Shams: Cleveland and Boston have agreement on deal to send Kyrie Irving to the Celtics for Isaiah Thomas package to Cavs

[T-d0t]

Aren't we trying to beat the Cavs? I don't care about beating Boston unless we're also beating the Cavs.

I hope that IT is not 100% this year and we beat both the Cavs and the Celtics.

We are not beating Cavs as long as they have Lebron.. But Boston we can beat them and the thing they have on us is their asset draft picks and young talent ... the more they f that up better for us .

If the deal becomes finalized, I hope IT is not 100%. We have a chance to beat the Cavs if their two best players are LeBron and Love.

Lebron counts as a 5 man lineup

[slothrop8]

Aren't we trying to beat the Cavs? I don't care about beating Boston unless we're also beating the Cavs.

I hope that IT is not 100% this year and we beat both the Cavs and the Celtics.

We are not beating Cavs as long as they have Lebron.. But Boston we can beat them and the thing they have on us is their asset draft picks and young talent ... the more they f that up better for us .

If the deal becomes finalized, I hope IT is not 100%. We have a chance to beat the Cavs if their two best players are LeBron and Love.

I would pretty strongly disagree with that assessment. Don't forget the ECF sweep of the 60 win Hawks by LeBron with Love out and Kyrie playing 40ish minutes the entire series. LeBron and any combination of shooters with a defender or two mixed in is going to be significant favorites over us. If anything, IT playing gives us a better shot because it presents a serious point of weakness in their perimeter defense we can exploit relentlessly in a playoff series. LeBron only needs IT for the regular season so he doesn't have to generate all the offense himself and can stay firmly in chill mode - come a serious playoff series IT is likely to be more of a detriment to them than an actual benefit - LeBron can play big minutes and generate all the offense they need, he just needs someone to help him get a few stops and that's not IT.

[Patman]

We are not beating Cavs as long as they have Lebron.. But Boston we can beat them and the thing they have on us is their asset draft picks and young talent ... the more they f that up better for us .

If the deal becomes finalized, I hope IT is not 100%. We have a chance to beat the Cavs if their two best players are LeBron and Love.

I would pretty strongly disagree with that assessment. Don't forget the ECF sweep of the 60 win Hawks by LeBron with Love out and Kyrie playing 40ish minutes the entire series. LeBron and any combination of shooters with a defender or two mixed in is going to be significant favorites over us. If anything, IT playing gives us a better shot because it presents a serious point of weakness in their perimeter defense we can exploit relentlessly in a playoff series. LeBron only needs IT for the regular season so he doesn't have to generate all the offense himself and can stay firmly in chill mode - come a serious playoff series IT is likely to be more of a detriment to them than an actual benefit - LeBron can play big minutes and generate all the offense they need, he just needs someone to help him get a few stops and that's not IT.

I'm not saying we'd be favoured, but it would be the best chance we'll have to dethrone LeBron.

I'm also hoping that LeBron is in "Eff You" mode this regular season and goes all out to win the MVP.

[Rapcity_11]

We are not beating Cavs as long as they have Lebron.. But Boston we can beat them and the thing they have on us is their asset draft picks and young talent ... the more they f that up better for us .

If the deal becomes finalized, I hope IT is not 100%. We have a chance to beat the Cavs if their two best players are LeBron and Love.

I would pretty strongly disagree with that assessment. Don't forget the ECF sweep of the 60 win Hawks by LeBron with Love out and Kyrie playing 40ish minutes the entire series. LeBron and any combination of shooters with a defender or two mixed in is going to be significant favorites over us. If anything, IT playing gives us a better shot because it presents a serious point of weakness in their perimeter defense we can exploit relentlessly in a playoff series. LeBron only needs IT for the regular season so he doesn't have to generate all the offense himself and can stay firmly in chill mode - come a serious playoff series IT is likely to be more of a detriment to them than an actual benefit - LeBron can play big minutes and generate all the offense they need, he just needs someone to help him get a few stops and that's not IT.

I agree that the Raptors have no chance against LeBron, period. But I think you’re off the mark about what LeBron needs as a cast. With the Cavs current cast (everyone minus IT), LeBron absolutely requires another high usage playmaker (either scorer or passer or both). He needs those handful of possessions a half where he just chills and lets the PG create. I mean, would you trade IT for Beverley?

We also see over and over again how big the even 3 minutes that LeBron doesn’t play are. I think you’re downplaying that too much.

[slothrop8]

If the deal becomes finalized, I hope IT is not 100%. We have a chance to beat the Cavs if their two best players are LeBron and Love.

I would pretty strongly disagree with that assessment. Don't forget the ECF sweep of the 60 win Hawks by LeBron with Love out and Kyrie playing 40ish minutes the entire series. LeBron and any combination of shooters with a defender or two mixed in is going to be significant favorites over us. If anything, IT playing gives us a better shot because it presents a serious point of weakness in their perimeter defense we can exploit relentlessly in a playoff series. LeBron only needs IT for the regular season so he doesn't have to generate all the offense himself and can stay firmly in chill mode - come a serious playoff series IT is likely to be more of a detriment to them than an actual benefit - LeBron can play big minutes and generate all the offense they need, he just needs someone to help him get a few stops and that's not IT.

I agree that the Raptors have no chance against LeBron, period. But I think you’re off the mark about what LeBron needs as a cast. With the Cavs current cast (everyone minus IT), LeBron absolutely requires another high usage playmaker (either scorer or passer or both). He needs those handful of possessions a half where he just chills and lets the PG create. I mean, would you trade IT for Beverley?

We also see over and over again how big the even 3 minutes that LeBron doesn’t play are. I think you’re downplaying that too much.

For the regular season, I agree - he needs someone to soak up some usage. In a playoff series a defender as abysmal as IT is of no real use to him. Derrick Rose can initiate offense - poorly mind you - but well enough to float the few non-LeBron minutes there will be if he has to go into Finals mode early to escape the Eastern playoffs this year. For the playoffs I would trade IT for Patrick Beverly - no question. I don't think IT can be on the floor in a playoff series against a really good team at the end of a playoff game - it's just too easy to exploit him repeatedly.

[Rapcity_11]

I would pretty strongly disagree with that assessment. Don't forget the ECF sweep of the 60 win Hawks by LeBron with Love out and Kyrie playing 40ish minutes the entire series. LeBron and any combination of shooters with a defender or two mixed in is going to be significant favorites over us. If anything, IT playing gives us a better shot because it presents a serious point of weakness in their perimeter defense we can exploit relentlessly in a playoff series. LeBron only needs IT for the regular season so he doesn't have to generate all the offense himself and can stay firmly in chill mode - come a serious playoff series IT is likely to be more of a detriment to them than an actual benefit - LeBron can play big minutes and generate all the offense they need, he just needs someone to help him get a few stops and that's not IT.

I agree that the Raptors have no chance against LeBron, period. But I think you’re off the mark about what LeBron needs as a cast. With the Cavs current cast (everyone minus IT), LeBron absolutely requires another high usage playmaker (either scorer or passer or both). He needs those handful of possessions a half where he just chills and lets the PG create. I mean, would you trade IT for Beverley?

We also see over and over again how big the even 3 minutes that LeBron doesn’t play are. I think you’re downplaying that too much.

For the regular season, I agree - he needs someone to soak up some usage. In a playoff series a defender as abysmal as IT is of no real use to him. Derrick Rose can initiate offense - poorly mind you - but well enough to float the few non-LeBron minutes there will be if he has to go into Finals mode early to escape the Eastern playoffs this year. For the playoffs I would trade IT for Patrick Beverly - no question. I don't think IT can be on the floor in a playoff series against a really good team at the end of a playoff game - it's just too easy to exploit him repeatedly.

I’m talking the finals (all that matters for Cleveland).

Rose absolutely can’t float those minutes. Even Kyrie couldn’t do it.

I disagree. You need more than one dynamic offensive player against the Warriors defense.

Also, the Cavs have become pretty damn good at switching to keep Kyrie in the corner away from the action. They could do the same with IT.

[slothrop8]

I agree that the Raptors have no chance against LeBron, period. But I think you’re off the mark about what LeBron needs as a cast. With the Cavs current cast (everyone minus IT), LeBron absolutely requires another high usage playmaker (either scorer or passer or both). He needs those handful of possessions a half where he just chills and lets the PG create. I mean, would you trade IT for Beverley?

We also see over and over again how big the even 3 minutes that LeBron doesn’t play are. I think you’re downplaying that too much.

For the regular season, I agree - he needs someone to soak up some usage. In a playoff series a defender as abysmal as IT is of no real use to him. Derrick Rose can initiate offense - poorly mind you - but well enough to float the few non-LeBron minutes there will be if he has to go into Finals mode early to escape the Eastern playoffs this year. For the playoffs I would trade IT for Patrick Beverly - no question. I don't think IT can be on the floor in a playoff series against a really good team at the end of a playoff game - it's just too easy to exploit him repeatedly.

I’m talking the finals (all that matters for Cleveland).

Rose absolutely can’t float those minutes. Even Kyrie couldn’t do it.

I disagree. You need more than one dynamic offensive player against the Warriors defense.

Also, the Cavs have become pretty damn good at switching to keep Kyrie in the corner away from the action. They could do the same with IT.

I was talking about to beat us. The Finals is different because LeBron has to guard someone almost all the time and expend energy defensively - the LeBron total energy used calculation changes dramatically - and their defense is on another plane from ours. For the Finals against this version of GSW, none of Kyrie, IT, or Beverly is going to get it done. But I agree, someone has to share his offensive burden in the Finals, but if they are actually going to have a chance of winning someone that isn't going to be a huge liability on the other end would be preferable. I don't think IT brings much net value to them in the Finals either. But to beat us, I'm prepared to contend we'd have a better shot with IT playing than not.

[OAKLEY_2]

Well purrently Cavs now want Brown or Tatum added. L-O-L. Man this feels like deflategate and I actually had sympathy for the Pats with that laffer.

[Lego Legs]

I can't see the Celtics giving up Brown or Tatum. It's like a game of poker and they've already put too many chips into the pot, and now they could well get cleaned out.

[Psubs]

I can't see the Celtics giving up Brown or Tatum. It's like a game of poker and they've already put too many chips into the pot, and now they could well get cleaned out.

Now one of their cards have been revealed to be a Jack and not a King. Thomas' trade value has fallen, since they would probably move him before the deadline anyways. I think a Celtics 1st round pick is a good in-between compromise.

Hmmm, what about Boston adding Terry Rozier for Kay Felder?

[Patman]

Well purrently Cavs now want Brown or Tatum added. L-O-L. Man this feels like deflategate and I actually had sympathy for the Pats with that laffer.

Pretty sure the Cavs know they're not getting either. It's just a classic negotiating tactic. Ask for the stars, and you might just end up with the moon.

[artsncrafts]

Cavs can back out, but will they get better than top 5 pick in a good draft + injury prone all-star? Keep in mind Irving is injury prone too.

[ontnut]

Well purrently Cavs now want Brown or Tatum added. L-O-L. Man this feels like deflategate and I actually had sympathy for the Pats with that laffer.

Pretty sure the Cavs know they're not getting either. It's just a classic negotiating tactic. Ask for the stars, and you might just end up with the moon.

Oakley, do you have a source on the Cavs' request? I haven't seen any updates on this trade pause so far.

The deal is dead if they are insisting on either player though, I would think.

I don't get it though - I figured the 1st round pick was added in lieu of a physical for IT (this is what I heard from some podcast or something).

[CoachJReturns]

Cavs can back out, but will they get better than top 5 pick in a good draft + injury prone all-star? Keep in mind Irving is injury prone too.

Yep. Boston is overpaying for Kyrie already. A swap of injury prone all-star point guards, a solid glue guy in Crowder AND a top 5 pick in a very strong top 5 draft class supposedly.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Well purrently Cavs now want Brown or Tatum added. L-O-L. Man this feels like deflategate and I actually had sympathy for the Pats with that laffer.

Pretty sure the Cavs know they're not getting either. It's just a classic negotiating tactic. Ask for the stars, and you might just end up with the moon.

Oakley, do you have a source on the Cavs' request? I haven't seen any updates on this trade pause so far.

The deal is dead if they are insisting on either player though, I would think.

I don't get it though - I figured the 1st round pick was added in lieu of a physical for IT (this is what I heard from some podcast or something).

all speculation. all the sources are "saying" Cavs want either Tatum or Brown.

[ontnut]

Pretty sure the Cavs know they're not getting either. It's just a classic negotiating tactic. Ask for the stars, and you might just end up with the moon.

Oakley, do you have a source on the Cavs' request? I haven't seen any updates on this trade pause so far.

The deal is dead if they are insisting on either player though, I would think.

I don't get it though - I figured the 1st round pick was added in lieu of a physical for IT (this is what I heard from some podcast or something).

all speculation. all the sources are "saying" Cavs want either Tatum or Brown.

I want a lot of things too. Like for Taylor Swift's new song not to suck so bad.

[Kurtz]

Cavs can back out, but will they get better than top 5 pick in a good draft + injury prone all-star? Keep in mind Irving is injury prone too.

It doesn't seem that the issue is that IT is simply injury prone, but rather that he might miss the entire season.

Ainge sold him as maybe missing a month...but he can't even jog yet. If he doesn't get better soon, he might opt for a surgery which will take him out for 6-9 months.

So suddenly that trade goes from a swap of two all-stars + futures for the Cavs to just the futures+ taking on a salary dump for Irving. In that context, the other rumoured trade on the table for them (Middleton+Brogdon+picks) may be suddenly looking better.

[OAKLEY_2]

Well purrently Cavs now want Brown or Tatum added. L-O-L. Man this feels like deflategate and I actually had sympathy for the Pats with that laffer.

Pretty sure the Cavs know they're not getting either. It's just a classic negotiating tactic. Ask for the stars, and you might just end up with the moon.

Oakley, do you have a source on the Cavs' request? I haven't seen any updates on this trade pause so far.

The deal is dead if they are insisting on either player though, I would think.

I don't get it though - I figured the 1st round pick was added in lieu of a physical for IT (this is what I heard from some podcast or something).

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/28/cavaliers-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-trade/

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Oakley, do you have a source on the Cavs' request? I haven't seen any updates on this trade pause so far.

The deal is dead if they are insisting on either player though, I would think.

I don't get it though - I figured the 1st round pick was added in lieu of a physical for IT (this is what I heard from some podcast or something).

all speculation. all the sources are "saying" Cavs want either Tatum or Brown.

I want a lot of things too. Like for Taylor Swift's new song not to suck so bad.

haha. i hope they get more from Boston. takes more assets away from Boston, which in turn helps the Raptors as Boston loses its depth and a bit of its future.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

" Even if Thomas is at 50% he is still capable. The real value will come in the pick, crowder, and prospects."

You're no longer getting a Michael Jordan level statisticly offensive player though if he's 50%. Getting a Michael Jordan level of production or an injured guy not capable of putting up that production...the difference is pretty large even if he is only under contract for 1 season. They might've wanted to resign the guy as well, then he's potentially damaged goods over the next length of his contract.