Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[srhcan]

Pascal-Scottie-OG-Fred-Trent is 114.5-112.9 for +1.6

JP-Pascal-Scottie-OG-Fred is 121-110 for +10.9

what about JP-Pascal-OG-Fred-Trent ?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Pascal-Scottie-OG-Fred-Trent is 114.5-112.9 for +1.6

JP-Pascal-Scottie-OG-Fred is 121-110 for +10.9

what about JP-Pascal-OG-Fred-Trent ?

-48.5

[srhcan]

Pascal-Scottie-OG-Fred-Trent is 114.5-112.9 for +1.6

JP-Pascal-Scottie-OG-Fred is 121-110 for +10.9

what about JP-Pascal-OG-Fred-Trent ?

-48.5

ew how many minutes they have played together? may be the sample size is too small?

[ATLTimekeeper]

what about JP-Pascal-OG-Fred-Trent ?

-48.5

ew how many minutes they have played together? may be the sample size is too small?

Of course it is. He's been here for 10 games. The point is that Scottie may look worse individually with Poeltl, but the results overall are really good so far. We already know Scottie's skillset issues. He just needs to develop like any other young player.

[MonkBatter42]

I wish Scottie would just drop the point guard schtick. Just because he's a talented passer doesn't make him a point guard. He's a power forward, and he thrives in that role. I don't want to see this guy dribbling aimlessly around the perimiter. Dude can barely handle the ball. He can't even keep his dribble even somewhat low while running in a straight line in transition, and once he reaches the top of the 3 point line, he has no wiggle/ability to change direction whatsoever, in order to continue into the paint. We clearly see him at his best when he operates in the post and uses his strength to his advantage. When he does receive the ball on the perimeter, all I want to see is quick North-South movement. If there is a quick drive available, drive it. If not, pass it and get your ass into the post and bang for position. He is not this "swaggy" ball-handling guard or wing guy that he wishes he was. As a fanbase, how did we go from 95% of us freaking out after we drafted him knowing he had no offensive game, to now believing that he is the second coming of Magic? He is not him.

[720]

I wish Scottie would just drop the point guard schtick. Just because he's a talented passer doesn't make him a point guard. He's a power forward, and he thrives in that role. I don't want to see this guy dribbling aimlessly around the perimiter. Dude can barely handle the ball. He can't even keep his dribble even somewhat low while running in a straight line in transition, and once he reaches the top of the 3 point line, he has no wiggle/ability to change direction whatsoever, in order to continue into the paint. We clearly see him at his best when he operates in the post and uses his strength to his advantage. When he does receive the ball on the perimeter, all I want to see is quick North-South movement. If there is a quick drive available, drive it. If not, pass it and get your ass into the post and bang for position. He is not this "swaggy" ball-handling guard or wing guy that he wishes he was. As a fanbase, how did we go from 95% of us freaking out after we drafted him knowing he had no offensive game, to now believing that he is the second coming of Magic? He is not him.

We’ve moved him out of the paint more and more as the season progressed. First it was because Achiuwa came back from injury, now even more so because Poeltl is here.

If you want him to just play as a point forward/center he’ll get like 10-15 minutes a game. Since we already have Siakam, Poeltl, Achiuwa. There is a lot of overlap.

[TorontoBarneys]

I think it's a combination of fit issues and skill issues. Also Scottie is clearly an emotional player at heart and will ebb and flow with whatever emotions he is feeling during a particular game, for better or for worse.

He's definitely a player who won't be complete until 25 or so. Good news? His post-rookie contract won't be huge.

[HiJiNX]

So I guess we’re down on Scottie Barnes this week haha.

[ItsDanger]

53/128, 41.4%.

That's Scottie's FG% since trade deadline. Raps front office doesn't appreciate geography of scoring on NBA floor. Go stand in the corner!

[HumbleRen]

huh what.

Mobley is already a top 10 defender in the league and will be the best by the time he is 24. Mobley is better than Barnes at defending the perimeter. if he is also a 25 point scorer, that is easily a top 10 player in the league.

Barnes path to stardom is less realistic because he is bad at a lot of things atm.

Mobley doesn’t even have his adult body yet lol.

He’s going to be ridiculous as he gets stronger. He’s helping anchor the best defensive team in the league on a team that has Garland, Mitchell and Levert starting, it’s just absurd lol.

What's Allen's role, then?

Protect the rim.

Allen plays the Brook Lopez Role and Mobley plays the Giannis role on defence.

[HumbleRen]

This is why defined roles and your environment is so important for your development. Mobley knows exactly who he is and what’s his job on any given night.

Garland and Mitchell are elite at collapsing the paint and kicking it out. We have no one on the Raptors like that, FVV on a good day but he’s no where near the playmaker that Garland/Mitchell are. Mobley can sleep walk into 20 points at times because of how great Garland/Mitchell are at finding him.

Meanwhile when you watch the Raptors, you can clearly tell that Scottie and honestly everyone on the Raptors just don’t know what they’re doing out there. It’s awkward and ugly looking. That comes with being a bad fit, overlapping skills and redundancy.

Those 4-5 free points that used to be there for Scottie in the course of a game ? That’s going to Poeltl now. Scottie has to force himself to fit in the “system”, Mobley IS apart of the system. Huge difference.

Scottie thinks he’s a PG, Nurse thinks he’s a perimeter wing, meanwhile his real role is a power forward and yet he’ll never get to play in his natural position because Siakam is the best player on the team and that’s his position.

[Duffman100]

Honestly, I think this whole collision of skillsets, 'using' Scottie in the right way, etc etc... is just masking that he has massive holes in his game.

It's real simple, he needs to learn how to shoot. Just like any other NBA player, he has to shoot. Otherwise he's tough to use in almost any situation.

I believe in him, I think he'll improve. But, gotta come back next season with a reliable 15-18 footer. It's just that simple.

[Tha Cynic]

Let's get this out of the way - Midrange and improving the handles are a key to next season for Barnes personally. After that he needs to change his mindset to more of a scorer mentality. The roster around him really isn't suited for his skill-set, so anything he can provide is a plus at this stage this season. I don't get high or low anymore as he isn't going to magically hit a bunch of jumpers for the remaining games. I like that he's starting to drive and take mid range jumpers more. Let him develop his "guard" skills. His decision making in general has gotten more passive this season and into the later stages as opposed to last season where he was more aggressive as the season went on.

But, the Raptors need to figure out their offense. They have played two seasons with this exact same team (now adding Poeltl), and no one knows what their teammate is doing or when to expect passes. That's a huge issue and something that comes back to what Nurse is doing. How does your team have zero chemistry on offense after nearly two full seasons? They need to fix this offense as a whole and they have the highest paid coach in the NBA as a supposed offensive minded coach.

Masai needs to make some roster changes going into next season. Make a decision - are you making Barnes a cornerstone or not? If not, then trade him. If yes, then trade others.

[HumbleRen]

Honestly, I think this whole collision of skillsets, 'using' Scottie in the right way, etc etc... is just masking that he has massive holes in his game.

It's real simple, he needs to learn how to shoot. Just like any other NBA player, he has to shoot. Otherwise he's tough to use in almost any situation.

I believe in him, I think he'll improve. But, gotta come back next season with a reliable 15-18 footer. It's just that simple.

I agree but there’s way more nuance to it then just simply he needs to get better at shooting.

His weaknesses are more pronounced BECAUSE he’s playing out of position.

[Raps in 4]

Does ceiling matter when he's not even improving? Same bad handles, bad shot, and even worse defense. He was getting turned and danced on by Murray. Murray spun him around like a drunk thot and I saw Barnes on his ass a few times crying about calls.

He's a PF who was defending a PG. He's a versatile defender. That doesn't mean he can defend every position at an elite level.

IMO, we need to bench Barnes to light a fire under his ass. He needed to get his shot at league average level yesterday, it's overdue now. So hit the bench until you can figure that out.

His development of a shot is overdue, at age 21?

[Duffman100]

Honestly, I think this whole collision of skillsets, 'using' Scottie in the right way, etc etc... is just masking that he has massive holes in his game.

It's real simple, he needs to learn how to shoot. Just like any other NBA player, he has to shoot. Otherwise he's tough to use in almost any situation.

I believe in him, I think he'll improve. But, gotta come back next season with a reliable 15-18 footer. It's just that simple.

I agree but there’s way more nuance to it then just simply he needs to get better at shooting.

His weaknesses are more pronounced BECAUSE he’s playing out of position.

Sure and he COULD maybe look better in a different offensive system. But he'll hit the same ceiling anyways.

Our offense is a mess, there's no arguing that. Is it the system, is it we don't have shooters or creators, is it both?

But again, the excuses alarm me.

[Sidthekid87]

He's gotta be in the low post more man he just has to be. I'm not sure why they haven't made that a focal point of there offense. He's the most skilled finisher over big men on the team by a large large margin. They gotta run so much more post ups for him.

[HumbleRen]

Let's get this out of the way - Midrange and improving the handles are a key to next season for Barnes personally. After that he needs to change his mindset to more of a scorer mentality. The roster around him really isn't suited for his skill-set, so anything he can provide is a plus at this stage this season. I don't get high or low anymore as he isn't going to magically hit a bunch of jumpers for the remaining games. I like that he's starting to drive and take mid range jumpers more. Let him develop his "guard" skills. His decision making in general has gotten more passive this season and into the later stages as opposed to last season where he was more aggressive as the season went on.

But, the Raptors need to figure out their offense. They have played two seasons with this exact same team (now adding Poeltl), and no one knows what their teammate is doing or when to expect passes. That's a huge issue and something that comes back to what Nurse is doing. How does your team have zero chemistry on offense after nearly two full seasons? They need to fix this offense as a whole and they have the highest paid coach in the NBA as a supposed offensive minded coach.

Masai needs to make some roster changes going into next season. Make a decision - are you making Barnes a cornerstone or not? If not, then trade him. If yes, then trade others.

Positionless basketball was the biggest lie the Warriors has brought to the game. It only worked because Draymond is the best defender of the modern nba era and they had 3 of the best shooters OAT.

Masai and Bobby need to look around the league and realize they miscalculated.

Memphis, Nuggets, Sixers, Celtics, Bucks, Cavs, Suns and the Kings are the top 8 teams in the league. You know what they got in common ? They’re all painfully traditional in terms of roster construction.

This happens all of the time in the Tech World, sometimes you just completely misread the direction of the industry is going in and it sets you back YEARS.

I believe this is what is happening with the FO.

[HumbleRen]

Honestly, I think this whole collision of skillsets, 'using' Scottie in the right way, etc etc... is just masking that he has massive holes in his game.

It's real simple, he needs to learn how to shoot. Just like any other NBA player, he has to shoot. Otherwise he's tough to use in almost any situation.

I believe in him, I think he'll improve. But, gotta come back next season with a reliable 15-18 footer. It's just that simple.

I agree but there’s way more nuance to it then just simply he needs to get better at shooting.

His weaknesses are more pronounced BECAUSE he’s playing out of position.

Sure and he COULD maybe look better in a different offensive system. But he'll hit the same ceiling anyways.

Our offense is a mess, there's no arguing that. Is it the system, is it we don't have shooters or creators, is it both?

But again, the excuses alarm me.

I don’t think it’s excuses, more so just the reality of the situation.

We’re near last in every single metric when it comes to offence outside of transition and points off turnovers. That’s not a Scottie thing, that’s a roster thing.

[Duffman100]

I agree but there’s way more nuance to it then just simply he needs to get better at shooting.

His weaknesses are more pronounced BECAUSE he’s playing out of position.

Sure and he COULD maybe look better in a different offensive system. But he'll hit the same ceiling anyways.

Our offense is a mess, there's no arguing that. Is it the system, is it we don't have shooters or creators, is it both?

But again, the excuses alarm me.

I don’t think it’s excuses, more so just the reality of the situation.

We’re near last in every single metric when it comes to offence outside of transition and points off turnovers. That’s not a Scottie thing, that’s a roster thing.

It can be both at the same time. like you said.