Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[pepe1991]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

Every time I look at Doncic's stats my heart breaks a little.

Where are those guys from our board who called him a biggest bust in history?Im pretty sure we had some of those type as I recall fighting them here last spring.

Insert any type of white bball player stereotype here *

[fklt]

the guy would be an all star in the east with those stats. we should give credit to weltman though, because sitting on your hands for 2 years is what makes a true GM.

[rcklsscognition]

Well aware that the Orlando Magic are still a work in progress, head coach Steve Clifford figured that his approach this season would need to be fluid as he analyzed and adjusted on an almost daily basis.

He’s proven to be right on that theory as the 2-4 Magic have alternately struggled on offense and defense while playing one of the NBA’s toughest schedules thus far. Already, Orlando has taken on playoff teams from Miami, Philadelphia, Boston, Portland and Milwaukee and their two victories came against the Heat and Celtics. However, the Magic were unable to build any momentum off those impressive performances because of alternating offensive and defensive issues in ugly losses to the Charlotte Hornets, Trail Blazers and Bucks.

NBA.com LINK

One formula that Clifford has given to his team as a goal that should produce success is this: If Orlando can be a top-10 defense and have an opportunistic offense that consistently knocks down shots, it can give itself a shot of being in games on a nightly basis. Clearly, the Magic still have plenty of improvements to make to be solid in both of those phases.

Cliff, let me save you a year of "observation", that's not going to happen.

[Optimus_Steel]

the guy would be an all star in the east with those stats. we should give credit to weltman though, because sitting on your hands for 2 years is what makes a true GM.

Doing nothing is the easiest thing to do. I will not give them too much credit for doing the easy thing.

[Optimus_Steel]

Well aware that the Orlando Magic are still a work in progress, head coach Steve Clifford figured that his approach this season would need to be fluid as he analyzed and adjusted on an almost daily basis.

He’s proven to be right on that theory as the 2-4 Magic have alternately struggled on offense and defense while playing one of the NBA’s toughest schedules thus far. Already, Orlando has taken on playoff teams from Miami, Philadelphia, Boston, Portland and Milwaukee and their two victories came against the Heat and Celtics. However, the Magic were unable to build any momentum off those impressive performances because of alternating offensive and defensive issues in ugly losses to the Charlotte Hornets, Trail Blazers and Bucks.

NBA.com LINK

One formula that Clifford has given to his team as a goal that should produce success is this: If Orlando can be a top-10 defense and have an opportunistic offense that consistently knocks down shots, it can give itself a shot of being in games on a nightly basis. Clearly, the Magic still have plenty of improvements to make to be solid in both of those phases.

Cliff, let me save you a year of "observation", that's not going to happen.

Yea they might be able to do it for a short stretch of games but its not going to happen. This group has proven they are incapable of doing that for a whole season, let alone months. For that to happen this would need to be a team with tremendous chemistry and fight, and heart and this team has neither of that. This is low talent team where the sum of parts are lesser than the separate parts. Low talent + terrible chemistry = the last 7 years of atrocious basketball. At least when Philly was bad they played hard most of the time and they played together. No one will ever say that about this team.

[swarlesbarkley]

Well aware that the Orlando Magic are still a work in progress, head coach Steve Clifford figured that his approach this season would need to be fluid as he analyzed and adjusted on an almost daily basis.

He’s proven to be right on that theory as the 2-4 Magic have alternately struggled on offense and defense while playing one of the NBA’s toughest schedules thus far. Already, Orlando has taken on playoff teams from Miami, Philadelphia, Boston, Portland and Milwaukee and their two victories came against the Heat and Celtics. However, the Magic were unable to build any momentum off those impressive performances because of alternating offensive and defensive issues in ugly losses to the Charlotte Hornets, Trail Blazers and Bucks.

NBA.com LINK

One formula that Clifford has given to his team as a goal that should produce success is this: If Orlando can be a top-10 defense and have an opportunistic offense that consistently knocks down shots, it can give itself a shot of being in games on a nightly basis. Clearly, the Magic still have plenty of improvements to make to be solid in both of those phases.

Cliff, let me save you a year of "observation", that's not going to happen.

Yeah, if our head coach doesn't know he needs to scheme guys to get easy shots and not hope that they knock down open jumpers we're going to be in big trouble his whole tenure unless we get a miracle trade/free agent/draft.

[PennytoShaq]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

This is the board in a nutshell. Complain about the FO any time dsj has a good night - utter silence when he does not. Let's not forget that he is shooting a whopping 28% from 3 and also missed a game due to an ankle, something that caused incredible panic for you when JI sat in preseason.

Lonzo ball constantly gets bashed here by people who say he can't shoot, yet he's 36% from 3.

Trae Young was said by some to be a bust after his first game yet he already averages more PPG and shoots better from 3 than dsj.


It's going to be a tough year for many of you to deal with if this is the roller coaster ride you choose to go on. One night you praise JI, the next you complain we drafted him.

Some of you choose to be negative because "it's been 6 years of this, can you blame us?". Yes, i can. It's a new regime who in their mind is starting from scratch and taking the players they want.

Anyway same thing every day from the same negative people. Must suck to have that mindset. Can't say I can relate.

[dsg2021]

I think WeHam is doing it the right way, and that might even mean tanking it out this year because it seems we’ll draft our first ever offensive piece in 8 years, as the top 7 or so of the draft seem to be offensively oriented wings with length. And I love knowing that AG has the footspeed for defending 2’s and JI the footspeed for defending 3’s, because that makes for an all the more versatile and tall lineup for whoever is our first offensively talented piece (hopefully a passing and sweet shooting wing, with PG ability).

DSJr I’m not sweating about. He might probably be better than past PG prospects we liked like Trey and Exum (that we passed on), but he’s still short and never going to be a defensive threat, and he’s no deadeye shooter for what’s supposed to be his main weapon.

Doncic on the other hand, I fully understand. But you have to likewise understand that he was picked BEFORE us. Regardless, I do feel the same pain and anger we all have. If WeHam was better, if they really got in the head of the ORL fanbase and team performance in the last 7-8 years, they would have known it was time to acquire our first real offensive piece with staying power, Doncic. And to trade up and get him, to get it done. Because I kind of think they could have done so without a crazy cost either. The fact DAL traded up for him in a shorter rebuild drives me crazy.

The biggest two things about this rebuild are something people forget about sometimes tho, it’s that you need to make a champion level team, and that there’s a GSW dynasty in progress. Even if GSW loses two stars like say DeMarcus and Durant, they’re still strong favorites for more titles these years. And I don’t think they will even lose more than just 1 star, probably DeMarcus. I think GSW is going to prefer making more history than worrying about luxury taxes. And with these two things in mind, how can you blame WeHam for getting two projects in Mo and JI. Our contending window shouldn’t be starting within the next 1-2 years, at the least, and it should also be open for a long time. Who better fits that than the two project giants who naturally defend and cause many problems on both sides of the floor.

[fklt]

regime is not that new.

[Blue_and_Whte]

NBA.com LINK

Cliff, let me save you a year of "observation", that's not going to happen.

Yea they might be able to do it for a short stretch of games but its not going to happen. This group has proven they are incapable of doing that for a whole season, let alone months. For that to happen this would need to be a team with tremendous chemistry and fight, and heart and this team has neither of that. This is low talent team where the sum of parts are lesser than the separate parts. Low talent + terrible chemistry = the last 7 years of atrocious basketball. At least when Philly was bad they played hard most of the time and they played together. No one will ever say that about this team.

For that to happen you would need an elite scorer. The only problem with this team is that we're built with the guys you put around a star player.

[yoyojw17]

Good article from OPP

also one of fans added this gem
"Among 223 players who have played 100 minutes or more this season, the Magic have two players in the bottom 10 in terms of PER – Jerian Grant (216th) and Jonathon Simmons (218th). The only other team with two players in the bottom 10 is the Oklahoma City Thunder, who is also the only team with a lower offensive rating than Orlando

The silver lining is that Orlando has a player offsetting those two with a top 10 PER – Nikola Vucevic, who is currently ranked 6th among qualified players"

article here ( damn i forgot to post url )
https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/10/29/18038288/orlando-magic-stats

Yet his trade value is poop.

Fool's Gold. Vuc's box scores have been great his entire career. That's never been the problem.

His trade value is poop because he is C in era where Cs need to defend pick&roll better. Never been his forte.

Pretty sure whole Magic roster trade value is poop. Gordon was FA and not a single team sent him offer sheet.

has he just not been traded... or is his value just that bad. Has anyone posted articles or convos about it... just wandering.

I don't think he's fools gold at all. just not a premier player that can shoulder a team. And don't forget... he was only in his 2nd year when he came to us. and to be honest with you... he has done his best. Yes ... to no avail... but has done his best. Now... he's putting up video game numbers and has been spectacular. I don't think his value is super high... but i can't parrot the "poop" comments either. On a quality team where he's not the focus on offense... I can only imagine what he could/would do.#startingcenteronthewarriorsnextseason lol

Sadly our team has too many developmental pieces that slows and stagnates the development of the team as a whole... which inevitably leads to forced decisions and 15 coaches. haha

[ZeusIsLoose]

Yet his trade value is poop.

Fool's Gold. Vuc's box scores have been great his entire career. That's never been the problem.

His trade value is poop because he is C in era where Cs need to defend pick&roll better. Never been his forte.

Pretty sure whole Magic roster trade value is poop. Gordon was FA and not a single team sent him offer sheet.

has he just not been traded... or is his value just that bad. Has anyone posted articles or convos about it... just wandering.

I don't think he's fools gold at all. just not a premier player that can shoulder a team. And don't forget... he was only in his 2nd year when he came to us. and to be honest with you... he has done his best. Yes ... to no avail... but has done his best. Now... he's putting up video game numbers and has been spectacular. I don't think his value is super high... but i can't parrot the "poop" comments either. On a quality team where he's not the focus on offense... I can only imagine what he could/would do.#startingcenteronthewarriorsnextseason lol

Sadly our team has too many developmental pieces that slows and stagnates the development of the team as a whole... which inevitably leads to forced decisions and 15 coaches. haha

Vooch has value. Lakers may get desperate soon so lets see what they can offer

[thelead]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

This is the board in a nutshell. Complain about the FO any time dsj has a good night - utter silence when he does not. Let's not forget that he is shooting a whopping 28% from 3 and also missed a game due to an ankle, something that caused incredible panic for you when JI sat in preseason.

Lonzo ball constantly gets bashed here by people who say he can't shoot, yet he's 36% from 3.

Trae Young was said by some to be a bust after his first game yet he already averages more PPG and shoots better from 3 than dsj.


It's going to be a tough year for many of you to deal with if this is the roller coaster ride you choose to go on. One night you praise JI, the next you complain we drafted him.

Some of you choose to be negative because "it's been 6 years of this, can you blame us?". Yes, i can. It's a new regime who in their mind is starting from scratch and taking the players they want.

Anyway same thing every day from the same negative people. Must suck to have that mindset. Can't say I can relate.

What is JI doing for us now though?

This franchise is a joke.


In a huge, lottery ball deciding game, theses are the players the Mavs played:

Started:
Aaron Harrison
Kyle Collinsworth
Dorian Finney-Smith
Johnathan Motley
Dwight Powell

Bench:
Jalen Jones (34 minutes!!!)
Maxi Kleber (WHO???)
Yogi Ferrell (only 7 minutes)

We tried to tank our last game too but no where near with the same dedication as we started:

Mario
Iwundu
Vuc
AG
DJ

So, here we are with Mo (who I love with at 6th pick) but we should have ended up at 5 with a shot at Young... because, lets be honest, we wouldn't have the guts to make a trade like the Mavs did for Doncic.

[pepe1991]

Both Young and Lonzo are medicore.

I don't know how can somebody even argue that.

Lonzo shoots 57% FTs as starting PG, 36% for 3 ? Sure, on 13 threes made, going 4-14 for 3 in last 3 games (basically had one good game that holds his percentages for now ) . His APG, RPG and defense are all down.

Young is jumpshooting guard that really isn't good at making shots. He shoots 30% for 3 right now and 39% overall.
He is new Monta Elise, guy who sucks at shooting 3s but that will never stop him from taking them.

But that does not change fact that Isaac has zero star potential ( traditional ,25 ppg star ) and that he still is player that can't dribble ball ,attack off dribble or do anything but hit some spot ups and 1 dribble mid range shots. Good individual defender, but that's not what you expect from 6# pick. You don't tank year to draft worst version of Kiriljenko without passing skills.

[yoyojw17]

His trade value is poop because he is C in era where Cs need to defend pick&roll better. Never been his forte.

Pretty sure whole Magic roster trade value is poop. Gordon was FA and not a single team sent him offer sheet.

has he just not been traded... or is his value just that bad. Has anyone posted articles or convos about it... just wandering.

I don't think he's fools gold at all. just not a premier player that can shoulder a team. And don't forget... he was only in his 2nd year when he came to us. and to be honest with you... he has done his best. Yes ... to no avail... but has done his best. Now... he's putting up video game numbers and has been spectacular. I don't think his value is super high... but i can't parrot the "poop" comments either. On a quality team where he's not the focus on offense... I can only imagine what he could/would do.#startingcenteronthewarriorsnextseason lol

Sadly our team has too many developmental pieces that slows and stagnates the development of the team as a whole... which inevitably leads to forced decisions and 15 coaches. haha

Vooch has value. Lakers may get desperate soon so lets see what they can offer

FUNNY THING.... they were the first team I thought of! Vooch will get traded there and be 20-10-4-1-1 and this board will explode for trading away such an asset!

[VFX]

Meanwhile, DSj and Doncic racked up a combined 78 minutes and 53 points on better than 50% shooting tonight. I see reasons to have faith in our front office though /s

And they’re younger than Mo and JI... but let’s keep running the offense through proven losers because reasons. And if your argument is going to be that our young guys aren’t ready than you can’t also defend this FO when you consider younger rookies/sophomores are already producing.

This is the board in a nutshell. Complain about the FO any time dsj has a good night - utter silence when he does not. Let's not forget that he is shooting a whopping 28% from 3 and also missed a game due to an ankle, something that caused incredible panic for you when JI sat in preseason.

Lonzo ball constantly gets bashed here by people who say he can't shoot, yet he's 36% from 3.

Trae Young was said by some to be a bust after his first game yet he already averages more PPG and shoots better from 3 than dsj.


It's going to be a tough year for many of you to deal with if this is the roller coaster ride you choose to go on. One night you praise JI, the next you complain we drafted him.

Some of you choose to be negative because "it's been 6 years of this, can you blame us?". Yes, i can. It's a new regime who in their mind is starting from scratch and taking the players they want.

Anyway same thing every day from the same negative people. Must suck to have that mindset. Can't say I can relate.

Here’s the thing. There isn’t one player out of the names you’ve mentioned that are going to be surprising us this season outside of Doncic (who most of us knew would be just as good as advertised). People that are fans of this franchise want to draft the next star to pull other players to Orlando.

JI and Bamba don’t necessarily scream 25ppg players right now, but who knows maybe they will hit that level. Personally, I’ll give JI this season to figure it out before I can pass judgement on his ceiling because it’s rare for players to have the Oladipo effect. Players usually show what they will become in the first few years. This is why this year will be rollercoaster of emotions from this fan base. He’s going to have to justify being a #6 pick to a fan base that lacks a player to get behind offensively for the future. Nobody drafts for a defensive skill set anymore and Orlando did it two years in a row with lacking options offensively.

In reality, I don’t care what DSJ, Ball, or Young do with their respective franchises because they are all in entirely different situations than being in Orlando. What I do care about is giving playing time to these young guys in situations that actually matter and the FO drafting playmakers and difference makers on the court.

The FO hasn’t done any of that in their tenure here or instilled any confidence that they will. Their game plan is to wait for contracts to expire and offer a free agent an overpriced contract in hope of them accepting. (Why would they if it wasn’t t a massive overpay). Otherwise they would have already traded what little value this roster currently has. I don’t know what anyone has to be excited about or look at this FO as a group that is doing everything they can to change the trajectory this franchise has been on.

[Leopold Stoich]

the guy would be an all star in the east with those stats. we should give credit to weltman though, because sitting on your hands for 2 years is what makes a true GM.

Doing nothing is the easiest thing to do. I will not give them too much credit for doing the easy thing.

Yes, he could've been aggressive in some scenarios but he didn't break the bank or sell too much for anything. GM's whos hands are forced usually means they are losing control of their jobs. Look what happened to Pheonix's GM. The front office appears to have faith in WeHam and we have to sit back and trust them as well even if it's tough as all hell.

[rcklsscognition]

Read on Twitter

Don't worry, the Kings are on a B2B and we've had 3 days of rest. There's no way they're going to outrun us at home.

[OrlandO]

Read on Twitter

Don't worry, the Kings are on a B2B and we've had 3 days of rest. There's no way they're going to outrun us at home.

We were 1-8 on 3 or more days rest during the Vogel era. Time for Cliff to show his worth... if he can't motivate them better than Vogel it's going to be a long season for him.

[thelead]

Read on Twitter

Don't worry, the Kings are on a B2B and we've had 3 days of rest. There's no way they're going to outrun us at home.

We were 1-8 on 3 or more days rest during the Vogel era. Time for Cliff to show his worth... if he can't motivate them better than Vogel it's going to be a long season for him.

I agree sort of. If we can’t beat the Kings with this much time to prepare, it says more about the players (talent/focus) than the coach considering we’ve had other coaches that couldn’t turn this around.