Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[gambitx777]

Would Wizards fans do Nene + Gortat + Oubre for Love + Mozgov?

I don't think Cleveland needs Gortat.

I think they need a big that can switch on to perimeter players and versatile wings who can play with Lebron and allow him to move to the 4 in big stretches, as well as to the 5 against Golden State's death lineup. Cleveland's best and only counter to Draymond at the 5 is Lebron.

Nene would help them. He can switched better than any of their bigs.

Dudley would help them. He's an ideal role player, smart defender, and the 4th best 3 point shooter in the league this year. He'd off open looks from that Kyrie/Lebron pick and roll.

As much as I'd like Cleveland to take Beal, they don't need him -- and his impending payday this summer is probably really unattractive to them given their tax situation.

The guy who would really help them and they should want is Otto Porter. His smarts and defensive versatility, his board work and shooting would be a great fit there. Plus, they can put off paying him for a year, and by then the cap will have gone up another 20%.

Nene + Dudley + Porter for Love and Mozgov worked under the CBA and saves CLeveland a big chunk on their luxtax bill. I don't love losing Otto, but Love is the better player and who knows what kind of deal we'd be forced into making to keep Otto in a year-plus. ANd perhaps there's some hope that Oubre could learn fast.

As far as the Durant pipe dream goes, if KD decides to sign here, we can just renounce Beal's cap hold and have enough space for Durant (yes?)

At that point we loose beal for nothing.
I feel like if we are going after love We should just do Beal+nene and a future protected first and tell them to take it or leave it. Then we can go out and try to get a beal and nene replacement. There are guys on the street that can give us what nene does and guys like Hickson, deadman or plumlee could be had pretty cheaply. Replacing beal might mean giving up a first or something to get a guy like barton or McCollum. or taking a flyer on trading for a rookie or young guy who does not get a lot of burn on their current team. Like R.J. Hunter or James Young. The fact is, Beal and NENE are replaceable but they still have value. We should not give up Otto or Porter. Those two are much harder to replace than Beal or NENE.

[fishercob]

Would Wizards fans do Nene + Gortat + Oubre for Love + Mozgov?

I don't think Cleveland needs Gortat.

I think they need a big that can switch on to perimeter players and versatile wings who can play with Lebron and allow him to move to the 4 in big stretches, as well as to the 5 against Golden State's death lineup. Cleveland's best and only counter to Draymond at the 5 is Lebron.

Nene would help them. He can switched better than any of their bigs.

Dudley would help them. He's an ideal role player, smart defender, and the 4th best 3 point shooter in the league this year. He'd off open looks from that Kyrie/Lebron pick and roll.

As much as I'd like Cleveland to take Beal, they don't need him -- and his impending payday this summer is probably really unattractive to them given their tax situation.

The guy who would really help them and they should want is Otto Porter. His smarts and defensive versatility, his board work and shooting would be a great fit there. Plus, they can put off paying him for a year, and by then the cap will have gone up another 20%.

Nene + Dudley + Porter for Love and Mozgov worked under the CBA and saves CLeveland a big chunk on their luxtax bill. I don't love losing Otto, but Love is the better player and who knows what kind of deal we'd be forced into making to keep Otto in a year-plus. ANd perhaps there's some hope that Oubre could learn fast.

As far as the Durant pipe dream goes, if KD decides to sign here, we can just renounce Beal's cap hold and have enough space for Durant (yes?)

At that point we loose beal for nothing.
I feel like if we are going after love We should just do Beal+nene and a future protected first and tell them to take it or leave it. Then we can go out and try to get a beal and nene replacement. There are guys on the street that can give us what nene does and guys like Hickson, deadman or plumlee could be had pretty cheaply. Replacing beal might mean giving up a first or something to get a guy like barton or McCollum. or taking a flyer on trading for a rookie or young guy who does not get a lot of burn on their current team. Like R.J. Hunter or James Young. The fact is, Beal and NENE are replaceable but they still have value. We should not give up Otto or Porter. Those two are much harder to replace than Beal or NENE.

You don't lose Beal for nothinng; you essentially trade Beal for Durant, which you do 100 times out of 100.

And I love Otto, but you don't get players like Love for free.

Nene and Duley are expiring and won't be here next year.

Cleveland will have no interest in Oubre or future picks. They want players who will help them win NOW.

[sashae]

Nene, Anderson and Humphries to Phoenix for Markieff Morris and Tyson Chandler.

Phoenix gets the opportunity to dump the contract of Tyson Chandler, who has looked slow and unmotivated in a bad situation in Phoenix at the cost of Markieff Morris (who's disgruntled regardless, even if he's the best player in the deal.)

Washington returns three expirings, and Phoenix is then able to be a huge player in FA as well as actually roll in the huge number of draft picks over the next few years.

[stevemcqueen1]

Would Wizards fans do Nene + Gortat + Oubre for Love + Mozgov?

I don't think Cleveland needs Gortat.
...

The guy who would really help them and they should want is Otto Porter. His smarts and defensive versatility, his board work and shooting would be a great fit there. Plus, they can put off paying him for a year, and by then the cap will have gone up another 20%.

Cleveland doesn't need an 8 win share center signed to a long term bargain contract?

What happens if Cleveland draws San Antonio in the Finals instead of Golden State?

I think you're partially right about them probably being less desirous of Beal because of his impending free agency and the stress their tax situation puts on signing new contracts. But make no mistake, they'd be able to use a young SG that's proven he can drop 25, 5, and 5 and be the best player in a playoff series, plus shoot 40% from deep. Beal would help them make a run this season and he'd be a significant long term weapon if they kept him.

I would prefer to deal Otto instead of Gortat or Beal, but I think both of them would be more attractive options in trade to Cleveland than Otto. For one thing, they're simply more valuable than him period. And they contribute to a title run for Cleveland right now, whereas Otto's value is still heavily based on his potential. And Otto has the same natural position as LeBron.

If Beal's contract situation dings his value to Cleveland, then I think Gortat is our best chip. I would prefer to deal Gortat over Beal anyway.

Cleveland doesn't really have a bunch of specific roster needs because they're already good. Their biggest needs are to:

1.) Get out of a bad situation brewing with Kevin Love
2.) Start cutting salary to lessen the tax burden
3.) Balance out the roster
4.) Find an affordable and credible center

Nene + Dudley + Porter for Love and Mozgov worked under the CBA and saves CLeveland a big chunk on their luxtax bill. I don't love losing Otto, but Love is the better player and who knows what kind of deal we'd be forced into making to keep Otto in a year-plus. ANd perhaps there's some hope that Oubre could learn fast.

Yes, they could certainly use all of the players in your offer. But the problem with this is that Cleveland loses both their C and PF in the move and only brings in Nene. They have legitimate title aspirations this season. They can't put themselves in a position where they'll have to rely on Nene and Varejao to play a bunch of minutes for them. They need a real center, they can't play Thompson there full time.

I think Nene + Gortat is a better basis for a trade for both sides. I'd include Dudley too if they needed more. I agree with you that he'd be an outstanding fit for them. But then it's starting to feel like they should have to send us something useful back because Dudley is useful to us as well. Without him, we can't put three high end three point shooters on the floor with Wall even if we add Love.

[stevemcqueen1]

Another one:

What should our stomach be for taking back Varejao's deal?

What if Cleveland offered:

1 - Gortat
2 - Nene
3 - Dudley

for

1 - Love
2 - Varejao

Do we say yes?

[sashae]

Personally, I wouldn't -- Gortat has proven to be durable and productive, and honestly I'm not sure if Love is /that/ much better in comparison. Yes, Love clearly is /better/ but I'm not sure he's so much of an improvement as to rate getting stuck with Varejao, especially considering how much of a bargain Gortat is.

[Ruzious]

I think all these Cleveland trades have some merit for Washington, but Cleveland wouldn't do them. There's just not enough incentive for them to trade Love.

[nuposse04]

How bout Jon Leur... maybe PHX has no intention to retain him and would take.... we have nothing to offer outside of 2nd rounders. They just signed Cory Jefferson again, so it does seem a bit suspicious to me. They already have 3 S4s, why sign another? Maybe Morris going to be moved soon?

[stevemcqueen1]

I think all these Cleveland trades have some merit for Washington, but Cleveland wouldn't do them. There's just not enough incentive for them to trade Love.

I don't know, Kevin Love called LeBron out by name in the media. LeBron is on a one year deal and he's their de facto GM and head coach. The situation is becoming poisonous. It's ended up being a mistake to trade for him in hindsight, and it's compounded by their horrible tax situation. I think they'd trade Love tomorrow if someone offered them an acceptable out, particularly since they already have Love's replacement on the roster and signed long term.

The question for me is what's the market for Love? Seems like everybody would want him, but his Cleveland stint slapped a big old buyer beware sign on him. The old empty numbers on a bad team stink is back, and he'll scare a lot of teams away through his reputation of being a malcontent. He can have his agent make a short list of teams and influence his market similar to how he did last time.

I wonder if we'd qualify for his short list?

Pass first PG. He'd get to be the first scoring option. He'd presumably make us a playoff team. Don't know how true this is, but he supposedly has a fondness for the city and franchise because of his dad's history here.

But he also wants to play on the West Coast. And we're a middle of the road team. He'd have to bet on himself that he could take us to the next level.

[stevemcqueen1]

Personally, I wouldn't -- Gortat has proven to be durable and productive, and honestly I'm not sure if Love is /that/ much better in comparison. Yes, Love clearly is /better/ but I'm not sure he's so much of an improvement as to rate getting stuck with Varejao, especially considering how much of a bargain Gortat is.

Varejao's contract is a turd sandwich. No getting around that. Essentially a ten million dollar cap handicap this summer. Pretty sure it'd end our ability to court Kevin Durant too.

It'd also effectively cap our season off as first round out at best, because we'd have zero credible center on the roster.

But I think I'm OK with that if we moved forward with a Wall/Beal/Otto/Oubre/Love group as our foundation. Sign Zaza Pachulia and Bismack Biyombo this summer and that seems like a pretty complete team headed in to next year.

And the more I think about it, the more I like that deal for Cleveland too.

1 - Gets them out of a deteriorating Kevin Love situation
2 - Gets them out of the awful Varejao contract
3 - Gets them a big expiring tied to a useful player in Nene
4 - Gets them a quality, bargain priced center for the long term
5 - Gets them a dead eye shooting wing that is currently hitting over 46% from deep.
6 - Pretty much guarantees they'll beat the Bulls in a playoff series, currently the only thing resembling a rival for them in the conference
7 - Helps them match up against a big San Antonio team, and doesn't hurt them at all in a match up against Golden State

I think the fact that it immediately cuts 20+ million in payroll for the next two summers and saves them God knows how many tens of millions in luxury tax penalties is reason alone for them to consider the deal.

[LyricalRico]

Holy crap yes! Ain't gonna happen, though.

But Mosgov would be out of here at the end of the season

I would doubt EG would go for it as it would limit the KD2DC push?

Yeah it takes us from a very good situation at center to a very poor one. My justification is that, if Love gets back closer to what he was in Minny by changing situations, then it'd be worth it to upgrade from Gortat to Love. If not, well, we weren't going to compete for a title off of Gortat's back anyway. It's a good gamble IMO.

Hopefully Ernie would be realistic about our tiny chance of signing Durant and wouldn't pass up an opportunity to buy low on a player like Kevin Love because of it. A team that keeps Wall, Otto, and Beal and brings in Love wouldn't prioritize signing KD either. Center would be the big priority.

I also would agree that it's worth the gamble since it's essentially Gortat+Oubre for Love with the other expirings cancelling themselves out. I'm against the concept of adding middle-of-the-road talent on longterm deals with the assumption that they can quickly be moved to make room for KD, but for a star big like Love I'd be willing to add salary.

And we'd still be able to sign-and-trade Beal to fill out the roster. Maybe to Sacto for WCS+McLemore+pick? Gives us a young big and a stop-gap wing. There's probably other similar options if I perused the checker.

To me the team that says "no" is Cleveland.

[stevemcqueen1]

Just checked and the final year of Varejao's deal isn't guaranteed. It's only a one and a half season handicap. I'd pull the trigger on March + Dudley + Nene for Love + Varejao. We'd still have the money to pursue a passable center this summer. ****... Roy Hibbert anyone? Tyler Zeller?

[stevemcqueen1]

But Mosgov would be out of here at the end of the season

I would doubt EG would go for it as it would limit the KD2DC push?

Yeah it takes us from a very good situation at center to a very poor one. My justification is that, if Love gets back closer to what he was in Minny by changing situations, then it'd be worth it to upgrade from Gortat to Love. If not, well, we weren't going to compete for a title off of Gortat's back anyway. It's a good gamble IMO.

Hopefully Ernie would be realistic about our tiny chance of signing Durant and wouldn't pass up an opportunity to buy low on a player like Kevin Love because of it. A team that keeps Wall, Otto, and Beal and brings in Love wouldn't prioritize signing KD either. Center would be the big priority.

I also would agree that it's worth the gamble since it's essentially Gortat+Oubre for Love with the other expirings cancelling themselves out. I'm against the concept of adding middle-of-the-road talent on longterm deals with the assumption that they can quickly be moved to make room for KD, but for a star big like Love I'd be willing to add salary.

And we'd still be able to sign-and-trade Beal to fill out the roster. Maybe to Sacto for WCS+McLemore+pick? Gives us a young big and a stop-gap wing. There's probably other similar options if I perused the checker.

To me the team that says "no" is Cleveland.

You're probably right. But Love isn't as starry as he was when Cleveland traded for him.

And if LeBron walks into David Griffin's office and says "you need to trade this dude," then anything can happen.

[Ruzious]

Well, Love's productivity and efficiency has continued to go down with Cleveland, so I suppose it's possible to get him. The good thing about going after Tyler Zeller in free agency is that he'll be cheap - as Boston's hardly playing him, and his stats have fallen way off. As always, I prefer his brother, but I don't know how available Cody is. Maybe Hibbs would make sense since we wouldn't need scoring from the center position, but he's close to a disaster in LAL - I'd say no - but other options should come up.

[mademan]

Personally, I wouldn't -- Gortat has proven to be durable and productive, and honestly I'm not sure if Love is /that/ much better in comparison. Yes, Love clearly is /better/ but I'm not sure he's so much of an improvement as to rate getting stuck with Varejao, especially considering how much of a bargain Gortat is.

Varejao's contract is a turd sandwich. No getting around that. Essentially a ten million dollar cap handicap this summer. Pretty sure it'd end our ability to court Kevin Durant too.

It'd also effectively cap our season off as first round out at best, because we'd have zero credible center on the roster.

But I think I'm OK with that if we moved forward with a Wall/Beal/Otto/Oubre/Love group as our foundation. Sign Zaza Pachulia and Bismack Biyombo this summer and that seems like a pretty complete team headed in to next year.

And the more I think about it, the more I like that deal for Cleveland too.

1 - Gets them out of a deteriorating Kevin Love situation
2 - Gets them out of the awful Varejao contract
3 - Gets them a big expiring tied to a useful player in Nene
4 - Gets them a quality, bargain priced center for the long term
5 - Gets them a dead eye shooting wing that is currently hitting over 46% from deep.
6 - Pretty much guarantees they'll beat the Bulls in a playoff series, currently the only thing resembling a rival for them in the conference
7 - Helps them match up against a big San Antonio team, and doesn't hurt them at all in a match up against Golden State

I think the fact that it immediately cuts 20+ million in payroll for the next two summers and saves them God knows how many tens of millions in luxury tax penalties is reason alone for them to consider the deal.

Varajeo is not a toxic contract. He's an expiring contract this summer that can pretty easily be traded if CLE was willing to do so (which theyre prolly not because he's BFF's with Bron). And cmon, you cant really expect to not trade your biggest trade chips and get a star. WAS best trade chips are Wall/Otto/Beal, you're not keeping all of them in a trade for Love. CLE might be interested in something surrounding Porter+win now players and move Lebron to full time PF (where he's much better), but the proposed deal is terribad for CLE.

WAS is just not a good trading partner for CLE.

[gambitx777]

You don't lose Beal for nothinng; you essentially trade Beal for Durant, which you do 100 times out of 100.

And I love Otto, but you don't get players like Love for free.

Nene and Duley are expiring and won't be here next year.

Cleveland will have no interest in Oubre or future picks. They want players who will help them win NOW.

You do loose beal for nothing because you let beal walk. If they don't like the trade then let them keep love, they are not going to beat the worriers with love and lebron. Its just not a good match up or a good flow. NENE, Beal, and a first for love is fair value, if they don't like it they can hit the bricks over paying even for love is still over paying

[stevemcqueen1]

Varajeo is not a toxic contract. He's an expiring contract this summer that can pretty easily be traded if CLE was willing to do so (which theyre prolly not because he's BFF's with Bron). And cmon, you cant really expect to not trade your biggest trade chips and get a star. WAS best trade chips are Wall/Otto/Beal, you're not keeping all of them in a trade for Love. CLE might be interested in something surrounding Porter+win now players and move Lebron to full time PF (where he's much better), but the proposed deal is terribad for CLE.

WAS is just not a good trading partner for CLE.

Contract is almost fully guaranteed for next season, it's not an expiring. It's an awful deal for Cleveland because they're so far into the tax and he's not even playable any more. Have 75 million in cap commitments for seven players next season. Signing LeBron puts them at 106. No Mozgov, JR Smith, Mo Williams, or Dellevedova extension yet. The roster is:

PG: Kyrie
SG: Shumpert, Harris
SF: LeBron
PF: Love, Thompson
C: Kaun, Varejao

They'd need multiple shooters, a good back up PG, and a starting C that can play 28 minutes a night and they'd already be at the tax line. Can't sign anyone new above min contracts except for a tax payer MLE and a BAE I believe. No draft picks. So they'd basically have to keep Smith and Mozgov at whatever number they'd cost, and probably keep one of Delly/Williams too. Realistically, their salaries will double, at a minimum. Probably more. Now you're at least 20 million into the luxury tax with ten players. Cleveland is a repeater too. That means 20 million into the luxury tax = 65 million dollars. Huge scaling penalties after that threshold too, and they could easily be higher over the tax too if Smith and Mozgov cost more than ~10 million a piece, and/or they keep Dellevadova or Williams.

Dropping Varejao's contract from a 20 million over the tax line payroll would save them 49 million dollars next season. Friend of LeBron's or no, I would think it's absolutely essential for Cleveland to do this.

Dropping Varejao's contract AND halving Kevin Love's money by trading him would put them just under the projected luxury tax. It could save them 85 million dollars in player costs next season. Maybe more.

Dropping Varejao's contract, halving Love's money, and then freeing yourself from the need to sign Mozgov by acquiring a starting caliber C on a bargain deal puts them over ten million UNDER the projected luxury tax line after signing LeBron and JR Smith. They'd actually have the MLE to use and could probably keep either Delly or Williams without crossing the luxury tax line.

1.) There is, perhaps, a great deal of chemical incentive to deal Love
2.) There is massive financial incentive to deal Love and Varejao

On the Wizards end, I'd probably rather deal Porter than Gortat since he's a less valuable player, but I don't see why Cleveland would want Porter over Gortat and I wouldn't include both of them. Gortat is one of our best trade chips. He's the second best player on the team and he's signed to a dirt cheap contract with four years of team control. He plays the only position that Cleveland hasn't committed big long term money too (assuming they keep LeBron). And he's signed long term, unlike Porter. He's also ready to play big minutes for a contending team in the present and Porter isn't yet. Plus I wouldn't be so sure that LeBron would want to move from SF to PF full time at this stage in his career.

I think whether or not Cleveland would be interested in this kind of deal depends on how **** up the locker room is right now, and whether or not Love would want to play in DC. If Love has started poisoning the well, then that forces Cleveland's hand. They have title aspirations and would need to make a move before the deadline. But if he made it known to us we aren't on his list, then that would kill any potential deal because the Wizards simply wouldn't make a trade.

[Higga]

Not sure I want Love. He racked up #s on a terrible Minnesota team and never won anything as the man, goes to Cleveland, he gets hurt they still make the Finals, now he's healthy and still not doing much. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't think he's that good. We'd be doing the Cavs a massive favor giving them anything of significance for Love.

[deneem4]

Really wish we could've traded for ersan....
He could've been part of the Kevin love swap...but then again we wouldn't need love

[Ruzious]

Not sure I want Love. He racked up #s on a terrible Minnesota team and never won anything as the man, goes to Cleveland, he gets hurt they still make the Finals, now he's healthy and still not doing much. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't think he's that good. We'd be doing the Cavs a massive favor giving them anything of significance for Love.

I wouldn't worry, because when he put up those numbers in Minny, he did it with very high efficiency. He's the real deal, imo. But obviously he's not a guy who's going to carry a team - like Lebron.