Woj: Raptors trade Pascal Siakam to Pacers for Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis and 3 first round picks

[Nuntius]

Pacers absolutely worked Masai here. Great deal for them, not a contender but low risk high reward.

Your self loathing is approaching embarrassing levels. Let go of the hate, dude.

This. terrible poster.

This might just be my personal bias but Pointgod is absolutely a top 5 poster in this forum.

[MrBigShot]

Haliburton is the biggest winner of this trade. With some internal development from some of their wings, the pacers might have a legit contender in another year or two.

[xBulletproof]

I genuinely don't believe the Pacers are done, either. We still have a lot of rotation players that won't be playing. Still have picks we can trade, and expiring money like Hield.

We apparently TRIED to get OG and Siakam together before the NYK trade. So, I feel like we are aware this isn't a finished product, that we are still 1 player short, likely.

Thought it was interesting that we just waived James Johnson as well.

That's because it had to be done to get Siakam, he will be signed back. It's the New Orleans player we are taking in to balance the salary.

[Nuntius]

They are a lot better now than they were yesterday. They didn't give up a starter or a young piece of the rotation. Just a few picks that will be in the 20's. It's a no-brainer.

Well, we DID give up a starter in Bruce Brown. But we didn't give up a young piece of the rotation, that much is very true. I am happy with the price we paid.

Let's see the fit and then the contract extension.

[HotelVitale]

Also, who cares if the Pacers give Siakam 30 mill a year. Why do fans act like owners overpaying is their personal problem? The Pacers don't sign free agents. They'll have Siakam, Haliburton, Turner locked down through at least next year. That's a very nice trio to build around. Plus quite a few young talented players surrounding them. Siakam is only 29, don't know why people are acting like he's nearing the end of his career.

He is getting way more than 30M a year. He makes 38M a year now and wants a raise. He will get the max. Not sure what that even is but I imagine around 45M a year that only keeps going up year after year.

My rough calculations put his regular max starting around $42-43m and going up to about $60m. Hard to predict exactly what’ll happen but you’d assume the Pacers are prepared to give him at least close to that, probably in the 1st hour of FA.

It’s a lot of flexibility to give up but Pacers aren’t overloaded with $ yet so it’s a good time to go for a move like that. And he should be easily tradeable in a year or two if things don’t work. Contracts don’t have to be steals (or even ‘fair’ in realgm’s eyes) to work out well for teams.

[phanman]

I genuinely don't believe the Pacers are done, either. We still have a lot of rotation players that won't be playing. Still have picks we can trade, and expiring money like Hield.

We apparently TRIED to get OG and Siakam together before the NYK trade. So, I feel like we are aware this isn't a finished product, that we are still 1 player short, likely.

Thought it was interesting that we just waived James Johnson as well.

He fulfilled his role, there are no more games with the Bucks this season

[Nuntius]

May have already been answered, but what do Pacers fans think will be the starting and closing lineups now? Toppin to the bench in favor of Siakam, and then Hield to start/close? Maybe Mathurin or Nesmith get more starts as well?

Hali/Nesmith/Siakam/Myles are guaranteed to start, imo. Nembhard will start at the SG spot if healthy. If Nembhard is not healthy then Buddy starts. Carlisle seems to really like Mathurin in the 6th man role.

As for who finishes, that depends. Carlisle is one of those coaches that rides the hot hand. If someone from the bench unit (McConnell, Mathurin, Toppin, Smith et cetera) is having a good game, they will get to finish the game. I think that only Hali and Siakam are guaranteed to finish every game.

[Nuntius]

Haliburton is the biggest winner of this trade. With some internal development from some of their wings, the pacers might have a legit contender in another year or two.

Agreed. And that's what matters in the end. Giving your superstar a chance at contending.

[holdenwait]

Glad to see Pacers put another piece next to Haliburton. Always a positive to see some of the long mediocre teams rise back to a level of competency and aspire to compete

[djsunyc]

when the dame/jrue trade happened, alot of folks said let's wait for the follow up jrue deal before looking at the final tally.

i think that applies here to with bruce brown. if he's moved for a young player or pick(s), then that's part of this too even if they are separate deals.

[Nuntius]

I don't think the Pacers are done. They didn't include Walker and don't have a role for him.

I don't know whether we're done or not but I did want to comment on the last part. We do have a role for Walker. His role is to develop in the G-League. I may not agree with it and I definitely wanted us to give him more playing time but there is also no reason to trade him. He will provide internal development and we're definitely going to need that if we max out Siakam.

[Nuntius]

The Lakers thought they weren’t renting Dwight Howard for one season when they traded for him either. You can’t assume anything. Siakam may very well still leave. Without a contract extension you can’t assume.

No. That doesn’t apply to top 10 players which Dwight was at the time.

It’s different if every team would max said player. Otherwise guys are just taking the highest offer as free agents.

But Siakam is almost certainly going to get a max offer from other teams also though, so that logic doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe he re-signs, but he COULD leave. It's far from a sure thing.

True but we do have his Bird Rights now which means that we can offer him more than any other team.

[Ruma85]

I don't think the Pacers are done. They didn't include Walker and don't have a role for him.

I don't know whether we're done or not but I did want to comment on the last part. We do have a role for Walker. His role is to develop in the G-League. I may not agree with it and I definitely wanted us to give him more playing time but there is also no reason to trade him. He will provide internal development and we're definitely going to need that if we max out Siakam.

Rick did say that Walker will get on the floor, they are bringing him up slowly, kinda like what Miami is doing with Jović

[dkb964]

Also, who cares if the Pacers give Siakam 30 mill a year. Why do fans act like owners overpaying is their personal problem? The Pacers don't sign free agents. They'll have Siakam, Haliburton, Turner locked down through at least next year. That's a very nice trio to build around. Plus quite a few young talented players surrounding them. Siakam is only 29, don't know why people are acting like he's nearing the end of his career.

He is getting way more than 30M a year. He makes 38M a year now and wants a raise. He will get the max. Not sure what that even is but I imagine around 45M a year that only keeps going up year after year.

My rough calculations put his regular max starting around $42-43m and going up to about $60m. Hard to predict exactly what’ll happen but you’d assume the Pacers are prepared to give him at least close to that, probably in the 1st hour of FA.

It’s a lot of flexibility to give up but Pacers aren’t overloaded with $ yet so it’s a good time to go for a move like that. And he should be easily tradeable in a year or two if things don’t work. Contracts don’t have to be steals (or even ‘fair’ in realgm’s eyes) to work out well for teams.

Yikes. Imagine paying a 34-35 year old Siakam 60M a year. It is not like his game will age well or anything.

[Nuntius]

Guys, it's SiakAm, not Siakim.

There's an alternate dimension with a Siakim and a Porzingas and their people keep slipping through.

That's amazing

[RoyceDa59]

Siakam is going to tear it up in Indiana with the floor spacing, passing and pace. He is best on the move catching the ball and making quick, decisive moves to the basket.

Pacers can beat anyone in the East with this trade.

[tcheco]

Considering Indy kepth all their players with upside(nembhard, mathurin and walker) this is a safe move for them, honestly.
Wouldn't oppose them trying to get Deni or a similar player(since the former is getting too expensive)

[Nuntius]

I know this draft is deemed as bad but its precisely because of its talent homogeneity that picking in late lottery or late 20 has value.
I'd rather pick Proctor or McCullar in the late 20 than Collier in the top 5-10... there will be lot of steals

Yep, this is it precisely. It's a bad draft to have a pick in the top 5 or top 10 because usually when you pick in that range you're hoping to get a potential future All-Star. That isn't necessarily the case in this draft. At least, no one stands out as having a better than average chance of ending up like that.

It's why the Raps should really hope to convey their 1st to San Antonio this year, because even a top 5 pick this year could end up the same value as a top 15 pick another year.

However, there could still very well be lots of rotation players available in this draft. Most draft observers feel that the talent in the draft is essentially flat in the pick range of 15-40. If the Raps use all three of the picks they now have this year, the hope will be that they can find at least two rotation players, and perhaps one of them could grow to be starter quality.

Most of the complaints from raptor fans about the picks being in a bad draft started with people that refused to aknowledge it was a bad draft in the first place. And after reading today, they still don't understand what you both just described. That this draft is mostly devoid of great talent at the top, but does not mean its not slightly deep with pretty average prospects. Its going to be a bit of a crapshoot because of that. Put your post in the raptors forum so maybe some of them get it. I suspect they wouldn't though since they already made up their minds.

Its not ideal, but its also not complete trash.

Agreed. I think that the Raptors did well considering the circumstances. I think that both teams did well.

The picks do not matter that much for Indiana given the abundance of young players and depth we have (we literally have 10 players who are 24 or younger, 6 of them are an active part of the rotation).

But that doesn't mean that the picks themselves are totally useless. Toronto has a good draft record and they can definitely utilize those picks. Toronto probably values those picks a lot more than Indiana does.

[monopoman]

I honestly love the trade if Siakam said he would stay with the Pacers. Haliburton and pascal will be such a good duo, add in Turner and it can be great

I really doubt they would give up this package if he wasn't talking about re-signing there. This is a huge overpay for a 1 year rental on Siakim.

[Johnny Bball]

Yep, this is it precisely. It's a bad draft to have a pick in the top 5 or top 10 because usually when you pick in that range you're hoping to get a potential future All-Star. That isn't necessarily the case in this draft. At least, no one stands out as having a better than average chance of ending up like that.

It's why the Raps should really hope to convey their 1st to San Antonio this year, because even a top 5 pick this year could end up the same value as a top 15 pick another year.

However, there could still very well be lots of rotation players available in this draft. Most draft observers feel that the talent in the draft is essentially flat in the pick range of 15-40. If the Raps use all three of the picks they now have this year, the hope will be that they can find at least two rotation players, and perhaps one of them could grow to be starter quality.

Most of the complaints from raptor fans about the picks being in a bad draft started with people that refused to aknowledge it was a bad draft in the first place. And after reading today, they still don't understand what you both just described. That this draft is mostly devoid of great talent at the top, but does not mean its not slightly deep with pretty average prospects. Its going to be a bit of a crapshoot because of that. Put your post in the raptors forum so maybe some of them get it. I suspect they wouldn't though since they already made up their minds.

Its not ideal, but its also not complete trash.

Agreed. I think that the Raptors did well considering the circumstances. I think that both teams did well.

The picks do not matter that much for Indiana given the abundance of young players and depth we have (we literally have 10 players who are 24 or younger, 6 of them are an active part of the rotation).

But that doesn't mean that the picks themselves are totally useless. Toronto has a good draft record and they can definitely utilize those picks. Toronto probably values those picks a lot more than Indiana does.

Thanks. But I don't think they did well. I think their market was very limited is all given his coming salary demands and a few months or at the break last year wasn't going to change that.

Its just like always.... People overreact. Its not terrible and its not good. Its pretty much a little below average. I get you though.

I did think given the coming salary crunch Indy will face in two years, starting next year a little, they could have pried one of the youngsters away. But given the market, I'm glad they didn't take this to the wall and to the last second either. Because there are probably 3 follow up moves they should make, and you never know if Indy moves to another trade and you are left holding the bag. Toronto blinked because they had to.