ImageImageImageImageImage

2012 NBA Draft

Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico

User avatar
MF23
Veteran
Posts: 2,695
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 09, 2002
Location: where rebellion's taught, and emotions seldom walk

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#581 » by MF23 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:19 pm

Nivek wrote:I agree with nate. Every advantage you get with a dominant post scorer, you get with a dynamic penetrating player. On dribble penetration, the defense still has to rotate, shooters still get open on the perimeter or in the paint. And not worrying about a dominating post scorer also expands opportunities for a team personnel-wise because the supply of highly-skilled bigs is pretty small.


I understand what you're saying but you don't need a big in order to have a dominant post player. I consider Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce and Kobe as dominant with their backs to the basket. Post play doesn't have a narrow definition designated to post play on the lower block. Dirk has an effective post game 20ft away from the basket. Even with penetrators at some point you can sag off of them and with proper rotations defenses can eliminate drives off of P&R. I can't think of one team that has won it all without some type of effective post play.
Et tu Bilas.
MD
Zonkerbl
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,126
And1: 4,785
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
       

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#582 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:24 pm

Perimeter players distort the defense from side to side and outside in. Post players distort the defense from the inside. It's not quite the same thing, although maybe the benefit to the offense is the same, depending on your personnel. Mostly I would prefer Sullinger because he's a big beefy guy and would be a good complement to McGee. Don't know how beefy Robinson is.
I've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless.
User avatar
tontoz
RealGM
Posts: 20,800
And1: 5,330
Joined: Apr 11, 2005

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#583 » by tontoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:24 pm

Last year Dirk scored less than half as many inside points as Blatche. He is a jump shooter. 87% of his attempts are jump shots.

For comparison 90% of Nick Young's shots were jumpers last year.
"bulky agile perimeter bone crunch pick setting draymond green" WizD
User avatar
pancakes3
General Manager
Posts: 9,593
And1: 3,023
Joined: Jul 27, 2003
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#584 » by pancakes3 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:48 pm

sounds like both sides of the argument is saying the same thing: we don't need mike scott.
Bullets -> Wizards
User avatar
BruceO
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,922
And1: 311
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Location: feeling monumental
   

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#585 » by BruceO » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:03 pm

I think regardless of the numbers shown about dirks shooting we all know that step back J with his back to the basket killed off many people. Also last few winning pf's to win a chip are dirk, gasol, rasheed, duncan, KG. All have the size to defend pf and c's and have played both positions, other than dirk who just won his chip all are good defensively. Dirk was helped by chandler and haywood. Most are great passers, shot blockers. Anyone with exceptions to this rule other than haslem helped by shaq failed
User avatar
BruceO
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,922
And1: 311
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Location: feeling monumental
   

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#586 » by BruceO » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:15 pm

To add. Its alot to ask. Scoring, rebounding, defending the rarest components of big man passing and blocks shots ability. Its why with boozer chicago wont go anywhere lest noah and asik help. Bosh wont help miami and with griffin clippers are potentially going nowhere but he shows flashes of being it. IMO sg and pf are the most important positions. Chris paul will attract others thats all. This clipper team isnt better than the other NO teams. Cousins also shows flashes of being it. As well as davis
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 54,976
And1: 10,536
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#587 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:52 pm

Speaking of Cousins, I would rather have him than Sullinger or Robinson from this draft, mental health notwithstanding. Cousins is an even better rebounder than Robinson and he's a far better passer than Sullinger or Robinson.

I am not sure either Sullinger or Robinson will play much C, either.
The Wizards shoukd have drafted Derik Queen

I told you so :banghead:
Severn Hoos
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,443
And1: 223
Joined: May 09, 2002

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#588 » by Severn Hoos » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:54 pm

pancakes3 wrote:sounds like both sides of the argument is saying the same thing: we don't need mike scott.


Aww, cakes, why you gotta do that?



Maybe Michael Scott instead? might make a good coach, he's great at teambuilding.
"A society that puts equality - in the sense of equality of outcome - ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom. The use of force to achieve equality will destroy freedom" Milton Friedman, Free to Choose
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,210
And1: 8,018
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#589 » by Dat2U » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:27 pm

I know where PJ II ranks in terms of the Robinson/Sullinger debate among most on here, but what about Henson? On the same level or a notch below?
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#590 » by fishercob » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:31 pm

I would have Henson above PJIII because I can see him being great at his job -- rebounding, blocking shots, and making open jumpers. Similar to Marcus Camby. He nees to mature physically though, obviously. I don't think he can create much offense for himself and won;t create any for others. In the short term, he'd help very little here unless he was dominating on the defensive glass out of the gate, and I'm skeptical.

Edit: I don't understand the way DX organizes their rebound stats and how these compare to BR's rebound rate stats. Anyone?
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
The Consiglieri
Veteran
Posts: 2,888
And1: 1,062
Joined: May 09, 2007

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#591 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:52 pm

I'm in the simplification area. I don't care what the needs are, i simply want the best player on the board. As we are constructed now, we simply need talent, badly. We can always package and trade duplication of talent, and as many have alluded to already, this team could be blown up right now, and only 1 or 2 players would make most of anyone's list as "must keep".

So draft the best guy possible on the board in terms of ceiling, and talent, and make BBIQ a part of that evaluation system (especially since we've already seen what happens with a team with no BBIQ but plenty of athleticism).
User avatar
sfam
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,462
And1: 548
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
         

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#592 » by sfam » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:41 am

Dirk clearly has a great post game. The reason you need this is when everything gets tight and the outside shots aren't falling. This is really where Sullinger will shine. Once he buries two in a row, the defense will collapse on him, and he'll have the opportunity to pass out of the double team. If he does that well in the pros, he gets easy open shots for folks in late game situations.
jivelikenice
Analyst
Posts: 3,074
And1: 145
Joined: Jul 15, 2005

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#593 » by jivelikenice » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:58 am

I want nothign to do with Davis. Admittedly I've seen little of him but I want a more polished player who can quickly adapt to the NBA. I can't take watching another skilled 6'10, thin guy trying to figure out how to play professionally. And I'm praying for only 1 selection....I can't take any more young morons who don't know how to play basketball....
User avatar
BarnabyJones
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,934
And1: 292
Joined: Jan 05, 2012
     

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#594 » by BarnabyJones » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:34 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
I am not sure either Sullinger or Robinson will play much C, either.


Me neither. Both guys go about 6'8. Classic tweeners.
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”― Mark Twain
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 16,354
And1: 7,457
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#595 » by FAH1223 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:51 am

jivelikenice wrote:I want nothign to do with Davis. Admittedly I've seen little of him but I want a more polished player who can quickly adapt to the NBA. I can't take watching another skilled 6'10, thin guy trying to figure out how to play professionally. And I'm praying for only 1 selection....I can't take any more young morons who don't know how to play basketball....


Davis has a high basketball IQ, if he didn't, he wouldn't have been able to adapt to becoming an inside player after having his growth spurt
Image
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 54,976
And1: 10,536
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#596 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:01 am

BarnabyJones wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
I am not sure either Sullinger or Robinson will play much C, either.


Me neither. Both guys go about 6'8. Classic tweeners.


Love you nickname. I used to like that show back in the day BTW. As soon as I saw your screen name I heard the Barnaby Jones theme music in my mind. I haven't heard this in many, many years.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pFregK-Y4[/youtube]

I liked Buddy Ebsen from way back in the day when he played Jed Clampett.

"Well doggies!" :)
The Wizards shoukd have drafted Derik Queen

I told you so :banghead:
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#597 » by Ruzious » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:56 pm

BarnabyJones wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
I am not sure either Sullinger or Robinson will play much C, either.


Me neither. Both guys go about 6'8. Classic tweeners.

That's classic something. They both measured 6'10 with shoes at the Lebron Nike camp with 7'1 wingspans. They're not tweeners by any stretch of the imagination. They're PF's.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
tontoz
RealGM
Posts: 20,800
And1: 5,330
Joined: Apr 11, 2005

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#598 » by tontoz » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:50 pm

sfam wrote:Dirk clearly has a great post game. The reason you need this is when everything gets tight and the outside shots aren't falling.



That is exactly where Dirk takes his shots, from the outside. Blatche scores inside over twice as much as Dirk.

Here is Dirks shot selection for last season:

At rim: 2.4 shots per game
3-9 feet: 1.5
10-15 feet: 3.6
16-23: 6.3
23'+: 2.4

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?nam ... 20Nowitzki
"bulky agile perimeter bone crunch pick setting draymond green" WizD
Mr. Grundle
Sophomore
Posts: 182
And1: 2
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#599 » by Mr. Grundle » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:09 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Speaking of Cousins, I would rather have him than Sullinger or Robinson from this draft, mental health notwithstanding. Cousins is an even better rebounder than Robinson and he's a far better passer than Sullinger or Robinson.

I am not sure either Sullinger or Robinson will play much C, either.


I don't understand the infatuation with Demarcus Cousins. After suffering through what seems like a decade of knuckleheadedness, people still want to bring on the biggest case in the NBA. I know we need talent, but Cousins really isn't even that good. He's one of the most overrated players by this board. Yes he can average a double-double but he has to take a ton of shots to get there. He only shoots 42% from the field. Not impressive for a post player. He's not that skilled. He gets what he gets by being bigger and stronger than opposing players. And I don't want to have to watch him pout when he DOESN'T get his double-double.

Sorry but I'm taking Sullinger all day every day over Cousins. He's a better person AND player.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,210
And1: 8,018
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: 2012 NBA Draft 

Post#600 » by Dat2U » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:40 pm

Ruzious wrote:
BarnabyJones wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
I am not sure either Sullinger or Robinson will play much C, either.


Me neither. Both guys go about 6'8. Classic tweeners.

That's classic something. They both measured 6'10 with shoes at the Lebron Nike camp with 7'1 wingspans. They're not tweeners by any stretch of the imagination. They're PF's.

'
No way in hell Robinson is 6-10. I gotta see the official measurements to believe that one.

Plus I'm far more interested in their standing reach than their wingspan.

Return to Washington Wizards