WojOfficial: Adrien Payne to Minnesota for a 2017 1st

[LoyalKing]

Honestly, another moronic trade by Minny. If wasting picks could give them a title, they would have passed Boston already.

Funniest thing to me is that Minny fans still keep defending those moves, even though they make absolutely no sense, just like Thad's move.

If one Hawks fan had opened a thread about trading Payne for Minny's 2017 1st round pick, I can guarantee you that Minny fans would shut it down.

For a 24 y/o senior, this dude was really underwhelming in the SL. The Hawks won this trade by far !

[Merc_Porto]

Honestly, another moronic trade by Minny. If wasting picks could give them a title, they would have passed Boston already.

Funniest thing to me is that Minny fans still keep defending those moves, even though they make absolutely no sense, just like Thad's move.

If one Hawks fan had opened a thread about trading Payne for Minny's 2017 1st round pick, I can guarantee you that Minny fans would shut it down.

For a 24 y/o senior, this dude was really underwhelming in the SL. The Hawks won this trade by far !

Time will tell.
Flip Saunders is doing a good job finding talent in the draft.

Dieng / Shabazz / Lavine

I really don't see the problem with the pick.

Is the 15th 2014 pick for the (15-30) in (2017/2018/2019)

Under 15th is protected.

[R-DAWG]

I think it's a smart trade for Atlanta. A first round pick who doesn't play loses value as the years on his contract get shorter and he gets older. Atlanta has a lot more flexibility with the 1st rd pick. Wouldn't be surprised to see that pick flipped for a veteran as they move towards a playoff run.

As for Minnesota I really liked Payne as a prospect coming into the draft and stretch 4's are valuable commodities in the league. Minnesota has assembled some nice young talent (only mistake being trading a 1st rd pick for a year of Thad Young).

[shrink]

I thought I'd share a couple local notes from MIN that you may not have heard nationally:

1. Flip really liked Payne in the draft, and almost took him over LaVine at #13. He eventually decided on LaVine because he wanted to swing for the home run, rather than take the double. Payne was drafted #15.

2. With the success of last year's picks, Dieng and Shabazz, Flip has a lot of confidence in his new staff developing players. Maybe it takes a year, but this a shocking change for Wolves fans.

3. Gary Neal is not reporting to MIN because of a "previously scheduled personal reason."

4. Wolves pregame announcer Kevin Lynch said to be expect further trades before the deadline.

[Texas Chuck]

4. Wolves pregame announcer Kevin Lynch said to be expect further trades before the deadline.

Thad is the obvious guy. I keep hearing conflicting reports out of Minny on Martin. Rumors of them shopping him and rumors that they love him and want to keep him. My guess would be he's available if they get value, but they won't trade him just to trade him.

But I'm curious about your expectations of what moves they might potentially be looking to make.

[Golabki]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

Payne is also kind of the same role as Bennett... not a great sign that Flip is holding out hope.

[Golabki]

Honestly, another moronic trade by Minny. If wasting picks could give them a title, they would have passed Boston already.

Funniest thing to me is that Minny fans still keep defending those moves, even though they make absolutely no sense, just like Thad's move.

If one Hawks fan had opened a thread about trading Payne for Minny's 2017 1st round pick, I can guarantee you that Minny fans would shut it down.

For a 24 y/o senior, this dude was really underwhelming in the SL. The Hawks won this trade by far !

Time will tell.
Flip Saunders is doing a good job finding talent in the draft.

Dieng / Shabazz / Lavine

I really don't see the problem with the pick.

Is the 15th 2014 pick for the (15-30) in (2017/2018/2019)

Under 15th is protected.

I agree it's not a terrible trade, but what happens if the Wolves miss the playoffs for the next 3 years?

[MotownMadness]

Good deal for the Wolves in my opinion.

[buckboy]

Payne really isn't very good. Getting a 1st for him reverses Atlanta's initial mistake.

[HartfordWhalers]

Honestly, another moronic trade by Minny. If wasting picks could give them a title, they would have passed Boston already.

Funniest thing to me is that Minny fans still keep defending those moves, even though they make absolutely no sense, just like Thad's move.

If one Hawks fan had opened a thread about trading Payne for Minny's 2017 1st round pick, I can guarantee you that Minny fans would shut it down.

For a 24 y/o senior, this dude was really underwhelming in the SL. The Hawks won this trade by far !

Time will tell.
Flip Saunders is doing a good job finding talent in the draft.

Dieng / Shabazz / Lavine

I really don't see the problem with the pick.

Is the 15th 2014 pick for the (15-30) in (2017/2018/2019)

Under 15th is protected.

I agree it's not a terrible trade, but what happens if the Wolves miss the playoffs for the next 3 years?

His details were wrong. The pick can also be conveyed in 2020 (and almost is statistically eliminated from being conveyed in 2017 already) so really you are talking about the Wolves missing the playoffs all the way through and including 2020.

[theatlfan]

His details were wrong. The pick can also be conveyed in 2020 (and almost is statistically eliminated from being conveyed in 2017 already) so really you are talking about the Wolves missing the playoffs all the way through and including 2020.

Are you sure this is true?

This has been one of my big questions since this deal has gone down. Now, yes, the pick to BOS is top 12 protected this year and next and it would take a near miracle for the pick to break 13 this season - I don't question that. Further, I understand that if MIN bounces back in '15-'16 and draft 13th or higher, then BOS gets the 1st and Stepien's rule comes into play so we couldn't receive MIN's pick until '18 at the earliest. These two scenarios are clear to me.

There is a 3rd scenario though and it's actually the most likely in my mind: what if MIN drafts top 12 both of the next two seasons? Then BOS would get their '16 and '17 2nd round pick, sure, but wouldn't that 17 1st be eligible to be traded? MIN wouldn't have conveyed a 1st round pick to BOS so Stepien's rule wouldn't apply... or would it?

[HartfordWhalers]

His details were wrong. The pick can also be conveyed in 2020 (and almost is statistically eliminated from being conveyed in 2017 already) so really you are talking about the Wolves missing the playoffs all the way through and including 2020.

Are you sure this is true?

This has been one of my big questions since this deal has gone down. Now, yes, the pick to BOS is top 12 protected this year and next and it would take a near miracle for the pick to break 13 this season - I don't question that. Further, I understand that if MIN bounces back in '15-'16 and draft 13th or higher, then BOS gets the 1st and Stepien's rule comes into play so we couldn't receive MIN's pick until '18 at the earliest. These two scenarios are clear to me.

There is a 3rd scenario though and it's actually the most likely in my mind: what if MIN drafts top 12 both of the next two seasons? Then BOS would get their '16 and '17 2nd round pick, sure, but wouldn't that 17 1st be eligible to be traded? MIN wouldn't have conveyed a 1st round pick to BOS so Stepien's rule wouldn't apply... or would it?

I asked this as a question earlier, because in theory it could right? However, when Philly was in that situation, it did not revert back to a 2017 pick, even though Stepien wouldn't be violated in hindsight, so my default was I thought it couldn't but didn't have a firm basis for that.

However, enter: http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/ ... s/detailed answers the question

2017 first round draft pick to Atlanta
Minnesota's 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections in 1-14 in 2017 (conveyable only if Minnesota conveys a 1st round pick to Boston in 2015), 1-14 in 2018, 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if Minnesota has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Atlanta by 2020, then Minnesota will instead convey its 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-Minnesota, 2/10/2015]

So, it seems crystal clear here that it cannot be 2017 (and I stick to my guess that this convention is a league forced one, although who knows?)

[LApwnd]

4. Wolves pregame announcer Kevin Lynch said to be expect further trades before the deadline.

Thad is the obvious guy. I keep hearing conflicting reports out of Minny on Martin. Rumors of them shopping him and rumors that they love him and want to keep him. My guess would be he's available if they get value, but they won't trade him just to trade him.

But I'm curious about your expectations of what moves they might potentially be looking to make.

if they don't get a 1st back or a young player with decent upside, Minn failed that Thad trade.

[Texas Chuck]

4. Wolves pregame announcer Kevin Lynch said to be expect further trades before the deadline.

Thad is the obvious guy. I keep hearing conflicting reports out of Minny on Martin. Rumors of them shopping him and rumors that they love him and want to keep him. My guess would be he's available if they get value, but they won't trade him just to trade him.

But I'm curious about your expectations of what moves they might potentially be looking to make.

if they don't get a 1st back or a young player with decent upside, Minn failed that Thad trade.

Pretty sure I already covered this(and maybe even in this very thread) but you simply can't be that results oriented in your thinking. Moves can be perfectly good at the time that end up not working out. Let me give the best example I can think of:

Following Dallas' title Dallas decided not to re-sign a number of key free agents. In the course of that they acquired a large TPE by agreeing to a S&T and then cashed in that TPE along with a heavily protected 1st rounder for Lamar Odom.

Dallas desperately needed a player of Odom's caliber and couldn't beat the price. Now Odom flamed out horribly in Dallas meaning we gave up a pick for a player who was a negative both on and off the court. BUT AT THE TIME it was great value for Dallas.

The Wolves had a clear direction in mind this year of developing all those young talented players by mixing in some solid veterans(Thad, Pek, Martin, Rubio) thus allowing the team to still function as a legit NBA team. Nobody would be asked to do too much too soon, they would develop good habits, etc.... Then everyone got hurt and all those kids couldn't compete in the toughest conference maybe in the history of the NBA.

Doesn't mean the plan was bad. Stuff happens. Life has variance. If I can get all your chips into the middle pre-flop when I hold AA it was always the right decision even though sometimes you will win all the money.

[LApwnd]

Doesn't mean the plan was bad. Stuff happens. Life has variance. If I can get all your chips into the middle pre-flop when I hold AA it was always the right decision even though sometimes you will win all the money.

the odom example is good as far as your AA analogy, but Thad is not. Thad was not going to take them to another lvl, his #'s were somewhat inflated with a bad Phi team and he had a lot of weakness that got exposed even more as Phi lacked talent. I recall Minn fan saying that getting Thad was to keep them in the hunt for the playoffs, I don't think they would be any closer then the year before even without the injuries. I don't know where the 1st they gave up will be but Minn was rebuilding and one Thad wasn't the difference from where they were the year before to this year. Your poker analogy to Thad would be more like holding suited Jack/10 and hope you hit some sort in middle between a flush or straight.

[Mattya]

Honestly, another moronic trade by Minny. If wasting picks could give them a title, they would have passed Boston already.

Funniest thing to me is that Minny fans still keep defending those moves, even though they make absolutely no sense, just like Thad's move.

If one Hawks fan had opened a thread about trading Payne for Minny's 2017 1st round pick, I can guarantee you that Minny fans would shut it down.

For a 24 y/o senior, this dude was really underwhelming in the SL. The Hawks won this trade by far !

Time will tell.
Flip Saunders is doing a good job finding talent in the draft.

Dieng / Shabazz / Lavine

I really don't see the problem with the pick.

Is the 15th 2014 pick for the (15-30) in (2017/2018/2019)

Under 15th is protected.

There isn't a problem. If a Hawks fan came to the Wolves board and offered Payne for a lotto protected first that turned into second rounders I don't see why we would have shut it down. the agendas here are funny.

[LoyalKing]

Honestly, another moronic trade by Minny. If wasting picks could give them a title, they would have passed Boston already.

Funniest thing to me is that Minny fans still keep defending those moves, even though they make absolutely no sense, just like Thad's move.

If one Hawks fan had opened a thread about trading Payne for Minny's 2017 1st round pick, I can guarantee you that Minny fans would shut it down.

For a 24 y/o senior, this dude was really underwhelming in the SL. The Hawks won this trade by far !

Time will tell.
Flip Saunders is doing a good job finding talent in the draft.

Dieng / Shabazz / Lavine

I really don't see the problem with the pick.

Is the 15th 2014 pick for the (15-30) in (2017/2018/2019)

Under 15th is protected.

There isn't a problem. If a Hawks fan came to the Wolves board and offered Payne for a lotto protected first that turned into second rounders I don't see why we would have shut it down. the agendas here are funny.

Except that it's a protected pick. If you're assuming that your team will never develop into a playoff team for the next 5 years with Rubio/Wiggins/Lavine/Shabazz/Dieng, then I suppose it's a good deal

[loserX]

I said this in another thread: if that Minnesota pick becomes two 2nds in 2020, that means the Timberwolves will have set the record for the longest playoff drought in NBA history.

I really, really doubt Taylor is going to let that happen. Barring tremendous misfortune or disastrous mismanagement for another decade, that team will push to make the playoffs. Whether I was Minnesota or Atlanta (or any other team), I would count on that pick being a first rounder, though who knows what exact year.

[Mattya]

Time will tell.
Flip Saunders is doing a good job finding talent in the draft.

Dieng / Shabazz / Lavine

I really don't see the problem with the pick.

Is the 15th 2014 pick for the (15-30) in (2017/2018/2019)

Under 15th is protected.

There isn't a problem. If a Hawks fan came to the Wolves board and offered Payne for a lotto protected first that turned into second rounders I don't see why we would have shut it down. the agendas here are funny.

Except that it's a protected pick. If you're assuming that your team will never develop into a playoff team for the next 5 years with Rubio/Wiggins/Lavine/Shabazz/Dieng, then I suppose it's a good deal

If you think I'm going to be mad if we make the playoffs and give up a pick 15 and after in the next 5 years for this year's 15th pick you would be wrong. People were calling Shabazz a bust this time last year. If some team would have made this same deal for him with all the negative reactions, they would be laughing right now. I'll wait to see how Payne plays before I judge him so I don't make some idiotic claim like the people last year with Shabazz.

[Domejandro]

There isn't a problem. If a Hawks fan came to the Wolves board and offered Payne for a lotto protected first that turned into second rounders I don't see why we would have shut it down. the agendas here are funny.

Except that it's a protected pick. If you're assuming that your team will never develop into a playoff team for the next 5 years with Rubio/Wiggins/Lavine/Shabazz/Dieng, then I suppose it's a good deal

God forbid we give up a number twenty pick, haha. It really is not a big deal, the pick is not a major value.