2023-24 General Thread

[FarBeyondDriven]

On cue, we are shopping this years draft pick according to national reports

Where the Kings are in development they only have a finite amount of resources and you can’t play around with prospects

this is what poorly run organizations do. They keep mortgaging the future thinking they're a player away instead of continuing to add good young talent through the draft and developing it. There is nobody we're getting with the #13 pick via trade that is better than a player we could draft there. Sure, maybe for next year we get more production, maybe. But not enough to put us over the top and it won't make up for the cap hit and loss of a cheap rookie contract and being able to watch that prospect develop before our eyes and become a better player than the guy we traded for.

no, its what lower level playoff teams with stars in their primes do.

they dont gamble on youth that may not pay out with their limited assets. what position were Minnesota Indiana/Dallas/Clippers/Suns whoever in relative to what we are before their recent trades, and what did they do

go down the list of the standings and how many teams in the playoffs or with stars have draft picks outgoing?

And yes, many feel the Kings who had a positive record against the top 3 teams in the west aren't galaxies away from solidly competing

And for the billionth time, you have zero clue how these prospects will turn out, so stop the they will be better than proven players stuff

nah, don't think that I will

[BoogieTime]

So can anyone think of any more in and out traded draft picks than the below?
We will see the end of what happens when you don't continually replenish your asset base if this continues with a trade of the #13 and if the 1st conveys next year without bringing another in. 1 x first round pick in over a 15-20 year span is not great as an organisation. In fact it would be probably last in the entire NBA, and for a team that continually selected in the top 10 it's amazing.

OUT:
July 6, 2023 - Kings trade Richaun Holmes/Olivier-Maxence Prosper (#24) for Cash Considerations.

July 6, 2022 - Kings trade Justin Holiday/Mo Harkless/'24 protected 1st for Kevin Huerter (2025 protected 1-12, 2026 protected 1-10). If not conveyed Atl will receive Sac 2026 & 2027 2nd round picks.

July ?, 2015 - Kings trade Nik Stauskas, Carl Landry, Jason Thompson, a future first-round pick and the right to swap first-round picks in 2016 and 2017 to the 76ers in exchange for the rights to Arturas Gudaitis and Luka Mitrovic.

This one luckily didn't end up costing the Kings as much with the #14 pick going to Boston after a later trade with Philly.

IN:
February 20, 2017 - Kings trade DeMarcus Cousins, Omri Casspi for Buddy Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway, 2017 1st round Pick (NOP), 2017 2nd round pick (PHI)

Then that pick was #10 in 2017 where the Kings could have used it on Donovan Mitchell (#13)/Bam Adebayo (#14)
Instead traded #10 (Zach Collins) for #15 (Justin Jackson) & #20 (Harry Giles) where they could have even gone for any two of John Collins (#19), OG (#23), Kyle Kuzma (#27), Derrick White (#29), Josh Hart (#30).
I believe the 2nd round pick was used on Frank Mason at #34. Later that draft Dillon Brooks (#45) and Isaiah Hartenstein (#43) were taken.

So the Kings could have come away from the 2017 draft with De'Aaron Fox, Donovan Mitchell & Dillon Brooks.
Fox/Mitchell/Garrett Temple/Zach Randolph/WCS
George Hill/Buddy/Brooks/Vince Carter/Kosta Koufos

Not a great team by any stretch of the imagination but at that point with the youth it would have been an exciting time.
Interesting that Dillon Brooks was selected by Houston and traded to Memphis for a future 2nd, and then started for Memphis his rookie season.

That usually follows the state of the team

If they are rebuilding picks will tend to flow in, if they are competing picks will flow out. We never had a smart ownership/GM embracing the tank. Picks flow in if you are selling off players that either dont fit in and hurt your record, or if you are trying to get worse for draft positioning, or money issues, or if you just want to play youth and are not concerned about winning.

That makes 0 sense. It's easy to say, never had a smart ownership/GM. A complete cop out.

Are the Kings literally the only team that has had this? I haven't done the research on it, but let's just say the Kings have traded FOR 1 x 1st in the last 20 years. Who is the next "worst" in this area?

Anyway, so you actually make THE point that Sacramento should be trading for draft assets. If it was because of dumb ownership/GM they didn't surely they shouldn't be moving down the same path? It certainly hasn't worked previously NOT trading for draft assets and no team looking to contend should switch that off. IE Dallas Mavericks. IE New York Knicks. IE Indiana Pacers.

Uh, it matters if they are currently trying to win.

Teams looking to compete now nearly always trade draft picks, whereas its nearly always teams rebuilding or not looking to compete now trading for them.

The Mavs/Knicks/Pacers were not trading for draft picks anytime when they were actually competing were they?

90% of the time, unless there is very unusual situation like a playoff team liking another prospect more later in the first round on draft day and trading down, a team currently winning isn't trading a good player for a draft pick unless they have money issues

Because teams competing now aren't trying to get worse which nearly always coincides with trading for draft picks. Teams who are rebuilding and looking for better draft positioning dont mind getting worse temporarily

[Lost in LA]

The Kings' main problem is a lack of contribution from players 3-8 on the roster, and that includes Murray, who like Barnes, disappears for long stretches. One thing that isn't clear to me is whether Brown calls plays in open play, or defers to the players on the court.
Some of our options on attack seemed limited and there were a lot of players standing around on the court, and we shot too many long range 3's, often contested.

I believe that Kuzma is worth a shot and should fit into the team in place of Barnes, who should be traded. Sasha is worth another season, but pretty much other than Lyles and he, all the rest of the bench is dispensable. Huerter should be kept if we lose Monk, and he could be the scoring leader of the bench mob, though obviously a different player. Davion has not lived up to the no 9 pick, and better players should be available to be the back up PG. I still think we need to lighten the load on Fox as PG and spread his load better for the long season. He isn't going to get any bigger or stronger, and wers down. We are very short of reliable scorers so that should be translate into more shots for Murray and Kuzma, if he joins.

Starting 5 would be:

Sabonis
Kuzma
Murray
Fox
Ellis

We do need at least one interior bench defender who is aggressive and physical to enhance the "softness" of the team overall. Levine to too expensive, and Bridges I doubt we can get. Dallas got better by improving around its 2 stars,and we need to do the same.

[OxAndFox]

That usually follows the state of the team

If they are rebuilding picks will tend to flow in, if they are competing picks will flow out. We never had a smart ownership/GM embracing the tank. Picks flow in if you are selling off players that either dont fit in and hurt your record, or if you are trying to get worse for draft positioning, or money issues, or if you just want to play youth and are not concerned about winning.

That makes 0 sense. It's easy to say, never had a smart ownership/GM. A complete cop out.

Are the Kings literally the only team that has had this? I haven't done the research on it, but let's just say the Kings have traded FOR 1 x 1st in the last 20 years. Who is the next "worst" in this area?

Anyway, so you actually make THE point that Sacramento should be trading for draft assets. If it was because of dumb ownership/GM they didn't surely they shouldn't be moving down the same path? It certainly hasn't worked previously NOT trading for draft assets and no team looking to contend should switch that off. IE Dallas Mavericks. IE New York Knicks. IE Indiana Pacers.

Uh, it matters if they are currently trying to win.

Teams looking to compete now nearly always trade draft picks, whereas its nearly always teams rebuilding or not looking to compete now trading for them.

The Mavs/Knicks/Pacers were not trading for draft picks anytime when they were actually competing were they?

90% of the time, unless there is very unusual situation like a playoff team liking another prospect more later in the first round on draft day and trading down, a team currently winning isn't trading a good player for a draft pick unless they have money issues

Because teams competing now aren't trying to get worse which nearly always coincides with trading for draft picks. Teams who are rebuilding and looking for better draft positioning dont mind getting worse temporarily

Huh? Dallas just traded for a pick LAST draft.
NY did it the draft prior.
Indiana traded Brogdan for a pick and Nesmith. Traded Levert for a pick. Both of them had injury plagued seasons that hampered the Pacers.

Dallas weren't trying to win?
NY weren't trying to win?
Pacers sucked due to injuries, but they were trying to win too.

Once again your being rigid in your thinking. There are 1 million and 1 ways to build a team and anyone can point to one of the differences to make a different point. This isn't a two sided thing so to simply point to:
Teams trying to win = trade their picks
Teams trying to lose = trading for picks
Isn't true at all.

[BoogieTime]

That makes 0 sense. It's easy to say, never had a smart ownership/GM. A complete cop out.

Are the Kings literally the only team that has had this? I haven't done the research on it, but let's just say the Kings have traded FOR 1 x 1st in the last 20 years. Who is the next "worst" in this area?

Anyway, so you actually make THE point that Sacramento should be trading for draft assets. If it was because of dumb ownership/GM they didn't surely they shouldn't be moving down the same path? It certainly hasn't worked previously NOT trading for draft assets and no team looking to contend should switch that off. IE Dallas Mavericks. IE New York Knicks. IE Indiana Pacers.

Uh, it matters if they are currently trying to win.

Teams looking to compete now nearly always trade draft picks, whereas its nearly always teams rebuilding or not looking to compete now trading for them.

The Mavs/Knicks/Pacers were not trading for draft picks anytime when they were actually competing were they?

90% of the time, unless there is very unusual situation like a playoff team liking another prospect more later in the first round on draft day and trading down, a team currently winning isn't trading a good player for a draft pick unless they have money issues

Because teams competing now aren't trying to get worse which nearly always coincides with trading for draft picks. Teams who are rebuilding and looking for better draft positioning dont mind getting worse temporarily

Huh? Dallas just traded for a pick LAST draft.
NY did it the draft prior.
Indiana traded Brogdan for a pick and Nesmith. Traded Levert for a pick. Both of them had injury plagued seasons that hampered the Pacers.

Dallas weren't trying to win?
NY weren't trying to win?
Pacers sucked due to injuries, but they were trying to win too.

Once again your being rigid in your thinking. There are 1 million and 1 ways to build a team and anyone can point to one of the differences to make a different point. This isn't a two sided thing so to simply point to:
Teams trying to win = trade their picks
Teams trying to lose = trading for picks
Isn't true at all.

And, Dallas traded for a first round pick in a way that they thought wouldnt hurt them on the court at all, to take on Richaun Holmes contract
The Pacers made that trade before Tyrese blossomed and they were a playoff team
New York got that pick after Kristaps Porzingis requested a trade and they weren't good?

I want to see where a playoff team is actually making themselves worse by trading for a draft pick, or doesn't have a better option to get a solid veteran. either teams are rebuilding, or they are somehow getting draft picks in a way that doesn't hurt them on the court and makes them immediately better

[OxAndFox]

So now it's just a PO team. Not teams trying to win. Whatever dude.

But let's keep with the "Uh, it matters if they are currently trying to win."
Looks like it's going to be a sweet off season for Washington/Portland and Detroit are going to be flush with picks because everyone else is...you know, trying to win. Even Detroit said last off season they want to compete quickly.

Watch these goal posts move again. LOL.

[BoogieTime]

So now it's just a PO team. Not teams trying to win. Whatever dude.

But let's keep with the "Uh, it matters if they are currently trying to win."
Looks like it's going to be a sweet off season for Washington/Portland and Detroit are going to be flush with picks because everyone else is...you know, trying to win. Even Detroit said last off season they want to compete quickly.

Watch these goal posts move again. LOL.

Yeah, I mean, just to establish here, you do understand that finishing as a non playoff team in the latter half of the lottery is what all smart teams fear?

The league has operated on this binary basis for awhile. Either teams are truly competitive for the most part or they are trying to get franchise talent in the draft and picking high in the lottery, which means being bad.

So non playoff teams trying to win is not anything thats really smart, thats no mans land

[LightTheBeam]

I've kinda brought myself to the fact that we are trading for Kuzma. The market looks so empty, and teams like the Rockets rumored after Bridges are going to be able to smash any offer we can make with ease. With that in mind, at least we should be a better team if we can resign Monk (Big if on resigning Monk, but man I really think Orlando would be making a mistake offering him 22+ a year.) Maybe i'm starting to cope, but

Barnes + Sasha + 13 for Kuzma
Huerter + 2nd + Duarte for Bruce Brown

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Kuzma - Sabonis
Monk - Brown - Lyles

It's gross to keep mortgaging our potential future upside for these kind of moves. But at least that's a legit 8 man rotation. And Kuzma I'm not huge on but if he can buy in to being a 3rd/4th scorer while playing defense and running the floor maybe it works out?

[OxAndFox]

I've kinda brought myself to the fact that we are trading for Kuzma. The market looks so empty, and teams like the Rockets rumored after Bridges are going to be able to smash any offer we can make with ease. With that in mind, at least we should be a better team if we can resign Monk (Big if on resigning Monk, but man I really think Orlando would be making a mistake offering him 22+ a year.) Maybe i'm starting to cope, but

Barnes + Sasha + 13 for Kuzma
Huerter + 2nd + Duarte for Bruce Brown

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Kuzma - Sabonis
Monk - Brown - Lyles

It's gross to keep mortgaging our potential future upside for these kind of moves. But at least that's a legit 8 man rotation. And Kuzma I'm not huge on but if he can buy in to being a 3rd/4th scorer while playing defense and running the floor maybe it works out?

Agreed.
And this is why people who want to keep trading picks don't understand that the Kings will never be in play for a guy like Bridges and better, because they're constantly wasting assets so they have to settle for the Kuzma's of the world which will 100% turn the Kings into a better version of the Chicago Bulls.

[OxAndFox]

And I will add, just like what Pelinka is setting up with the Lakers, every team needs to think about it right now. Young players are going to become super important under the new CBA.
Sacramento isn't any different. Sabonis and Fox won't be getting any cheaper and if you add a 3rd guy on big money (Grant), Monk resigns and then add a Keegan extension, that means good bye to Keon Ellis no matter what.

It's part of the reason I would extend a 5/18-20m offer to Edwards. It's not an amount that will ever restrict you and you lock in a guy that can defend throughout his prime. He might want to bet on himself, but I don't see better offers coming his way.
I said at the time with Keon, he needed to be locked up to a longer contract, even if it meant a little more money.
Colby you don't have to worry about yet and he needs to prove a little more, but I think he will this coming season.
Davion and Duarte they may need to get off of for some young talent.

I'm just putting it out there, every team will require 2-3 rookie scale players that are in legitimate rotation roles with at least 1 starter from the top of the league to the bottom. That's not going to be a set in concrete type thing, but we will see it happen.
Boston is in a good spot right now with contracts, expensive, but they don't have to get rid of anyone after this finals run, but next off season it's going to be difficult to see them keep White. Even then though, they did the right thing and locked up Pritchard on what is a great contract.

[codydaze]

My thoughts on what to do with pick 13 is to draft there as well, I think trading it (unless it's down to net two later first round picks), would be a mistake. If you trade #13, you're probably getting back a Jerami Grant/Kyle Kuzma caliber player who are good players but not exactly putting us over the hump.

My thought process is that if you hit on the pick, that player will have more value than the 13 pick would on its own. I mean, look at the Haliburton pick. If on draft night you would have offered #12 and Buddy Hield for Sabonis it likely would have been a firm no unless additional firsts came with at, I would guess at least one more plus a swap. You hit on Haliburton and now a player like that is available without the additional picks attached, I mean we even got a second round pick sent back to us. I'm not saying we'll find another player of Haliburton's caliber with the pick and there's always the chance the pick does not work out but I believe in Monte's track record when it comes to drafting to feel confident selecting at 13.

All of this is in addition to Ox's point about serviceable rookie scale players being so much more valuable under the current CBA.

[LightTheBeam]

I've kinda brought myself to the fact that we are trading for Kuzma. The market looks so empty, and teams like the Rockets rumored after Bridges are going to be able to smash any offer we can make with ease. With that in mind, at least we should be a better team if we can resign Monk (Big if on resigning Monk, but man I really think Orlando would be making a mistake offering him 22+ a year.) Maybe i'm starting to cope, but

Barnes + Sasha + 13 for Kuzma
Huerter + 2nd + Duarte for Bruce Brown

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Kuzma - Sabonis
Monk - Brown - Lyles

It's gross to keep mortgaging our potential future upside for these kind of moves. But at least that's a legit 8 man rotation. And Kuzma I'm not huge on but if he can buy in to being a 3rd/4th scorer while playing defense and running the floor maybe it works out?

Agreed.
And this is why people who want to keep trading picks don't understand that the Kings will never be in play for a guy like Bridges and better, because they're constantly wasting assets so they have to settle for the Kuzma's of the world which will 100% turn the Kings into a better version of the Chicago Bulls.

I don't think Kuzma raises our ceiling much but I acknowledge we need to do something. Maybe trading Barnes + Sasha for Collins + 2nd. At least we keep #13. Get a better fit at the 4, and add a minor asset.

I'd also try to find any team that would give us an expiring + future 1st for Huerter + Portland 2nd. Is there a world where Orlando trades us Denver 2025 1st + Ingles for Huerter + Portland 2nd? They need shooting and that's a very cheap buy that could bounce back on a great defense team. They likely move down less than 10 spots, more like 3-4 spots. But the benefit for Sac is that we then open our picks up to be traded again.

If we can resign Monk, and depending if the team goes cheap we can also use the MLE. Throw MLE at Kyle Anderson, Bruce Brown, Royce O'Neale, KCP and try to get a defensive wing off the bench that way.

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Collins - Sabonis
Mitchell - Colby - Monk - Royce O'Neale - #13 - Ingles - Lyles - FA Center

It's not ideal but based on what looks available, I'd be okay rolling into next year with that. After next year we have a large expiring Collins + player drafted at #13 + all future 1sts to trade for a real difference maker.

[LightTheBeam]

My thoughts on what to do with pick 13 is to draft there as well, I think trading it (unless it's down to net two later first round picks), would be a mistake. If you trade #13, you're probably getting back a Jerami Grant/Kyle Kuzma caliber player who are good players but not exactly putting us over the hump.

My thought process is that if you hit on the pick, that player will have more value than the 13 pick would on its own. I mean, look at the Haliburton pick. If on draft night you would have offered #12 and Buddy Hield for Sabonis it likely would have been a firm no unless additional firsts came with at, I would guess at least one more plus a swap. You hit on Haliburton and now a player like that is available without the additional picks attached, I mean we even got a second round pick sent back to us. I'm not saying we'll find another player of Haliburton's caliber with the pick and there's always the chance the pick does not work out but I believe in Monte's track record when it comes to drafting to feel confident selecting at 13.

All of this is in addition to Ox's point about serviceable rookie scale players being so much more valuable under the current CBA.

100%. I will trust Monte drafting. And it's not just Hali, there's plenty of good starters that get taken in the 10-20 range every year.

2023 had - Lively, Cason Wallace, Keyonte George, Jaime Jaquez, Podziemski, Whitmore

2022 - JDub, Duren, Mark Williams, Eason, Braun. And jury still out on Ochai, Griffin, Dieng..

2021 - Moody, Kispert, Sengun, Murphy, Jalen Johnson

I think its a 50/50 chance to get a solid role player. But even a 25% chance I'd take the risk and trust Monte to find the guy.

Our development as of late also seems to be slightly better. We saw some flashes of Colby.. Keon obviously was a great development story. Keegan has progressed nicely. Even Davion took a step forward the 2nd half of last year. We don't have a ton of guys to work with, but a lot more promising than the Kings of the teens.

[OxAndFox]

I've kinda brought myself to the fact that we are trading for Kuzma. The market looks so empty, and teams like the Rockets rumored after Bridges are going to be able to smash any offer we can make with ease. With that in mind, at least we should be a better team if we can resign Monk (Big if on resigning Monk, but man I really think Orlando would be making a mistake offering him 22+ a year.) Maybe i'm starting to cope, but

Barnes + Sasha + 13 for Kuzma
Huerter + 2nd + Duarte for Bruce Brown

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Kuzma - Sabonis
Monk - Brown - Lyles

It's gross to keep mortgaging our potential future upside for these kind of moves. But at least that's a legit 8 man rotation. And Kuzma I'm not huge on but if he can buy in to being a 3rd/4th scorer while playing defense and running the floor maybe it works out?

Agreed.
And this is why people who want to keep trading picks don't understand that the Kings will never be in play for a guy like Bridges and better, because they're constantly wasting assets so they have to settle for the Kuzma's of the world which will 100% turn the Kings into a better version of the Chicago Bulls.

I don't think Kuzma raises our ceiling much but I acknowledge we need to do something. Maybe trading Barnes + Sasha for Collins + 2nd. At least we keep #13. Get a better fit at the 4, and add a minor asset.

I'd also try to find any team that would give us an expiring + future 1st for Huerter + Portland 2nd. Is there a world where Orlando trades us Denver 2025 1st + Ingles for Huerter + Portland 2nd? They need shooting and that's a very cheap buy that could bounce back on a great defense team. They likely move down less than 10 spots, more like 3-4 spots. But the benefit for Sac is that we then open our picks up to be traded again.

If we can resign Monk, and depending if the team goes cheap we can also use the MLE. Throw MLE at Kyle Anderson, Bruce Brown, Royce O'Neale, KCP and try to get a defensive wing off the bench that way.

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Collins - Sabonis
Mitchell - Colby - Monk - Royce O'Neale - #13 - Ingles - Lyles - FA Center

It's not ideal but based on what looks available, I'd be okay rolling into next year with that. After next year we have a large expiring Collins + player drafted at #13 + all future 1sts to trade for a real difference maker.

I agree with this. But take Sasha out ya damn mouth.
Seriously, I want to see what he can do with a full training camp and familiarity. I think he will shock people and I highly doubt he gets moved unless its part of a large trade. The guy makes winning plays, is smart as hell and I Charles Barkley guarantee he is over 40% from 3 this coming season. He just needs to be played.
Think it would only take Barnes/Duarte for Collins anyway. It saves Utah a fair chunk of change (over $10m) if you buy into JC absolutely not option out.

[LightTheBeam]

Agreed.
And this is why people who want to keep trading picks don't understand that the Kings will never be in play for a guy like Bridges and better, because they're constantly wasting assets so they have to settle for the Kuzma's of the world which will 100% turn the Kings into a better version of the Chicago Bulls.

I don't think Kuzma raises our ceiling much but I acknowledge we need to do something. Maybe trading Barnes + Sasha for Collins + 2nd. At least we keep #13. Get a better fit at the 4, and add a minor asset.

I'd also try to find any team that would give us an expiring + future 1st for Huerter + Portland 2nd. Is there a world where Orlando trades us Denver 2025 1st + Ingles for Huerter + Portland 2nd? They need shooting and that's a very cheap buy that could bounce back on a great defense team. They likely move down less than 10 spots, more like 3-4 spots. But the benefit for Sac is that we then open our picks up to be traded again.

If we can resign Monk, and depending if the team goes cheap we can also use the MLE. Throw MLE at Kyle Anderson, Bruce Brown, Royce O'Neale, KCP and try to get a defensive wing off the bench that way.

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Collins - Sabonis
Mitchell - Colby - Monk - Royce O'Neale - #13 - Ingles - Lyles - FA Center

It's not ideal but based on what looks available, I'd be okay rolling into next year with that. After next year we have a large expiring Collins + player drafted at #13 + all future 1sts to trade for a real difference maker.

I agree with this. But take Sasha out ya damn mouth.
Seriously, I want to see what he can do with a full training camp and familiarity. I think he will shock people and I highly doubt he gets moved unless its part of a large trade. The guy makes winning plays, is smart as hell and I Charles Barkley guarantee he is over 40% from 3 this coming season. He just needs to be played.
Think it would only take Barnes/Duarte for Collins anyway. It saves Utah a fair chunk of change (over $10m) if you buy into JC absolutely not option out.

Ya I don't mind Sasha at all. He's different but he reminds me of Bjelica. Can be a sniper who makes the right cuts/passes and is smart enough to not be a liability on defense. Fine swapping Duarte in here np.

[BoogieTime]

I'm not quite as enthused on Vezenkov, non nba athleticism. Couldn't really move. He has some IQ to skip the ball along, but was pretty one dimensional too. I'm not sure he will be a hang up

[KF10]

Don’t like Kuzma. He is an upgrade over Barnes for sure but he doesn’t raise the ceiling of this team. I have concerns about him when he went to Washington. He wants to be an influencer instead of a winning basketball player. I wouldn’t touch him unless we can get him without sacrificing the #13.

Ingram is a serious upgrade and would raise this team’s ceiling. But his health issues is a big concern.

And if you guys heard that interview from Javale McGee a couple of days ago, it pretty much confirms my concerns that this team is mentally weak and lacks competitive fire.

Adding Ingram, who has a bland, nonchalant emote personality, isn’t something that will help this team’s problem. It just keeps things more or less the same.

Both players are flawed as hell. But if you want to swing for the fences, Ingram is your guy. I just hope he plays more on a consistent basis and shows some emotion every once in a while.

We already have a lot of players on the roster who are “laid-back” “lead by example” types. We need more dawgs and enforcers on this team.

[OxAndFox]

Don’t like Kuzma. He is an upgrade over Barnes for sure but he doesn’t raise the ceiling of this team. I have concerns about him when he went to Washington. He wants to be an influencer instead of a winning basketball player. I wouldn’t touch him unless we can get him without sacrificing the #13.

Ingram is a serious upgrade and would raise this team’s ceiling. But his health issues is a big concern.

And if you guys heard that interview from Javale McGee a couple of days ago, it pretty much confirms my concerns that this team is mentally weak and lacks competitive fire.

Adding Ingram, who has a bland, nonchalant emote personality, isn’t something that will help this team’s problem. It just keeps things more or less the same.

Both players are flawed as hell. But if you want to swing for the fences, Ingram is your guy. I just hope he plays more on a consistent basis and shows some emotion every once in a while.

We already have a lot of players on the roster who are “laid-back” “lead by example” types. We need more dawgs and enforcers on this team.

Spot on IMO.
The McGee interview was damning. Brown has tried and tried to get Fox and Sabonis to be leaders. They're fine in that they lead by example, but what this team needs is a vocal leader that will keep everyone on track. As you say, more Dawgs!
I don't see anyone out there that can truly fix that and is a legitimate target of the Kings.
They're all pretty much the same. Kuzma, Grant, Ingram. They're offensively gifted players that might just tune the likes of Sabonis and Fox out. I don't think Ingram would do that, so he is the guy that I would also take a chance on.

[OxAndFox]

I must say I love Keegan's attitude going into off-seasons. He hits the nail on the head with what he needs to work on. He mentions how much improvement he needs to make with play making. It was evident last season with the change in philosophy that the Kings had Fox and Monk that could create for themselves. That was it. Keegan has to improve in this area.

Imagine if Sabonis came out and said, I'm working with Lethal Shooter, or Luke, this off season to nail this mid range jump shot. But no, he's doing the same exact thing as last off season. SIGH.

[LightTheBeam]

Don’t like Kuzma. He is an upgrade over Barnes for sure but he doesn’t raise the ceiling of this team. I have concerns about him when he went to Washington. He wants to be an influencer instead of a winning basketball player. I wouldn’t touch him unless we can get him without sacrificing the #13.

Ingram is a serious upgrade and would raise this team’s ceiling. But his health issues is a big concern.

And if you guys heard that interview from Javale McGee a couple of days ago, it pretty much confirms my concerns that this team is mentally weak and lacks competitive fire.

Adding Ingram, who has a bland, nonchalant emote personality, isn’t something that will help this team’s problem. It just keeps things more or less the same.

Both players are flawed as hell. But if you want to swing for the fences, Ingram is your guy. I just hope he plays more on a consistent basis and shows some emotion every once in a while.

We already have a lot of players on the roster who are “laid-back” “lead by example” types. We need more dawgs and enforcers on this team.

Spot on IMO.
The McGee interview was damning. Brown has tried and tried to get Fox and Sabonis to be leaders. They're fine in that they lead by example, but what this team needs is a vocal leader that will keep everyone on track. As you say, more Dawgs!
I don't see anyone out there that can truly fix that and is a legitimate target of the Kings.
They're all pretty much the same. Kuzma, Grant, Ingram. They're offensively gifted players that might just tune the likes of Sabonis and Fox out. I don't think Ingram would do that, so he is the guy that I would also take a chance on.

not based in much but my beliefs lol.

Ingram has always had that I'm high look like he rather be elsewhere. Blessed with a lot of skills but doesn't seem to get any better.

On the other hand, Kuzma has done more with less talent, and has worked to where he is.

I've been a vocal anti trading 13 for Kuzma. But I'd rather have Kuzma. I think he fills more needs and vocally I think he's more of a leader than Ingram. I remember young Kuzma barking at Hield that he had to guard him because Bogdan was BBQ Chicken. He rebounds better, drives better, plays tougher.

I don't want either, but Ive never been an Ingram guy