Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[WindyCityBorn]

That would make sense if AKs goal wasn't to try and win with said players.

I highly doubt they are looking for a rebuild. They are looking to dump Zach so they can reup DeMar.

In the sense of short term team building with DeMar and Vuc, this trade makes little sense and in the sense of long term team building, not getting back any picks for easily your best asset and only getting back a very flawed player makes little sense. But AK is great at making moves that make very little sense.

This kind of reminds me of the Butler trade in a really small way. I never bought that Minnesota would walk away over the inclusion of the pick and I definitely don't believe that OKC was unwilling to part with any of there 37 picks. Just dumb.

Additonally, the trade doesn't even help them on the cap sheet right now, and next off- season Giddey has a bigger cap hold and you have to decide to extend him long term. So potentially, you got back zero longterm value for Caruso if they don't extend Giddey.

Would rather pay a 22 year old starter than a 31 year old backup. Makes sense for our impending rebuild.

[samwana]

You're right. Anyway after listening to several podcast takes on the trade. I think this trade starts growing on me. Giddey may not be be the best return, but he's far from the worst. I mean we're talking about trading a 30-year old expiring contract for a 21 year-old former lottery pick who actually pans out (compared to our very own PWill). I, at least, think we shouldn't be arguing on whether we get ourselves a good talent, which Giddey is. If we're going to argue on why there's no pick attached, go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

Now, I'm feeling more certain that AK is going to extend DeMar. I think AK sees Giddey as somebody who can play next to DeMar judging from how he play next to another mid-range player in SGA. And Giddey is a better fit next to DeMar than Zach.

The next guy gone will be Zach. Giddey trade sealed his fate with this team for good. And I also feel extending Pat is no longer certain. Let's see what happen next. I feel that Paul George rumor could be a possibility. I don't know whether I like that or not, but just saying.

What Paul George rumor?

Read on Twitter

Paul George is the last guy we need on this team. I don't believe after this trade that we do a trade for a player that far into his career

[jnrjr79]

You're right. Anyway after listening to several podcast takes on the trade. I think this trade starts growing on me. Giddey may not be be the best return, but he's far from the worst. I mean we're talking about trading a 30-year old expiring contract for a 21 year-old former lottery pick who actually pans out (compared to our very own PWill). I, at least, think we shouldn't be arguing on whether we get ourselves a good talent, which Giddey is. If we're going to argue on why there's no pick attached, go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

Now, I'm feeling more certain that AK is going to extend DeMar. I think AK sees Giddey as somebody who can play next to DeMar judging from how he play next to another mid-range player in SGA. And Giddey is a better fit next to DeMar than Zach.

The next guy gone will be Zach. Giddey trade sealed his fate with this team for good. And I also feel extending Pat is no longer certain. Let's see what happen next. I feel that Paul George rumor could be a possibility. I don't know whether I like that or not, but just saying.

What Paul George rumor?

Read on Twitter

I wonder where Collier supposedly said that, as there's nothing on his Twitter to that effect.

I am not proposing this, but since this would seem to be very AK, would the Clipper (who supposedly were trying to get George to take 3 years/$150M) take Zach + salary filler + Portland pick for a 4-year maxed George coming back ($220 million)? DeRozen then walks or gets traded into cap space. Zach would be a shorter/lesser commitment and fits well with Leonard. Not so sure about the fit with Harden, if they bring him back.

Giddey
Coby
George
re-signed PWill
Vooch or replacement

George would have to agree to this under a "I'm securing my last bag" theory of the case, since he'd be leaving his hometown and a more appealing market.

[WindyCityBorn]

What Paul George rumor?

Read on Twitter

Paul George is the last guy we need on this team. I don't believe after this trade that we do a trade for a player that far into his career

Yep we need to go full youth movement.

[Axl Rose]

Adding for data:

Sporting News calls the trade “disastrous” for the bulls- D= trade grade.

How is a team far from contention trading an older player for a younger one who has shown he is an NBA player with upside to get better disastrous? The Vuc trade was disastrous, this trade is the opposite of that.

Too much knee jerk reaction because OKC didn't throw in a mediocre pick. I would have loved had they did, but i also don't think Bulls were in position to hold out on trading Caruso any longer.

[HearshotKDS]

I dont know enough about Giddey to form a strong opinion on the return, but I at least do see this as an indication that the Bulls arent desperate enough to try another run-it back season so im positively reacting to that!

[madvillian]

Adding for data:

Sporting News calls the trade “disastrous” for the bulls- D= trade grade.

How can a team, who is far from contention, trading an older player for a younger one who has shown he is an NBA player with upside to get better be disastrous? The Vuc trade was disastrous, this trade is the opposite of that.

Trading AC was the right move. People are questioning if the Bulls got the right value at the right time. There's more to it than just saying we got younger. Getting younger is a goal sure, but by itself doesn't make the trade smart.

[tunit213]

Ayo now coming off the bench can do what Caruso did for us off the bench.

[TheJordanRule]

The only legit concern I have is featured Giddey in Chicago fills the stat sheet in a big way on a bad team just in time for him to get overpaid significantly.

Although if we're just on the precipice of major cap jumps, it might be alright in the medium/long run.

I don't see many paths to upside in this deal. We're not going to be good, and even if Giddey plays well, we're going to immediately be overpaying him as a "core piece" of a team that is not in any universe anything more than a 6-8 seed type team. At best.

Are we closer this morning to a team we can be proud of and admire and that will give us a fun playoff series than we were yesterday?
I don't think so.

Change for change's sake isn't a plan, it's just hope.

No, brother. This is the first piece of change, and it is HUGE. Giddey's 21. He would probably be the first pick if he were in the NBA draft this year. Grabbing him is a great start to ridding ourselves of this crappy roster build. We'll pay restricted free agent money to keep him, which is decent value for what he can already do, and absolutely excellent value if he improves. Giddey's ability to contribute to an offense makes watching him extra fun.

Gimme a Walker Kessler or Derrick Lively out of a deal for DDR. Pair that dude up with a Donovan Clingan or Tidjane Salaun or out of this weak / mysterious draft. Add a valuable PF vet from free agency (Kyle Anderson / Tobias Harris, Kelly Oubre Jr if we have to) .

C: Walker Kessler or Derrick Lively / Vuce
PF: Kyle Anderson or Tobias Harris / Craig or rookie
SF: Josh Giddey / Bitim?
SG: Zach / Ayo
PG: Coby / Lonzo? Carter?

Instantly we're pretty solid at every position, with enough defense in the front court to make up for our defensive issues in the backcourt... That's a team that actually has a future, which is a lot more than I can say for our crappy 2023-2024 roster.

[tunit213]

30 year old with 130 career starts averaging 7/3/3

for

21 year old with 210 starts averaging 14/7/6

[madvillian]

30 year old with 130 career starts averaging 7/3/3

for

21 year old with 210 starts averaging 14/7/6

Sure, but the old guy had a higher VORP, a higher FTR (amazing) and a much, much higher 3PR. Using counting stats isn't going to flatter AC, but his value around the league and advanced stats put him in a proper context. He's an elite 3 and D guy. He shot 40% from deep last year on a career high 6 attempts a game.

I don't even value AC as much as some here, but dismissing him based on 7/3/3 is wild.

[FriedRise]

Ayo now coming off the bench can do what Caruso did for us off the bench.

This is why I'm very much fine with trading Caruso (the issue I have is the lack of picks) and all the other guys like DeMar and Zach. The kids are ready. They just need the room and opportunity to become a player, but they simply can't do that when every time adversity hits, they willingly go to their safety net in DeMar.

[yifsuibfe1]

I think people should pump the brakes on saying this trade is the start of a rebuild.

It's becoming very apparent that the Bulls are refusing draft compensation and opting for players in some lame attempt to remain competitive.

[WindyCityBorn]

Ayo now coming off the bench can do what Caruso did for us off the bench.

This is why I'm very much fine with trading Caruso (the issue I have is the lack of picks) and all the other guys like DeMar and Zach. The kids are ready. They just need the room and opportunity to become a player, but they simply can't do that when every time adversity hits, they willingly go to their safety net in DeMar.

I’m gonna keep saying this, but DeMar has to go for our young players to reach their full potential. We cannot keep him around another 2 or 3 years. I see zero upside to him remaining on our roster if you are thinking long term.

[Vintage]

In a vacuum, I like the trade. I’ll spare the details as to why because it’s been covered by many in the thread related to his youth, his progression, and likelihood to continue to show growth. Plus, trading a role player (a damn good one) who would be slowing down when we could potentially compete (best case scenario) for a guy who could be a long term piece (have to gamble given he’s got one year left on his contract).

But after thinking about it for awhile, I fear this isn’t a signal towards a rebuild. It’s a signal towards status quo. Giddey is meant to be the Ball replacement. Zach gets replaced by Coby/Ayo. They’ll resign DDR if they can. Lavine gets moved for whatever they can. They’ll bring back Williams, which, I’m ok with. And trot Vuch out at center again. This will be there “this is what we originally had hoped to see with Ball” attempt. They’ll see it as a marked improvement with the PG position and think it will be a contender to make the playoffs. Which, it likely will.

[burlydee]

I think people should pump the brakes on saying this trade is the start of a rebuild.

It's becoming very apparent that the Bulls are refusing draft compensation and opting for players in some lame attempt to remain competitive.

I think the roster is in for a major reshuffle. Call it a rebuild if you want but I expect the team to go younger. I wouldn't be surprised if Demar wasn't back.

[SfBull]

I like Giddey, actually. As a more ball-dominant player his first 2 seasons he was very good (especially given his age). He reminds he a bit of pre-injury Ben Simmons actually - for better and worse. And there are a lot worse guys you could have than that. Advanced metrics are pretty solid, clearly has playmaking skills we desperately need. If he were a decent 3-point shooter he’d be a star, and he’s obviously not. But I think he’s a decent guy to bet on the upside with.

The issue is OKC has like a million picks and you’d have to think with even a halfway competent guy negotiating our side, you could get one of then. It does suck to always be the worse end of any battle of front office wits.

Sort of a Simmons who can and wants to shoot.

[SfBull]

I like Giddey, actually. As a more ball-dominant player his first 2 seasons he was very good (especially given his age). He reminds he a bit of pre-injury Ben Simmons actually - for better and worse. And there are a lot worse guys you could have than that. Advanced metrics are pretty solid, clearly has playmaking skills we desperately need. If he were a decent 3-point shooter he’d be a star, and he’s obviously not. But I think he’s a decent guy to bet on the upside with.

The issue is OKC has like a million picks and you’d have to think with even a halfway competent guy negotiating our side, you could get one of then. It does suck to always be the worse end of any battle of front office wits.

We have guys at FO who seemingly don't value picks as someone like Krause would.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I doubt AKME was ever inclined or empowered to trade Caruso in a deal centered on picks. Which means his market was narrowed to teams with established young players that aren't part of the core/timeline. There just aren't many guys who fit that description. Kuminga? AKME barked up that tree. Unfortunately, it was after he'd already broken out. Jalen Green? Again... waited too long, broke out. Giddey? Flamed out in the playoffs, lousy fit with Thunder after Jalen Williams' emergence. Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

Problem is Presti understood the Bulls had narrowed Caruso's market and he used that leverage to withhold picks. I don't mind Giddey as a prospect, but it sucks to watch AKME lose value because everyone can read their hand.

[SfBull]

Listening to a lot of okc thunder media after this trade they all seem to have the same opinion. Giddy is a good player that wasn't properly utilized in the offense. They sort of played him how we played Lauri camped him out at the 3pt line when his game is cut and slash and he is at his best with the ball in his hands. As far as his shooting he is still young enough to improve their. And if they can make a reliable shooter out of ayo then they can do that for giddy as well. I like the addition. As far as the picks I don't know why we are still obsessed with adding a ton of worthless picks. Lol anyone who actually believed a team was going to trade a top 10 pick for Caruso, I got a bridge for sale in the west suburbs lol. Teams will heavily protect those and they become no more than what the portland pick is for us now. You don't mind them but I'm not blowing a gasket if we don't get them.

You read about offers for Caruso including top 10 picks,the thing can simply be our FO disliking drafting picks or being utterly incompetent for using them when available ( like picking Pat and Terry).