Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread

[JDR720]

I'm happy with it.

It's nice to have some level of coaching competency after the Clifford, Dunlap and Silas reigns.

[BigSlam]

Know that might be controversial, but I'm happy with it. I like JB and want him to stick around.

I like kit - a lot.

If nothing else we are finally starting to have some head coaching consistently instead of cycling in and out a new head coach every 2-4 years.

Plus I think JB is growing into a fine head coach with even more potential to fill. I think he’s a great head coach for a young team that is built to play up tempo.

[Walt Cronkite]

His Wikipedia says he was the first Latino head coach in NBA history. Is that accurate?

[BigSlam]

His Wikipedia says he was the first Latino head coach in NBA history. Is that accurate?

Yuppers.

[BigSlam]

Two nights after watching Memphis’ Ja Morant go off in the first quarter, exploding for 19 points and knocking down his initial six shots, there was a repeat performance. Except this time it was someone who made a name for himself around these parts.

Kemba Walker tossed in a season-high 26 points and was unconscious from the start, with the Hornets making very little effort to body him up or chase him off some of his favorite spots on the court he spent eight seasons playing on.

To put Walker’s explosion into perspective: He barely needed a quarter and a half of play to match his entire output of the previous four games. He had been struggling, but the Hornets’ nonexistent resistance quickly got Walker going in a fashion witnessed on many occasions in Uptown.

“Our initial pick-and-roll we were back,” Borrego said. “We just went with our basic coverage. What I’m trying to do as a coach is start in the same defense every game, try not to change constantly for our young team and we started in our base coverage. We went back and Kemba got going and Ja Morant got going the other night and we tweaked it. We adjusted.

Ummmmmmmm…..maybe stop starting games using your basic coverage? Because it just ain’t working.

Just a thought.

[BurrellFor3]

I have been pretty vocal about my disdain for how Borrego has handled James Bouknight, and I’ve caught a lot of flak from one board member here in particular. But, now that the hornets are waivering around .500 and now seeing how little coach is playing Ball, and ALSO seeing Monk flourish in LA, we have to begin seriously asking the question, is it time for Borrego to go? I see a disturbing pattern of an incredibly stubborn coach, who seemingly hates young talented players (or at least prefers mediocre veterans over them) but is not getting team results. It would be one thing if hornets were in the top 5 and 5 or 6 games above 500, but they are not. Sure, you can blame covid and missing rotational players, but looking back, we were arguably more competitive in those games!!
I’m personally sick of Borrego, his awful defense (or not getting through to players regarding D), or perhaps he has lost the players themselves, but SOMETHING needs to change, and now before it gets too late into the season. I think we need someone new who is not afraid to come in and shake things up and play the best 1-9 or 1-10, and give guys like Ball the proper all-star minutes he deserves.

Anyone agree or disagree?

[yosemiteben]

I see a disturbing pattern of an incredibly stubborn coach, who seemingly hates young talented players (or at least prefers mediocre veterans over them) but is not getting team results.

Tell me you don't follow the Hornets closely without telling me you don't follow the Hornets closely

[BurrellFor3]

I mean, tell me otherwise? You mean to tell me Ish smith should be closing games out over Ball? You mean to tell me that a coach that has played Ball 25 min/game over the last 5, in the middle of a losing streak, is doing what’s best for the team? You want to tell me that a coach who plays Martin incessantly, many times scoring 2,4,7 points a game constantly, is a guy who deserves 27 minutes a game? Yeah his defense is good, but does that matter when the team still can’t stop a folding chair from scoring?

I could go on and on, but please, sit here and patronize what I’m saying instead of giving me a reason why Borrego and his rotations are good. I’ll wait.

[BurrellFor3]

I mean, tell me otherwise? You mean to tell me Ish smith should be closing games out over Ball? You mean to tell me that a coach that has played Ball 25 min/game over the last 5, in the middle of a losing streak, is doing what’s best for the team? You want to tell me that a coach who plays Martin incessantly, many times scoring 2,4,7 points a game constantly, is a guy who deserves 27 minutes a game? Yeah his defense is good, but does that matter when the team still can’t stop a folding chair from scoring?

I could go on and on, but please, sit here and patronize what I’m saying instead of giving me a reason why Borrego and his rotations are good. I’ll wait.

And also, I purchased nba league pass and have watched all 38 hornets games this season.

[yosemiteben]

I mean, tell me otherwise? You mean to tell me Ish smith should be closing games out over Ball?

You're picking the amount of time Ish plays as your argument for JB preferring vets? The guy with 12 DNP-CDs and only 1 start?

You mean to tell me that a coach that has played Ball 25 min/game over the last 5, in the middle of a losing streak, is doing what’s best for the team?

We've won 3 of our last 5? Not getting your point. Ish played really well and got us back into games, so he got more PT. It's not like that is the norm.

You want to tell me that a coach who plays Martin incessantly, many times scoring 2,4,7 points a game constantly, is a guy who deserves 27 minutes a game? Yeah his defense is good, but does that matter when the team still can’t stop a folding chair from scoring?

Him playing Cody Martin is the exact opposite of your argument. You know he was a 2nd round pick that JB played as a young player over vets, right? This was kind of my point about you apparently not being familiar with our team's history.

I could go on and on, but please, sit here and patronize what I’m saying instead of giving me a reason why Borrego and his rotations are good. I’ll wait.

You didn't say his rotations weren't good, you said he favored vets over young guys. JB's track record for player development is beyond reproach.

[BurrellFor3]

I mean, tell me otherwise? You mean to tell me Ish smith should be closing games out over Ball?

You're picking the amount of time Ish plays as your argument for JB preferring vets? The guy with 12 DNP-CDs and only 1 start?

You mean to tell me that a coach that has played Ball 25 min/game over the last 5, in the middle of a losing streak, is doing what’s best for the team?

We've won 3 of our last 5? Not getting your point. Ish played really well and got us back into games, so he got more PT. It's not like that is the norm.

You want to tell me that a coach who plays Martin incessantly, many times scoring 2,4,7 points a game constantly, is a guy who deserves 27 minutes a game? Yeah his defense is good, but does that matter when the team still can’t stop a folding chair from scoring?

Him playing Cody Martin is the exact opposite of your argument. You know he was a 2nd round pick that JB played as a young player over vets, right? This was kind of my point about you apparently not being familiar with our team's history.

I could go on and on, but please, sit here and patronize what I’m saying instead of giving me a reason why Borrego and his rotations are good. I’ll wait.

You didn't say his rotations weren't good, you said he favored vets over young guys. JB's track record for player development is beyond reproach.

Ish getting 12 dnps was mostly earlier in the season. Any observing coach would have started to give Bouk a shot at some minutes after how he played given his opportunity when guys were out. Ish is who he is after 12 seasons, and isn’t the answer of going from a mediocre team to a playoff series winning team, whereas Bouk *could* be. That was my point here.

We won 3 of the last 5, but lost the last 2 in games where we looked absolutely atrocious vs phoenix and a game we should have won vs the wiz.

Cody got 18 minutes a game as a rookie on a team that was 21-42, so clearly the teams were different in terms of talent. But where was Monk during that time? Was the staff using him properly? Now look at monk. I highly doubt the lakers suddenly developed monk in less than half a season. The guy always had the talent, like our young guys now do. Martin is who he is and isn’t ever going to be a star player. Always a solid role player at best.

Borrego is too stubborn imo with guys who have a track record of being mediocore. I could understand IF we were winning, but we are 500 and going in the wrong direction. You have had enough practice time by now you give guys a chance to earn minutes, but he seems to prefer sticking with older mediocore talent. It’s not working.

[KembaWalker]

I feel like there's gonna be a Ben Gordon / Dunlap incident in practice soon. These guys look completely disinterested in anything but launching up garbage 3s. Wish Mitch had the balls to say some stuff like Schlenk did

[luciano-davidwesley]

I don't rate Borrego as an X and O's coach but it's not because he isn't playing Bouk or Kai.

It's because our defense is atrocious. We give up open threes AND open layups/dunks constantly. Particularly corner threes too.

Our offensive sets out of time outs are generally horrible. We also manage the shot clock very poorly at the end of quarters.

He also seems afraid to call out Ball on some of the high school clowning plays he does from time to time. He hasn't benched a single starter yet despite them all giving no f***s on defense as a group.

He seems good at developing young players though I'll give him credit there.

We also need to lay blame/praise where applicable on the whole coaching staff for the issues highlighted above and the GM for some roster deficiencies that have been ignored for years.

[CuseMayne]

I don't rate Borrego as an X and O's coach but it's not because he isn't playing Bouk or Kai.

It's because our defense is atrocious. We give up open threes AND open layups/dunks constantly. Particularly corner threes too.

Our offensive sets out of time outs are generally horrible. We also manage the shot clock very poorly at the end of quarters.

He also seems afraid to call out Ball on some of the high school clowning plays he does from time to time. He hasn't benched a single starter yet despite them all giving no f***s on defense as a group.

He seems good at developing young players though I'll give him credit there.

We also need to lay blame/praise where applicable on the whole coaching staff for the issues highlighted above and the GM for some roster deficiencies that have been ignored for years.

Whole lotta this.

Especially looking at the roster construction as something that leaves a lot to be desired. I mean, when you yearn for Bismack Biyombo to come back/get annoyed when he plays 2 great games on a 10 day, you know the biggest issue being ignored for this long is something that cannot be justfiied.

[HornetJail]

I have my frustrations with Borrego but none of them are about how he manages young players. It's been the same kinda thing for 4 years now. The young guys typically start low in the rotation, and if they prove to be better than the man in front of them, they get their opportunity. It's worked for Miles (took Lamb's spot), PJ (Marvin), Devonte' (Bacon lol), LaMelo (Devonte'), Jalen and Cody earned their minutes. Kai and Bouk will earn theirs too in time... if they outplay who's in front of them.

Borrego will help us get to a certain level with his emphasis on player development and this season's uptempo offense (which I love), but we will be capped at that certain level until he or someone else makes an attempt to get some defense in the game plan. It's been 3 years, and our defense looks every bit as disorganized as it did the year we were supposed to be tanking after Kemba left. There's absolutely no excuse for that. At least bring in a defensive assistant or something, we're a lost cause on that end.

Beyond anything else, blame Kupchak for roster construction. He's got a hell of an eye for drafting talent, but jesus christ, at least make an effort to create a balanced roster. In 4 years, we haven't even had a top 25 center on the roster. Zeller is the best by a country mile and was perennially injured. Till that happens, Borrego hasn't even had a full lineup to work with.

[yosemiteben]

Cody got 18 minutes a game as a rookie on a team that was 21-42, so clearly the teams were different in terms of talent. But where was Monk during that time?

Well that depends, are you meaning when he admitted he was checked out, or after that when he was sitting out because of getting stung with drugs?

Did you know either of those took place?

It really feels like noob fan with no perspective of roster context is trying to flame a coach for allegedly not doing what in reality that coach is best at.

[BurrellFor3]

Cody got 18 minutes a game as a rookie on a team that was 21-42, so clearly the teams were different in terms of talent. But where was Monk during that time?

Well that depends, are you meaning when he admitted he was checked out, or after that when he was sitting out because of getting stung with drugs?

Did you know either of those took place?

It really feels like noob fan with no perspective of roster context is trying to flame a coach for allegedly not doing what in reality that coach is best at.

Ironically the two forum mods are the ones that act like Borrego on here when it comes to new posters. God forbid someone is a new fan. Is that a crime? No, of course I don’t know about something that was barely published, but you knew that already. I’m just making an opinion, you have yours, and it’s all good. Fire Borrego, stop being mediocore, that’s mine.

[yosemiteben]

Cody got 18 minutes a game as a rookie on a team that was 21-42, so clearly the teams were different in terms of talent. But where was Monk during that time?

Well that depends, are you meaning when he admitted he was checked out, or after that when he was sitting out because of getting stung with drugs?

Did you know either of those took place?

It really feels like noob fan with no perspective of roster context is trying to flame a coach for allegedly not doing what in reality that coach is best at.

Ironically the two forum mods are the ones that act like Borrego on here when it comes to new posters. God forbid someone is a new fan. Is that a crime? No, of course I don’t know about something that was barely published, but you knew that already. I’m just making an opinion, you have yours, and it’s all good. Fire Borrego, stop being mediocore, that’s mine.

It's not that you're a new fan, it's that you're not acknowledging that JB has done the exact thing you're saying you want him to do. It's what he's best known for.

Literally no one that has followed this team thinks JB needs to be fired because he can't develop / hates young guys.

It's on the same level of absurdity as saying we should fire him because he's holding back our offense.

[Hornet Mania]

IIRC in previous seasons JB's rotation has been set in stone from Nov-Dec, he experiments a bit from end of January to early March, and then it's set in stone again the last few weeks of the year (usually with more young guys than Nov-Dec).

This year could be different with Oubre/Ish being significantly better than our bench options from the last few seasons, but I do expect to see at least a sprinkle of Bouk/Thor in the coming months and probably another opportunity for Richards as well.

From my perspective JB is far more flexible than Clifford was, but that is a very low bar.

[JDR720]

JB plays young players. Martin played 18mins his rookie year. Miles played 20. PJ played 30. Graham became a regular etc.

Bouknight doesn't play because several players are ahead of him. Oubre, Martin, Gordon, Rozier. And Kai doesn't play because he isn't very good. Ish generally plays over Bouknight because Ish is a PG, Bouknight is a SG.

Thor has played 4 games of over 15 minutes.

JB has been by far our best development coach. Both Martin's became good players (should've kept them both). Graham became a top 10 backup PG. None of the players we've drafted have underachieved below their draft positions significantly, besides Carey.

We, for the first time in forever, actually have a staff that develops players and a GM who is good at drafting.

The issues are

1- The staff have no clue about defense, either developing it or scheming it.
2- The GM has neglected the C position to the point where we have to play two 6-7 players at C on a regular basis (PJ and Miles)

That's the difference between fighting for the 6th seed and getting a top 3 seed.