Where does Kobe rank All-Time with another Repeat?

Gongxi · Post #61 » by **Gongxi** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:46 pm

Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Gongxi wrote:Clutch free throws make a player the best player on a team?

Do you even think Kobe was 1B in 99-00?

No, it means that Shaq was not dominating in every facet of the game, like Jordan did. He needed a player like Bryant to three peat. Therefore, I give Bryant more credit than just being a sidekick like Scottie Pippen.

Jordan wasn't dominating from behind the arc, does that mean we give mystery credit to Steve Kerr? A player doesn't have to be the best at every facet to be clearly the best player on his team.

Again, do you think Kobe was 1B in 99-00?

NYK 455 · Post #62 » by **NYK 455** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:49 pm

Why can't Kobe fans accept that he wasn't the best player on the threepeat? Why is there such a strong need to change history? Is it to boost his legacy?

Gongxi · Post #63 » by **Gongxi** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:52 pm

Many of these guys are the same ones, in the early years of this decade (last decade? whatever) that honestly felt that Kobe was going to be better than Jordan when it was all said and done. They invested a lot of their basketball-watching selves into that, and they have to justify it to themselves that they really weren't that far off (a few of them still try to cling to the Kobe>Jordan thing, but the vast majority have faced up to that myth). In order to do that, they have to give Kobe as much possible credit for the championships as they can. It makes it a "Well, I was wrong, but I was insanely, crazily wrong; he still...." as opposed to "Yeah, ****, I was dumb for thinking that."

Minge · Post #64 » by **Minge** » Wed May 12, 2010 8:15 pm

Los Angeles 117, Sacramento 107

Los Angeles 113, Sacramento 89

Sacramento 99, Los Angeles 91

Sacramento 101, Los Angeles 88

Los Angeles 113, Sacramento 86

Los Angeles 105, Phoenix 77

Los Angeles 97, Phoenix 96

Los Angeles 105, Phoenix 99

Phoenix 117, Los Angeles 98

Los Angeles 87, Phoenix 65

Los Angeles 109, Portland 94

Portland 106, Los Angeles 77

Los Angeles 93, Portland 91

Los Angeles 103, Portland 91

Portland 96, Los Angeles 88

Portland 103, Los Angeles 93

Los Angeles 89, Portland 84

Los Angeles 104, Indiana 87

Los Angeles 111, Indiana 104

Indiana 100, Los Angeles 91

Los Angeles 120, Indiana 118

Indiana 120, Los Angeles 87

Los Angeles 116, Indiana 111

Los Angeles 106, Portland 93

Los Angeles 106, Portland 88

Los Angeles 99, Portland 86

Los Angeles 108, Sacramento 105

Los Angeles 96, Sacramento 90

Los Angeles 103, Sacramento 81

Los Angeles 119, Sacramento 113

Los Angeles 104, San Antonio 90

Los Angeles 88, San Antonio 81

Los Angeles 111, San Antonio 72

Los Angeles 111, San Antonio 82

Philadelphia 107, Los Angeles 101

Los Angeles 98, Philadelphia 89

Los Angeles 96, Philadelphia 91

Los Angeles 100, Philadelphia 86

Los Angeles 108, Philadelphia 96

Los Angeles 95, Portland 87

Los Angeles 103, Portland 96

Los Angeles 92, Portland 91

Los Angeles 86, San Antonio 80

San Antonio 88, Los Angeles 85

Los Angeles 99, San Antonio 89

Los Angeles 87, San Antonio 85

Los Angeles 93, San Antonio 87

Los Angeles 106, Sacramento 99

Sacramento 96, Los Angeles 90

Sacramento 103, Los Angeles 90

Los Angeles 100, Sacramento 99

Sacramento 92, Los Angeles 91

Los Angeles 106, Sacramento 102

Los Angeles 112, Sacramento 106

Los Angeles 99, New Jersey 94

Los Angeles 106, New Jersey 83

Los Angeles 106, New Jersey 103

Los Angeles 113, New Jersey 107

Wile E. Coyote · Post #65 » by **Wile E. Coyote** » Wed May 12, 2010 8:29 pm

Gongxi wrote:Jordan wasn't dominating from behind the arc, does that mean we give mystery credit to Steve Kerr? A player doesn't have to be the best at every facet to be clearly the best player on his team.

Again, do you think Kobe was 1B in 99-00?

You are honestly going to compare Kobe Bryant in 99-00 to Steve Kerr? Steve Kerr?? :roll:

Wile E. Coyote · Post #66 » by **Wile E. Coyote** » Wed May 12, 2010 8:30 pm

NYK 455 wrote:
Wile E. Coyote wrote:
NYK 455 wrote:Yeah, Kobe Bryant was better than Shaq because he was capable of hitting clutch free throws down the stretch of games. And while we're at it Allan Houston, Reggie Miller, and Ben Gordon are all better than Shaq for that same reason. Seriously now, come on.

I never said that Kobe was better than Shaq. You need to read thoroughly before you post your responses.

No, but you implied it.

I implied no such thing. All I implied was that Kobe deserves more credit for the three-peat than simply being Shaq's hanger-on.

Vincent 666 · Post #67 » by **Vincent 666** » Wed May 12, 2010 8:51 pm

WIth a ring and finals MVP Kobe moves ahead of Hakeem Duncan and Shaq.

Same group as Bird.

JimMurray · Post #68 » by **JimMurray** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:09 pm

KobeFarmarEra wrote:5 rings. 3 straight and a back to back. 7 finals in last 11 seasons.

Top 10

He's already top 10 of all time, but another ring will cement it. Another three peat....top 5 all time.

JimMurray · Post #69 » by **JimMurray** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:10 pm

DaDragicShow wrote:
KobeFarmarEra wrote:5 rings. 3 straight and a back to back. 7 finals in last 11 seasons.

I believe you just jinxed the Lakers from moving on to the finals. And as of now I choose the Suns in 6 games. Great going buddy.

Dragic...I bought you a new Harry Potter dvd....just for you. Take your sorcerers costume back to the penis board.

Gongxi · Post #70 » by **Gongxi** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:11 pm

Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Gongxi wrote:Jordan wasn't dominating from behind the arc, does that mean we give mystery credit to Steve Kerr? A player doesn't have to be the best at every facet to be clearly the best player on his team.

Again, do you think Kobe was 1B in 99-00?

You are honestly going to compare Kobe Bryant in 99-00 to Steve Kerr? Steve Kerr??

That's where your logic leads. Shaq didn't need to be the best at every facet of the game in order to be the clear #1.

Minge · Post #71 » by **Minge** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:15 pm

^ I posted this in, "Has Kobe surpassed Hakeem?".

Minge wrote:
That Nicka wrote:Julius vs Kobe could probably go either way as well... they both score about 25 ppg per 36 on about 56% TS%... Erving gets more rebounds but played at a faster pace back then and he is a SF... Erving only made 1 All-defensive team... Kobe was an elite defender from 2000-04 and has made 9 All-defensive teams... Both won 1 MVP in the NBA.

One of most explosive athletes in the NBA. Skill level? All-D? He barely had a 19' jumpshot.

mademan wrote:Kobe played like a 1st option superstar in the last 2 championship runs during the 3peat yet some credit him like pippen. He wasn't as dominant as Shaq, and he doesn't deserve as much credit as him, but to say "he only has 1 championship because the others were as 2nd options" doesn't do justice to what he did for that lakers team.

The illusion of O'Neal's and Bryant's championships overshadowed by O'Neal as the 1st option, when in fact, they both shared that responsibility since 2001. Pippen does not deserve equal weight. Pippen was nowhere near as dominant of a scorer as his counterpart. Pippen never averaged more than 22.8-ppg without Jordan. Bryant was an equally dominant scorer as his counterpart and it did not matter if O'Neal was on or off the floor. The argument for Pippen's role for Bryant only holds for the year 2000. After that? It's thrown out the window. Bryant had both Jordan's and Pippen's roles combined. Top perimeter defender. Top playmaker. Top perimeter offensive option, up to nearly 30-points anyway. That has always been forgotten throughout Bryant's career. Duncan on the other hand didn't have the level of responsibilities as Bryant, yet he is excused because of the championships. Playmaker? Go to guy in the 4th? His teammates helped to mask his own deficiencies. While Bryant may have only had Pippen's duties in 2000 what was the difference between them? Bryant was always the go to guy in the 4th. Pippen? Nope. I'd think that's pretty vital.

Wile E. Coyote · Post #72 » by **Wile E. Coyote** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:42 pm

Gongxi wrote:That's where your logic leads. Shaq didn't need to be the best at every facet of the game in order to be the clear #1.

I'll admit that Shaq was 1A, but Kobe was 1B.

Tim_Hardawayy · Post #73 » by **Tim_Hardawayy** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:44 pm

Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Gongxi wrote:That's where your logic leads. Shaq didn't need to be the best at every facet of the game in order to be the clear #1.

I'll admit that Shaq was 1A, but Kobe was 1B.

Kobe was 1B in 01 and 02, but pretty clearly #2 in 00.

Jimmy76 · Post #74 » by **Jimmy76** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:47 pm

Shaq had a massively higher usg% in 2000
about the same in 2001
Shaq slightly higher in 2002

id buy Kobe 2 in 2000 1b in 2001-2002

Wile E. Coyote · Post #75 » by **Wile E. Coyote** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:48 pm

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:
Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Gongxi wrote:That's where your logic leads. Shaq didn't need to be the best at every facet of the game in order to be the clear #1.

I'll admit that Shaq was 1A, but Kobe was 1B.

Kobe was 1B in 01 and 02, but pretty clearly #2 in 00.

That's fair.

I'm just saying that he deserves more than #2 status for all the championships. He did more heavy lifting than any other 2nd best player on any championship team.

FireColangelo · Post #76 » by **FireColangelo** » Wed May 12, 2010 9:49 pm

Larry Bird was a bigger douche than LeBron will ever be.

Minge · Post #77 » by **Minge** » Wed May 12, 2010 10:38 pm

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:
Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Gongxi wrote:That's where your logic leads. Shaq didn't need to be the best at every facet of the game in order to be the clear #1.

I'll admit that Shaq was 1A, but Kobe was 1B.

Kobe was 1B in 01 and 02, but pretty clearly #2 in 00.

Bryant was #1 in the 4th in 2000. He broke away from the triangle (offense) down the stretch in Games 4 and 6 in the Finals. He broke down the defense, creating plays for his teammates including O'Neal. Game 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mReel-_6QHE#t=4m40s

Gongxi · Post #78 » by **Gongxi** » Wed May 12, 2010 10:53 pm

And yet he's still clearly the sidekick that year.

Minge · Post #79 » by **Minge** » Wed May 12, 2010 11:08 pm

Bryant had an equal role with Pippen in 2000. After that, P.J. had Bryant cover elite perimeter players in the last quarter or half, so that Bryant could take over in the 4th quarter offensively. That does not mean Bryant didn't have Pippen's role defensively as well. As a #1 option, O'Neal was never counted on in the 4th quarter, it was Bryant. That's more responsibility than Pippen. O'Neal didn't really have competition talentwise, so teams had to focus on him. Bryant had better competition. Still doubled on the perimeter. Still zoned on the perimeter. Still equally as dominant. When teams figured out to stop Bryant instead of O'Neal, the Lakers went nowhere.

Tim_Hardawayy · Post #80 » by **Tim_Hardawayy** » Wed May 12, 2010 11:10 pm

Minge wrote:
Gongxi wrote:And yet he's still clearly the sidekick that year.

Bryant had an equal role as Pippen in 2000. After that, PJ had Bryant cover the elite perimeter players in the last quarter or half, so that Bryant could take over in the 4th quarter offensively. That doesn't mean Bryant didn't have Pippen's role defensively, as well. As a #1 option, O'Neal was never counted on in the 4th quarter, it was Bryant. That's more responsibility than Pippen. O'Neal didn't really have competition talentwise. Teams had to focus on him. Bryant had better competition. Still was doubled on the perimeter. Still zoned on the perimeter. Still equally as dominant. When teams figured out to stop Bryant instead of O'Neal, the Lakers went nowhere.

Yeah, its a shame teams figured out all they had to do was stop Kobe, that's why the Lakers never won the championship that season.

This revisionist history is amazing.