Game Thread – Celtics @ Heat – 7:30PM, Thurs, Nov. 4, 2021

[Hal14]

Nesmith > Richardson and it’s not even close

what a casual take.

You say this, why? Because Nesmith dropped 13 points tonight? You realize Richardson had 18 the other night?

Tonight was the first good game Nesmith had all year. Nesmith started the season off missing the first 10 shots he took. That's right, 10 shot attempts, 0 went in. Prior to tonight's game, the only shot Nesmith hit all year so far came in garbage time last night vs the worst team in the league, Orlando.

Richardson is a better defender, better passer and has better handles / better at creating off the dribble.

You want to say Nesmith is better. Ok, sure. It's a reach, but whatever, go for it.

But to say that Nesmith is better "and it's not even close" is just dumb.

Not to mention, why do we need to constantly pit our own players against each other? It's always Brown vs Tatum, Richardson vs Nesmith, Smart vs Schroder. They're all on the same team! They're all Celtics. All fighting together for 1 common goal.

[bucknersrevenge]

Nesmith > Richardson and it’s not even close

what a casual take.

You say this, why? Because Nesmith dropped 13 points tonight? You realize Richardson had 18 the other night?

Tonight was the first good game Nesmith had all year. Nesmith started the season off missing the first 10 shots he took. That's right, 10 shot attempts, 0 went in. Prior to tonight's game, the only shot Nesmith hit all year so far came in garbage time last night vs the worst team in the league, Orlando.

Richardson is a better defender, better passer and has better handles / better at creating off the dribble.

You want to say Nesmith is better. Ok, sure. It's a reach, but whatever, go for it.

But to say that Nesmith is better "and it's not even close" is just dumb.

Not to mention, why do we need to constantly pit our own players against each other? It's always Brown vs Tatum, Richardson vs Nesmith, Smart vs Schroder. They're all on the same team! They're all Celtics. All fighting together for 1 common goal.

But Hal this is not 1 on 1. The context missing but perhaps implied in the OP is that Nesmith appears to be a better complement to the Jay's. That is an idea that has been suggested all offseason When you factor in his and Pritchard's ability to flow to open spots off the ball and even cut and crash the boards when necessary, I honestly think they both fit better than Rich AND even Schroeder.

[playa-hater]

Nesmith is crazy

yes, but in a good way ..

[playa-hater]

Nesmith > Richardson and it’s not even close

what a casual take.

You say this, why? Because Nesmith dropped 13 points tonight? You realize Richardson had 18 the other night?

Tonight was the first good game Nesmith had all year. Nesmith started the season off missing the first 10 shots he took. That's right, 10 shot attempts, 0 went in. Prior to tonight's game, the only shot Nesmith hit all year so far came in garbage time last night vs the worst team in the league, Orlando.
.

did you just say that?? wow.. How the hell can he have a good game, when he never plays?? what if J Rich was benched for 5 games in a row or whatever. How many points can he get from the bench??

[playa-hater]

Nesmith > Richardson and it’s not even close

what a casual take.

You say this, why? Because Nesmith dropped 13 points tonight? You realize Richardson had 18 the other night?

Tonight was the first good game Nesmith had all year. Nesmith started the season off missing the first 10 shots he took. That's right, 10 shot attempts, 0 went in. Prior to tonight's game, the only shot Nesmith hit all year so far came in garbage time last night vs the worst team in the league, Orlando.

Richardson is a better defender, better passer and has better handles / better at creating off the dribble.

You want to say Nesmith is better. Ok, sure. It's a reach, but whatever, go for it.

But to say that Nesmith is better "and it's not even close" is just dumb.

Not to mention, why do we need to constantly pit our own players against each other? It's always Brown vs Tatum, Richardson vs Nesmith, Smart vs Schroder. They're all on the same team! They're all Celtics. All fighting together for 1 common goal.

But Hal this is not 1 on 1. The context missing but perhaps implied in the OP is that Nesmith appears to be a better complement to the Jay's. That is an idea that has been suggested all offseason When you factor in his and Pritchard's ability to flow to open spots off the ball and even cut and crash the boards when necessary, I honestly think they both fit better than Rich AND even Schroeder.

This is a factor I swear some people have no clue about..

[Hal14]

Nesmith > Richardson and it’s not even close

what a casual take.

You say this, why? Because Nesmith dropped 13 points tonight? You realize Richardson had 18 the other night?

Tonight was the first good game Nesmith had all year. Nesmith started the season off missing the first 10 shots he took. That's right, 10 shot attempts, 0 went in. Prior to tonight's game, the only shot Nesmith hit all year so far came in garbage time last night vs the worst team in the league, Orlando.

Richardson is a better defender, better passer and has better handles / better at creating off the dribble.

You want to say Nesmith is better. Ok, sure. It's a reach, but whatever, go for it.

But to say that Nesmith is better "and it's not even close" is just dumb.

Not to mention, why do we need to constantly pit our own players against each other? It's always Brown vs Tatum, Richardson vs Nesmith, Smart vs Schroder. They're all on the same team! They're all Celtics. All fighting together for 1 common goal.

But Hal this is not 1 on 1. The context missing but perhaps implied in the OP is that Nesmith appears to be a better complement to the Jay's. That is an idea that has been suggested all offseason When you factor in his and Pritchard's ability to flow to open spots off the ball and even cut and crash the boards when necessary, I honestly think they both fit better than Rich AND even Schroeder.

1) Your whole post was only about offense. Defense is 50% of the game of basketball. Richardson is a better defender and there's no doubt it's a reason why he's been getting minutes ahead of Nesmith. Nesmith's defense was decent tonight - except for that 1 play where Butler backed him down, turned and scored like he wasn't even there. In the other games Nesmith has played in prior to tonight though his D looked shaky at best, and he also looked very shaky defensively in summer league, routinely letting g-leaguers blow by him off the dribble.

2) Haven't really noticed anything that indicates Nesmith is better than richardson at cutting or crashing the boards.

3) Even after tonight's game, Nesmith is shooting 26.6% from 3 for the season, compared to 33.3% for Richardson. For their career, both of them are literally the exact same 35.8% from 3 - additional context behind those numbers is that Richardson's first few years came during a time when league-wide 3 point percentages were lower than they've been for the past 2-3 years.

[bucknersrevenge]

what a casual take.

You say this, why? Because Nesmith dropped 13 points tonight? You realize Richardson had 18 the other night?

Tonight was the first good game Nesmith had all year. Nesmith started the season off missing the first 10 shots he took. That's right, 10 shot attempts, 0 went in. Prior to tonight's game, the only shot Nesmith hit all year so far came in garbage time last night vs the worst team in the league, Orlando.

Richardson is a better defender, better passer and has better handles / better at creating off the dribble.

You want to say Nesmith is better. Ok, sure. It's a reach, but whatever, go for it.

But to say that Nesmith is better "and it's not even close" is just dumb.

Not to mention, why do we need to constantly pit our own players against each other? It's always Brown vs Tatum, Richardson vs Nesmith, Smart vs Schroder. They're all on the same team! They're all Celtics. All fighting together for 1 common goal.

But Hal this is not 1 on 1. The context missing but perhaps implied in the OP is that Nesmith appears to be a better complement to the Jay's. That is an idea that has been suggested all offseason When you factor in his and Pritchard's ability to flow to open spots off the ball and even cut and crash the boards when necessary, I honestly think they both fit better than Rich AND even Schroeder.

1) Your whole post was only about offense. Defense is 50% of the game of basketball. Richardson is a better defender and there's no doubt it's a reason why he's been getting minutes ahead of Nesmith. Nesmith's defense was decent tonight - except for that 1 play where Butler backed him down, turned and scored like he wasn't even there. In the other games Nesmith has played in prior to tonight though his D looked shaky at best, and he also looked very shaky defensively in summer league, routinely letting g-leaguers blow by him off the dribble.

2) Haven't really noticed anything that indicates Nesmith is better than richardson at cutting or crashing the boards.

3) Even after tonight's game, Nesmith is shooting 26.6% from 3 for the season, compared to 33.3% for Richardson. For their career, both of them are literally the exact same 35.8% from 3 - additional context behind those numbers is that Richardson's first few years came during a time when league-wide 3 point percentages were lower than they've been for the past 2-3 years.

Your point on defense I couldn't dispute even if I tried. Defense, as you stated, is 100% the reason why JRich has gotten the call ahead of Nesmith. And yes, my point was about offense. As for cutting and crashing, I will disagree there but it's a subjective point I can concede. I think Nesmith is better at it and puts more energy into it. As for the percentages, the small sample size I think belies the fact that Nesmith is a better shooter and knows how to find the open spaces for kickouts better. He's a hustler, if not a good defender yet.

Your point is probably why Nesmith will go back to the bench when Richardson comes back. For me, getting Nesmith's shooting and energy on the floor is enough to balance out his defensive miscues. Then again, it's easy for me to say that from the cheap seats. Even if I wasn't suggesting a long term change, being willing to throw him in when you see the team is playing flat is a smart idea because I know that no matter what, this kid is gonna try and he's gonna throw his body around out there and sometimes our other players need to see that.

[ParticleMan]

JRich is better defensively but Nesmith is not by any means a poor defender and he does many other things better. He is more active. He is a better rebounder. He brings more energy and causes more havoc. And most of all he brings spacing, which is sorely lacking with Smart and Schroeder who teams don't even guard at the 3pt line. Why is Tatum so much worse at finishing at the rim this year? Because he's always in a huge crowd. We have no spacing. Nesmith is our best chance for that (and Pritchard, but he is a definite liability on D). It's not just about who is the better player in a vacuum.

Quoting shooting stats a few games into the season when one of the guys hasn't even played in over half the games isn't going to convince anyone. Everyone knows Nesmith is a far better shooter than JRich. It's not even close. And moreover, Scal mentioned the amazing stat that with Nesmith, Brown, and Tatum out there the team shot over 45% from 3's last year. It's not just about Nesmith.

[Hal14]

Everyone knows Nesmith is a far better shooter than JRich. It's not even close.

Career 3 point shooting:

Richardson = 35.8%
Nesmith = 35.8%

Dead even, and that's not even factoring in that Richardson's first few years, the league average 3 point % was lower.

[bucknersrevenge]

I'm just saying, this team needs more "this".

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[playa-hater]

JRich is better defensively but Nesmith is not by any means a poor defender and he does many other things better. He is more active. He is a better rebounder. He brings more energy and causes more havoc. And most of all he brings spacing, which is sorely lacking with Smart and Schroeder who teams don't even guard at the 3pt line. Why is Tatum so much worse at finishing at the rim this year? Because he's always in a huge crowd. We have no spacing. Nesmith is our best chance for that (and Pritchard, but he is a definite liability on D). It's not just about who is the better played in a vacuum.

Quoting shooting stats a few games into the season when one of the guys hasn't even played in over half the games isn't going to convince anyone. Everyone knows Nesmith is [b]a far better shooter than JRich.[/b] It's not even close. And moreover, Scal mentioned the amazing stat that with Nesmith, Brown, and Tatum out there the team shot over 45% from 3's last year. It's not just about Nesmith.

I used colors to point out your many good points..

[playa-hater]

Everyone knows Nesmith is a far better shooter than JRich. It's not even close.

Career 3 point shooting:

Richardson = 35.8%
Nesmith = 35.8%

Dead even, and that's not even factoring in that Richardson's first few years, the league average 3 point % was lower.

It amazes me how you point out anything possible to discredit Nesmith. No doubt I am his number 1 supporter as I have named myself President of his fan club.. But clearly you are the biggest detractor.. Not sure why..

Does projection mean anything? clearly anyone saying Nesmith is a better shooter is judging from many factors including the all important eye test.

Meanwhile since you were so proud to point out Nesmith started out 0-10 in shooting. Even with that 0% start Nesmith's shooting > Beal this year. Nesmith > Beal edit and Doncic and Dame and...

[bucknersrevenge]

Here's how much Nesmith and Pritchard are needed. Schroeder is just AWFUL. Sure Smart has never been great in his area but you can' have TWO whole guys like that who play 30 minutes each. You just can't.

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[playa-hater]

Here's how much Nesmith and Pritchard are needed. Schroeder is just AWFUL. Sure Smart has never been great in his area but you can' have TWO whole guys like that who play 30 minutes each. You just can't.

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Facts.. preach ma brother

might also lead into why it appears Tatum hesitates to pass.. 1 part over confidence in himself, 1 part little confidence in others and another part of course is Tatum is a wanna be Kobe (which I figure is both good and bad at times)