Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[gambitx777]

So
Beal
For
Simmons/ Kevin Knox and keon Johnson
#3 and #23 works in the trade checker.

They can resign grant and fill out the team and move on no payment past this year and Simmons with a major down grade over Beal and it a pretty meh contract.

I mean if they are convinced on going all in on dames last ride. This does it. It's not smart
But 2 first for Beal and done that's not terrible. Simmons is a way worse player. The other two are filler.

I mean number #3 is a hefty price but this draft after wemby has a lot of questions.
23 is solid value but other than that? Knox is waiver wire fodder, johnson is a late first who hasn't done ****. Simmons is an over paid undersized 2 guard that they have a replacement for on the team and an upgrade for in Beal.

It's a good deal And if they try to negotiate I would say no thanks go pay more for jaylan brown and hang up.

I really think this year Beal has some trade value with several teams in desperation mode to try and make one more run work before the new rules kick in and some young teams figure it out. The west will be the wild west next year. Gun it and go for it boys.

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How does this draft after Wemby have a lot of questions? Miller and Scoot are both blue chip prospects.

The Blazers are never going to give up #3 and #23 to get Beal and get no picks back. Maybe we could get them to do #3, Simmons, and filler for #8 and Beal. Scoot and Dame together probably aren't a perfect fit, so moving back allows the Blazers to either take a better fit, or package #8 and #23 for something else.

I would do #8 and Beal for #3 and Simmons in a heartbeat. Scoot is a tremendous prospect. He would have gone #1 in some previous years.

Get whatever we can in S&T for Kuzma and Zingus, and build around Scoot/Simmons/Kispert/Deni/Gafford/Davis.

Brandon miller is not slipping to 3.

Scoot is a bit small at 6'2. The advanced stats are not kind to him. He turns the ball over a lot. His defence is sus. He isn't a can't miss guy. Everyone else after that in to the late loto has serious questions about their shooting and defence.

Listen I'm not saying it's likely but weirder things have happened. If a team is sold on going all in and dame wants Brad and Brad oks it. I wouldn't be shocked if they gave up two picks in a meh draft to get brad for nothing of real value player wise. Like if portald looks at these guys and don't see value and don't see a lot late either then it's not that wild of an idea. Beal is a huge upgrade over Simmons.

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[NatP4]

Trading Beal+8 for Scoot would go down as one of the dumbest trades in NBA history.

With our luck, Scoot would top out as an average starter, we go nowhere anytime soon. Portland lands Ausar at 8 and turns into a contender with Dame/Beal/Ausar/Sharpe/Nurkic

[joshuacf]

Trading Beal+8 for Scoot would go down as one of the dumbest trades in NBA history.

With our luck, Scoot would top out as an average starter, we go nowhere anytime soon. Portland lands Ausar at 8 and turns into a contender with Dame/Beal/Ausar/Sharpe/Nurkic

Trading a hugely overpaid, negative asset in Beal for Scoot would be one of the dumbest trades in NBA history. Got it.

What do you think you're going to get from Beal? You think you're gonna get 5 FRP's, plus maybe Mikal Bridges?

You're deluded.

[NatP4]

Trading Beal+8 for Scoot would go down as one of the dumbest trades in NBA history.

With our luck, Scoot would top out as an average starter, we go nowhere anytime soon. Portland lands Ausar at 8 and turns into a contender with Dame/Beal/Ausar/Sharpe/Nurkic

Trading a hugely overpaid, negative asset in Beal for Scoot would be one of the dumbest trades in NBA history. Got it.

What do you think you're going to get from Beal? You think you're gonna get 5 FRP's, plus maybe Mikal Bridges?

You're deluded.

Try again. You proposed Beal+8 for 3.

And Beal is not a negative asset, that’s just silly. Overpaid? Definitely, could easily be the 3rd piece on a contending team. He would be a game changer for a team like the clippers.

[NatP4]

Would Boston trade Brown straight up for Beal? Probably

Would Portland trade the 3rd pick for Brown? Probably

8+ Beal for 3 is total nonsense.

[joshuacf]

Brandon miller is not slipping to 3.

Scoot is a bit small at 6'2. The advanced stats are not kind to him. He turns the ball over a lot. His defence is sus. He isn't a can't miss guy. Everyone else after that in to the late loto has serious questions about their shooting and defence.

Listen I'm not saying it's likely but weirder things have happened. If a team is sold on going all in and dame wants Brad and Brad oks it. I wouldn't be shocked if they gave up two picks in a meh draft to get brad for nothing of real value player wise. Like if portald looks at these guys and don't see value and don't see a lot late either then it's not that wild of an idea. Beal is a huge upgrade over Simmons.

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Brandon Miller probably won't slip to 3 because the Hornets like his fit alongside LaMelo better. Not because Miller is better than Scoot. From the Hornets GM: "I think we can be a little bit picky and take into consideration not only the overall talent but also the position."

Ja is 6'2.

He, like a lot of young guards, turns the ball over sometimes. John Wall averaged 4 turnovers at Kentucky. Ja averaged 5.2 in his final season at Murray State. Trae Young averaged 5.2 in college. Scoot averaged..... 3.4.

Scoot has the physical tools to be a great defender.

Genuine question: do you think all of the scouts who have been hyping up Scoot are just wrong? That the buzz surrounding him is unjustified?

[joshuacf]

Would Boston trade Brown straight up for Beal? Probably

Would Portland trade the 3rd pick for Brown? Probably

8+ Beal for 3 is total nonsense.

I said 8 and Beal for 3 and Simmons. Try to read the words on the page. I know reading can be difficult, but it helps to know the other person's argument before you go running your mouth.

According to your logic, because Beal isn't a negative asset, then Simmons isn't a negative asset either, right? Because Simmons is overpaid but still productive, just like Beal.

[NatP4]

Brandon miller is not slipping to 3.

Scoot is a bit small at 6'2. The advanced stats are not kind to him. He turns the ball over a lot. His defence is sus. He isn't a can't miss guy. Everyone else after that in to the late loto has serious questions about their shooting and defence.

Listen I'm not saying it's likely but weirder things have happened. If a team is sold on going all in and dame wants Brad and Brad oks it. I wouldn't be shocked if they gave up two picks in a meh draft to get brad for nothing of real value player wise. Like if portald looks at these guys and don't see value and don't see a lot late either then it's not that wild of an idea. Beal is a huge upgrade over Simmons.

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Brandon Miller probably won't slip to 3 because the Hornets like his fit alongside LaMelo better. Not because Miller is better than Scoot. From the Hornets GM: "I think we can be a little bit picky and take into consideration not only the overall talent but also the position."

Ja is 6'2.

He, like a lot of young guards, turns the ball over sometimes. John Wall averaged 4 turnovers at Kentucky. Ja averaged 5.2 in his final season at Murray State. Trae Young averaged 5.2 in college. Scoot averaged..... 3.4.

Scoot has the physical tools to be a great defender.

Genuine question: do you think all of the scouts who have been hyping up Scoot are just wrong? That the buzz surrounding him is unjustified?

Yes, of course. Happens every year. Were the scouts wrong about Kuminga over Wagner? Clearly. What about Jalen Green over Josh Giddey? Yes.

How about James Wiseman over Lamelo Ball? RJ Barret over Darius Garland? Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic? Josh Jackson over De’Aaron Fox?

Comparing Scoot to Morant already disqualifies any opinion on the matter though.

[NatP4]

Would Boston trade Brown straight up for Beal? Probably

Would Portland trade the 3rd pick for Brown? Probably

8+ Beal for 3 is total nonsense.

I said 8 and Beal for 3 and Simmons. Try to read the words on the page. I know reading can be difficult, but it helps to know the other person's argument before you go running your mouth.

According to your logic, because Beal isn't a negative asset, then Simmons isn't a negative asset either, right? Because Simmons is overpaid but still productive, just like Beal.

I didn’t call Simmons a negative asset. Jaylen Brown isn’t a negative asset, but he is of little or no use to a rebuilding team like the Wizards.

[joshuacf]

Would Boston trade Brown straight up for Beal? Probably

Would Portland trade the 3rd pick for Brown? Probably

8+ Beal for 3 is total nonsense.

I said 8 and Beal for 3 and Simmons. Try to read the words on the page. I know reading can be difficult, but it helps to know the other person's argument before you go running your mouth.

According to your logic, because Beal isn't a negative asset, then Simmons isn't a negative asset either, right? Because Simmons is overpaid but still productive, just like Beal.

I didn’t call Simmons a negative asset. Jaylen Brown isn’t a negative asset, but he is of little or no use to a rebuilding team like the Wizards.

So then stop referring to my trade as 8 and Beal for 3.

I can't wait for a team to come along and offer us the moon for an injury-prone player making 57 million in 2026, who can't even lead his team to the play-in game. Maybe the Spurs will offer us #1 and two future first-rounders!

[penbeast0]

...

Comparing Scoot to Morant already disqualifies any opinion on the matter though.

Just out of curiosity, why is that?

[NatP4]

...

Comparing Scoot to Morant already disqualifies any opinion on the matter though.

Just out of curiosity, why is that?

Well here’s the numbers:

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=scoot-henderson--ja-morant

Yes, one guy is playing pro ball, the other is playing for Murray state. Even still, sizeable gap. Morant was an elite floor general that forced help defense everytime he touched the ball. Legit 99 percentile athlete that was unguardable 1 on 1. He was already a top shelf pick and roll player.

The athleticism is extremely overstated with Scoot. It takes like 10 minutes of watching an actual ignite game (not highlights) to see this. Anyone who makes this comparison just hasn’t watched Scoot play. He’s closer to Dennis Smith Jr&Emmanual Mudiay, nothing like Morant.

[joshuacf]

...

Comparing Scoot to Morant already disqualifies any opinion on the matter though.

Just out of curiosity, why is that?

Well here’s the numbers:

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=scoot-henderson--ja-morant

Yes, one guy is playing pro ball, the other is playing for Murray state. Even still, sizeable gap. Morant was an elite floor general that forced help defense everytime he touched the ball. Legit 99 percentile athlete that was unguardable 1 on 1. He was already a top shelf pick and roll player.

The athleticism is extremely overstated with Scoot. It takes like 10 minutes of watching an actual ignite game (not highlights) to see this. Anyone who makes this comparison just hasn’t watched Scoot play. He’s closer to Dennis Smith Jr&Emmanual Mudiay, nothing like Morant.

21 points for Scoot vs 24 for Ja.

6.1 rebounds vs 5.6.

7.6 assists vs 9.9.

1.4 steals vs 1.7.

4 turnovers vs 5.1.

Better shooting numbers for Ja. Noticeably better PER.

(EDIT: Usage rate 6% higher for Ja than Scoot).

And Ja was playing in the Ohio Valley Conference, which is a bastion of competitive, high-level basketball chock full of NBA talent. Meanwhile, Scoot was playing in the lowly G-League, which is certainly not one of the best leagues in the world from a talent standpoint. How can we compare the two?

[Kanyewest]

I said 8 and Beal for 3 and Simmons. Try to read the words on the page. I know reading can be difficult, but it helps to know the other person's argument before you go running your mouth.

According to your logic, because Beal isn't a negative asset, then Simmons isn't a negative asset either, right? Because Simmons is overpaid but still productive, just like Beal.

I didn’t call Simmons a negative asset. Jaylen Brown isn’t a negative asset, but he is of little or no use to a rebuilding team like the Wizards.

So then stop referring to my trade as 8 and Beal for 3.

I can't wait for a team to come along and offer us the moon for an injury-prone player making 57 million in 2026, who can't even lead his team to the play-in game. Maybe the Spurs will offer us #1 and two future first-rounders!

How about Beal for Luka? neither could lead the team to the play-in - also a Luka/KP pairing could be interesting....

[joshuacf]

I didn’t call Simmons a negative asset. Jaylen Brown isn’t a negative asset, but he is of little or no use to a rebuilding team like the Wizards.

So then stop referring to my trade as 8 and Beal for 3.

I can't wait for a team to come along and offer us the moon for an injury-prone player making 57 million in 2026, who can't even lead his team to the play-in game. Maybe the Spurs will offer us #1 and two future first-rounders!

How about Beal for Luka? neither could lead the team to the play-in - also a Luka/KP pairing could be interesting....

Not enough value. If we don't get at least Luka, #10, and a future FRP for Beal, it will go down as one of the dumbest trades in NBA history.

/s

[payitforward]

Trading Beal+8 for Scoot would go down as one of the dumbest trades in NBA history.

With our luck, Scoot would top out as an average starter, we go nowhere anytime soon. Portland lands Ausar at 8 and turns into a contender with Dame/Beal/Ausar/Sharpe/Nurkic

Trading a hugely overpaid, negative asset in Beal for Scoot would be one of the dumbest trades in NBA history. Got it.

What do you think you're going to get from Beal? You think you're gonna get 5 FRP's, plus maybe Mikal Bridges?

You're deluded.

Maybe "deluded" is too strong a word, but I do think you've nailed one of the two big problems I'm seeing in these discussions:

1. Beal isn't going to get the return people seem to think he'll bring. He's entering his 12th season. He has a lot miles on the clock. He's not as productive as he was a few years ago. He's likely to get less productive not more productive. His contract is certainly not high value -- & it also makes it somewhat problematic for a team to acquire him & fit him into their salary scheme.

2. Trading Brad is not going to bring us current NBA players who will "turn things around" for the Wizards, turning us into "a good team."

Of those two problems -- or it would be better to call them "fantasies" -- the second is the more damaging one, IMO.

The Wizards need to rebuild for crying out loud! The team needs to actually move towards its next generation. Towards the unknown.

[payitforward]

To tell the truth, there are only 3 guys I think it's definitely worth keeping, & they aren't the names you might expect:
Kispert is developing well. Keep him.
Goodwin is already a plus player & has plenty of room to grow.
Gill is good value. For as long as it lasts, that gets him a roster spot.

Then there are these 4 guys:
Deni -- given that he's only 22, I wouldn't put him on the market this off season, but he needs to take a real jump real soon. If not, cut the cable at the deadline.
Johnny Davis -- he gets another season. Anyway, he's guaranteed & he's basically untradeable given his putrid rookie season.
Xavier Cooks -- cheap & guaranteed & also probably untradeable, so he gets this year.
Gafford stays for now, but I'd be listening to offers all the same.

That's 7 guys.
But Kispert & Goodwin are the only 2 among them that I'd feel confident would be with us in '24-25.

You want to keep Porzingis for a while? Sure. But I'd definitely be listening to offers.
You want to give Huff & Jackson 2-way deals? Sure. But I'd be looking to upgrade.

As to the rest:
Todd must go -- obviously.
Brad must go.
Kuz must go.
Wright should also go: the guy is 31. Trade him for youth & picks while he still has a fair amount of value.
Morris is a solid player who might conceivably get a R1 pick in return from a team that needs him. If there's a deal that brings us youth, trade him at the next deadline.

[gambitx777]

Trading Beal+8 for Scoot would go down as one of the dumbest trades in NBA history.

With our luck, Scoot would top out as an average starter, we go nowhere anytime soon. Portland lands Ausar at 8 and turns into a contender with Dame/Beal/Ausar/Sharpe/Nurkic

Well other people mentioned 8 I personally don't think our pick needs to be included.
So in my trade we would keep 8 and get 3 and 23 Simmons keon Johnson and Kevin Knox. Nothing of value player wise and two picks. Not bad for brad, considering brad is better at everything than simmons. Honestly my idea for getting 3 was not to get the picture cknto select a player. It was to trade it back, get more value out of the Beal trade by getting a trade back from a team like the jaz, magic, spurs, pavers, OKC or NYC with lots of extra draft capital to spend.

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[gambitx777]

To tell the truth, there are only 3 guys I think it's definitely worth keeping, & they aren't the names you might expect:
Kispert is developing well. Keep him.
Goodwin is already a plus player & has plenty of room to grow.
Gill is good value. For as long as it lasts, that gets him a roster spot.

Then there are these 4 guys:
Deni -- given that he's only 22, I wouldn't put him on the market this off season, but he needs to take a real jump real soon. If not, cut the cable at the deadline.
Johnny Davis -- he gets another season. Anyway, he's guaranteed & he's basically untradeable given his putrid rookie season.
Xavier Cooks -- cheap & guaranteed & also probably untradeable, so he gets this year.
Gafford stays for now, but I'd be listening to offers all the same.

That's 7 guys.
But Kispert & Goodwin are the only 2 among them that I'd feel confident would be with us in '24-25.

You want to keep Porzingis for a while? Sure. But I'd definitely be listening to offers.
You want to give Huff & Jackson 2-way deals? Sure. But I'd be looking to upgrade.

As to the rest:
Todd must go -- obviously.
Brad must go.
Kuz must go.
Wright should also go: the guy is 31. Trade him for youth & picks while he still has a fair amount of value.
Morris is a solid player who might conceivably get a R1 pick in return from a team that needs him. If there's a deal that brings us youth, trade him at the next deadline.

I agree with almost everything piff says here! Except Gill, cooks is Gill but slightly cheaper and slightly younger. I'd like to remove Gill. But everything else is spot on. I would how ever think if we can sign KP to a long term deal with less money for his security sake. 5-125 that puts him at 25mill a year and that's really good value for a borderline all-star bug. If he stays healthy that's really good value. I'd to that or a little more in a heart beat.

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[payitforward]

...cooks is Gill but slightly cheaper and slightly younger. I'd like to remove Gill. ...

Keep in mind that we do need 15 players!
Gill is cheap & good value. That said, would I keep him over a young guy who's a long shot? No.

...sign KP to a long term deal with less money for his security sake. 5-125 that puts him at 25mill a year and that's really good value for a borderline all-star bug....

I don't pay that kind of money for a bug, no matter how close to all star he is. But maybe there's some good kind of bugs I don't know about...?