NBA Trade Thread #12

[jnrjr79]

Of the three trade pieces, which do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby?

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

I'd think there's a reasonable chance Matas is worth the most, given he'll be on his rookie deal for several more years and then very likely to be under team control thereafter.

Giddey might be worth the most if you were setting aside contracts given his level of production and relative youth. But how much he's worth will depend a lot on how big his deal is this offseason.

Coby is probably worth the least since he is more developed and can be a UFA in one year.

[Dan Z]

Of the three trade pieces, which do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby?

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

Matas.

He's young, has upside and is on his rookie deal.

The other two players have upside too, but not as much, plus they're up for contract extensions.

Giddey is better than Matas at the moment, but what will that do for the Bucks? Giddey, Portis, Lopez, Kuzma and AJ Green is one of the worst teams in the league.

[jnrjr79]

Of the three trade pieces, which do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby?

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

Matas.

He's young, has upside and is on his rookie deal.

The other two players have upside too, but not as much, plus they're up for contract extensions.

Giddey is better than Matas at the moment, but what will that do for the Bucks? Giddey, Portis, Lopez, Kuzma and AJ Green is one of the worst teams in the league.

Lopez is a UFA and Portis has a $13M player option, so in this scenario, Lopez is gone and perhaps Bobby is, too. So they may be even worse than you note!

A player like Giddey is young enough that I think Milwaukee would be fine taking him on a longer-term deal and letting him lead a bad team in the short run.

[Dan Z]

I can't seem to find whether you can aggregate salaries with an outbound sign-and-traded player under the new CBA, but to the extent you can, I would also prefer to include Giddey over Matas. So if the Bucks preferred that, then great.

EDIT: one other note - the Bulls do have the Portland pick they can throw in the mix here, and I assume they'd happily do so.

I don't think any of it would be enough for the Bucks to agree to a deal. Okay...the Bucks say yes (to the deal that includes Matas and not Giddey) and they're terrible next year (New Orleans owns a pick swap with them for 2026. Then owns their 2027 outright). The Bulls improve with Giannis....let's say its not even a huge improvement. Right now the Bulls pick is #12 so next year it's....#15 or so?

The Bucks traded Giannis for the #12 in 2025, #15 in 2026, future picks/swaps and Matas as the main pieces...?

I guess I don't really think about it in terms of what is "enough" for the Bucks in isolation. The Bucks also can't worry about whether they will be bad and that means the Pellies get a better pick. It doesn't matter - that pick is gone anyway. What the Bucks need to focus on is how the heck to build a decent team in a post-Giannis world, which will be painful as things currently stand.

I agree with you insofar as I very much doubt the Bulls will end up making the best offer the Bucks will get. There are other teams that would project to be interested in Giannis that will have better draft assets (because they are inbound from other teams) than what the Bulls can offer.

The Bulls could probably get closer if they were willing to offer both Giddey and Matas, but I don't really see the point in that. Coby + Giannis + all your future picks encumbered is going to put the Bulls in a very tough position to add the necessary pieces.

What we really need to be rooting for now is jumping into the top 4 in the draft. If the Bulls were able to do that, all of a sudden what they can offer Milwaukee looks a lot more compelling.

Whatever trade is offered you have to think about it from the Bucks perspective too. Giannis is the only piece that might be able to give them some hope to rebuild going forward.

In some ways I agree with you about the picks that New Orleans owns, but that's something Milwaukee has to keep in mind. If they bottom out (after a GIannis trade) then it would have to be a situation where they got young players with potential and good future picks. Or they somehow get those picks back from New Orleans (Brooklyn managed to do that...I think it was the Bridges trade?).

I agree with you that if the Bulls pick ends up in the top 4 then their offer is more compelling. Let's say Bailey, Matas plus future picks/swaps...that's something they can work with.

Having said that other teams can still offer better deals if they want to.

[MrSparkle]

Matas is the most valuable Bulls asset, without a doubt. 2nd year cheap rookie with star ceiling.

[Dan Z]

Of the three trade pieces, which do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby?

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

Matas.

He's young, has upside and is on his rookie deal.

The other two players have upside too, but not as much, plus they're up for contract extensions.

Giddey is better than Matas at the moment, but what will that do for the Bucks? Giddey, Portis, Lopez, Kuzma and AJ Green is one of the worst teams in the league.

Lopez is a UFA and Portis has a $13M player option, so in this scenario, Lopez is gone and perhaps Bobby is, too. So they may be even worse than you note!

A player like Giddey is young enough that I think Milwaukee would be fine taking him on a longer-term deal and letting him lead a bad team in the short run.

Giddey at say 35 million per year on a losing Bucks team, with limited assets to improve, doesn't do much for them.

I say limited assets because the Bulls 2025 pick is #12 and then future picks might not be that great (because Chicago now has Giannis). Plus the Bucks don't have control of their own picks until after 2030.

[Rose2Boozer]

The Bulls send Zach Collins, 2025 2nd round pick, 2026 1st round pick(Blazers) and 2027 unprotected 1st round pick to the Grizzlies for Jaren Jackson Jr.

*** If Blazers 1st doesn't convey, 2029 1st round pick swap

The Blazers pick does convey no matter what, eventually. There are three more seasons left where it could become a first-rounder (if the Blazers make the playoffs, since it's lottery-protected). It'll be a 2nd in 2028 if not otherwise conveyed. I wasn't sure if you were proposing here that the 2028 2nd would revert to the Bulls and the 2029 swap would be offered in lieu of it or what.

The Grizzlies would keep the Blazers 2028 second, and get a 2029 pick swap option.

[Infinity2152]

I'm looking at Giddey and watching him lead this Bulls squad after the Lavine trade and wondering if we're watching the same guy. If Giddey sits one game and Matas sits the next, all other things being equal and Ball doesn't play, I'd bet my house the team with Giddey plays better without Matas than vice versa. We've been starving for an actual point guard, a lead playmaker for years. 6'8 playmakers and rebounders like Giddey are unicorns. There may be 5-10 guys out of the 450 players in the league who put up higher numbers in total points, rebounds, assists next season.

The Bucks just watched Giddey put up ridiculous numbers after the trade, leading the Bulls to way more wins than anybody thought. Those wins were not because of the greatness of Matas. Getting that playmaker is like the hardest thing to do, outside getting a number 1. Plenty of shooters, defenders, rebounders in the league. Maybe 10-15 guys you'd call high end playmakers, and they're at multiple positions.

I'll agree to disagree. Giddey is young enough so the age difference is pretty irrelevant to me. You want to reasonably compare Giddey's impact/numbers on the court, you have to use guys like Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Lebron. We're lucky he's maxed at $30 mil AAV. If the Nets could go to $40-$50 mill, they probably would. And we'd probably match it. Matas is a better defender, but this year was worse than Giddey in pretty much every area, including shooting. You can find guys like Matas far more easily than Giddey. He does have the advantage of 3 cheap years left, but I think Giddey at $30 mill is going to be a great deal when comparing him to similar players making similar money.

[jnrjr79]

Matas.

He's young, has upside and is on his rookie deal.

The other two players have upside too, but not as much, plus they're up for contract extensions.

Giddey is better than Matas at the moment, but what will that do for the Bucks? Giddey, Portis, Lopez, Kuzma and AJ Green is one of the worst teams in the league.

Lopez is a UFA and Portis has a $13M player option, so in this scenario, Lopez is gone and perhaps Bobby is, too. So they may be even worse than you note!

A player like Giddey is young enough that I think Milwaukee would be fine taking him on a longer-term deal and letting him lead a bad team in the short run.

Giddey at say 35 million per year on a losing Bucks team, with limited assets to improve, doesn't do much for them.

I say limited assets because the Bulls 2025 pick is #12 and then future picks might not be that great (because Chicago now has Giannis). Plus the Bucks don't have control of their own picks until after 2030.

Sure, but to some extent this is true regardless of who the Bucks trade with. They're not going to get players back that will be good enough to win in the short-run, and that sucks for them since they don't control their picks. It's going to take them some time no matter what they do, so a young player just starting a long-term deal makes sense for them. But there are other teams who can probably offer a bigger combo of young players than the Bulls can/would.

[Infinity2152]

We say the Bucks will of course suck for years after the Giannis trade. Let's look at what they'd have if they made the trade with us (of course they could possibly make better trades with other teams, so they could conceivably be even better)

Re-signed Giddey, Coby White, Vucevic, Ayo plus #12, 2027 pick, 2029 pick for Giannis and Pat Connaughton. Let's just use this price.
Bucks re-sign Gary Trent Jr
Re-sign Lopez to vet min


Bucks roster:

Damian Lillard/Kevin Porter/Ayo
Coby White/Gary Trent Jr/Ayo
Josh Giddey/Pick #12/Andre Jackson
Kyle Kuzma/Bobby Portis/Tyler Smith
Vucevic/Lopez

Coby starts at PG and Trent at SG, Giddey at SF until Lillard returns. Now what if Pick #12 is very good/great?

One first round picks coming in 2026, two first round pics coming in 2027 and 2029

That team could win a good number of games even without Lillard, and with Lillard could be a playoff team. Especially in the East. Adding 1 first round pick in 2025, one in 2026, two in 2027. Young players in White, Giddey, Ayo, Pick 12, Andre Jackson, Tyler Smith plus new rookies, team could get good quick.

And let's face it. They're severely capped on how good they can be without Lillard playing while paying his contract, no matter what trade they do. Hard to fix a $54 mill hole in your cap.

[2weekswithpay]

Of the three trade pieces, who do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby? League wise, outside Bulls fan forums.

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

I think all three should have very good value, especially Giddey. Don't agree a lot of teams could beat our best offer without killing their teams, unless the Bucks value picks over everything else. And we have a good number of picks.

Bucks do have a first 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030, 2031. They're only missing 2029 and those pick swaps all those other years are with Pelicans, could be just as bad or worse than theirs anyway. They could legit both be lottery teams each year.

Coby.

Giddey needs an extension.

Matas didn't have a great year if we're comparing him to past rookies. The contract is valuable, but he isn't a good player right now.

[Infinity2152]

Of the three trade pieces, who do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby? League wise, outside Bulls fan forums.

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

I think all three should have very good value, especially Giddey. Don't agree a lot of teams could beat our best offer without killing their teams, unless the Bucks value picks over everything else. And we have a good number of picks.

Bucks do have a first 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030, 2031. They're only missing 2029 and those pick swaps all those other years are with Pelicans, could be just as bad or worse than theirs anyway. They could legit both be lottery teams each year.

Coby.

Giddey needs an extension.

Matas didn't have a great year if we're comparing him to past rookies. The contract is valuable, but he isn't a good player right now.

That's fair. It seems like Coby and Giddey are both pretty undervalued in here, at least to me. Articles from outside sources, the average expectation for Coby's contract is $40 mill. That's a pretty damn valuable player to me. Expecting Giddey to get the maximum they can pay him, which is still a great deal because his max is capped. I am 100% not opposed to paying Giddey $10 mill/yr less than we were paying Zach, think a lot of teams would love that, including the Kings lmao! Or $12 mill more than Collins or Huerter.

[jnrjr79]

Of the three trade pieces, who do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby? League wise, outside Bulls fan forums.

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

I think all three should have very good value, especially Giddey. Don't agree a lot of teams could beat our best offer without killing their teams, unless the Bucks value picks over everything else. And we have a good number of picks.

Bucks do have a first 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030, 2031. They're only missing 2029 and those pick swaps all those other years are with Pelicans, could be just as bad or worse than theirs anyway. They could legit both be lottery teams each year.

Coby.

Giddey needs an extension.

Matas didn't have a great year if we're comparing him to past rookies. The contract is valuable, but he isn't a good player right now.

That's fair. It seems like Coby and Giddey are both pretty undervalued in here, at least to me. Articles from outside sources, the average expectation for Coby's contract is $40 mill. That's a pretty damn valuable player to me. Expecting Giddey to get the maximum they can pay him, which is still a great deal because his max is capped. I am 100% not opposed to paying Giddey $10 mill/yr less than we were paying Zach, think a lot of teams would love that, including the Kings lmao! Or $12 mill more than Collins or Huerter.

If Coby gets a $40M/year deal, he will no longer be a very valuable trade asset. And he’s probably not one now given his impending UFA status.

Whether his trade value is high isn’t simply a function of whether he’s a good player.

[Infinity2152]

Coby.

Giddey needs an extension.

Matas didn't have a great year if we're comparing him to past rookies. The contract is valuable, but he isn't a good player right now.

That's fair. It seems like Coby and Giddey are both pretty undervalued in here, at least to me. Articles from outside sources, the average expectation for Coby's contract is $40 mill. That's a pretty damn valuable player to me. Expecting Giddey to get the maximum they can pay him, which is still a great deal because his max is capped. I am 100% not opposed to paying Giddey $10 mill/yr less than we were paying Zach, think a lot of teams would love that, including the Kings lmao! Or $12 mill more than Collins or Huerter.

If Coby gets a $40M/year deal, he will no longer be a very valuable trade asset. And he’s probably not one now given his impending UFA status.

Whether his trade value is high isn’t simply a function of whether he’s a good player.

Kind of my point, his trade value isn't a function of whether he's a good player. His trade value is a function of whether other teams SEE him as a good player, and how good and how valuable. To me, the truest expression of a player's value is what that player will draw in an open free agency. If they can get $40 mill, at least one team sees $40 mill worth of value in that player. Value is what the highest bidding team will pay, not the lowest. If you can't get $15 mill, no team with space sees value in adding you at $15 mill. If even 1 team does, your value is at least $15 mill to that team at that time.

There are no hard and fast rules. But you expect a player that draws a $40 mill offer in FA to be more valuable than a player that can only get $20 mill. Everybody's expecting Coby to automatically turn down $20 mill AAV because it's way too low. If that's true, that puts $20 mill below Coby's floor. So he's considered at least a $20 mill player. If the expectation is he's getting $40 mill in free agency, then he must be viewed as a $40 mill player. Him being a restricted FA next summer means any team trading for this $40 mi payer gets a cheap year of him at only $12 mill. That's an advantage over signing him in free agency and not getting the presumably $28 mill cheaper year. This year cap counts too.

Of course there are some $20 mil players better than some $40 mill players, but I think most of us know what we mean like Lavine is legit a $30-$40 mill player, Vuc is legit a $15-25 mill value player in most teams eyes, imo.

What's your estimate of Coby's best offer in FA? That's indicates how much you think other teams value him for straight cap, gives you a basis for trade value. At least in my opinion.

[ChettheJet]

We say the Bucks will of course suck for years after the Giannis trade. Let's look at what they'd have if they made the trade with us (of course they could possibly make better trades with other teams, so they could conceivably be even better)

Re-signed Giddey, Coby White, Vucevic, Ayo plus #12, 2027 pick, 2029 pick for Giannis and Pat Connaughton. Let's just use this price.
Bucks re-sign Gary Trent Jr
Re-sign Lopez to vet min


Bucks roster:

Damian Lillard/Kevin Porter/Ayo
Coby White/Gary Trent Jr/Ayo
Josh Giddey/Pick #12/Andre Jackson
Kyle Kuzma/Bobby Portis/Tyler Smith
Vucevic/Lopez

Coby starts at PG and Trent at SG, Giddey at SF until Lillard returns. Now what if Pick #12 is very good/great?

One first round picks coming in 2026, two first round pics coming in 2027 and 2029

That team could win a good number of games even without Lillard, and with Lillard could be a playoff team. Especially in the East. Adding 1 first round pick in 2025, one in 2026, two in 2027. Young players in White, Giddey, Ayo, Pick 12, Andre Jackson, Tyler Smith plus new rookies, team could get good quick.

And let's face it. They're severely capped on how good they can be without Lillard playing while paying his contract, no matter what trade they do. Hard to fix a $54 mill hole in your cap.

I'm with you on post #528

If I'm rebuilding the Bucks I don't want to be explaining to season ticket buyers that we're trading an MVP that led us to our most recent championship for 3 Chicago Bulls starters who struggled to get to 39 wins and couldn't make it out of the play in 3 years running. And in the process we're keeping Dame because we'd rather go forward with him than Giannis. If I'm one of those fans plunking down the credit card I's asking, THAT'S your plan?

I think almost all the people who want to say Matas is the Bulls' most valuable asset are really overrating their own player evaluation. He's shown that he's got tools and flashes of top line potential. You can afford to label him can't miss, the Bulls can't, other teams are constantly trying to trade unrealized potential as though it was still there. You don't know any more than the Bulls do. It's not a negative that you've seen what Coby White can do and are at the point where you've got to decide if he's going to stay, get better or regress with the big contract. A proven commodity should be part of your roster the same as the low priced potential.

[Infinity2152]

We say the Bucks will of course suck for years after the Giannis trade. Let's look at what they'd have if they made the trade with us (of course they could possibly make better trades with other teams, so they could conceivably be even better)

Re-signed Giddey, Coby White, Vucevic, Ayo plus #12, 2027 pick, 2029 pick for Giannis and Pat Connaughton. Let's just use this price.
Bucks re-sign Gary Trent Jr
Re-sign Lopez to vet min


Bucks roster:

Damian Lillard/Kevin Porter/Ayo
Coby White/Gary Trent Jr/Ayo
Josh Giddey/Pick #12/Andre Jackson
Kyle Kuzma/Bobby Portis/Tyler Smith
Vucevic/Lopez

Coby starts at PG and Trent at SG, Giddey at SF until Lillard returns. Now what if Pick #12 is very good/great?

One first round picks coming in 2026, two first round pics coming in 2027 and 2029

That team could win a good number of games even without Lillard, and with Lillard could be a playoff team. Especially in the East. Adding 1 first round pick in 2025, one in 2026, two in 2027. Young players in White, Giddey, Ayo, Pick 12, Andre Jackson, Tyler Smith plus new rookies, team could get good quick.

And let's face it. They're severely capped on how good they can be without Lillard playing while paying his contract, no matter what trade they do. Hard to fix a $54 mill hole in your cap.

I'm with you on post #528

If I'm rebuilding the Bucks I don't want to be explaining to season ticket buyers that we're trading an MVP that led us to our most recent championship for 3 Chicago Bulls starters who struggled to get to 39 wins and couldn't make it out of the play in 3 years running. And in the process we're keeping Dame because we'd rather go forward with him than Giannis. If I'm one of those fans plunking down the credit card I's asking, THAT'S your plan?

I think almost all the people who want to say Matas is the Bulls' most valuable asset are really overrating their own player evaluation. He's shown that he's got tools and flashes of top line potential. You can afford to label him can't miss, the Bulls can't, other teams are constantly trying to trade unrealized potential as though it was still there. You don't know any more than the Bulls do. It's not a negative that you've seen what Coby White can do and are at the point where you've got to decide if he's going to stay, get better or regress with the big contract. A proven commodity should be part of your roster the same as the low priced potential.

My man, that's a pretty harsh view of our guys, lmao! Matas and Giddey just got here, so the not making it out the play in for 3 years doesn't even reflect them, lol. With our win rate after the Lavine trade, have little doubt if Lavine was traded last offseason, Bulls would have more than 39 wins. Both Giddey and Matas looked way better at the end of the year than the beginning. Coby's looked like a pretty consistent, improving 20 pt area, 3pt shooting guard who's still pretty young. I view his expiring contract as a plus to whatever team is trading for him. They get his full performance for only $12 mill this year, probably allows them to add one or two more players, and have bird rights.

Don't know if paying and keeping Coby would be the right move, but I'm trying to get the equivalent of $40 mill player value in a Coby trade at least. Whether in a star trade, trade for $12 mill young guy and a first, role player and two firsts, that's the value we should be targeting.

[Dan Z]

We say the Bucks will of course suck for years after the Giannis trade. Let's look at what they'd have if they made the trade with us (of course they could possibly make better trades with other teams, so they could conceivably be even better)

Re-signed Giddey, Coby White, Vucevic, Ayo plus #12, 2027 pick, 2029 pick for Giannis and Pat Connaughton. Let's just use this price.
Bucks re-sign Gary Trent Jr
Re-sign Lopez to vet min


Bucks roster:

Damian Lillard/Kevin Porter/Ayo
Coby White/Gary Trent Jr/Ayo
Josh Giddey/Pick #12/Andre Jackson
Kyle Kuzma/Bobby Portis/Tyler Smith
Vucevic/Lopez

Coby starts at PG and Trent at SG, Giddey at SF until Lillard returns. Now what if Pick #12 is very good/great?

One first round picks coming in 2026, two first round pics coming in 2027 and 2029

That team could win a good number of games even without Lillard, and with Lillard could be a playoff team. Especially in the East. Adding 1 first round pick in 2025, one in 2026, two in 2027. Young players in White, Giddey, Ayo, Pick 12, Andre Jackson, Tyler Smith plus new rookies, team could get good quick.

And let's face it. They're severely capped on how good they can be without Lillard playing while paying his contract, no matter what trade they do. Hard to fix a $54 mill hole in your cap.

I'm with you on post #528

If I'm rebuilding the Bucks I don't want to be explaining to season ticket buyers that we're trading an MVP that led us to our most recent championship for 3 Chicago Bulls starters who struggled to get to 39 wins and couldn't make it out of the play in 3 years running. And in the process we're keeping Dame because we'd rather go forward with him than Giannis. If I'm one of those fans plunking down the credit card I's asking, THAT'S your plan?

I think almost all the people who want to say Matas is the Bulls' most valuable asset are really overrating their own player evaluation. He's shown that he's got tools and flashes of top line potential. You can afford to label him can't miss, the Bulls can't, other teams are constantly trying to trade unrealized potential as though it was still there. You don't know any more than the Bulls do. It's not a negative that you've seen what Coby White can do and are at the point where you've got to decide if he's going to stay, get better or regress with the big contract. A proven commodity should be part of your roster the same as the low priced potential.

My man, that's a pretty harsh view of our guys, lmao! Matas and Giddey just got here, so the not making it out the play in for 3 years doesn't even reflect them, lol. With our win rate after the Lavine trade, have little doubt if Lavine was traded last offseason, Bulls would have more than 39 wins. Both Giddey and Matas looked way better at the end of the year than the beginning. Coby's looked like a pretty consistent, improving 20 pt area, 3pt shooting guard who's still pretty young. I view his expiring contract as a plus to whatever team is trading for him. They get his full performance for only $12 mill this year, probably allows them to add one or two more players, and have bird rights.

Don't know if paying and keeping Coby would be the right move, but I'm trying to get the equivalent of $40 mill player value in a Coby trade at least. Whether in a star trade, trade for $12 mill young guy and a first, role player and two firsts, that's the value we should be targeting.

In the scenario mentioned above Coby's $12 million dollar salary won't help the Bucks "add a player or two". However, I agree that he'd give them a year to see how he does and if they want to re-sign him, but if I was the GM I'd probably re-route him for assets (then again I wouldn't do that trade with the Bulls).

[kodo]

Lakers are so desperate for scoring they're playing Kleber who hasn't played in 3 months in the first quarter. They might actually be interested in Vuc.

[GuardianEnzo]

The Lakers have an extremely brief window and they're as likely as anybody to do something off the wall. They've already tried to dump Knecht once - I'd see if there was some way to grab him facilitating a larger three-way deal or the like.

[The Box Office]

If I'm rebuilding the Bucks I don't want to be explaining to season ticket buyers that we're trading an MVP that led us to our most recent championship for 3 Chicago Bulls starters who struggled to get to 39 wins and couldn't make it out of the play in 3 years running. And in the process we're keeping Dame because we'd rather go forward with him than Giannis. If I'm one of those fans plunking down the credit card I's asking, THAT'S your plan?

I think almost all the people who want to say Matas is the Bulls' most valuable asset are really overrating their own player evaluation. He's shown that he's got tools and flashes of top line potential. You can afford to label him can't miss, the Bulls can't, other teams are constantly trying to trade unrealized potential as though it was still there. You don't know any more than the Bulls do. It's not a negative that you've seen what Coby White can do and are at the point where you've got to decide if he's going to stay, get better or regress with the big contract. A proven commodity should be part of your roster the same as the low priced potential.

For the bolded, that's not our problem in this business. Let them worry about that. Hey, Dallas traded away Luka. Dallas Mavs didn't care. Grizz traded away young Pau Gasol in exchange for peanuts.

I agree, yes, Matas overrated by this board. He hasn't shown much. We cannot hype up this kid averaging 8.6 points, 3.5 boards, and 1 assists. My apologies, dudes and dudettes.

Coby White can leave. He's shown enough. It's what I knew during his rookie year: an undersized 2 guard who can't play defense and terrible facilitator. He cannot dictate the tempo of the offense.