2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt III

[HotRocks34]

Just to simplify my above post on this page as regards Durant and LeBron in February, for those familiar with PER.

There was a time in late January, I think, where Durant's PER was like 31.3 or so. Insane number. That number is now like 30.4. In other words, Durant's efficiency came down in February, as you can see in the NBA.com "PIE" number. PIE is efficiency, just the NBA.com version of it rather than the Hollinger version (PER).

In the same time period, LeBron's PER dipped to like 28.6 or so in late January, I think. Before last night, LeBron's PER was up to like 29.7 or so. Meaning, it went up in February. As the PIE figure also shows.

You can't spin that. Durant's efficiency went down in February and LeBron's went up. That's pretty much all you need to know. The two comparative PIE's (LeBron 22.0 vs Durant 19.2) tell the story pretty well. So anyone trying to spin Durant had a February even close to LeBron's is way, way off.

[MisterHibachi]

At the end of the day, is there anything more valuable than the best player in the league?

[infinite11285]

As of today, Durant is ahead in PER by 0.07. Miami and OKC's records are a push right now.

As of right now, that's the hair that gives Durant the nod.

[HotRocks34]

Barkley: MVP will come down to who has better record, Miami or OKC

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10548902

I agree with him, and made that argument on page 1 of this MVP discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1307774#p38856801

Stats alone won't necessarily get it done. Ask Chris Paul in 2007-08.

[KING JAMES1978]

At the end of the day, is there anything more valuable than the best player in the league?

Isn't the same.
2005 & 2006 Nash was the most valuable player in the league but he wasn't the best player in the game.

[HotRocks34]

Barkley: MVP will come down to who has better record, Miami or OKC

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10548902

I agree with this, and made a similar argument in Page 1 of the new MVP thread.

Stats alone won't get it done. Just ask Chris Paul in 2007-08.

[Keller61]

As of today, Durant is ahead in PER by 0.07. Miami and OKC's records are a push right now.

As of right now, that's the hair that gives Durant the nod.

Because PER is the perfect stat

[celticfan42487]

LeBron. He's just starting to play seriously and gear up for the playoffs.

Durant might equal his stats but there's a reason why LeBron will win another Finals MVP. And that's the same reason the writers will give him the regular MVP.

[James Rustles]

I'm surprised more people aren't pointing out that the Heat without LeBron are still the 2nd seed in the East and the Thunder without Durant would probably either miss or barely make it into the playoffs.

[James Rustles]

The one whose team wouldn't have the exact same seed without him for the whole season.

[cpower]

if OKC wins west and MIA fails to win east, it's KD for sure.

[Greatness]

I'm surprised more people aren't pointing out that the Heat without LeBron are still the 2nd seed in the West and the Thunder without Durant would probably either miss or barely make it into the playoffs.

[Colbinii]

I'm surprised more people aren't pointing out that the Heat without LeBron are still the 2nd seed in the East and the Thunder without Durant would probably either miss or barely make it into the playoffs.

Even with Wade resting so much? I mean, if they had '11 Wade, then I could see this team being a top 2 seed out East, but the fact that Wade has missed so much there is no way they would even be a top 4 team in the West.

So again, like all of your subtle jabs at LeBron, what evidence do you have to back up your floorless claim?

[Greatness]

I love the hypocrisy. First the notion is that the Heat get to play in the terrible East boosting their record while Durant gets to play in the much tougher West. Now the Heat would still be a top 2 team in that same Western conference without their best player? Which one is it?

[KING JAMES1978]

Seeing the votes now at the topic make me to think how difficult would be for the Voters at the end of the season.
This is maybe the greatest MVP Race of all time.By far the two best players in the game fight for the MVP.

[hisairness]

I love the hypocrisy. First the notion is that the Heat get to play in the terrible East boosting their record while Durant gets to play in the much tougher West. Now the Heat would still be a top 2 team in that same Western conference without their best player? Which one is it?

I can see why you might think it's hypocrisy but those two notions are not mutually exclusive. The heat do play in a weaker conference and they are talented enough w/out Lebron to still be a good team w/out Lebron. That's not hypocritical. Having said that I do hope that poster made a mistake and meant to say "East" bcuz Lebron-less Heat no way in hell are a 2nd seed in the West, I think they might make playoffs.

[rcontador]

Also, NBA.com uses something called PIE rather than PER. The higher the number, the better. Durant's is 20.9% for the year. For February, it was 19.2. In January it was 23.9. Which is to say, Durant regressed considerably in February from both January and his season average in PIE.

snip

LeBron PIE for the year = 20.4%. In January it was 17.2. In February, it was 22.0.

snip

Durant Jan > LeBron Jan
LeBron Feb > Durant Feb

This is definitely true. But by your stats we also have

Durant Jan > Lebron Feb
Durant Feb > Lebron Jan
Durant season > Lebron season

PER and WS/48 agree.

Add in the fact that Durant carried the team without Westbrook and I don't see how Lebron could get the award if the season ended today. He doesn't have a single argument.

Of course that could change in the next 25 games.

[PCProductions]

I'm surprised more people aren't pointing out that the Heat without LeBron are still the 2nd seed in the East and the Thunder without Durant would probably either miss or barely make it into the playoffs.

This argument was used last year for Carmelo, and is a very, very ignorant way to evaluate "value". Ever heard of diminishing returns?

[Joao Saraiva]

LeBron.

Right now Heat have a better winning % so I'll assume they have the best record in the end of the season.

Stats are almost the same. KD goes ahead on PPG and WS, LeBron on APG and on ts%.

On H2H games LeBron got a little outplayed by KD, and outplayed KD by a lot on the 2nd.

The Westbrook out argument is good but the Heat without Wade have now a better winning % than OKC without Westbrook so...

I say LeBron. They're basically equal so I let team record decide.

[Joao Saraiva]

Also, NBA.com uses something called PIE rather than PER. The higher the number, the better. Durant's is 20.9% for the year. For February, it was 19.2. In January it was 23.9. Which is to say, Durant regressed considerably in February from both January and his season average in PIE.

snip

LeBron PIE for the year = 20.4%. In January it was 17.2. In February, it was 22.0.

snip

Durant Jan > LeBron Jan
LeBron Feb > Durant Feb

This is definitely true. But by your stats we also have

Durant Jan > Lebron Feb
Durant Feb > Lebron Jan
Durant season > Lebron season

PER and WS/48 agree.

Add in the fact that Durant carried the team without Westbrook and I don't see how Lebron could get the award if the season ended today. He doesn't have a single argument.

Of course that could change in the next 25 games.

Yeah that plus 0.1 PER Durant has is really a good argument. Do you want to talk ts% now?

If Durant was so much better than LeBron why do stats suggest they're having the same kind of season? You can hate all you want but you can't lie about stats. They're numbers, deal with it.