.

Spoiler:

Replace Theis and Wanamaker with Tacko and Tremont, tax bill would be around $26M-30M for a full roster. Tacko alone would generate that amount for the franchise lol.

EDIT: Don't really have strong opinions about acquiring Capela. Was just bored and wanted to see what the numbers would look like. Cs will also have enough salary to consolidate for Cave's kill shot.

So that 26-30 million dollar tax payment, does that account for the repeater tax? Because if the C's trade for Capella but keep Hayward and Smart its going to be very hard to avoid the tax next year. Without Capella its possible, especially if Hayward come back at a lower number. That would mean 21-22 is the first year the Celtics would have to pay the repeater tax.

I thought repeater tax gets triggered if a team is in tax 3 of the last 4 seasons. Could be wrong. Someone confirm.

In my scenario, Cs can avoid the tax next season (projected $134.8M) with some maneuvering even with Capela, Smart, and Hayward.

The Celtics were in the tax last year. Wont be this year. If they Bring in capela than its going to be pretty hard to avoid next year, and then Tatums extension kicks in and they almost certainly will be then. In that scenario Tatums first year extension (21-22) would be the first year in the repeater tax.

Now if they can avoid it next year the tax resets and it wont be a problem for a while. But with

34.4 Kemba
23.9 Brown
9.9 Tatum
13.5 Smart
16 Capela
6 Kanter

That would be around 103 million. Lets say you can get Hayward at 25 million (it may very well be more). Thats 128 million against a 140 tax for 7 guys. Basically to have a shot you'd have to dump everyone else and fill the roster out with minimums. Langford makes 3.6 million, the MEM pick currently would be 17th thats like another 3 million. It gets really tough.

Granted thats a pretty good top 7. And as you say, I think Capella is probably pretty unlikely.

[klemen4]

Imo if the cost in 3way is:
- one of Theis/Kanter
- Mil pick, Bos pick
- fillers like Poirier or Wanamaker or Semi.

We have to do it.

Probably that is not enought, than where you draw the line:
- Timelord
Or
- Langford
Or
- Mem pick

For a team like Minny in a 3 way if theu can get for Covington Mil pick, Bos pick, Timelord, fillers ...that's a very tempting offer imo.

Yes I know Capela is what we hope Timelord will become, but...

[MagicBagley18]

I tend to disbelieve pretty much everything Scal say with respect to how our front office feels. Ainge isnt going to give him anything other than positive reviews. Also, if we keep Smart and our wing trio next season, I cant imagine Langford’s value going up.

I also dont believe any of that regarding Poirier— our team is starved for big men depth with Kanter out and Poirier has barely played in non-garbage time. That pretty much says it all.

I disagree immensely on Drummond, too. He’s just not very good, IMO.

Scal also during the draft when we had 1st pick said danny loves Fultz, Fultz is the guy- he’s a superstar in the making, Boston loves him etc so he either is playing dumb and hiding everything or while having a close relationship and being friendly with management is true, they don’t give him real in depth info into their thought process (and they shouldn’t )

I don't think this is accurate at all. Ainge manipulates the media just like any good front office should. Ainge uses Scal, Gorman and Bulpett and some others to put out the spin he wants out there. It isn't about whether it is true or not that is relevant what is important is that this is the way Ainge is trying to spin the story.

That perceived commitment to Fultz is what caused PHI to trade up. Specifically to do it before the draft not after the pieces fell into place.

The perceived unwillingness to include Al Jefferson in the deal for KG helped Boston to hold on to Rondo and Perkins. Gorman was the man banging that drum.

Gorman was the guy putting it out there that the Nets picks were all in for Anthony Davis. He was also the first to say that Boston wouldn't be doing that type of deal anymore with Tatum and Brown already delivering.

Scal and Mike essentially employees of the team. While Bulpett still has a job at the Herald my guess he would move to Comcast if and when that came to an end. Their job is to help strengthen Ainge's hand not give away details that would be disadvantageous for the team.

Except scal on his nba radio show talked up Fultz for months before he knew Celtics had the number 1 pick and how ainge loved him etc etc. and how he would fit great in Celtics offense etc. so yes I agree ainge does use the media to create narrative but in this insistence and others scal was just wrong. The fact of the matter is what you’re saying is right- ainge is not going to show his cards to members of the media but rather use them to spin a story to create perception.

That’s much different than scal being an “insider” with tons of knowledge like suggested. which is what I said. The fact they use scal for workouts is because they trust he will give an accurate evaluation of player and not have to rely on anyone like an agent who has vested interest in the workout going well.

I used to listen to scal on nba radio 3 hours a day on my commutes for work, he’s been wrong several times and it’s not just because he’s a deep cover media manipulator for the Celtics.

[jirrit]

I’m out on Capela, I’d rather keep Theis and get Covington ourselves than help HOU get him.

Langford, Semi, Poirier, MIL pick for Covington and Reid seems fair on both ends. Covington is good but isn’t fetching more than a lotto pick and a late first.

We don’t need another wing though.

He’d be a swing/PF. Triple down on what we’re good at. We’d go a legit 8 deep with experienced skilled players, all of whom but Kanter can knock down 3s and defend. Grant/Wanamaker as your 9 and 10 guys, that’s pretty solid. Then throw in Timelord if he ever makes it back as the X factor.

Kemba 32 Smart 16
Brown 28 Hayward 12 Smart 8
Hayward 18 Tatum 14 Covington 12 Brown 4
Tatum 20 Covington 16 Grant 12
Theis 22 Kanter 22 Timelord 4

I'm not really perfect on the numbers and positions but something like this feels very solid and we kinda never have a moment where I got a 'bench' feeling about our team.

Capela just doesn't fit cause he can't shoot 3's. If you give them Theis we'd even lose another one who can shoot 3's.

[cloverleaf]

One thing the C's don't need to do is to get younger. And I think Kanter has been exceptional for chemistry too. We've heard for years about the divide between the rooks and the non-rooks, and he seems to have bridged that with his easy and apparently strong relationship with Tacko, Grant, etc. Also, the international guys can be left on the fringes, but he clearly is strong with them, too. He is good with the media, too. He is a fringe starter in talent apparently happy in his role, and I think one of the few guys the team needs to hold onto for that something extra human dynamic.

[jirrit]

I don't see Capela being the guy that Danny goes hard for. Would go against everything Ainge has done in roster building over the past year. Plus, we have Robert Williams coming back. He gives us some of what Capela would...and Stevens will only use that style when he needs it which won't be too often because Theis/Kanter/Grant have held the fort down.

Me neither, at the right time at the right price maybe. He asked in the offseason when we're looking to replace Horford's impact somehow. After having played 50 games our center position doesn't really look like a huge problem anymore to me. Even now without Kanter & Williams we're still always in games. No, it's not a glaring need anymore IMO and Capela's cons don't come in handy (bad shooting, no spacing, long contract (albeit decent salary but I rather Kanter & Theis at half the amount), etc).

[zoyathedestroya]

So that 26-30 million dollar tax payment, does that account for the repeater tax? Because if the C's trade for Capella but keep Hayward and Smart its going to be very hard to avoid the tax next year. Without Capella its possible, especially if Hayward come back at a lower number. That would mean 21-22 is the first year the Celtics would have to pay the repeater tax.

I thought repeater tax gets triggered if a team is in tax 3 of the last 4 seasons. Could be wrong. Someone confirm.

In my scenario, Cs can avoid the tax next season (projected $134.8M) with some maneuvering even with Capela, Smart, and Hayward.

The Celtics were in the tax last year. Wont be this year. If they Bring in capela than its going to be pretty hard to avoid next year, and then Tatums extension kicks in and they almost certainly will be then. In that scenario Tatums first year extension (21-22) would be the first year in the repeater tax.

Now if they can avoid it next year the tax resets and it wont be a problem for a while. But with

34.4 Kemba
23.9 Brown
9.9 Tatum
13.5 Smart
16 Capela
6 Kanter

That would be around 103 million. Lets say you can get Hayward at 25 million (it may very well be more). Thats 128 million against a 140 tax for 7 guys. Basically to have a shot you'd have to dump everyone else and fill the roster out with minimums. Langford makes 3.6 million, the MEM pick currently would be 17th thats like another 3 million. It gets really tough.

Granted thats a pretty good top 7. And as you say, I think Capella is probably pretty unlikely.

I have us at $134M for 10 guys (Kemba, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Capela, Langford, Williams twins, 1st rd pick). You can start Hayward and Brown at a lower number, make them whole later just to avoid the tax for another year. Kanter was included in my hypothetical trade. Waived Theis in the offseason. Sign Tacko and Tremont to whatever Edwards' comparable number is. Sign a vet or two at the minimum.

Kemba / Brown / Hayward / Tatum / Capela
Smart / Langford / vet / Williams / Williams
Tremont / Tacko / vet / 1st rd pick

Probably not a true contender, but pretty darn close.

EDIT: That Hayward number is wishful thinking btw.

[GoCeltics123]

Read on Twitter

Lol

[djFan71]

We don’t need another wing though.

He’d be a swing/PF. Triple down on what we’re good at. We’d go a legit 8 deep with experienced skilled players, all of whom but Kanter can knock down 3s and defend. Grant/Wanamaker as your 9 and 10 guys, that’s pretty solid. Then throw in Timelord if he ever makes it back as the X factor.

Kemba 32 Smart 16
Brown 28 Hayward 12 Smart 8
Hayward 18 Tatum 14 Covington 12 Brown 4
Tatum 20 Covington 16 Grant 12
Theis 22 Kanter 22 Timelord 4

I'm not really perfect on the numbers and positions but something like this feels very solid and we kinda never have a moment where I got a 'bench' feeling about our team.

Capela just doesn't fit cause he can't shoot 3's. If you give them Theis we'd even lose another one who can shoot 3's.

Yep, it seems like there's just not much letdown anywhere, esp with the staggering. Maybe you add an Alec Burks trade for this year as well. I just love the idea of our starting 5 with Smart & Covington off the bench - and both are locked up for ~$12M/year each for the next few years. We'd definitely be small still, but super versatile and depth to withstand injuries.

Covington's also a nice hedge against whatever Hayward decides to do this summer.

[Celts17Pride]

Read on Twitter

I’ve talked myself off the Capela train. I still think the Celtics are fine with Kanter/Theis/RWIII. Much rather go get a wing shooter for the bench

[GoCeltics123]

Alec Burks would be nice if we can get him for cheap

[CelticsLV]

Read on Twitter

I’ve talked myself off the Capela train. I still think the Celtics are fine with Kanter/Theis/RWIII. Much rather go get a wing shooter for the bench

This is also where I stand. Somebody like rumored Burks could be a decent option for scoring/shooting off the bench.

[djFan71]

He’d be a swing/PF. Triple down on what we’re good at. We’d go a legit 8 deep with experienced skilled players, all of whom but Kanter can knock down 3s and defend. Grant/Wanamaker as your 9 and 10 guys, that’s pretty solid. Then throw in Timelord if he ever makes it back as the X factor.

Kemba 32 Smart 16
Brown 28 Hayward 12 Smart 8
Hayward 18 Tatum 14 Covington 12 Brown 4
Tatum 20 Covington 16 Grant 12
Theis 22 Kanter 22 Timelord 4

I'm not really perfect on the numbers and positions but something like this feels very solid and we kinda never have a moment where I got a 'bench' feeling about our team.

Capela just doesn't fit cause he can't shoot 3's. If you give them Theis we'd even lose another one who can shoot 3's.

Yep, it seems like there's just not much letdown anywhere, esp with the staggering. Maybe you add an Alec Burks trade for this year as well. I just love the idea of our starting 5 with Smart & Covington off the bench - and both are locked up for ~$12M/year each for the next few years. We'd definitely be small still, but super versatile and depth to withstand injuries.

Covington's also a nice hedge against whatever Hayward decides to do this summer.

Langford, Semi, Poirier, MIL pick for Covington and Reid
Javonte, 2nd rounder for Burks.

Javonte saves Golden St $0.7M so if they make other moves to get under the tax, this would be more helpful to them than getting Edwards back. I don't think I go first rounder for Burks.

Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Theis
Smart, Burks, Covington, Grant, Kanter
Wanamaker, Timelord
Edwards, Reid
Buyout

That team could make some noise. If the other teams aren't interested in those prices, I roll with what we got.

[djFan71]

Another version saves GSW $1.4M. That and a Looney move get them under the tax, I believe.

Edwards/Javonte/2nd for Burks/Poole.