NBA Trade Thread #12

[WesPeace]

Some of the takes of you guys are just very bad or very good,no middle lol..

Matas barely played half of season,hence why stats numbers arent that special. Second half of season much better with much more minutes and starter role eventually

[Infinity2152]

I'm with you on post #528

If I'm rebuilding the Bucks I don't want to be explaining to season ticket buyers that we're trading an MVP that led us to our most recent championship for 3 Chicago Bulls starters who struggled to get to 39 wins and couldn't make it out of the play in 3 years running. And in the process we're keeping Dame because we'd rather go forward with him than Giannis. If I'm one of those fans plunking down the credit card I's asking, THAT'S your plan?

I think almost all the people who want to say Matas is the Bulls' most valuable asset are really overrating their own player evaluation. He's shown that he's got tools and flashes of top line potential. You can afford to label him can't miss, the Bulls can't, other teams are constantly trying to trade unrealized potential as though it was still there. You don't know any more than the Bulls do. It's not a negative that you've seen what Coby White can do and are at the point where you've got to decide if he's going to stay, get better or regress with the big contract. A proven commodity should be part of your roster the same as the low priced potential.

My man, that's a pretty harsh view of our guys, lmao! Matas and Giddey just got here, so the not making it out the play in for 3 years doesn't even reflect them, lol. With our win rate after the Lavine trade, have little doubt if Lavine was traded last offseason, Bulls would have more than 39 wins. Both Giddey and Matas looked way better at the end of the year than the beginning. Coby's looked like a pretty consistent, improving 20 pt area, 3pt shooting guard who's still pretty young. I view his expiring contract as a plus to whatever team is trading for him. They get his full performance for only $12 mill this year, probably allows them to add one or two more players, and have bird rights.

Don't know if paying and keeping Coby would be the right move, but I'm trying to get the equivalent of $40 mill player value in a Coby trade at least. Whether in a star trade, trade for $12 mill young guy and a first, role player and two firsts, that's the value we should be targeting.

In the scenario mentioned above Coby's $12 million dollar salary won't help the Bucks "add a player or two". However, I agree that he'd give them a year to see how he does and if they want to re-sign him, but if I was the GM I'd probably re-route him for assets (then again I wouldn't do that trade with the Bulls).

It allows them to add Vuc as a $20 mill expiring 18/11 center to the deal. Or another $28 mill in assets as opposed to if he was getting the $40 mill right now. His being cheap for a year means they can take much more salary in the deal. An additional player or two (or three).

Of course, this is based on whether he gets $40 mill, but even if it's $25 or $30 mill, $12 mill now rather than $25-$40 mill for the same player lets you do much more right now.

[Infinity2152]

New idea, smaller move. Lebron's probably coming back. They still need centers. Doesn't seem like they're interested in Vucevic, but Collins is a different type of center. They'll have Lebron and Jarred Vanderbilt at PF. Rui Hachimura is an expiring $18 mill contract. Thoughts on Collins for Rui? Win for both teams, assuming the Bulls don't move Vucevic?

Think they're roughly equal, but we have a surplus of centers and they have a surplus of PFs.

[sco]

New idea, smaller move. Lebron's probably coming back. They still need centers. Doesn't seem like they're interested in Vucevic, but Collins is a different type of center. They'll have Lebron and Jarred Vanderbilt at PF. Rui Hachimura is an expiring $18 mill contract. Thoughts on Collins for Rui? Win for both teams, assuming the Bulls don't move Vucevic?

Think they're roughly equal, but we have a surplus of centers and they have a surplus of PFs.

I'd rather try Smith for Vandy...works in fanspo. I personally like Smith more, but Billy refuses to play him. Vandy was an elite defender pre-injury.

[Infinity2152]

New idea, smaller move. Lebron's probably coming back. They still need centers. Doesn't seem like they're interested in Vucevic, but Collins is a different type of center. They'll have Lebron and Jarred Vanderbilt at PF. Rui Hachimura is an expiring $18 mill contract. Thoughts on Collins for Rui? Win for both teams, assuming the Bulls don't move Vucevic?

Think they're roughly equal, but we have a surplus of centers and they have a surplus of PFs.

I'd rather try Smith for Vandy...works in fanspo. I personally like Smith more, but Billy refuses to play him. Vandy was an elite defender pre-injury.

Would be good with that one too. Leaves us 2 centers with almost $40 mill expiring. What if Maluach is BPA at our pick? He'd probably be the smartest pick, but could he even possibly get any minutes? I'd do it anyway, but wonder how determined AK is to trade at least one center.

They were playing Maxi Klieber, barely played Jaxson Hayes and Gobert destroyed them 27 pts, 24 rebounds, alley oops. Alex Len DNP coaches decision.

[The Box Office]

We'll see next year regarding Matas. Until then. If Milwaukee really wanted Matas included in a Giannis deal, do we deal Matas? That's a "yes" for me.

[ChettheJet]

New idea, smaller move. Lebron's probably coming back. They still need centers. Doesn't seem like they're interested in Vucevic, but Collins is a different type of center. They'll have Lebron and Jarred Vanderbilt at PF. Rui Hachimura is an expiring $18 mill contract. Thoughts on Collins for Rui? Win for both teams, assuming the Bulls don't move Vucevic?

Think they're roughly equal, but we have a surplus of centers and they have a surplus of PFs.

Rui doesn't make the Bulls so much better. A year ago I would have endorsed getting him as a step up at the 4, moving on from DeRozan and trying Patrick at the 3. Likewise I was for someone like John Collins. Today's roster is very different from a year ago. Matas should put on some muscle and lay claim to the PF spot, you don't need Rui to be a very expensive backup when Williams and Phillips can do that and what's needed is a shooter at the SF.

I think the Lakers might be happy getting 24 minutes from Jaxson Hayes on a bigger contract than he has had. I doubt they really want an expensive and expiring Collins for the other 24 minutes. That would really seem to reduce their interest in Vucevic. I think the objective for the Bulls should be to start next season with Collins and Smith at the 5 and find a young guy who needs to learn from those two veterans after moving on from several excess guards.

I get that sco keeps saying that Billy won't play Smith but the true situation was playing Vuc gave the Bulls the scoring and rebounding and kept up his trade value and Collins gave the Bulls better interior defense than Smith behind Vuc. I sincerely doubt Billy has a vendetta against Smith, he did what he had to do to give the Bulls a better chance to win and finishing 15-5 should tell anybody he made the right call.

[Infinity2152]

New idea, smaller move. Lebron's probably coming back. They still need centers. Doesn't seem like they're interested in Vucevic, but Collins is a different type of center. They'll have Lebron and Jarred Vanderbilt at PF. Rui Hachimura is an expiring $18 mill contract. Thoughts on Collins for Rui? Win for both teams, assuming the Bulls don't move Vucevic?

Think they're roughly equal, but we have a surplus of centers and they have a surplus of PFs.

Rui doesn't make the Bulls so much better. A year ago I would have endorsed getting him as a step up at the 4, moving on from DeRozan and trying Patrick at the 3. Likewise I was for someone like John Collins. Today's roster is very different from a year ago. Matas should put on some muscle and lay claim to the PF spot, you don't need Rui to be a very expensive backup when Williams and Phillips can do that and what's needed is a shooter at the SF.

I think the Lakers might be happy getting 24 minutes from Jaxson Hayes on a bigger contract than he has had. I doubt they really want an expensive and expiring Collins for the other 24 minutes. That would really seem to reduce their interest in Vucevic. I think the objective for the Bulls should be to start next season with Collins and Smith at the 5 and find a young guy who needs to learn from those two veterans after moving on from several excess guards.

I get that sco keeps saying that Billy won't play Smith but the true situation was playing Vuc gave the Bulls the scoring and rebounding and kept up his trade value and Collins gave the Bulls better interior defense than Smith behind Vuc. I sincerely doubt Billy has a vendetta against Smith, he did what he had to do to give the Bulls a better chance to win and finishing 15-5 should tell anybody he made the right call.

Yeah, the Rui for Collins is more a fit based than talent or need based trade. They make about the same money, are both expiring, and both could be more valuable on the other team. Would be fine if it was for Vucevic, but do not want Collins, Vucevic and Smith all together on the team next year. Either Pat Will or Matas could be better at SF, we don't have a true PF here, imo. I think Smith plays if either Collins or Vucevic is gone.

Honestly, all three of our centers are better than any of the Lakers centers, imo. And they don't need Rui with Lebron and Vanderbilt at PF. Would love to see Collins/Smith next year. Think Vucevic is by far the hardest and least likely to be moved. Last game when it counted, healthy Jaxson Hayes got DNP- coaches decision. In a game Gobert killed them. Zero minutes.

Matas would be that shooter at SF and Rui would be the starting PF for a year, not an expensive backup. As opposed to Collins actually being an expensive backup. Who starts over him? Matas starts at PF as we are now, who's at SF? Pat Williams? I'm assuming Giddey at PG and White at SG. Matas speed, wing defense and length at SF is more important than adding strength/weight to play PF, imo. I'd want him to get stronger of course, but not put on weight to be a PF.

Lauri came here SF size, like Matas. The "Finnisher" flying all over the court. Bulked up to play PF. Was pretty good. Slimmed down and playing his best basketball at SF.

[Dez]

Lauri had one All-Star season and went back to being mediocre with the added bonus of being a horrible contract.

Also Matas hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be labelled a shooter given the low volume.

[Infinity2152]

Lauri Markannen last 3 years:
2025 Per 36 22pt, 7 rbs, 2 assts VORP .7, WinShare 2.2, TS 57% PER 15.6 Only played 47 games, injured much of the year and they were tanking
2024 Per 36 25pts, 9rbs, 2 assts VORP 2.6, Win Share 6.2, TS 63% PER 21.5 55 games
2023 Per 36 27 pts, 9 rbs, 2 assts VORP 3.3, Win Share 8.2, TS 64% PER 22.1 66 games

When exactly was he mediocre? Last season when the team sucked, he was hurt and they were tanking? Because I'll take TS 63%, PER 22, Win Share 8.2 players all day long.

And nobody's saying Matas is a shooter yet. Can't we project what we hope a player will become? He got up 13 shots with 6.3 3pt attempts per 36 in his rookie year, and he didn't even play much the first half. He better be able to shoot. He shot 36% from 3 rookie year. Is it reasonable to think a 20 year old will get better at shooting? He's already at NBA average.

He actually played in 80 games and averaged 3.3 attempts per game. That's statistically significant volume when projecting a rookie. Shot a total of 266 in-game threes this season. Low volume? Over 3 attempts in 19 minutes/gm? Lauri started his rookie year, shot the same 36% from three at almost the same rate per 36 (7 attempts for Lauri, or .7 more attempts per 36 minutes)

Not focused on him being a shooter, anyway. Want him to stay smaller, faster, SF size because he's a good attacker with speed. Slashing/dunking. Same as Lauri when he came in the league. That's the comparison I was talking about.

[Chi town]

Lauri had one All-Star season and went back to being mediocre with the added bonus of being a horrible contract.

Also Matas hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be labelled a shooter given the low volume.

Low volume?

What’s low to you?

Buz was 4.5 3s per game once a starter with real mins. Per 36 he’s strong volume.

[WindyCityBorn]

Lauri had one All-Star season and went back to being mediocre with the added bonus of being a horrible contract.

Also Matas hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be labelled a shooter given the low volume.

He has shown can he shoot. Which is the only reason he fell to us. It’s all the other stuff can can do that makes him potentially special. There is glaring hole in his gasket outside of size/strength which will come with maturity.

[WindyCityBorn]

Lauri had one All-Star season and went back to being mediocre with the added bonus of being a horrible contract.

Also Matas hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be labelled a shooter given the low volume.

Low volume?

What’s low to you?

Buz was 4.5 3s per game once a starter with real mins. Per 36 he’s strong volume.

Year he wasn’t low volume for 20 year old rookie that was really an afterthought on offense.

[Dez]

Lauri had one All-Star season and went back to being mediocre with the added bonus of being a horrible contract.

Also Matas hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be labelled a shooter given the low volume.

Low volume?

What’s low to you?

Buz was 4.5 3s per game once a starter with real mins. Per 36 he’s strong volume.

Per 36 is irrelevant here.

His season as a whole he averaged 36% on 3.3 attempts per game, that’s average.

Not enough to label him a shooter, he still needs to improve his consistency.

[Chi town]

Lauri had one All-Star season and went back to being mediocre with the added bonus of being a horrible contract.

Also Matas hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be labelled a shooter given the low volume.

Low volume?

What’s low to you?

Buz was 4.5 3s per game once a starter with real mins. Per 36 he’s strong volume.

Per 36 is irrelevant here.

His season as a whole he averaged 36% on 3.3 attempts per game, that’s average.

Not enough to label him a shooter, he still needs to improve his consistency.

He barely played first 60 games.

Post all star he started played 26mpg and shot 36.1 on 4.9 attempts.

I’m actually high on Buz as a shooter because his length and release he shoots and makes contested 3s that other guys like Pat wouldn’t even shoot.

I think he will eventually be an 8 3s per game guy as he gets more in ball opps. He also showed he has a stepback.

[Infinity2152]

Lauri had one All-Star season and went back to being mediocre with the added bonus of being a horrible contract.

Also Matas hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be labelled a shooter given the low volume.

Low volume?

What’s low to you?

Buz was 4.5 3s per game once a starter with real mins. Per 36 he’s strong volume.

Per 36 is irrelevant here.

His season as a whole he averaged 36% on 3.3 attempts per game, that’s average.

Not enough to label him a shooter, he still needs to improve his consistency.

If you want to take his per 36 out and not account for minutes played, average NBA team has 15 players. If 3.3 is average and we don't account for minutes played, that's 49.5 3PA per game per team. Average team last year shot 37.6 3's, way less than 49.5. Why using minutes played and adjusting for per 36 matters. Some of those players barely play, some play 36-38 minutes. Actual average for NBA players not accounting for minutes is around 2.5 attempts, way less than 3.3.

And average volume should be enough to be relevant anyway. Nobody's saying he's only a shooter or even primarily a shooter. I think his biggest impact is his ability to drive. He's shot well enough to be considered a shooter in the line-up imo, not saying he's a pure shooter or primary jump shooter like White for instance. In a lineup of Giddey, White, Ayo, Matas, Collins, would consider White and Matas the primary shooters. Bulls have a LOT of players shooting 35% or above from three so not the best example, but you get the point. He looks like he shoots well enough and with enough volume for his shooting to be a plus at SF. Coach is not taking him out at the end of games when we need a three, Matas is probably hitting the floor.

Nobody would have a problem calling him a bad shooter if he shot 266 3's this season and made 30 of them. Wouldn't be saying it wasn't enough volume to tell if he could shoot either. There is a stat for 3pt attempt rate. Matas was .48, meaning almost half his shots were three point attempts.

[Indomitable]

The warriors should have got Nikola

[Ccwatercraft]

Of the three trade pieces, who do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby? League wise, outside Bulls fan forums.

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

I think all three should have very good value, especially Giddey. Don't agree a lot of teams could beat our best offer without killing their teams, unless the Bucks value picks over everything else. And we have a good number of picks.

Bucks do have a first 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030, 2031. They're only missing 2029 and those pick swaps all those other years are with Pelicans, could be just as bad or worse than theirs anyway. They could legit both be lottery teams each year.

Coby.

Giddey needs an extension.

Matas didn't have a great year if we're comparing him to past rookies. The contract is valuable, but he isn't a good player right now.

I was under the impression that Josh.could get 41 mil, the 30.numbet was just some rumor / post trade chatter.

[Clint Eastwood]

The warriors should have got Nikola

Yes, if they lose and decide vooch would help in stephs waning years, and knowing they arent going to pay kuminga, would you trade vuc and lonzo in sign and trade for kuminga? Heard this floated by a podcast recently.

[sco]

The warriors should have got Nikola

Yes, if they lose and decide vooch would help in stephs waning years, and knowing they arent going to pay kuminga, would you trade vuc and lonzo in sign and trade for kuminga? Heard this floated by a podcast recently.

I don't think the Warriors could make the $ work in a S&T of Vuc for Kuminga, IIRC.

I think Kuminga's value has fallen based on his benching, post Jimmy trade, not sure how much we'd need to pay him.