The Gordon Hayward Thread

[LofJ]

Have there been any reports that suggested that Utah might not match?

None that I've seen, they've all been the opposite - that Utah intends to match. They have around $24 million in available cap space so they can very much afford to match and still have enough to maintain flexibility.

[HornetJail]

I'd much rather throw an over pay (which would still only be like 1/3 or half of that money) at someone like Marrion or Vince Carter for a year than tie up that kind of money in this guy. Could probably get guys like Marrion and Carter both for less than that. Still need some PF help as well. Marrion could even pull some minutes there.

I think we'd be able to sign both for half of the $16M we're trying up in Hayward

You would have hoped, but have you seen this market? Marrion was projected at 6 million back in Febuary by ESPN. That's probably more like 7 or 8 now with Frye getting 8. Gordon got 4.5 million a year. Vince wouldn't be playing if he didn't still want some money.

I think this idiocy will stop eventually. These are absolutely ridiculous offers, mostly by teams with terrible management. Gordon and Frye to ORL for $12.5M combined? Jodie Meeks getting $6M from Detroit? The only reason these players are signing now is they know they'll never receive offers like that ever again.

Marion and Carter will probably sign for a total of about $8M-$10M at most. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see both latch on to a contender like OKC combining for the MLE.

[LofJ]

I actually think we're making a much bigger deal about this offer than we should. I would be very surprised if Utah doesn't match and there is no way we're sending out MKG for the pleasure of paying Hayward this much. So in a few days time we'll be moving on to the next free agents that the team is targeting.

[3960HOOD]

For the love of god I hope we do not match! It was posted on our board that historically his PER and overall stats compare to 3 players and it was Mike Miller, Mike Dunleavy Jr and Caron Butler.

[princeofpalace]

Realgmers are consistently wrong when it comes to players worth.

Every year we decry that player X can never be moved unless he comes with serious value because of his contract and yet every year player X gets moved for something of value.

Every year we say that player Y is only worth 10-12 million and every year player Y gets a max contract.

When it comes to $$ figures clearly realgm is out of touch. The market has been set, the Haywards, Monroes, Bledsoes of the NBA will command max money.

[vorbis]

I gotta say, I am totally with the Hornets fans skeptical (to be nice) about signing Hayward to that kind of coin, but this is a fascinating move for the Hornets.

as a personnel decision, Hayward really fits this roster well. he would replicate a lot of what McRoberts did for the halfcourt offense without having to change his game drastically. maybe his shot will be consistent more along the lines of his first 3 seasons in the league than last season. he would bring plus size to the 2 position, if that's where he ends up, or adequate size to the 3, allowing for either MKG or Henderson to be a supersub (most here would prefer Henderson sits).

as a tactical move, it's kind of mad genius type stuff. if you don't think it was a bold, effective tactical move (irrespective of whether Hayward is worth the contract), ask a local Jazz fan how their food is digesting this morning. the numbers on the contract look steep because they would have to be to force Utah's hand. thanks to this offer sheet, the Jazz basically have to really 1) accept a contract for Hayward almost $4M/yr north of their last offer to him. 2) commit to Hayward long term (and likely keep him for the duration of the contract thanks to that trade kicker), but they also have to 3) make a bet that the NBA will re-negotiate the CBA in two seasons in a way that significantly hikes the salary cap, giving them breathing room to add skilled veterans to their young core.

so, I guess what I'm saying is, as iffy as I feel about Hayward playing for the Hornets under a max contract, I can step back and respect the cojones of the offer itself. any "Jordan is cheap" garbage surely looks ill-sighted now.

[MasterIchiro]

Any baseball fans out there? This is chump change. I'm numb to it. The NBA is every bit as lucrative as MLB. The Clippers are worth 2 billion bucks? More than most baseball teams.

The NBA is changing. Contracts are escalating because agents know their clients are worth more today than ever. It's shocking initially but you get used to it.

I went through the same thing with baseball and still sometimes can't believe the money these guys get.

[JDR720]

Any baseball fans out there? This is chump change. I'm numb to it. The NBA is every bit as lucrative as MLB. The Clippers are worth 2 billion bucks? More than most baseball teams.

The NBA is changing. Contracts are escalating because agents know their clients are worth more today than ever. It's shocking initially but you get used to it.

I went through the same thing with baseball and still sometimes can't believe the money these guys get.

Yea, if you want some crazy contracts go look at the MLB, heck even the NHL has crazier contracts than the NBA

[Flip Murray]

Hayward was getting max money no matter what. We just jumped on him before the hail mary teams on the Lebron/Bosh/Melo bandwagon got a chance to move on to him. Once all those teams failed to get those guys they would've moved on to Hayward. I don't know if its a smart move but it definitely isn't above his market value.

[JDR720]

Gordon's "max" contract isn't even that much, its just gets to 16 million in his 3rd year and he should be entering his prime around that time, he should get All-Star consideration in the East also

[MasterIchiro]

Exactly. I don't see how anyone can say Hayward's offer is above market value when this market is so fresh and new. We have to see how much the rest of the players sign for to get a true picture of the whole market, then we can judge if this offer fits in with current market conditions or defies it, sticks out like an irrational outlier. I've seen enough hints along the way so far to draw my conclusions (ie Ben Gordon).

[LofJ]

I like the signals that this deal sends out to the rest of the league. It says that Jordan is willing to spend to put a winning team on the court. We're willing to pay guys more than they're worth if needs be to be competitive with the top teams in the East. Lance Stephenson's agent has to be seeing dollar signs right about now, and I am willing to bet that we're going to be reaching out to him today about offering Lance a lucrative deal if Utah decides to match our offer.

[MasterIchiro]

BTW, Mr. Know It All, how about our bet? You feeling it yet?

[MasterIchiro]

The market for Lance (as stated on the realGM wiretap) is Mavericks, Lakers, Celtics

Lance is leftovers for every one of those teams pursuing him, so none can make him feel 'wanted' like Big Al.

Mavs - Melo
Lakers - Melo, Lebron
Celtics - Love

The Suns I guess can take the angle of 'we love you and only you Lance'.

[yosemiteben]

Any baseball fans out there? This is chump change. I'm numb to it. The NBA is every bit as lucrative as MLB. The Clippers are worth 2 billion bucks? More than most baseball teams.

The NBA is changing. Contracts are escalating because agents know their clients are worth more today than ever. It's shocking initially but you get used to it.

I went through the same thing with baseball and still sometimes can't believe the money these guys get.

Baseball is irrelevant because they don't have a salary cap.

[Diop]

Suns should just stick to the 2 guards they've got

[MasterIchiro]

Any baseball fans out there? This is chump change. I'm numb to it. The NBA is every bit as lucrative as MLB. The Clippers are worth 2 billion bucks? More than most baseball teams.

The NBA is changing. Contracts are escalating because agents know their clients are worth more today than ever. It's shocking initially but you get used to it.

I went through the same thing with baseball and still sometimes can't believe the money these guys get.

Baseball is irrelevant because they don't have a salary cap.

They have a luxury tax though and just last year the team with the highest valuation (New York Yankees, of course) considered severely limiting their spending to remain under the threshold.

The general trend is, as team revenues escalate in team sports, agents devise calculations to win their clients a greater share of those revenues. Contracts values are increasing significantly in this market due to the rising revenues around the NBA. This market has formed in the wake of a 2 billion dollar sale of the Clippers.

MJ has been recently declared a billionaire, you know, the guy who bought the LOLcats. This 'overpay' to Hayward represents a little revenue sharing so to speak. It's MJ's money, there's no short supply. The GM knows the importance of the rebrand and the implications of compelling fans to pay money for tickets and follow the team.

When my phone call came in yesterday, I told you we were close.

The fans have already paid for talent, what shape that talent takes is up to the GM.

[mrknowitall215]

BTW, Mr. Know It All, how about our bet? You feeling it yet?

I'm still confident about it. I knew Hayward would be overpaid since he's a RFA and that's why I didn't seriously consider him as a option, nor did I recommend him to be a option at that price, but lo & behold, here we go. The only saving grace will be if Utah matches this offer. Otherwise, Hayward will be one of the worst contracts in the league by 2014-15 season's end. Well, he's going to be that regardless, but I just hope it's not in a Hornets uniform

[BobsBuddy]

..HotDamn Cho..You got Balls.I know your strategy now..Brillant Strategy...
Don't worry I will not leak out.
GO FOR IT whether PLAN A or B or Both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MasterIchiro]

BTW, Mr. Know It All, how about our bet? You feeling it yet?

I'm still confident about it. I knew Hayward would be overpaid since he's a RFA and that's why I didn't seriously consider him as a option, nor did I recommend him to be a option at that price, but lo & behold, here we go. The only saving grace will be if Utah matches this offer. Otherwise, Hayward will be one of the worst contracts in the league by 2014-15 season's end. Well, he's going to be that regardless, but I just hope it's not in a Hornets uniform

Of course you are, that's what I like about you.