Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers

[HotRocks34]

:lol:

This thread really delivered, man. And it's not even finished yet!

All the heavy hitters (or many of them, anyways) came out, positions were taken, joy was had. I'm lovin' it!

[boateng]

What a gold mine of a thread. I probably wasted at least three hours reading this, but it was worth it.

Couple things here:

* There has never been a player in the history of the league, to my knowledge, who averaged 20.0+ PPG or more in his 19th season or beyond. Do I think Kobe will break that mold? Yes. Is it a risky bet to take for someone coming off of major surgery and who will be 36 years old next year? Perhaps. And no, Kobe does not need to score 20.0+ PPG to earn his new contract, IMO. But as Kobe is probably most known as a scorer, looking at how other scorers have fared late in their careers might be instructive to determine where things could be headed for Kobe as a player.

* This season, Kobe Bryant will become the perimeter player with the most career minutes in NBA history to ever start an NBA season. Kidd has like 2200 or so more career minutes on his resume than does Kobe, but he started out last season slightly behind where Kobe is now in career minutes.

* If someone approached Tim Duncan before the start of last season and asked him this question:

Tim, would you feel ok about having taken a pay cut if the end result is to put you in a position in The Finals where if one of two of your teammates makes a free throw (if the two players, combined, simply go 1-2 on two FTA) then you win both a ring and FMVP?

...my guess is that Duncan would answer "yes, I'm good with that."

* If you examine this thread to this point in time, in its totality, the general tone of who is playing "defense" and who is playing "offense" seems fairly clear IMO. Usually when a person or group of people plays "defense," there is a reason why they are playing defense. Or at least a reason why they feel they need to play defense. I'm not saying that the "playing offense" side of the argument here is in the right, but I think there might be a reason why the "defense" side is playing defense, at least on first glance at the details of this contract extension.

My feelings on this matter -- who is playing "defense" and who is playing "offense" in this thread regarding the issue of the contract extension -- are similar to when I read the supposed Instagram message Kobe wrote to the person who questioned his motives or priorities, a supposed message which was posted earlier in the thread.

This column also has the feeling, to me, of what might be termed "playing defense" or "damage control:"

http://yhoo.it/1cMobq4

Between his signature on a two-year, $48.5 million contract extension and a cross-country flight to the East Coast on Monday, Kobe Bryant was left befuddled and bemused by those who declared him greedy and uncaring about chasing championships.

*
*
*

Finally, if you don't like Kobe Bryant or the "myth" that you might feel that has been built up around Kobe Bryant -- and that view has been ably presented in this thread, IMO -- then I would think that you might view this contract extension as something like a "gift from the gods." Because now everything you may have tried to unsuccessfully convince people of in the past regarding Kobe could have become instantaneously easier to get across to those same people going forward.

So, Kobe wins with the big new deal. Kobe Fans win because Kobe remains with the team and he will be (apparently) the highest paid player in the league for the next two years. Kobe Critics win because now they have apparent ammunition with which they can use to try to blast Kobe as a selfish player who really isn't as concerned with winning as he supposedly was made out to be. Lakers Haters win because they feel, it seems, the team will be irrelevant for the next few years. I win because I get to sit back and waste hours reading threads and articles like this one while doing my Michael Jackson impersonation:



The only group of people who apparently may not win with this extension are the Lakers-Not-Kobe-First Fans who may not think this deal is in the best interests of the team.

For this last group of people, you have my sincere sympathies. This contract extension very nearly seemed to be a win-win-win for everyone involved, except for your number.

And though I feel your pain, I'm still going to kick on back, Michael Jackson-style, and chomp on my popcorn while enjoying the festivities as they play themselves out.

Let's be honest he is clearly worth the 24million a year he is getting paid when you take into account marketability, BUT at this stage of his career he should have been willing to take a pay cut to be able to build a team around him.
I agree with the poster above about it being a pride thing and he wanting to be the best paid player in the league. It's his loss anyway because the lakers will not have a competent rooster and therefore his last 2 years will be wasted if anything.

[Frosty]

For the people suggesting that there is likely a plan we aren't privy to, history is not necessarily a great indicator of future success.

Many things have changed over the years. When Buss bought the Lakers they had a good core and a number one draft pick owing from archaic free agent rules where Goodrich went to Utah as a free agent a couple years earlier they had to pay LA with a few draft picks, one of which turned into Magic Johnson. There was no lottery at the time so draft picks were much less risky. There was also no salary cap so teams with money could rule the leaque. It's not shocking that the bigger markets were winning back then.

Then they got Worthy with another number one draft pick they had recieved from Cleveland. The first time a Champ had the number one pick, likely the last too.(I never checked)

That was the basis of their 80's dynasty.

Then came the 90's and they struggled to become a real contender but they did have a solid core. They free'd up cap room to sign Shaq. They took a gamble on a HS player in Kobe when HS'ers were still considered a big gamble. (today they are scouted much earlier because they are only in college for a year these days) There is no "Shaq" available in the near future. They won't have a solid core and they don't have valuable draft picks.

Then they brought in Phil. The early 2000's were great in LA. Then came fallouts with Kobe and Shaq, Kobe and coaches etc. A couple years of mediocrity before they pulled a deal that brought in Gasol. They had some questionable trade asssets to make this a reality and even though their value was questionable at the time it is much better then anything LA currently has or will have in the next couple years.

Back comes Phil to take them to the promised land again.

Today they will have zero trade assets, 1 draft pick that is likely mid-draft and I'm pretty sure they can't trade it. There is no one player out there that will turn them around, except maybe Lebron. But they have nothing to surround them with. Miami had Wade, and back room deals were likely going on with the big three. LA will have no one but an aging Kobe that won't adapt or reduce his role.

Thre is no Phil Jackson to come in and get things on track. They have a coach that prefers up tempo and Kobe is coming back who is likely not going to be running and gunning.

They could have enough Cap room to sign a big name next year but bringing in another scorer like Carmello doesn't seem like a great fix. Also consider that this would require them to renounce Gasol, Hill etc. And be pretty much left with minumum level players. Min doesn't get you much. If Kobe, a younger Gasol, Howard and Nash doesn't get you far, how will an older, post surgery Kobe and one max contract get you anywhere?

The plan is similar to what it was when they told PJ they were going a new direction after 2004, milk Kobe for a couple years and then do something. The problem will be, what happens to their brand if Kobe is unhappy and noisey about it for the next few years as he realizes he isn't going to get another run at a ring. This isn't the same Laker ownership as in the past. It has lost a bit of it's luster and the Clippers have become a valid option as an LA team. (who'd have thought this would ever happen?)

I just see very few levers for LA in the near future. It seems more likely that it will be a complete rebuild after 3 seasons.

[Yoshun]

The problem with all of the people calling Kobe selfish is this, what if Kobe takes a pay cut and the Lakers still don't put the proper pieces around him? What if he takes a pay cut and they blow the money on a player like Carmelo Anthony? It would be different if they had some kind of plan, like the Heat did. If they went to Kobe and said, "Hey, we have Lebron and Bosh waiting for spots on our team. They've already agreed to sign, you just need to take a little pay cut so we can afford it." Then people would have a legit criticism, but I seriously doubt that's what happened. If there is a solid plan, sure why not? Otherwise you have to take your money when it's there, there are no garuntees.

I'm not a Laker fan, so I don't really care if the Lakers win, maybe that's my problem. I am, however, a fan of Kobe and business. If my boss asked me to take a pay cut in order to higher someone else, I'd laugh and walk out.

[Mirjalovic]

You guys acting as if Kobe is a scrub or something.

First, He's Kobe Bryant

Second, he still playing in very high standard last season until that damn injury, definetely worthy his current contract (try to look at his performance, not age)

Third, yeah hes injured now, but he is Kobe Bryant, im pretty sure Lakers FO know if Kobe recovering well, thats why they brave enough to seal the deal. They are also one of the better FO in the NBA. I believe they have some good plans for the next 3 years, the capspace still there, draft pick(s) still there. Etc

If the Lakers wont win anything in the next 3 years, i wont complain, been a fan since i was a kid, supporting the Lakers was one of my best decision ever, what a joyful ride.. then just wait the Lakers do proper rebuilding in no time.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[TheBargnaniRule]

The problem with all of the people calling Kobe selfish is this, what if Kobe takes a pay cut and the Lakers still don't put the proper pieces around him? What if he takes a pay cut and they blow the money on a player like Carmelo Anthony? It would be different if they had some kind of plan, like the Heat did. If they went to Kobe and said, "Hey, we have Lebron and Bosh waiting for spots on our team. They've already agreed to sign, you just need to take a little pay cut so we can afford it." Then people would have a legit criticism, but I seriously doubt that's what happened. If there is a solid plan, sure why not? Otherwise you have to take your money when it's there, there are no garuntees.

I'm not a Laker fan, so I don't really care if the Lakers win, maybe that's my problem. I am, however, a fan of Kobe and business. If my boss asked me to take a pay cut in order to higher someone else, I'd laugh and walk out.

My problem is not with Kobe taking the money offered to him. More power to him. He's probably given up on number 6 (probably due to number 6) and just wants a nice final paycheck. Given his service to the franchise he's entitled to that. Although at least the rhetoric about him only caring about championships can thankfully die out. An ultimate winner like Duncan would never have pulled this move.

I'm just amazed that the Lakers organisation would proceed in this way. I mean we have no idea what he's going to look like post-Achilles injury.

[Pb]

Actually I think that is a great move by the Lakers, they are gonna suck big time the next two years, increasing his options for good picks, while having Kobe Fanboys happy, and not losing much appealing because the Kobe effect, while sending a really big message to FA interested in BIG money, Durant anyone? (where is he gonna get paid that much?).

[DynastySS]

As a Warriors fan I am ecstatic. Great work Kobe and the Lakers!

[Frosty]

Actually I think that is a great move by the Lakers, they are gonna suck big time the next two years, increasing his options for good picks,

Unfortunately their draft picks are going elsewhere in most cases for the next few years. Their best bet would be to tank this year. They can't give their first round pick away 2 years in a row so the 2017 one is flexible.


2014 second round draft pick to Milwaukee
L.A. Lakers' 2014 2nd round pick to Milwaukee (via Phoenix to Minnesota)

2015 first round draft pick to PhoenixL.A. Lakers' 1st round pick to Phoenix protected for selections 1-5 in 2015, 1-3 in 2016 or 1-3 in 2017 or unprotected in 2018 [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012]

2015 second round draft pick to Orlando
L.A. Lakers' 2015 2nd round pick to Orlando protected for selections 31-40 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then the L.A. Lakers' obligation to Orlando will be extinguished) [Denver-L.A. Lakers-Orlando-Philadelphia, 8/10/2012]

2017 first round draft pick to OrlandoIf at least two years after the L.A. Lakers conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix, then the L.A. Lakers' 1st round pick to Orlando protected for selections 1-5 in 2017 or 1-5 in 2018 or unprotected in 2019; if the L.A. Lakers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix by 2017, then the L.A. Lakers will instead convey their 2017 2nd round pick and 2018 2nd round pick to Orlando [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012 and then L.A. Lakers-Orlando, 8/10/2012]

[GlennQuagmire]

Well you're talking about two guys who actually have real "will" to win. When have they ever put individual agendas ahead of team? There's a reason TD was in the finals last year. The other guy will to win is just another thing that's been overly mythafied so he looks like Jordan. , another myth busted. Still a damn great player though and still wanna see him return. League sucks without him and rose.

Kind of hard to say the guy doesn't have the will to win when he has 5 rings.
One more ring then the guy you are comparing him to and like 3-4 more final appearances as well.

The Fakers are by far the richest team in the NBA. Not too sure on how the new CBA works but if there allowed to go over the cap and pay the penalties Im pretty damn sure there pockets are deep enough to afford it.
I know for a fact paying luxury penalties never stopped Jerry Buss from making title teams before.

Well your not understanding the new CBA. Which makes it extremely difficult for teams to pay the tax multiple years in a row. Makes it tough to even add salary to your roster when you get in the luxury tax. The penalties are so tough many say its really a hard cap. The Lakers had deep pockets for 30 million dollar luxury tax bills. 100 million luxury tax bills is on a whole new level.

Except for the Lakers worth is in the billions so yeah 100 million is not that much of "a whole another level"

[xStanton27]

Except for the Lakers worth is in the billions so yeah 100 million is not that much of "a whole another level"

Nobody, not even Prokhorov, goes that much into the tax dude. Get real

[Frosty]

Except for the Lakers worth is in the billions so yeah 100 million is not that much of "a whole another level"

Nobody, not even Prokhorov, goes that much into the tax dude. Get real

And you can't just 'go into the tax'. You can't just sign 3 guys max salries because you are willing to spend. It still needs to fit under the cap. The way you get into the tax is re-signing your players to bigger deals or trading for a guy that wants more money and another team wants to unload him before they need to pay up. If you have no one to re-sign and no one to trade you aren't going there.

[GlennQuagmire]

What a gold mine of a thread. I probably wasted at least three hours reading this, but it was worth it.

Couple things here:

* There has never been a player in the history of the league, to my knowledge, who averaged 20.0 PPG or more in his 19th season or beyond. Do I think Kobe will break that mold? Yes. Is it a risky bet to take for someone coming off of major surgery and who will be 36 years old next year? Perhaps. And no, Kobe does not need to score 20.0+ PPG to earn his new contract, IMO. But as Kobe is probably most known as a scorer, looking at how other scorers have fared late in their careers might be instructive to determine where things could be headed for Kobe as a player.

* This season, Kobe Bryant will become the perimeter player with the most career minutes in NBA history to ever start an NBA season. Kidd has like 2200 or so more career minutes on his resume than does Kobe, but he started out last season slightly behind where Kobe is now in career minutes.

* If someone approached Tim Duncan before the start of last season and asked him this question:

Tim, would you feel ok about having taken a pay cut if the end result is to put you in a position in The Finals where if one of two of your teammates makes a free throw (if the two players, combined, simply go 1-2 on two FTA) then you win both a ring and FMVP?

...my guess is that Duncan would answer "yes, I'm good with that."

* If you examine this thread to this point in time, in its totality, the general tone of who is playing "defense" and who is playing "offense" seems fairly clear IMO. Usually when a person or group of people plays "defense," there is a reason why they are playing defense. Or at least a reason why they feel they need to play defense. I'm not saying that the "playing offense" side of the argument here is in the right, but I think there might be a reason why the "defense" side is playing defense, at least on first glance at the details of this contract extension.

My feelings on this matter -- who is playing "defense" and who is playing "offense" in this thread regarding the issue of the contract extension -- are similar to when I read the supposed Instagram message Kobe wrote to the person who questioned his motives or priorities, a supposed message which was posted earlier in the thread.

This column also has the feeling, to me, of what might be termed "playing defense" or "damage control:"

http://yhoo.it/1cMobq4

Between his signature on a two-year, $48.5 million contract extension and a cross-country flight to the East Coast on Monday, Kobe Bryant was left befuddled and bemused by those who declared him greedy and uncaring about chasing championships.

*
*
*

Finally, if you don't like Kobe Bryant or the "myth" that you might feel that has been built up around Kobe Bryant -- and that view has been ably presented in this thread, IMO -- then I would think that you might view this contract extension as something like a "gift from the gods." Because now everything you may have tried to unsuccessfully convince people of in the past regarding Kobe could have become instantaneously easier to get across to those same people going forward.

So, Kobe wins with the big new deal. Kobe Fans win because Kobe remains with the team and he will be (apparently) the highest paid player in the league for the next two years. Kobe Critics win because now they have apparent ammunition with which they can use to try to blast Kobe as a selfish player who really isn't as concerned with winning as he supposedly was made out to be. Lakers Haters win because they feel, it seems, the team will be irrelevant for the next few years. I win because I get to sit back and waste hours reading threads and articles like this one while doing my Michael Jackson impersonation:



The only group of people who apparently may not win with this extension are the Lakers-Not-Kobe-First Fans who may not think this deal is in the best interests of the team.

For this last group of people, you have my sincere sympathies. This contract extension very nearly seemed to be a win-win-win for everyone involved, except for your number.

And though I feel your pain, I'm still going to kick on back, Michael Jackson-style, and chomp on my popcorn while enjoying the festivities as they play themselves out.

I think your enjoying this way too much. An its not even a for sure thing that the Lakers are gonna completely stink in these upcoming seasons. For one they can still sign another Max contract with a bunch of vet deal fill ins.

Also the lakers are a billion dollar franchise, yes I checked. They are worth in the BILLIONS. Therefore any new CBA tax penalties if they were willing to go in that direction would be paid off with no hesitations. Jerry Buss' inheritance is in the billions. An thats not even considering the billions of dollars the Lakers Brand brings in worldwide.

SO as a Celtic fan first I would recommend you to settle down on your parade you and many others are throwing. The Lakers aren't dead in the water yet. An as history repeats itself I'd be damned these bastards gets a couple more bones thrown there way and all of a sudden there back in the Finals fighting someway somehow.

An I noticed your a Rockets fan. LoL! You do realize Kobe has 3 more championships than your entire franchise?
An also has brought in maybe 3 times as much more money to the NBA than your entire franchise as well.

[CharlieMurphy]

It'll be interesting to see the reaction of people on this thread if the lakers sign a max player this offseason, fill out the rest of the team with decent options and then go on to win the 2014-2015 championship. I can just imagine how much that would piss people off here.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I asked earlier in this thread WHO the lakers can't get because of Kobe's contract, and still no answer. i even posted the 2014 FA list. The reality is that LA wasn't giving out 2 max contracts because.......they aren't 2 players worth it in 2014.

People last week were saying LA should have amnestied Kobe, and that they should tank for Wiggins. Now we have the usual suspects acting like Kobe cost LA a title in the next 2 years. Can someone tell me what players LA brings in the off-season to become a contender if Kobe takes only 15 million??

Seriously, if you can't actually tell me a 2014 plan to turn LA into contenders, then you're just blowing smoke. Lebron WAS the 2014 plan, but then Ray Ray had to hit that shot. So now its about Love in 2015, and other guys like KD & Westbrook. The Lakers have no interest in taking a bunch of mid-level FAs in 2014 because THAT would screw up any chance to get those 3. Locking Kobe up keeps a Top 7 player, and they have young talent developing on that roster.

[Flash4thewin]

I asked earlier in this thread WHO the lakers can't get because of Kobe's contract, and still no answer. i even posted the 2014 FA list. The reality is that LA wasn't giving out 2 max contracts because.......they aren't 2 players worth it in 2014.

People last week were saying LA should have amnestied Kobe, and that they should tank for Wiggins. Now we have the usual suspects acting like Kobe cost LA a title in the next 2 years. Can someone tell me what players LA brings in the off-season to become a contender if Kobe takes only 15 million??

Seriously, if you can't actually tell me a 2014 plan to turn LA into contenders, then you're just blowing smoke. Lebron WAS the 2014 plan, but then Ray Ray had to hit that shot. So now its about Love in 2015, and other guys like KD & Westbrook. The Lakers have no interest in taking a bunch of mid-level FAs in 2014 because THAT would screw up any chance to get those 3. Locking Kobe up keeps a Top 7 player, and they have young talent developing on that roster.

If Lebron was the plan the inability to keep Dwight was the dagger in the Lakers plan not Ray hitting a shot he normally hits.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I asked earlier in this thread WHO the lakers can't get because of Kobe's contract, and still no answer. i even posted the 2014 FA list. The reality is that LA wasn't giving out 2 max contracts because.......they aren't 2 players worth it in 2014.

People last week were saying LA should have amnestied Kobe, and that they should tank for Wiggins. Now we have the usual suspects acting like Kobe cost LA a title in the next 2 years. Can someone tell me what players LA brings in the off-season to become a contender if Kobe takes only 15 million??

Seriously, if you can't actually tell me a 2014 plan to turn LA into contenders, then you're just blowing smoke. Lebron WAS the 2014 plan, but then Ray Ray had to hit that shot. So now its about Love in 2015, and other guys like KD & Westbrook. The Lakers have no interest in taking a bunch of mid-level FAs in 2014 because THAT would screw up any chance to get those 3. Locking Kobe up keeps a Top 7 player, and they have young talent developing on that roster.

If Lebron was the plan the inability to keep Dwight was the dagger in the Lakers plan not Ray hitting a shot he normally hits.

True to an extent. I think if Miami fizzles last year, Lebron would have been gone from Miami regardless because of Wade's health.

I personally wanted them to move Dwight at mid-season last year.

[Flash4thewin]

I asked earlier in this thread WHO the lakers can't get because of Kobe's contract, and still no answer. i even posted the 2014 FA list. The reality is that LA wasn't giving out 2 max contracts because.......they aren't 2 players worth it in 2014.

People last week were saying LA should have amnestied Kobe, and that they should tank for Wiggins. Now we have the usual suspects acting like Kobe cost LA a title in the next 2 years. Can someone tell me what players LA brings in the off-season to become a contender if Kobe takes only 15 million??

Seriously, if you can't actually tell me a 2014 plan to turn LA into contenders, then you're just blowing smoke. Lebron WAS the 2014 plan, but then Ray Ray had to hit that shot. So now its about Love in 2015, and other guys like KD & Westbrook. The Lakers have no interest in taking a bunch of mid-level FAs in 2014 because THAT would screw up any chance to get those 3. Locking Kobe up keeps a Top 7 player, and they have young talent developing on that roster.

If Lebron was the plan the inability to keep Dwight was the dagger in the Lakers plan not Ray hitting a shot he normally hits.

True to an extent. I think if Miami fizzles last year, Lebron would have been gone from Miami regardless because of Wade's health.

I personally wanted them to move Dwight at mid-season last year.

Wade has been hurt at the wrong times but say they dont win last year but win this year, really think Lebron would leave not to mention the team is ready to reload with since the contracts all expire at the end of this season? The key to any Lebron plan was Dwight, a healthy Dwight. Once Dwight left that plan died. Depending on Kobe health i can see this team making it to the playoffs this year

[MisterWestside]

Locking Kobe up keeps a Top 7 player...

Nope.

[DreamShakeFTW]

:lol:

This thread really delivered, man. And it's not even finished yet!

All the heavy hitters (or many of them, anyways) came out, positions were taken, joy was had. I'm lovin' it!

Laker fans were right. The Lakers had cap space for 2 max players.

They just added the first max player (Kobe)...

Just wait til they add the 2nd max player...



Gasol.