2025 Draft prospects - thread 3

[Jcool0]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2025

Newest mock. They are usually dialed better than anybody closer to the draft. I they are spot on for top 9 picks. Then it gets really weird.

Don’t think AK passes on KJ Noa or Demin.

In 2005 maybe not in 2025.

[DuckIII]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2025

Newest mock. They are usually dialed better than anybody closer to the draft. I they are spot on for top 9 picks. Then it gets really weird.

Don’t think AK passes on KJ Noa or Demin.

In 2005 maybe not in 2025.

I was going to comment on this as well, and have seen it repeatedly in recent years. I don't know if its a reputation thing or if in fact nbadraft.net has been more accurate than others. Without doing any comparisons, I can say I stopped paying attention to nbadraft.net as being a worthwhile mock many years ago. Their projections often seem way off base to me. But I really don't know.

[BullsSD]

I agree 3/4 is set with Giddey Buz Pat. Enough mins for Giddey and Buz to get 33, Pat 25 and pick 5-10.

Giddey is the PG. If the Bulls treat his rotational minutes as 3/4 minutes we are already ****. That would be an absolutely idiotic use of the extremely unique opportunity to have a huge, running offense being led by a 6'8 PG.

Good lord, I hope the plan is not to have Giddey out there and ADD a full time PG.

Makes me cringe seeing people put Giddey in lineups as a 2 or a 3. He is a 1. Only a 1. Unless he develops a consistent 40% 3 ball and much better defense, that is his only position he will ever play for us when on the floor. Period.

[DuckIII]

I agree 3/4 is set with Giddey Buz Pat. Enough mins for Giddey and Buz to get 33, Pat 25 and pick 5-10.

Giddey is the PG. If the Bulls treat his rotational minutes as 3/4 minutes we are already ****. That would be an absolutely idiotic use of the extremely unique opportunity to have a huge, running offense being led by a 6'8 PG.

Good lord, I hope the plan is not to have Giddey out there and ADD a full time PG.

Makes me cringe seeing people put Giddey in lineups as a 2 or a 3. He is a 1. Only a 1. Unless he develops a consistent 40% 3 ball and much better defense, that is his only position he will ever play for us when on the floor. Period.

There's no point in having Giddey to play any position other than PG. Its literally why OKC was willing to trade him. The uniquely valuable thing about him is that he permits you have a much bigger lineup than the other team without limiting your ability to run.

I suspect what you will hear in response is the ancient cliche of "you play the position you guard." That statement, presumably uttered by someone at a basketball camp in 1993 and then repeated until it became conventional wisdom, is the 180 degree opposite of how the NBA works. First, switching is the norm so you end up guarding all kinds of positions anyway thoughout an NBA game. Second, Giddey will never be assigned to "guard the other team's small forward." He will be assigned to guard their least offensively threatening wing/guard, no matter what position that guy is.

Giddey
White
Matas
CMB
Collins (I refuse to include Vuc)

or

Giddey
White
Matas
Smith/Pat
Sorber

or

Giddey
White
Bryant
Matas
Collins

etc., etc., etc. Giddey is the PG. That does not mean he can't be out there sometimes in three guard sets such as with Ayo and Coby. He has some versatility that way. But if you aren't playing your incredibly unique 6'8 PG at PG, you are doing it wrong.

[Chi town]

I agree 3/4 is set with Giddey Buz Pat. Enough mins for Giddey and Buz to get 33, Pat 25 and pick 5-10.

Giddey is the PG. If the Bulls treat his rotational minutes as 3/4 minutes we are already ****. That would be an absolutely idiotic use of the extremely unique opportunity to have a huge, running offense being led by a 6'8 PG.

Good lord, I hope the plan is not to have Giddey out there and ADD a full time PG.

It’s defense not offense. Giddey can’t defend PGs. We need a guy that can hopefully shoot and defend 1s. This is why Tre was so good. Zo and Ayo can defend 1s.

Coby and Giddey get cooked by 1s.

The fact remains BILLY NEVER PLAYS BIG.
Giddey Coby Buz CMB/Pat Collins … DOESNT EXIST. Billy would never play them together.
Buz at the 3 doesn’t exist because Giddey at the 3 does.

[DuckIII]

I agree 3/4 is set with Giddey Buz Pat. Enough mins for Giddey and Buz to get 33, Pat 25 and pick 5-10.

Giddey is the PG. If the Bulls treat his rotational minutes as 3/4 minutes we are already ****. That would be an absolutely idiotic use of the extremely unique opportunity to have a huge, running offense being led by a 6'8 PG.

Good lord, I hope the plan is not to have Giddey out there and ADD a full time PG.

It’s defense not offense. Giddey can’t defend PGs.

As you can see from my above post, I assumed this would be the response. See above for my thoughts on that.

[Chi town]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2025

Newest mock. They are usually dialed better than anybody closer to the draft. I they are spot on for top 9 picks. Then it gets really weird.

Don’t think AK passes on KJ Noa or Demin.

In 2005 maybe not in 2025.

I was going to comment on this as well, and have seen it repeatedly in recent years. I don't know if its a reputation thing or if in fact nbadraft.net has been more accurate than others. Without doing any comparisons, I can say I stopped paying attention to nbadraft.net as being a worthwhile mock many years ago. Their projections often seem way off base to me. But I really don't know.

They are way off until a few days before the draft. Then they are the best.

Yes, their site and content is mid

[Chi town]

Giddey is the PG. If the Bulls treat his rotational minutes as 3/4 minutes we are already ****. That would be an absolutely idiotic use of the extremely unique opportunity to have a huge, running offense being led by a 6'8 PG.

Good lord, I hope the plan is not to have Giddey out there and ADD a full time PG.

Makes me cringe seeing people put Giddey in lineups as a 2 or a 3. He is a 1. Only a 1. Unless he develops a consistent 40% 3 ball and much better defense, that is his only position he will ever play for us when on the floor. Period.

There's no point in having Giddey to play any position other than PG. Its literally why OKC was willing to trade him. The uniquely valuable thing about him is that he permits you have a much bigger lineup than the other team without limiting your ability to run.

I suspect what you will hear in response is the ancient cliche of "you play the position you guard." That statement, presumably uttered by someone at a basketball camp in 1993 and then repeated until it became conventional wisdom, is the 180 degree opposite of how the NBA works. First, switching is the norm so you end up guarding all kinds of positions anyway thoughout at NBA game. Second, as an assignment Giddey will never be assigned to "guard the other team's small forward." He will be assigned to guard their least offensively threatening wing, no matter what position that guy is.

Giddey
White
Matas
CMB
Collins (I refuse to include Vuc)

or

Giddey
White
Matas
Smith/Pat
Sorber

or

Giddey
White
Bryant
Matas
Collins

etc., etc., etc. Giddey is the PG. That does not mean he can't be out there sometimes in three guard sets such as with Ayo and Coby. He has some versatility that way. But if you aren't playing your incredibly unique 6'8 PG at PG, you are doing it wrong.

I fully agree.

Billy doesn’t. He loves two guards with Guddeybat all times. It took Tre Ayo and Zo all going down to start Huerter.

[Chi town]

How many mins did Buz play at SF last year?

How many mins did Buz and Pat play together?

Tells you everything you need to know.

I think it’s Billy’s biggest issue as a coach.

[sco]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2025

Newest mock. They are usually dialed better than anybody closer to the draft. I they are spot on for top 9 picks. Then it gets really weird.

Don’t think AK passes on KJ Noa or Demin.

I don't hate this. I think I could be happy with any pick other than Queen or Demin (I might be convinced on him if his shooting is better than last season, which I heard was rumored). Knuepple, KJ, Newell, Esengue, Sorber, CMB, Bryant, Coward, Beringer or Clifford would all be fine.

[DuckIII]

I fully agree.

Billy doesn’t. He loves two guards with Guddeybat all times. It took Tre Ayo and Zo all going down to start Huerter.

I don't really care. I don't mean that to be dismissive of your opinion. I mean there are two things about the current team I consider in evaluating who to draft:

1. Josh Giddey
2. Matas Buzelis

That's the list. Its BD's job to coach the roster he gets and to make logical use of the players on it. If he fails, he fails and that's on him. But I don't consider that in determining what "should" happen.

I also don't accept the common opinion that BD is a rigid coach. He's had **** rosters that made no sense and did what he did. I fully believe he will adapt strategies as the roster changes. If he does not, well then he needs to go. But its irrelevant to my draft or positional analysis.

[sco]

Makes me cringe seeing people put Giddey in lineups as a 2 or a 3. He is a 1. Only a 1. Unless he develops a consistent 40% 3 ball and much better defense, that is his only position he will ever play for us when on the floor. Period.

There's no point in having Giddey to play any position other than PG. Its literally why OKC was willing to trade him. The uniquely valuable thing about him is that he permits you have a much bigger lineup than the other team without limiting your ability to run.

I suspect what you will hear in response is the ancient cliche of "you play the position you guard." That statement, presumably uttered by someone at a basketball camp in 1993 and then repeated until it became conventional wisdom, is the 180 degree opposite of how the NBA works. First, switching is the norm so you end up guarding all kinds of positions anyway thoughout at NBA game. Second, as an assignment Giddey will never be assigned to "guard the other team's small forward." He will be assigned to guard their least offensively threatening wing, no matter what position that guy is.

Giddey
White
Matas
CMB
Collins (I refuse to include Vuc)

or

Giddey
White
Matas
Smith/Pat
Sorber

or

Giddey
White
Bryant
Matas
Collins

etc., etc., etc. Giddey is the PG. That does not mean he can't be out there sometimes in three guard sets such as with Ayo and Coby. He has some versatility that way. But if you aren't playing your incredibly unique 6'8 PG at PG, you are doing it wrong.

I fully agree.

Billy doesn’t. He loves two guards with Guddeybat all times. It took Tre Ayo and Zo all going down to start Huerter.

We get caught up in position labels here too often. Fortunately, there is no debate that Giddey is our lead ball handler/playmaker on offense. Like others said, Giddey is best when guarding opponents worse forward on defense.

That all said, even Giddey and Matas should be ignored when we're considering who to draft. We should draft the BPA, regardless. Especially in today's semi-positionless game.

[Chi town]

I fully agree.

Billy doesn’t. He loves two guards with Guddeybat all times. It took Tre Ayo and Zo all going down to start Huerter.

I don't really care. I don't mean that to be dismissive of your opinion. I mean there are two things about the current team I consider in evaluating who to draft:

1. Josh Giddey
2. Matas Buzelis

That's the list. Its BD's job to coach the roster he gets and to make logical use of the players on it. If he fails, he fails and that's on him. But I don't consider that in determining what "should" happen.

I also don't accept the common opinion that BD is a rigid coach. He's had **** rosters that made no sense and did what he did. I fully believe he will adapt strategies as the roster changes. If he does not, well then he needs to go. But its irrelevant to my draft or positional analysis.

I’ll give you the crap rosters.

We get CMB he will be playing the 5.
Same for Noa.
I’m here for it too. I think lineups with them at the 5 could give us a fresh way to play and run like crazy.

[burlydee]

I fully agree.

Billy doesn’t. He loves two guards with Guddeybat all times. It took Tre Ayo and Zo all going down to start Huerter.

I don't really care. I don't mean that to be dismissive of your opinion. I mean there are two things about the current team I consider in evaluating who to draft:

1. Josh Giddey
2. Matas Buzelis

That's the list. Its BD's job to coach the roster he gets and to make logical use of the players on it. If he fails, he fails and that's on him. But I don't consider that in determining what "should" happen.

I also don't accept the common opinion that BD is a rigid coach. He's had **** rosters that made no sense and did what he did. I fully believe he will adapt strategies as the roster changes. If he does not, well then he needs to go. But its irrelevant to my draft or positional analysis.

Right there with you. The entire advantage of Giddey is that you can fill the starting lineup with size without losing pace or ball movement. AK has always valued size in the backcourt so id be surprised if he saw Giddey as anything other than a point guard.

[WesPeace]

I fully agree.

Billy doesn’t. He loves two guards with Guddeybat all times. It took Tre Ayo and Zo all going down to start Huerter.

I don't really care. I don't mean that to be dismissive of your opinion. I mean there are two things about the current team I consider in evaluating who to draft:

1. Josh Giddey
2. Matas Buzelis

That's the list. Its BD's job to coach the roster he gets and to make logical use of the players on it. If he fails, he fails and that's on him. But I don't consider that in determining what "should" happen.

I also don't accept the common opinion that BD is a rigid coach. He's had **** rosters that made no sense and did what he did. I fully believe he will adapt strategies as the roster changes. If he does not, well then he needs to go. But its irrelevant to my draft or positional analysis.

I’ll give you the crap rosters.

We get CMB he will be playing the 5.
Same for Noa.
I’m here for it too. I think lineups with them at the 5 could give us a fresh way to play and run like crazy.

CMB shouldnt be playing center on legit serious team, he is 6'7, even if he has 7'0 wingspan and I also hope Essengue isnt forced to play center.

[Senor Chang]

Joan Beringer has great measurables. I didn’t pay much attention to him but man 6’11” barefoot, 7’4.5” wingspan, 9’3” standing reach and he doesn’t turn 19 until Nov 11th (about a month older than Essengue). Is this guy a good basketball player? Because physically he seems to have what we need at center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dan Z]

USA Today has a new mock draft.

In it Queen goes 7th and Bailey 8th.

Bulls pick KJ.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2025/06/20/nba-mock-draft-ace-bailey-kon-knueppel-cedric-coward-vj-edgecombe-both-rounds/84280420007/

[2weekswithpay]

Can someone tell me what’s not to like about CMB. Seems like a winning player and a dog to me. Can score in the post, can rebound, is quick for a big, can defend, can play-make. His one weakness seems to be shooting, but usually that is the easiest trait to get better at. You can’t teach what CMB brings. Having 2 dogs in Matas and CMB would be what the Bulls need. Especially around Giddey and Coby.

https://youtu.be/GY9szNsoAwQ?si=phrLaQeTNoWVTP_I


Plus I wouldn’t mind getting a rook that won’t demand the ball so much so Matas can get more volume and opportunities.

I don't hate him, but my issue with CMB stems from what I see teams scheme against non-shooting threats. Westbrook, Kris Dunn, Josh Hart, Sochan, Fultz, Ben Simmons, Giddey, Draymond, etc. NBA teams aggressively help off these players, assuming they choose to guard them at all when they don't have the ball. Putting their centers on them and letting them roam, defend the rim, or mess up any sets. If CMB never shoots the ball at a respectable clip, then he's reliant on creating a system/environment for him to succeed offensively. If the goal is for him to become something more than a 20-24 minute utility big. Also, shooting is a lot harder to improve than fans make it seem.

Spoiler:

To use a recent Bulls player as an example. Thad Young shares a lot of similarities with CMB. He was a solid passer and defender. He could put the ball on the floor a bit, and he wasn't a good shooter at 6'6. Thad wasn't effective in his first season as a Bull despite having a career year from 3 with 3.5 attempts per game at 35.6%. Thad only shot 50% from 2, and TS% was 52%, which was well below the league average that year. Next season, Billy's first year as coach, Thad shot 58% from 2, and had a TS% of 57.8%. Both marks are career bests if you exclude seasons with under 1000 minutes and Thhad didn't shoot well from 3 that season. Thad also averaged a career high of 4.3 assists per game.

What caused the change? Let's look at who Thad played with his first season as a Bull under Boylen vs his second season under Billy.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Some roster changes and coaching can make a big difference. Not having to play with Dunn helps. As does internal development from players like Zach, and playing with no crowds. I want to point out that Billy prioritized playing Thad with more shooting compared to Boylen. Under Boylen, Thad played more minutes with Gafford, WCJ, and Kornet than he did with Lauri. In Thad's 2 seasons as a Bull, lineups with him and Lauri had a net rating of 0.96, which is great considering we were below .500 in both seasons. The Thad/Gafford and Thad/WCJ pairings weren't effective a -3.6 net rating and a -2.94 net rating for these lineups.

Spoiler:

CMB has a lot of advantages over Thad, he's bigger, a better driver, a better athlete, etc. We do have two bigs that can shoot in Vuc and Smith, and Billy has shown that he knows how to utilize a player like CMB IMO. I'm not against drafting CMB either, but I push back on the idea that the shooting isn't a problem because I watch teams scheme against these players all the time. The shooting becomes an issue quite often, and it requires an investment on behalf of the coach and GM to create an environment for these players to shine, assuming it's worth it.

[MGB8]

There's no point in having Giddey to play any position other than PG. Its literally why OKC was willing to trade him. The uniquely valuable thing about him is that he permits you have a much bigger lineup than the other team without limiting your ability to run.

I suspect what you will hear in response is the ancient cliche of "you play the position you guard." That statement, presumably uttered by someone at a basketball camp in 1993 and then repeated until it became conventional wisdom, is the 180 degree opposite of how the NBA works. First, switching is the norm so you end up guarding all kinds of positions anyway thoughout at NBA game. Second, as an assignment Giddey will never be assigned to "guard the other team's small forward." He will be assigned to guard their least offensively threatening wing, no matter what position that guy is.

Giddey
White
Matas
CMB
Collins (I refuse to include Vuc)

or

Giddey
White
Matas
Smith/Pat
Sorber

or

Giddey
White
Bryant
Matas
Collins

etc., etc., etc. Giddey is the PG. That does not mean he can't be out there sometimes in three guard sets such as with Ayo and Coby. He has some versatility that way. But if you aren't playing your incredibly unique 6'8 PG at PG, you are doing it wrong.

I fully agree.

Billy doesn’t. He loves two guards with Guddeybat all times. It took Tre Ayo and Zo all going down to start Huerter.

We get caught up in position labels here too often. Fortunately, there is no debate that Giddey is our lead ball handler/playmaker on offense. Like others said, Giddey is best when guarding opponents worse forward on defense.

That all said, even Giddey and Matas should be ignored when we're considering who to draft. We should draft the BPA, regardless. Especially in today's semi-positionless game.

If there is some huge difference in talent, sure.

But if prospects are comparable, fit matters. And the Bulls play man, switching occurs but folks switch back, and Giddey is a defensive liability on the perimeter against a fast/jock perimeter player, a defensive neutral against a (mid-talent) forward who can neither simply overpower Giddey or just get past him. Meaning most 3s, slower 2s, and not very big, not overly strong 4s.

Absent Bailey falling, I don’t see any such huge talent gap that would make me ignore fit.

[2weekswithpay]

Read on Twitter

Essengue only played 12 minutes. He was -11 tonight, so maybe that's the reason for the low minutes. Worth noting that Bayern had the best record in the German league and was the only German team to play in the Euroleague. Bayern is probably the best team he's played, and Essengue has been ineffective in his 5 matchups against them.