Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

[MrSparkle]

"LeBron James changed his position from Wednesday evening during a league-wide meeting of players in which he advocated for the cancelation of the season.

James, among others, relayed that is was in their collective best interest to finish the season."

First, he reportedly stormed out of the meeting when other teams didn't go along with his wishes to cancel the season. Now, he changes his mind sighting "collective best interests"- that means they thought about the money, right?

I think so.

Ideological stands sound great in theory until you realize that big equity runs the climate right now.

We know a lot of sports owners are rich tycoons who don't care about black people's struggles even though they profit immensely off their athletic performance and celebrity... Esp. the NFL and MLB... even NBA. The Devoes family is doing terrible things for lower-income education, and that family owns the Orlando Magic. It's unsettling, yes. And in the long-term, I think it's important to apply pressure on owners whose best interests are completely against their players' (like Sterling was, for example). NFL especially, those guys are living in the 19th century.

But at a certain point, you can't hold every NBA owner ransom. First, they do have more money than the players - meaning, players (particularly without massive endorsement/commercial appeal) DO have more to lose. Second, not all owners are heartless, but they also are at pressures and interests to keep large operations running. Third, they have many other financial interests as well, so you can strike in solidarity against their basketball capital, but you won't win. The losers are gonna be the 100-150 players who don't have a contract security for life, and some guys basically have a 2-4 year window to really make their money. Everyone talks about how they make millions to put a ball through the hoop, but they don't talk about the 10-15 years of unpaid practice and work and small narrow luck they had to make the league, and all it takes is 1 injury or just a bad emotional stretch to screw it all up and end up with no savings, real estate, let alone retirement money.

How brutal would it be to know you made the league, best shape of your life, ready for a huge contract opportunity, but you don't get one because Lebron and Kyrie decided it's in everyone's best interest to take 1-2 years off? Lebron has a $450m net worth. Kyrie is at $45m. I mean... honestly. Let's be real for a minute. Their actions have infinite influence on young black kids. Personally, I can not think of a worse message to send to them then "Stop everything you are doing to protest." I like the message of education- read up on American history. Read about international history (very important- this subject was notably absent in my conversations with BLM - how can you be so passionate about a racial movement without being aware of anything going on in Nigeria, South Africa, Indonesia, indigenous and black Brazil, the Middle East, all these other places on earth with terrible racial and ethnic problems). Tech - the future of the economy. Medicine. So much to learn about- my 2c is we need a sense of urgency. Now is not the time to just "quit", reflect, and protest without a tangible goal in mind.

It's my bone to pick with woke culture (not speaking on the peaceful protestors - but the extreme movement of 'nothing is gonna change unless we burn it down' kind of woke, which seems to be growing exponentially in the last year amongst the Gen Y and Z range). It's like everyone got together to make the right play, but the message is shooting on a tangent, far-left of "goal." It's like a 5-on-1 fast-break and the guy with the ball decided to do a 360 no-look pass into the stands instead of just looking around him and seeing there are teammates who want to just make that 2pt basket and keep running.

But I digress. IMO they made the right decision to squash the idea of cancelling the entire playoffs. Right now is the time to stay focused and calculated, not abrupt and impulsive.

[kodo]

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[MrSparkle]

All that said, hope NBA owners take a serious look in the mirror and get more proactive.

The coaches are the white men in suits getting their players backs. But coaches aren't the power players, the owners are.

Besides a few guys like Cuban, I don't see the owners with their billions of dollars and influence making any public statements and gestures. Most of them own NBA teams because they were amazing investments, not because they loved the game. The NBA has grown insanely the last 30 years. Every 5 years it's like estimate team values blow up another 100%, yet owners cry about their year-to-year losses. I get that this year is particularly difficult. But clearly on an emotional level, black NBA players are in a vulnerable place.

[dice]

I think I heard the Lakers/Clippers both voted to "cancel" the season. Fellas, I think the 2019-2020 season is over.

Good. Lebron will never be as good as MJ. Another failed season.

given that lebron is the spiritual leader of the players, i think that history would be very kind to him if the season was cancelled under his leadership. the nba GOAT argument is small potatoes compared to this social moment. jim brown is lionized several decades after his playing days for much more than his on-field greatness

[dice]

"LeBron James changed his position from Wednesday evening during a league-wide meeting of players in which he advocated for the cancelation of the season.

James, among others, relayed that is was in their collective best interest to finish the season."

First, he reportedly stormed out of the meeting when other teams didn't go along with his wishes to cancel the season. Now, he changes his mind sighting "collective best interests"- that means they thought about the money, right?

I think so.

Ideological stands sound great in theory until you realize that big equity runs the climate right now.

as already noted in post 516, cancelling the season at this point would be of little consequence to the players financially. the owners have very little leverage here beyond their ability to fund further awareness of an issue that is obviously very important to the players. thus the boycott

i have always felt that continuing to play with a message behind it is more impactful than not playing. but a boycott without losing games only keeps the nba and its message in the spotlight that much longer this season

i was thinking today that maybe the absolute best thing the players could have used their power for would be to refuse to play until a certain number of new voters were registered through nba.com or something

[PlayerUp]

given that lebron is the spiritual leader of the players

Jordan spiritual leader to the entire NBA tbh. Facts remain Jordan > Lebron.

[dice]

given that lebron is the spiritual leader of the players

Jordan spiritual leader to the entire NBA tbh

he should be, but he's quite clearly not. michael jordan is the only black owner and he's not saying much. he's taking a back seat in the public sphere

Facts remain Jordan > Lebron.

weird comment, weird timing. and that's not what a fact is

[PlayerUp]

he should be, but he's quite clearly not. michael jordan is the only black owner and he's not saying much. he's taking a back seat in the public sphere

You're right. Wonder why?

https://www.republicworld.com/sports-news/basketball-news/michael-jordan-political-views-is-michael-jordan-a-republican-nba-news.html

Maybe he doesn't want to hurt his public image with certain people so stays out of politics or maybe he just isn't that politically motivated? Kobe also seemed to stay out of politics as well.

Edit: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/michael-jordans-brand-donates-100-million-to-anti-racist-groups.html

Disregard. He is clearly involved. I mean to me a billionaire donating to help combat the issue is actually helping correct the issue. Burning businesses that have nothing to do with recent events is only causing more harm and setting us back from fixing the issue.

[dice]

he should be, but he's quite clearly not. michael jordan is the only black owner and he's not saying much. he's taking a back seat in the public sphere

You're right. Wonder why?

https://www.republicworld.com/sports-news/basketball-news/michael-jordan-political-views-is-michael-jordan-a-republican-nba-news.html

Maybe he doesn't want to hurt his public image with certain people so stays out of politics or maybe he just isn't that politically motivated? Kobe also seemed to stay out of politics as well.

this is not a discussion about WHY he takes a back seat. we all pretty much know the reasons for that

Edit: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/michael-jordans-brand-donates-100-million-to-anti-racist-groups.html

Disregard. He is clearly involved. I mean to me a billionaire donating to help combat the issue is actually helping correct the issue.

"taking a back seat" does not mean doing nothing. it means not being in the forefront of dealing with the issue and steering clear of creating enemies

donating 100 mil from his brand might even be good for business due to the PR benefit. that amount represents about 3% of annual revenue. additionally, it's a tax write off

Burning businesses that have nothing to do with recent events is only causing more harm and setting us back from fixing the issue.

nobody is advocating for that, strawman. and the fact that you went there means you're losing the argument

boycotting sporting events is a far cry from burning businesses, which has no place in this discussion

[PlayerUp]

nobody is advocating for that, strawman. and the fact that you went there means you're losing the argument

Actually I could care less about your 2 cents tbh nor do I care about arguing or losing your argument you seem to want to start. I gain 0 by actually discussing these matters with you nor does it positively help anyone. I simply said Jordan > Lebron which originally meant on a NBA level. Another failed championship run for Lebron. You then bring politics into this matter as usual. Not everyone has to be proactive vocally about these movements to be make a positive impact. Donating $100m regardless how you see it to me is at least doing something rather than nothing. At least Jordan is doing something, what are you doing exactly on your end to support your views besides ranting constantly on RealGM? If you want to actually convince people your ways are the right ways, try approaching things more positively and people may actually care to have a discussion with you on your viewpoints.

[dice]

nobody is advocating for that, strawman. and the fact that you went there means you're losing the argument

Actually I could care less about your 2 cents tbh nor do I care about arguing or losing your argument you seem to want to start.

errr...YOU started the argument by ridiculously bringing michael jordan into a conversation about a season potentially being cancelled due to political/social justice events having nothing to do with him. not long ago. today. just scroll up. you can't have forgotten already

I gain 0 by actually discussing these matters with you nor does it positively help anyone.

then why not just say "yeah, you're right. bringing MJ's legacy into a discussion about a season potentially being cancelled due to social justice concerns maybe didn't make much sense" and been done with it? instead you doubled down by not only reiterating your stance that MJ is better than lebron as a player (a perfectly reasonable but weirdly timed argument), but also trying to install him as spiritual leader of the entire league in a racial justice discussion

I simply said Jordan > Lebron which originally meant on a NBA level. Another failed championship run for Lebron. You then bring politics into this matter as usual.

are you serious? the season is in the balance BECAUSE OF POLITICS! once again, trying to shoehorn michael jordan's GOAT legacy into that existing political discussion is seriously weird. and claiming that i'm introducing politics into a discussion that you weirdly tried to turn AWAY from politics is almost as weird

this nba season will be remembered for politics/social justice far more than for whoever won an asterisk-laden trophy

do i bring politics into a discussion about zach lavine? of course not. i discuss politics in the context of political discussions. and that's what this is

i don't even have a social justice message in my tagline (something that would be an entirely appropriate show of support in these times, but which might be denigrated by the pathetic white nationalist parrot hoards as "virtue signalling" by a "social justice warrior"). i instead have...a pithy larry bird quote

Donating $100m regardless how you see it to me is at least doing something rather than nothing. At least Jordan is doing something

i never said otherwise. not once. never said he was doing nothing. i explicitly addressed that in my last post. you conveniently ignored it. earlier you put forward a preposterous strawman argument about burning businesses. now you're ignoring responses in order to reiterate a point that nobody disagrees with

what are you doing exactly on your end to support your views besides ranting constantly on RealGM?

none of your damn business and it's inappropriate to ask. i'm not here to promote any charitable work that i've done. because that too would be inappropriate

If you want to actually convince people your ways are the right ways, try approaching things more positively and people may actually care to have a discussion with you on your viewpoints.

you started this "debate" by weirdly taking a potential season cancellation as an opportunity to denigrate lebron james's playing career. i responded quite reasonably and un-controversially (again, just scroll up). perhaps you should heed your own advice

Good. Lebron will never be as good as MJ. Another failed season.

a strangely negative contribution to a conversation about a far more serious issue than the lebron vs MJ debate, no? if anything, a season cancellation should reasonably be a positive reflection on lebron james given that he'd be sacrificing a potential addition to his playing resume (and well within grasp) for the greater good. i don't imagine that sick competitor michael jordan would have considered going that route...and that singular mindset is probably why most people think of him as the GOAT. but basketball isn't everything

and by the way, what a sick world we live in when racial justice is considered a political issue

[Dresden]

I think I heard the Lakers/Clippers both voted to "cancel" the season. Fellas, I think the 2019-2020 season is over.

Good. Lebron will never be as good as MJ. Another failed season.

given that lebron is the spiritual leader of the players, i think that history would be very kind to him if the season was cancelled under his leadership. the nba GOAT argument is small potatoes compared to this social moment. jim brown is lionized several decades after his playing days for much more than his on-field greatness

And how will history treat him for one night wanting to cancel the season, and the next day changing his mind, most likely for financial reasons?

[PrimzyBulls81]

They thought of canceling the playoffs? what a bunch of whinies!? ALL LIVES MATTER! that should be the motto.. not overblowing now every dead black guy! Im not rasist,not even by a long shot,I love all people,black,white,yellow,brown.. but this is getting overblown and over-exaggerated. Stop messing sport with politics and everything else, play the game, do your freaking job,that you are paid heavily!

[wonderboy2]

They thought of canceling the playoffs? what a bunch of whinies!? ALL LIVES MATTER! that should be the motto.. not overblowing now every dead black guy! Im not rasist,not even by a long shot,I love all people,black,white,yellow,brown.. but this is getting overblown and over-exaggerated. Stop messing sport with politics and everything else, play the game, do your freaking job,that you are paid heavily!

See I think this is where people get confused and why there should be awareness to this issue. OFCOURSE ALL LIVES MATTER! NOBODY SHOULD BE SHOT IN THE BACK 7 TIMES! But for the longest times it’s that blacks and minorities get killed senselessly by the police and it’s never any consequence because of lack of power or resources to those families. If a white person get killed senselessly by the police more often then not that family has the power or recourses to sue the hell out of the police department and they are taken way more serious in court than African Americans. And the fact that you said to stop overblowing every dead Black guy proves that all black lives don’t matter to some people. No one single person death is overblown whether he’s, white, black, Asian or whatever. Especially somebody that is walking away getting shot in the back 7 times which was unnecessary. And I’m willing to bet majority on here never worked or lived in a inner city black community so they don’t know what goes on in these communities in terms of the police. But EVERYBODY KNOWS WHITE LIVES MATTER because it does. There no need to give that message because everybody understands that. But for the longest time not everybody understand that BLACK LIVES matter and no death is over blown.

[dougthonus]

as already noted in post 516, cancelling the season at this point would be of little consequence to the players financially. the owners have very little leverage here beyond their ability to fund further awareness of an issue that is obviously very important to the players. thus the boycott

I don't think this is true at all. It would have very little short term impact because the players are paid (by and large) already. However, the owners could then use this to open up a new CBA because the players are unwilling to cooperate under the existing one, and it would likely be scortched Earth negotiation at this point.

We're at a precipice here where it could easily turn incredibly ugly really fast if both sides don't make enough compromise to get on the same page. I'm sure there are owners that would love to redo a CBA negotiation now, especially after the playoffs is canceled and revenue can easily be predicted to be down 20-30% next year and teams may lose money by playing games anyway and can simply lock out the players for a full season where fans may not be in seats and while doing so, negotiate a long term split of like 60/40 or something massively in their favor, maybe usher in a hard cap or other things.

Whether they could pull that off or not, who knows, but the owners would be in a massively, massively stronger position in a lockout right now because they'd void all player costs and might come out ahead financially while the lockout is in progress compared to the players whom will just be losing money.

Not saying it will go this way of course, I think the owners actually very much sympathize with the players and are respectfully trying to meet them half way and do what they can. I expect both sides to figure something out. However, if they don't, I would expect everyone to lose financially here, but the players to take the biggest financial loss by a good margin.

[TheSuzerain]

given that lebron is the spiritual leader of the players

Jordan spiritual leader to the entire NBA tbh

he should be, but he's quite clearly not. michael jordan is the only black owner and he's not saying much. he's taking a back seat in the public sphere

Facts remain Jordan > Lebron.

weird comment, weird timing. and that's not what a fact is

He definitely shouldn't be.

He's not worthy of that at all.

[MrSparkle]

as already noted in post 516, cancelling the season at this point would be of little consequence to the players financially. the owners have very little leverage here beyond their ability to fund further awareness of an issue that is obviously very important to the players. thus the boycott

I don't think this is true at all. It would have very little short term impact because the players are paid (by and large) already. However, the owners could then use this to open up a new CBA because the players are unwilling to cooperate under the existing one, and it would likely be scortched Earth negotiation at this point.

We're at a precipice here where it could easily turn incredibly ugly really fast if both sides don't make enough compromise to get on the same page. I'm sure there are owners that would love to redo a CBA negotiation now, especially after the playoffs is canceled and revenue can easily be predicted to be down 20-30% next year and teams may lose money by playing games anyway and can simply lock out the players for a full season where fans may not be in seats and while doing so, negotiate a long term split of like 60/40 or something massively in their favor, maybe usher in a hard cap or other things.

Whether they could pull that off or not, who knows, but the owners would be in a massively, massively stronger position in a lockout right now because they'd void all player costs and might come out ahead financially while the lockout is in progress compared to the players whom will just be losing money.

Not saying it will go this way of course, I think the owners actually very much sympathize with the players and are respectfully trying to meet them half way and do what they can. I expect both sides to figure something out. However, if they don't, I would expect everyone to lose financially here, but the players to take the biggest financial loss by a good margin.

I agree.

The damage from this year 'has been done.' March and April alone were enough for many businesses to fold and recover from the meteor-sized economic hit. Considering this has gone on much longer with no end in sight, there hasn't been this big a direct hit to the service, entertainment and travel sectors ever in modern history. So regardless of the bubble, things were bad; destroy the bubble, I see bad going worse.

Main reason why I also think both sides figure it out... is because the players as a party aren't gonna be on the same page with the amount of salary lost in a potential stale-mate. It's ironic that guys like Lebron, Paul, etc. get the loudest voice in the NBAP (though it makes sense, they are the best players with the most power), because it's entirely up to them to represent and sympathize with the 80% of players who don't have even a fraction of their net worth. When you have a union strike at a construction job or school, it's much different because for the most part, your colleagues are all making roughly the same salary. But when one guy is worth $5m and the other has $450m, it's really a different type of strike.

[Dresden]

There has to be a big economic hit to the league if they cancel the playoffs. All that TV money isn't going to be paid if they don't have playoff games, which is a huge source of revenue.

[dice]

Good. Lebron will never be as good as MJ. Another failed season.

given that lebron is the spiritual leader of the players, i think that history would be very kind to him if the season was cancelled under his leadership. the nba GOAT argument is small potatoes compared to this social moment. jim brown is lionized several decades after his playing days for much more than his on-field greatness

And how will history treat him for one night wanting to cancel the season, and the next day changing his mind, most likely for financial reasons?

do you honestly think that lebron james didn't know the potential financial consequences prior to changing his mind?

as already noted at least twice, lebron james's finances would not be materially affected by the remainder of this season being cancelled. and as far as future revenue, it's all speculation on our part. either way, lebron himself has accumulated generational wealth and will continue to regardless of his nba income. moreover, and i know that people tend to ignore this based on his continued high level of play, but lebron is under contract for $40 mil a year. his next contract, if there is one, would kick in at age THIRTY-EIGHT. there's simply no reason for him to be fretting his future payouts from nba owners

[Dresden]

Spiritual leader??

RealGM WiretapRealGM Wiretap

LeBron James' Attitude During Meetings 'Turned Off' Owners, Younger Players
AUG 28, 2020 2:45 PM


During Friday's episode of First Take, Stephen A. Smith shed light on the role LeBron James played in meetings with his fellow players on Wednesday evening and the owners on Thursday.

"To call him a leader at this particular moment in time, that would not apply," said Smith. "When you talk to people inside the bubble, let me tell you what I heard. I heard, first of all, he was speaking out of pocket and was talking to the players in a fashion that really turned some of these young cats off. This is a new day. This is a new generation. As we have said on previous shows when cats were out in the streets protesting and things of that nature, just talking about the younger generation, they're not having it anymore. Well, guess what, the younger generation of players were not having what they were hearing from LeBron James because of the fashion in which he spoke to them.

"So when he stormed out of there, I was told it was in part because of that. And he sort of came off like 'I got mine, I don't need this.' And he walked out.

"Now, we later learned the Lakers and the Clippers were the two teams who did not want to participate."

The Lakers and Clippers decided on Thursday morning that they would continue with the playoffs, and that led to a call between two player representatives of each team, the NBPA, Adam Silver, Michael Jordan and a governor from each team still in the playoffs. Smith was told, however, the Lakers had four representatives on the call.

"When everyone thought the meeting was over, LeBron James grabs the mic, and from what I'm told talks for about 15 minutes," said Smith. "And he's talking for about 15 minutes in a fashion that turned everybody off because they had already agreed to what they were going to do moving forward. And he was talking about 'The guys beneath me. I have to look out for the guys beneath me.'

"To the point where you had people saying 'What the hell you mean...beneath you?'

"They didn't say that to him, but they certainly said it to people like myself, Woj and others that were covering the meeting. He came across as if he was the king with some crown and what have you, and it was a real, real turnoff.

"Why is this relevant, ladies and gentleman? It is relevant because you're trying to galvanize folks with your More Than A Vote movement. This is the same LeBron James who has that excellent show executive produced by himself and my man Maverick Carter on The Shop on HBO. Remember, you're talking during that show, you want to be an owner. Well, you already alienated owners when you departed from Cleveland to go [to the Heat] the first time. You obviously were on the verge of alienating owners this time around. And this is a good old boys club. They don't have to let you in as an owner, which is what he ultimately wants."

Smith pointed out how Larry Ellison has tried to purchase an NBA team for years, but the league and owners have so far not let him do so.

"So for LeBron to have these aspirations but really turning people off the way that he has, some of the players, executives, owners...LeBron James needs to be careful. He usually sees the forest for the trees. Over the last two days, that was not the case. He turned a lot of people off by how he tried to come across as if he were big time. He needs to be careful about that, from what I've been told by numerous people that were present."

Smith indicated that the message James conveyed was wanting to put pressure on the owners, but they had already agreed to help the players as he spoke last.

"A lot of people are talking about it in Orlando because of how he came across. He did not look good."