LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche - La Going to LA

[pancakes3]

i'd probably hate lebron less if he was a thug cuz thugs don't give a f*. it's the desperate, calculated, unbridled urge to make the world worship (not just like, or respect. kowtow and flat out worship) him that gets my goat. it's the self appointed, self populated, self aggrandized nickname King James that ticks me off.

i don't really mind tattoos on black people. you can hardly see them anyway.

slightly off topic: when had to bandage his arms back in HS it drew a lot more attention to the fact that he was tatted up than anything.

further off topic still: i have a good acquaintance who was an all-american wrestler at St V-M where LBJ played his HS hoops. Apparently there was an altercation in the hallway between the wrasslers and the hoopsters and the principal pretty much said to my good acquaintance that the next time something happened, even if lebron teabagged his mamma, there will be no retaliation. that's lebron freakin james. are you out of your freakin mind? or something to that effect.

[Severn Hoos]

This is all semantics. If you hate LeBron because of some preconceived notion you have about black NBA players (they're all "thugs"), that's racist. If you hate LeBron because of the vast available evidence that he's a douche, that's not racist, that's being observant.

I mean yeah, there were idiots out there calling Gilbert Arenas a thug. Are you kidding me? Anyone who says that clearly knows nothing about Gil and is making a judgement based solely on preconceptions. That's racist. Duh!

From what I've seen, the majority of people who espouse this thinking are not NBA fans and will quickly say so. Usually followed by extolling the virtues of the college game in an aria that would bring a tear to the eye of Dickie V.

In this discussion, I consider those people irrelevant because they are not NBA fans anyway.

For those who do follow the NBA, are fans of The Game, and still have a strong dislike for LeBron and/or his antics, I have to agree with Zonk - that's just being observant.

[DCZards]

From what I've seen, the majority of people who espouse this thinking are not NBA fans and will quickly say so. Usually followed by extolling the virtues of the college game in an aria that would bring a tear to the eye of Dickie V.

In this discussion, I consider those people irrelevant because they are not NBA fans anyway.

For those who do follow the NBA, are fans of The Game, and still have a strong dislike for LeBron and/or his antics, I have to agree with Zonk - that's just being observant.

I agree. Just as I don't believe that those on this board who "hate" Lebron do so for racial reasons, like you, sev, I don't believe most hardcore NBA fans dislike Lebron because of his race. I'm really talking about those folks who don't like the NBA period...sometimes for racial/cultural reasons.

However, I don't consider those people "irrelevant," because their opinions shape perceptions of Lebron and the NBA just as much as yours and mine.

[Nivek]

I'm talking about people who ARE NBA fans. NBA fans are not immune to filtering perceptions based on subtle biases based on socioeconomic, racial or cultural cues.

Despite zonker's (and pine's) efforts to make the issue a simple "racist/not racist" test, it ain't that simple. What I'm talking about are the gut-level reactions -- the implicit biases that people are not even necessarily consciously aware of.

And if you think you're immune to these implicit biases, you're wrong. That part, at least, is simple. Now, if you've done some work to identify your biases and try to be conscious of them, then maybe you can correct for them. Except, the tendency there is often to over-correct, so...

[montestewart]

implicit bias self-testing (click "demonstration" and follow links to tests)

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

[pineappleheadindc]

^

Really?

I try to be introspective. But...

1) Do I hate all black athletes? No, my fave athetes have been black. Gilbert, Shaq, Larry Hughes, Chris Whitne (sorry everyone) in the NBA world.

2) Do I hate black athletes who exercise their legal right to free agency? Look at Shaq for instance. No. (And of course, Gilbert came here as a free agent).

3) Do I hate black athletes who have tats? No, look at Larry. And, by the way, I LOVED Rodman.

4) Do I hate black athletes who are great athletes? Not really. I love Magic, my original NBA hero is Dr. J.

Quite honestly, isn't is possible that people just hate Lebron because he's a douche?

[Nivek]

Of course it's possible for people to hate Lebron because they think he's a douche. The question, of course, is why they think Lebron is a douche. The Decision, talking about himself in the third person, self-aggrandizing statements -- those are things that many would say are douchey. I don't like those things, but I don't think that makes him a douche. Just kinda annoying. But that's just me.

My thinking on the Lebron vitriol is that there are several factors. One is that he doesn't behave publicly in a way that feels authentic. He seems like a phony. His statements and actions seem calculated. Almost like he's a politician, except not nearly as smooth as the good (meaning effective) ones.

Another factor is the colossal PR miscalculation. The Decision was a terrible blunder. Had he stayed in Cleveland, it would have been a celebration. Hometown kid stays to bring a championship back to Ohio. Miami, New York, etc. would have been disappointed for a few days, and then they'd have moved on.

Yet another factor is the Internet echo chamber. Folks don't just have opinions any more. They read what others put up on the net, and then try to top it. Lebron transmogrifies from a garden variety self-centered dick into someone to be loathed and hated.

Still another factor are those implicit biases. They're real, they color what people perceive. They affect what we think of what others do and say. They help explain why actions from one person are perfectly okay with us, but similar actions from someone else are unacceptable. Are these biases everything? Of course not. And of course EVERYONE here on the Wizards board is entirely immune to them because we're such an enlightened, educated, thoughtful group. But, for the rest of hoi polloi, implicit biases have an effect. And, it's impossible that those biases don't affect what they think of Lebron.

[pineappleheadindc]

^
Another factor the the exact opposite of the echo chamber you cite. It's the fact that the echo chamber, led by the slobbering ESPN crew, figuratively fellates Lebron at every opportunity. That people get sick and tired of the fawning and slobbering. And, rightly or wrongly, take it out on Lebron.

It's like I'm glad the Wilbon is gone from the Post and most local outlets. Unfairly to the Bulls, I was getting pretty sick and tired of Wilbon's Chicago-centric outlook while being based in DC and had started to really dislike the Bulls a bit only because of the Wilbon hype.

[gesa2]

I'm sure that I am biased. We all are. I've hated LeBron ever since he poked Gilbert in the chest at the foul line in the playoffs. Is it because I'm afraid of black violence? Or does arrogance and doucheness bother me more in a black man than a white? I don't think so, but who knows? Maybe I should spend some time thinking about it. But until the finals are over, I'm just gonna hate.

Self evaluation -- later.
LeBron hate --that's for now.

[BigA]

I really started to dislike Lebron because of the specific incidents from those playoff series with the Wizards. The poke. The crab-dribble. The whining ("they're trying to hurt me!").

And I guess the thing that's become clearer over time, even though it was pretty clear when he was in high school, is that he's a corporate phony. And the other figure in contemporary sports that strikes me as being just as big of an arrogant corporate phony is Lance Armstrong. Who I don't think has tattoos. And who, surprisingly, looks like he's going to get what's coming to him, which is fine with me.

I wouldn't say I hate Lebron. Poking fun at him is amusing, as on this thread. Especially to the extent that his fanboys get upset. It's fun rooting against him. The fact that he's an immensely talented player makes it more fun. As David Stern slowly turns the NBA into the WWE, Lebron is replacing Kobe as the uber heel. I'd have less contempt for him if he actually embraced that role.

I would consider it cosmic justice for Deshawn Stevenson to win a ring before Lebron, playing in the finals against him. In the post-Gerald Wallace wasteland of Wizards-fandom, the Soulja Boy game was one of the few highlights.

Finally, I'm comforted with the knowledge that although Lebron went south, his mom rode West.

[doclinkin]

The fact that LeBron is black makes me dislike all black folks, on principle. Same way Christian Laettner made me dislike white folks.

[doclinkin]

I really started to dislike Lebron because of the specific incidents from those playoff series with the Wizards. The poke. The crab-dribble. The whining ("they're trying to hurt me!").

And I guess the thing that's become clearer over time, even though it was pretty clear when he was in high school, is that he's a corporate phony. And the other figure in contemporary sports that strikes me as being just as big of an arrogant corporate phony is Lance Armstrong. Who I don't think has tattoos. And who, surprisingly, looks like he's going to get what's coming to him, which is fine with me.

I wouldn't say I hate Lebron. Poking fun at him is amusing, as on this thread. Especially to the extent that his fanboys get upset. It's fun rooting against him. The fact that he's an immensely talented player makes it more fun. As David Stern slowly turns the NBA into the WWE, Lebron is replacing Kobe as the uber heel. I'd have less contempt for him if he actually embraced that role.

I would consider it cosmic justice for Deshawn Stevenson to win a ring before Lebron, playing in the finals against him. In the post-Gerald Wallace wasteland of Wizards-fandom, the Soulja Boy game was one of the few highlights.

Finally, I'm comforted with the knowledge that although Lebron went south, his mom rode West.

[verbal8]

The fact that LeBron is black makes me dislike all black folks, on principle. Same way Christian Laettner made me dislike white folks.

Does Yi make you dislike Asians?

[verbal8]

implicit bias self-testing (click "demonstration" and follow links to tests)

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

Apparently I don't like white people(
Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for African American compared to European American.). So maybe that is why I don't want the Wizards to pick Vesley.

[montestewart]

implicit bias self-testing (click "demonstration" and follow links to tests)

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

Apparently I don't like white people(
Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for African American compared to European American.). So maybe that is why I don't want the Wizards to pick Vesley.

George Lincoln Rockwell is spinning in his grave.

[Nivek]

When I did that implicit bias test, I came out with a very slight preference toward African-Americans. White guilt, I guess. Or, maybe it's because I'm in love with a black woman.

[DCZards]

When I did that implicit bias test, I came out with a very slight preference toward African-Americans. White guilt, I guess. Or, maybe it's because I'm in love with a black woman.

You know what they say, nivek: "Once you go black you can't go back."

[Zonkerbl]

See, what I don't like about this conversation is it's an attempt to deny me my hatred of LeBron. My LeBron hatred is sacred.

Anyway, it's fan hate. I hate LeBron because he beat my favorite team by cheating, and he's a whiner. Simple as that. And he eats his fingernails, ew. Beat my team fair and square by being better (Dwyane Wade, for example) and I admire you. Beat them by whining and cheating, I hate you. That's a perfectly legit reason for hating a player. I hated Michael Jordan for the same reason -- if you breathed on him, it was a foul, and my beloved Charles Barkley lost to him, not because he was a better player, but because he earned about five extra free throws a game from the blatant referee bias.

I can't speak for why other people hate LeBron. But you leave my hate alone.

[REDardWIZskin]

My hate as every other wizard fan really ramped up on the Jordan style officiating he received and traveling game winning shots he made in the playoffs against us. But after the decision the hate for him was so overt and disgusting that it wasn't even fun to hate him anymore as much. Its like everyone was jumping on the he didn't come to our team so we hate him bandwagon and I thought it was kind of lame.
Although i will say that the most recent episode against LBJ in which they (the heat) were frustrated that our D league select team (our wizards) was competing with them and started to get chippy (the game Jimmy was ejected) reignited some of my hatred but it was more against the entire team now than LBJ.
Great posts BTW Kevin, made some really good points about "the gut-level reactions -- the implicit biases that people are not even necessarily consciously aware of."

[montestewart]

I hate LeBJ for throwing scads of cocaine to the wind before every game, rather than sharing some with me.