Kemba Walker

[ComboGuardCity]

I posted the comparison on the PC board to get unbiased opinions.

So far though Charlotte/Kemba has looked really good and Detroit/Knight are underwhelming and you can see why people are making judgements.

The Bobcats have beaten

1. The Mavs without Dirk and Marion.
2. The Winless Wizards
3. The Wolves without Pek, Love, Rubio, Barea, or Roy
4. The Pacers who haven't beaten anybody over .500

Now who's to say if the Pistons and the Cats switch schedules, the respective results aren't flipped. You're gloating over a small sample size and its going to come back and bite you.

[Elden Payton]

We played the Pacers in our first game of the season btw, I think their form slump has something to do with you know...us beating them...

How long have the Wizards been in the lotto, don't discredit them, they should be good by now.

The Wolves still had AK47, Williams, Shved etc (they probably have more talent than us)

The Mavs are beating teams left, right and centre but when we beat them it's because Dirk's out...sure

Also I'm not trolling, this is a legitimate question as they were drafted back to back and play the same position.

[ComboGuardCity]

We played the Pacers in our first game of the season btw, I think their form slump has something to do with you know...us beating them...

How long have the Wizards been in the lotto, don't discredit them, they should be good by now.

The Wolves still had AK47, Williams, Shved etc (they probably have more talent than us)

The Mavs are beating teams left, right and centre but when we beat them it's because Dirk's out...sure

Also I'm not trolling, this is a legitimate question as they were drafted back to back and play the same position.

Lots of words. Nothing concrete to back it up. Come on Infant. You talk a big game. Back it up!

[Elden Payton]

We beat all those teams, that's pretty concrete...

Who have you guys beat?? Philly without Bynum...Is that a legit win?

[ComboGuardCity]

We beat all those teams, that's pretty concrete...

Who have you guys beat?? Philly without Bynum...Is that a legit win?

Like I said, back it up man. This "debate" is not over. Show your true beliefs. There's an offer on the table. Take it, or stop posting this recursive stuff all over the place.

[Elden Payton]

I don't have to make a financial bet with you to have a valid point.

You guys have already lost to the Suns, Kings and Magic.

The Suns beat us too but we've already beaten better teams than those three, we lost to Memphis by 7 also which is respectable.

[Pharaoh]

Sik - I'm sure a majority of people will choose Kemba/Charlotte based on what we've seen this season

But my point is that the season is still young... as are the 2 players you guys are talking about. No one can make a true judgement on either player because they haven't played in the NBA long enough.

But that's just my opinion - 2 years is not enough to fairly judge any player.

Why does the team win-loss record matter if you guys are discussing individual talent?

Or are you guys not discussing individuals? Cause I thought you guys were choosing between Kemba and Knight... and their individual strengths and weaknesses as opposed to how they fit on their current squads

I'm of the opinion that Kemba is awesome for Charlotte right now. Dude needs to shoulder a lot of the load and is either your best or 2nd best player depending on who else decides to turn up on the day.

Knight? Dude doesn't have to be the best or 2nd best or even the 3rd best player on the Pistons. His role is completely different to Kemba's role in Charlotte - completely different! His job is to facilitate the offense, scoring is almost the last thing on his agenda

IF you put Kemba on the Pistons the team still goes nowhere! Dude can't shoot from deep (like Stuckey) and opponents can hang back and defend the paint - killing our best offensive weapon (Monroe)

No Piston fan should want Walker on this roster - not with Stuckey still here.

IF you put Knight on the Bobcats? I'll leave that for someone else

[ComboGuardCity]

I don't have to make a financial bet with you to have a valid point.

You guys have already lost to the Suns, Kings and Magic.

The Suns beat us too but we've already beaten better teams than those three, we lost to Memphis by 7 also which is respectable.

I'm just saying. Its kind of funny how you talk in such absolutes and then you won't back it up with something so small, specifically after calling the city/economy trash in other threads. Its ironic that you can't back it up while I, a Detroit product, which given what you have said means I should not be able to financially, am willing.

Unless you're finally deciding to either admit your foolishness or actually back up what you're saying rather than making little back handed comments on other boards, don't respond to me.

[Elden Payton]

Good post Pharaoh and great points.

The record matters because a PG always impacts in the W/L column and Kemba is leading his team to victories and hitting game winners while Knight is struggling.

Also Detroit has much more talent than Charlotte and yet is still struggling, if Knight was a transcendental player as many have suggested in this thread then Detroit would be much better.

Intangibles count too and Kemba has them in spades, does Knight? I actually think Kemba on the Pistons is a good fit.

All last year we had to listen (even on our own board from Piston's fans) how much superior Knight was to Kemba and this isn't the case, even last year Kemba had a 14.9 PER compared to Knight's 11.7

I expect Kemba's stats to drop a little and Charlotte to only have around 22 wins but Kemba won't be the reason for that.

[Pharaoh]

Sik - You say you expect Kemab's stats to drop a little and Charlotte to only have around 22 wins BUT Kemba won't be the reason for that...

so how is Knight to blame for the Pistons current record?

Does the schedule make much of a difference? Does the Coach? Does the environment? I'm not saying it should or should not be considered but I don't believe ground rules have been set for the discussion and it's more about people pimping their guy than anything else

Both players are very young, likely to improve and I'm sure we all hope both teams improve as well. Ideally we'd end up going H2H in the ECFs for years to come

In the meantime some people will talk up "their" player, act like he's actually done something important and pretend that whatever he's done so far is a clear indication of what he WILL do in the future...

I find the whole debate pointless tbh but it does entertain me because I'm interested in how people think

I wasn't around last season but if Detroit fans trolled your board then you have every right to come here and state your case until your fingers drop off. Be my guest

Trolling is an unfortunate side effect we all have to deal with. Deal with it as you see fit

[Elden Payton]

Great post Pharaoh, I'm honestly not trolling but yes we did get trolled pretty hard (7-59 means you get trolled)

I'm not blaming Knight for you being so bad but I think if Knight was having the impact Piston's fans are making him out to have then they would be better no doubt.

The schedule does make a difference obviously and no doubt Piston's have had a tough start to the season but the Piston's should have given Houston a run and beaten Phoenix and Sacto no doubt.

Also discrediting our wins when the only win the Psiton's have is Philly minus Bynum, should I discredit that?

The one thing I don't doubt is that the Piston's have a lot of talent and are underachieving.

[ducler]

You know, BK is working on his PG plays, and I like the way he improves on his assists numbers (from 3.8 to 7.1 and counting) with this 12 assists' game versus the Magic. Even if his other numbers are on the way down, all I wanted to see from him this year was that statistical improvement (his rebounds numbers are on the way up too). I saw this as a Rondo-like improvement: Rondo was 3.8 assists in his first year, 5.1 in his second, 8.2 in his third. Now he's number one in assists in the league. And still, Knight is younger and is a better shooter, a worst defender though...

The difference between Knight and Walker is that Knight doesn't have to be a go-to-scorer for the future Pistons. Walker is the best Bobcats' scorer with 18.8, so in a team where the second best offensive weapon is... Ramon Sessions, his back-up ! He's also 5.8 assists per game. In Detroit, the principal offensive weapons are supposed to be Monroe and Stuckey, even if Rodney disappoints everyone. So Knight's job is not to score and I don't see how it would have been different for Walker here. To me, Knight is just better than Walker in what we need him to do and to improve for the future.

Finally, the Bobcats will not be a good team for years to come, maybe not bad, but not good neither. I prefer to see the Pistons lose this year, add the last young piece to our core in the summer and see it grows together. The way Knight improves, the way Monroe plays, add to them Drummond and why not Shabazz Muhammad, Singler, and you obtain a pretty young core that will destroy the Bobcats sooner than later, Kemba Walker or not.

[Blkbrd671]

i think its just a Sik gettin a simple case of "hyped up", where a player starts playing phenomenol, then all of a sudden comparisons and predictions start popping up.

Kemba led one of the worst teams in NBA history last season, so does that make him not as good? We both lost to the suns, does that mean they were equal players that game? if kemba gets injured and Charlotte keeps winning, does that mean kemba isn't relevant? Sik you keep bringing up W/L and opponents, its really irrelevant in this discussion.

player to player, they are both good players. i like knights upside,work ethic and talent for our team a lot better than kemba's. Even if kemba is playing better right now, its not enough of a margin for it to be even debated. additionally its there sophomore year.

Lets slow down and recognize that we are 10 games in to a season.

[Pharaoh]

I'll continue to be impartial...but in fairness to the Charlotte fans full disclosure:

IMO Kemba Walker would be terrible in Detroit.It has to be said! He doesn't have the mentality right now to be a facilitator. And that's a great thing for Charlotte because they need Kemba to be exactly what he is right now.

Knight? He's exactly what the Pistons need. He shoots at a reasonable clip from deep and therefore has to be defended on the perimeter, meaning that's one less guy that can sag into the lane to help on Monroe.

Switch the players.... Detroit are even worse offensively because now there is another non-shooter on the floor. When the game was there to be taken opposing teams would play the pass/drive with Kemba simply because the Pistons lack the long range threats to space the floor well enough for Walker's drive or Monroe's post play

Knight in Charlotte would mean Mullens, Sessions or MKG become the #1 option offensively... and unless I've missed something none of them are capable right now. Charlotte would likely be able to hold their own but in close games when they needed someone to take over they'd fall.

I do believe that MKG and Mullens would develop into different kind of players due to the fact that the entire Charlotte offense would be designed to benefit all these complimentary pieces. Knight would actually be running a designed play for someone - not making plays for himself! Knight would be dishing it to a player who knows exactly when and where he should receive the ball - as opposed to having it dumped to him because Kemba ran out of options/time.

That's the difference between a facilitating and a "scoring" PG. The scorer pounds the ball, dominates the ball and on many plays only dishes the ball when all "me" options have been extinguished or time is running out... so many of his team mates are left standing around...

with a facilitator every other player on the floor knows that if they "keep moving" on the offensive end they could end up with the ball. Plays break down all the time, defensive assignments get missed all the time. A good facilitator is always looking for someone a step too slow, or too fast... any advantage on any play in order to get his team mate an easier or more open shot. For the facilitator it's all about making the right play, which more often than not is for someone else!

It;s a fundamental difference that goes to the heart of a player - and kills this discussion dead for me (hence I'm an impartial observer). Knight is a facilitator. Kemba is not. There is nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all! Several quality teams have featured scoring guards, several featured facilitators.

I'll now sit back and enjoy the rest of the discussion.

[princeofpalace]

Brandon Knight is tied for 11th in assists per game and 13th in assists per 48. Thats pretty impressive for a sophomore. Im laughing at the idea that he's "struggling" or that he's a combo guard and not a PG

He's doing so much better than last season as far as PG play is concerned. Granted, PG is the deepest position in the league, but most of the PG's are scorers first (mostly slashers TBH) and then passers. If Knight can continue the trend in becoming a "true" PG while also showing the ability to score (via shooting especially), hes going to be pretty special because he bucks the trend of drive first PGs that can dish.

This is one area that Im impressed with Frank, I think he's done a good job in developing Knight into more of a passer. And, I think we have to continue to be patient with him, its clear that he's still a work in progress but he is only 20 and he has shown significant progress.

[mrknowitall215]

No matter how you try to flip it, Kemba Walker is better than Brandon Knight. Walker might not be a pass-first PG, but he is a better PG, better offensively, better defensively, and a better floor leader than Knight is. Speaking of who is and who's not a "pass-first PG", "true PG", and blah blah blah, here's Hollinger's scouting report on Knight:

+ Scoring-minded, very quick combo guard who can slash to hoop. Drives to score.

I wasn't wild about Knight a season ago and I'm still not now, as he added to the Pistons' collection of shoot-first combo guards by posting the fifth-worst pure point rating at his position and struggling to convert off the dribble.

And while he got to the basket at a decent clip, he neither drew fouls nor found teammates.

He's not a starting-caliber point guard and may never become one, but his potential as a scorer and defender could make him an ace third guard.

Perhaps Knight's best stat is 21, his age in December.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/h ... don-knight

[OneBadMutha]

Both are young guards and neither is good enough to lead a contender right now however Kemba is closer to his ceiling. It's Kemba's style that's most troubling. He's a ball dominant midget. I'll always contend that if you're going to be ball dominant, then you'd better either be a superstar or a 6th man on a contender.

Rose can be ball dominant. Kemba is not good enough to be.

We just witnessed the same issue with Stuckey. Over Stuckey's career he's had moments when he's looked like an All Star including stretches last year. This year they wanted to distribute responsibilities more and spread it around and he struggled.

Chicago can build a team around Rose with defenders and guys who can be effective off the ball. If Charlotte wants to continue to do the same around Kemba, they'll be an irrelevant franchise while Kemba puts up nice stats.

Kemba is a poor man's Iverson, a rich man's Bynum. Stats don't tell the story.

I didn't really like Knight as a pure point option out of college and last year but he's starting to do some things Chauncy did as far as running a team. He can distribute and play off his teammates while spacing the floor early on and then pick his spots to try scoring. I don't see a Star but in the long run his style will blend with other winning players.

[ducler]

Hollinger is and will ever be a crap. He's not worth a reporter job. That what we can say for him. Plus, he hates the Pistons (remember, he said that '04 Pistons championship should come with an asterisk) so it's easy to quote what this dumbass said...

Knight is a better fit in Detroit than Walker would have been. Walker is a combo-guard scorer, not a PG. I don't say that Brandon is a real PG for now, but he works hard to become that type of player. A true point guard. Hard work pays off. Walker is and will be a better scorer than Knight, but it's not what we need here.

"Not a starting-caliber point guard" your friend said. We'll see it in years to come. But I'm fine with a point guard who's ranked 12th in assists in NBA in his 2nd year, even if he's considered by jerks as a bencher...

[MrBigShot]

Hollinger is and will ever be a crap. He's not worth a reporter job. That what we can say for him. Plus, he hates the Pistons (remember, he said that '04 Pistons championship should come with an asterisk) so it's easy to quote what this dumbass said...

Knight is a better fit in Detroit than Walker would have been. Walker is a combo-guard scorer, not a PG. I don't say that Brandon is a real PG for now, but he works hard to become that type of player. A true point guard. Hard work pays off. Walker is and will be a better scorer than Knight, but it's not what we need here.

"Not a starting-caliber point guard" your friend said. We'll see it in years to come. But I'm fine with a point guard who's ranked 12th in assists in NBA in his 2nd year, even if he's considered by jerks as a bencher...

I second this. Hollinger is just a stats guy. Purely a stats guy. The most important thing mentioned in this thread is Kemba's ball dominance vs. Knight's style.

It's not easy to succeed when you have someone dominating the ball like DRose or Cp3...when he in fact, is not DRose or CP3. Brandon Knight's style fits into more systems and promotes an offense with a lot of ball movement. He's averaging 7 assists/game btw, with no shooters to pass to. I'd say that's a pretty good improvement from last year.

You give the ball to guys like Kyrie Irving, but not to Kemba...he's just not good enough to run an offense through.

[kurtis48239]

ALL this is and ever will be is kemba is hitting a hot streak right now and the lolcats are having a better record,so they want to TROLL the pistons board,they have no class and I didnt hear them this vocal about kemba last year or the lolcats.What are we 3 weeks into the season and your gloating about how great kemba is ,jesus christ get a life.