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Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#61 » by sunny » Fri Apr 1, 2011 2:56 pm

Reignman wrote:I have Knight ahead of Walker as well. Actually, Kemba's not even in my top 5. Undersized, junior and hasn't shown much of his passing game.

It's not one flag but a couple of flags that don't make me a fan. I'd be dissapointed if he were our pick. My guess is he'll always be a much better college player than a pro. Knight might not be all that great either but all the tools are there and he does need to polish his passing game but at least he doesn't have the perceived low ceiling of a guy like Kemba.

Hopefully Knight can end this debate on Saturday, should be a great game.



reignman, do you watch this much ncaab everyyear?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#62 » by sunny » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:03 pm

CZAR85 wrote:I guess you should never make predictions then because anything could happen...


It's not like Kentucky is going to be the 1972 Dolphins. Sure, they have a shot at winning, but I wouldn't put them as massive favourites.

The fact that Cal is coaching, and it will be a team of all freshman, I'm pretty confident they wont be winning.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#63 » by phailing101 » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:07 pm

These rumours about Barnes not entering the draft concerns me.

They seem entirely based off some comments his mom made but NBAdraft.net has pulled him from their mock anyways.

If he goes back to UNC, Perry Jones and Vesely are really going to climb and Kanter locks himself in as a top 3 guy IMO.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#64 » by God Squad » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:13 pm

sunny wrote:
CZAR85 wrote:Kentucky sadly. Coach Cal is winning this year and next year if any of their freshmen stay.


There are way too many variables to say that Kentucky would win next year. Keep in mind that Kentucky didn't win when they had a better recruiting class in 2009. Recruits don't always pan out as they should and Cal isn't the best coach to begin with.
Additionally, think of how frequently the best teams don't win the tournament. Zero 1 or 2 seeds this year made the final four.


See, I was talking about Saturday. I have no clue whats going on next year. lol
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#65 » by Alfred » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:19 pm

phailing101 wrote:These rumours about Barnes not entering the draft concerns me.

They seem entirely based off some comments his mom made but NBAdraft.net has pulled him from their mock anyways.

If he goes back to UNC, Perry Jones and Vesely are really going to climb and Kanter locks himself in as a top 3 guy IMO.


I'm pretty sure that NBADraft.net doesn't have any inside information.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#66 » by Kaizen » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:21 pm

I know they were the first to say Chris Paul was entering the draft. UNC fans seem pretty confident that he is staying.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#67 » by Rhettmatic » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:26 pm

New DX mock:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

They included NBA teams this time, and they have us taking Barnes at 4. (Though I don't think they account for team needs until after the lottery).
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#68 » by bboyskinnylegs » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:29 pm

Wow the Cavs would be so lucky if they walk away from this draft with Kyrie and Kanter.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#69 » by bboyskinnylegs » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:34 pm

Bismack Biyombo's coach is telling him that he's off the team if he attends the Hoop Summit.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#70 » by God Squad » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:42 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Wow the Cavs would be so lucky if they walk away from this draft with Kyrie and Kanter.

omg. Yeah crazy. Nice start moving forward.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#71 » by God Squad » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:45 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Bismack Biyombo's coach is telling him that he's off the team if he attends the Hoop Summit.

Why exactly? Also i've never seen him play but heard about him the other day. Any good?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#72 » by s e n s i » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:50 pm

Reignman wrote:I have Knight ahead of Walker as well. Actually, Kemba's not even in my top 5. Undersized, junior and hasn't shown much of his passing game.

It's not one flag but a couple of flags that don't make me a fan. I'd be dissapointed if he were our pick. My guess is he'll always be a much better college player than a pro. Knight might not be all that great either but all the tools are there and he does need to polish his passing game but at least he doesn't have the perceived low ceiling of a guy like Kemba.

Hopefully Knight can end this debate on Saturday, should be a great game.


Probably not at 5, but I'd be happy with either, if say we traded down.

I sort of understand why Kemba's game raises a lot of flags when considering how it'll translate to the pros, but this kid is full of unteachable intangibles (leadership, toughness, doesn't back down, swagger), and his ability to pass the ball is pretty underrated imo. Look no further than the first game of the tourney where he masterfully ran the UConn offense. Sure, it was against Bucknell, but he showed the passing gene I didn't think he had.

And the reason why (aside from stats) people are quick to discredit his passing skills is because he's such a good scorer and aside from him, there really isn't another player on the roster (Lamb is more of a slasher/spot-up/transition guy) that Calhoun can ask for a basket out of thin air from. My guess is that if there was another scorer on the team, he wouldn't be forced to carry the offensive load and wouldn't be given as much leeway to shoot the ball as he has. But either way, he's a damn good scorer. The kid dropped 36 points on the best defense in the tourney in their own backyard...putting the team on his back by scoring 14 straight when the game was hanging in the balance. He dominated the Big East tourney, having stretches where he's impossible to stop and he's hit like how many game winners this season?

His ability to create space for his jumper is impressive, he has a variety of jukes and crossovers, he can get into the paint whenever he wants and knows how to use his body to shield interior defenders from blocking his shot, and he's adept at using both hands to finish. His defense is fine too, despite his penchant for gambling and cheating passing lanes. But he's quick and wants to shut his opponent down from what I've seen.

I suspect he'll never been a amazingly efficient scorer, and will have some turnover issues as he matures, but I put a ton of value into one's ability to win a game for his team, not just with one shot, but a several minute stretch where he cannot be stopped, and he's done that a handful of times this season. This UConn team would be unranked if not for Walker this season and that says a lot imo.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#73 » by pspot » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:57 pm

Minny with Williams and Wes Johnson would be an interesting pair

does 2 tweeners = 1 pf and 1 sf?

Can't see teams reaching on Valanciunas ahead of reaching on P Jones

for the Wiz Lewis, P Jones and McGee could be one hell of an athletic front court but I'd think they'd
go with Barnes. Guess it depends on whether they want to play Lewis at the 3 or 4

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#74 » by gerrit4 » Fri Apr 1, 2011 4:20 pm

chocolateSensi wrote:
Reignman wrote:I have Knight ahead of Walker as well. Actually, Kemba's not even in my top 5. Undersized, junior and hasn't shown much of his passing game.

It's not one flag but a couple of flags that don't make me a fan. I'd be dissapointed if he were our pick. My guess is he'll always be a much better college player than a pro. Knight might not be all that great either but all the tools are there and he does need to polish his passing game but at least he doesn't have the perceived low ceiling of a guy like Kemba.

Hopefully Knight can end this debate on Saturday, should be a great game.


Probably not at 5, but I'd be happy with either, if say we traded down.

I sort of understand why Kemba's game raises a lot of flags when considering how it'll translate to the pros, but this kid is full of unteachable intangibles (leadership, toughness, doesn't back down, swagger), and his ability to pass the ball is pretty underrated imo. Look no further than the first game of the tourney where he masterfully ran the UConn offense. Sure, it was against Bucknell, but he showed the passing gene I didn't think he had.

And the reason why (aside from stats) people are quick to discredit his passing skills is because he's such a good scorer and aside from him, there really isn't another player on the roster (Lamb is more of a slasher/spot-up/transition guy) that Calhoun can ask for a basket out of thin air from. My guess is that if there was another scorer on the team, he wouldn't be forced to carry the offensive load and wouldn't be given as much leeway to shoot the ball as he has. But either way, he's a damn good scorer. The kid dropped 36 points on the best defense in the tourney in their own backyard...putting the team on his back by scoring 14 straight when the game was hanging in the balance. He dominated the Big East tourney, having stretches where he's impossible to stop and he's hit like how many game winners this season?

His ability to create space for his jumper is impressive, he has a variety of jukes and crossovers, he can get into the paint whenever he wants and knows how to use his body to shield interior defenders from blocking his shot, and he's adept at using both hands to finish. His defense is fine too, despite his penchant for gambling and cheating passing lanes. But he's quick and wants to shut his opponent down from what I've seen.

I suspect he'll never been a amazingly efficient scorer, and will have some turnover issues as he matures, but I put a ton of value into one's ability to win a game for his team, not just with one shot, but a several minute stretch where he cannot be stopped, and he's done that a handful of times this season. This UConn team would be unranked if not for Walker this season and that says a lot imo.



I like Walker (and I'm hardly an expert on him) but I'm reminded of when we had TJ on this team. I always felt like we could never beat a team with a big PG over the course of a 7 game season. TJ got murdered against guys like Chauncey & Kidd in the playoffs because of their ability to post him up. IT was awful. If it wasn't for the double teams, those guys could have shot 70%. That being said, TJ also wasn't able to make them pay when he was on the offensive end. For some reason, in those series, his positive work was offset by how bad he was on the defensive end. I mean, Jose was a better defender on Kidd in the NJ series, based purely on the fact that he was bigger.

I guess the issue with this team is that we already have too many guys who can't guard their position, or can't do the things that are required for their position. We have a 5 who can't rebound, a 4 who can't score, a 2 who can't shoot, a 1 who can't defend or create the way you hope a PG can. Adding a small PG to a team with the right pieces may be a bit safer.

That being said, we really do need to draft for talent, not need. We're just not good enough to draft for need.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#75 » by Kaizen » Fri Apr 1, 2011 4:28 pm

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#76 » by FluLikeSymptoms » Fri Apr 1, 2011 4:43 pm

I don't know why any NBA GM would choose Kemba Walker over Brandon Knight. Even if they have roughly equal chances of offensive success, BK has a decent shot at being able to guard somebody and Kemba does not.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#77 » by Double Helix » Fri Apr 1, 2011 5:21 pm

All this time I thought Walker was a sophomore. Seriously. I thought he had just turned 20 this year because I remember him in college last year but I didn't realize he was around during the Blake Griffin draft!

Derozan is going to be entering his 3rd NBA year next year and he's only going to be 10 months older than Kemba Walker as a rookie.

That does change my opinion of Walker a little.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#78 » by just23 » Fri Apr 1, 2011 5:25 pm

FluLikeSymptoms wrote:I don't know why any NBA GM would choose Kemba Walker over Brandon Knight. Even if they have roughly equal chances of offensive success, BK has a decent shot at being able to guard somebody and Kemba does not.


This is my biggest concern with Kemba. The Raptors are a truly terrible defensive team. One of the worst ever in fact and we need to add 2 way players. I think Kemba will be a solid enough scorer, but he'll struggle to guard the big and fast pg's of today's NBA. I know he can be disruptive in the passing lanes and I like gamblers more than most, but players like that need people to back them up in case they don't come up with the steal and their man gets an open lane. Iverson was one of the best ever in the passing lanes, but at his peak he was surrounded by solid and in the case of guys like Mutumbo, amazing defenders. We don't have good defenders to cover for mistakes, so we need to start from the beginning with guys who can become solid man to man defenders. I don't know a lot about Knight, but he probably has a better shot at developing man defense than Kemba. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#79 » by Reignman » Fri Apr 1, 2011 5:27 pm

Double Helix wrote:All this time I thought Walker was a sophomore. Seriously. I thought he had just turned 20 this year because I remember him in college last year but I didn't realize he was around during the Blake Griffin draft!

Derozan is going to be entering his 3rd NBA year next year and he's only going to be 10 months older than Kemba Walker as a rookie.

That does change my opinion of Walker a little.


Yup, now picture some of the other freshmen in this draft and imagine if they stayed in college for 3 years. I'm guessing if a guy like Knight stayed for 3 years there wouldn't even be a debate about who is better considering many of us already want Knight ahead of Kemba now.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#80 » by Basketball_Jones » Fri Apr 1, 2011 5:41 pm

I'm not too concerned about defense at the point guard spot to be honest. I'd still take Knight over Walker though.
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