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Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4)

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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#61 » by Revived » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:26 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Ironically, you just made a nice argument why it would be good to have two guards who can handle the ball and run the offense...a SG who can only shoot isn't worth a whole lot unless he can REALLY shoot from the outside...you can count those guys on one hand. A guy like JJ Redick is kind of useless if his shot isn't falling....and if you read my post earlier about how him and the rest of the supporting cast went cold last year in the Houston series in games 5-7 than you can understand why he isn't good.

The funny thing is, most 2 guards people consider "stars" are guys that are the primary ball handlers, so they are not traditional shooting guards, but actually act more as a PG. Most of the PGs that played with Jordan mostly became spot up shooters.

But I would love to have a great shooter at the 2 spot...a guy that could shoot like Curry or Korver but those guys are pretty rare..I'm hoping Booker can become that in the future.

I've never disagreed with that. If you look at the best SGs in the NBA, most of them can handle the ball. Harden, Butler, Klay, Wade, Oladipo, Beal etc.

I have an issue with putting ball dominant PGs who are useless without the ball in their hands at SG. And I have a bigger issue with the "let one of the two guards dribble the hell out of the ball in an iso while the rest of the players stand still and watch" offense system.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#62 » by letsgosuns » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:30 am

bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I heard McDonough on the radio yesterday. Gambo asked about Markieff's shooting percentage and how he is not playing that well. All McDonough talked about was Markieff's plus/minus being so great and that he expects Markieff to have a significantly higher shooting percentage in the future. I really could not listen to it without thinking what a joke. It was disappointing. Markieff is playing like garbage yet McDonough keeps saying how great he is. Does he think fans are complete idiots? And if McDonough is so obsessed with the plus/minus statistic, why didn't he keep Channing Frye? Didn't Frye have the best plus/minus on the team in 2013-14? I think he did if I remember correctly.


Dude, Markieff is playing like **** but part of the reason his +/- is so much better is because we don't have many other options at that position. Leuer is a nice guy to come in off the bench and hit some shots. I enjoy his play this year more than Markieff's.

But most of us know Markieff has the ability to play well and sometimes really well, and particularly in clutch moments.

And you have got to be kidding me if you think a GM is going to go on a radio show and talk about how Kieff sucks. Of course he's going to talk him up, especially if he is trying to trade him. But regardless, there is zero upside to talking about how bad he is playing. Stuff gets back to players.

I expect Kieff to start shooting better too. He's had a slow start. I know many think he is trying to suck but I seriously doubt that will be the case going forward.


This is not about McDonough going on the radio and bashing Markieff deliberately or saying he is playing awful. What it is about is that he did not really acknowledge that Markieff is playing poorly. He virtually side-stepped the question. I am tired of hearing all the stuff that McDonough says and the amount of excuses he is making for everything. Like they asked him about the game against the Pistons where they played badly and then the game against the Thunder where they were blown out. McDonough then said well what about the game against the Kings where the Suns won by 20. I was listening and thinking what, you destroy a horrible Kings team that did not even have its best player? That is what you want to talk about. After the interview Gambo and his partner made jokes saying oh sorry we forgot about that win against a Cousins-less Kings team. How could we ever forget that. It was ridiculous.

Anyway, Gambo mentioned today that he feels the interviews with McDonough recently have been a little bit intense and that McDonough is feeling immense pressure to make the playoffs this year. I do not think McDonough likes Gambo now after what happened over the offseason. Seems like the interviews this year have been a little contentious.

Btw, Hornacek is doing the same excuse making stuff every time the Suns play bad. Saying things like oh if we made some of those missed layups we would have been winning at halftime or oh we did not have good enough focus. I hate that line of thinking. Just take responsibility for once as a coach and say it was my fault we screwed up. I should have prepared them better. You are the coach so stop blaming everyone else but yourself.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#63 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:32 am

SF88 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ironically, you just made a nice argument why it would be good to have two guards who can handle the ball and run the offense...a SG who can only shoot isn't worth a whole lot unless he can REALLY shoot from the outside...you can count those guys on one hand. A guy like JJ Redick is kind of useless if his shot isn't falling....and if you read my post earlier about how him and the rest of the supporting cast went cold last year in the Houston series in games 5-7 than you can understand why he isn't good.

The funny thing is, most 2 guards people consider "stars" are guys that are the primary ball handlers, so they are not traditional shooting guards, but actually act more as a PG. Most of the PGs that played with Jordan mostly became spot up shooters.

But I would love to have a great shooter at the 2 spot...a guy that could shoot like Curry or Korver but those guys are pretty rare..I'm hoping Booker can become that in the future.

I've never disagreed with that. If you look at the best SGs in the NBA, most of them can handle the ball. Harden, Butler, Klay, Wade, Oladipo, Beal etc.

I have an issue with putting ball dominant PGs who are useless without the ball in their hands at SG. And I have a bigger issue with the "let one of the two guards dribble the hell out of the ball in an iso while the rest of the players stand still and watch" offense system.


Definitely agree there. We had better ball movement with one pg. Hopefully the passing improves, but that stuff usually improves when guys develop chemistry. When we trade a half our team every six months it's not easy to develop chemistry.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#64 » by kennydorglas » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:34 am

bwgood77 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
SF88 wrote:I don't know if you count FG % as advanced stats or box score but both Knight and Kieff are equally pathetic in that regard if it's any consolation.

Paul George has .7% better FG% than Knight, John Wall and Andrew Wiggins 1.5% worse than Knight, Danilo Gallinari is 1.7% worse, Kevin Love and Boogie are 1.0% worse, Gordon Hayward is .8% worse, CP3 is .3% worse. James Harden has a 1.7% better FG% than Kieff. All the players not on our team are just "having a slow start to the season", our players are "pathetic in that regard"......


Most guards don't shoot that well unless most of their shots are at the rim. I mean even guys like Kobe usually shoot in the low 40s...Melo...many stars don't shoot well. I don't expect guards to shoot THAT high of % from the outside, which is why if you ARE going to shoot from the outside, I'd rather it be a 3 than a long 2. Knight mostly just needs to learn two things. How to be more efficient...drive or shoot 3s and how not to turn the ball over. You can always improve on defense, no matter who you are.


Yeah, if you arent a natural slasher, it takes some time to understand how to use it in the right way.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#65 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:41 am

letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I heard McDonough on the radio yesterday. Gambo asked about Markieff's shooting percentage and how he is not playing that well. All McDonough talked about was Markieff's plus/minus being so great and that he expects Markieff to have a significantly higher shooting percentage in the future. I really could not listen to it without thinking what a joke. It was disappointing. Markieff is playing like garbage yet McDonough keeps saying how great he is. Does he think fans are complete idiots? And if McDonough is so obsessed with the plus/minus statistic, why didn't he keep Channing Frye? Didn't Frye have the best plus/minus on the team in 2013-14? I think he did if I remember correctly.


Dude, Markieff is playing like **** but part of the reason his +/- is so much better is because we don't have many other options at that position. Leuer is a nice guy to come in off the bench and hit some shots. I enjoy his play this year more than Markieff's.

But most of us know Markieff has the ability to play well and sometimes really well, and particularly in clutch moments.

And you have got to be kidding me if you think a GM is going to go on a radio show and talk about how Kieff sucks. Of course he's going to talk him up, especially if he is trying to trade him. But regardless, there is zero upside to talking about how bad he is playing. Stuff gets back to players.

I expect Kieff to start shooting better too. He's had a slow start. I know many think he is trying to suck but I seriously doubt that will be the case going forward.


This is not about McDonough going on the radio and bashing Markieff deliberately or saying he is playing awful. What it is about is that he did not really acknowledge that Markieff is playing poorly. He virtually side-stepped the question. I am tired of hearing all the stuff that McDonough says and the amount of excuses he is making for everything. Like they asked him about the game against the Pistons where they played badly and then the game against the Thunder where they were blown out. McDonough then said well what about the game against the Kings where the Suns won by 20. I was listening and thinking what, you destroy a horrible Kings team that did not even have its best player? That is what you want to talk about. After the interview Gambo and his partner made jokes saying oh sorry we forgot about that win against a Cousins-less Kings team. How could we ever forget that. It was ridiculous.

Anyway, Gambo mentioned today that he feels the interviews with McDonough recently have been a little bit intense and that McDonough is feeling immense pressure to make the playoffs this year. I do not think McDonough likes Gambo now after what happened over the offseason. Seems like the interviews this year have been a little contentious.

Btw, Hornacek is doing the same excuse making stuff every time the Suns play bad. Saying things like oh if we made some of those missed layups we would have been winning at halftime or oh we did not have good enough focus. I hate that line of thinking. Just take responsibility for once as a coach and say it was my fault we screwed up. I should have prepared them better. You are the coach so stop blaming everyone else but yourself.


I wish Sarver wouldn't put so much pressure on everyone. I think this is what keeps us in that middle ground. He is too demanding. He makes SO many changes SO often that we can NEVER develop chemistry.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#66 » by Revived » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:43 am

Jamal Crawford is apparently starting...he's having a pretty horrific season, we should probably double off him to help on Griffin.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#67 » by Jdiddy701 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:57 am

No Chris Paul.


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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#68 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:01 am

SF88 wrote:Jamal Crawford is apparently starting...he's having a pretty horrific season, we should probably double off him to help on Griffin.


Not sure how much Knight would help on Griffin and I'd hate to see Crawford get hot. I know you seem to expect to win this game, but these few days off it might take us a while to get going...hope not...and I imagine they will come hungry for a win and a little pissed after losing to the Mavs and three of four.

It's time we got a win though. Please.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#69 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:09 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:No Chris Paul.


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Do you go to every Suns game?
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#70 » by SunsRback4Good » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:10 am

"The Phoenix Suns caught a huge break for their game against the Los Angeles Clippers on Thursday.

The Clippers will be without their starting backcourt on Thursday as J.J. Redick and Chris Paul are both out, the OC Register's Dan Woike reports."
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#71 » by SunsRback4Good » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:13 am

Yeah I know my comment was literally 15 minutes late as I just saw the news on my thescore app.

We need to come out strongay tonight. No reason to lose this without Clippers back court playing.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#72 » by MrMiyagi » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:13 am

SF88 wrote:He's in the same category as Gallo maybe even higher than Gallo, I think he's in the same category as Hayward even though Hayward is somewhat better than him overall imo. Wiggins I respectfully disagree. I don't like the Knight is young argument because that only works IMO when a player is 2 or 3 years in the league. If you told me that about Goodwin or Warren, I'm open ears. Knight may only be 23 but he's been in the NBA for a while now. He has the same looking down while dribbling and bad shot selection issues that plagued him in Detroit and Milwaukke. He's a really nice kid and a really coachable kid based on what I've seen but for what ever reason, the coaches haven't been able to get through to him.

He has one really good game then like 2-3 bad ones. He's due for a good game tonight and I think he'll hopefully go off especially with Redick out.

I agree with you about Kieff being a bench big. I said it all last season that Kieff should play the Lakers Lamar Odom role for us, nothing more. At his best he may be an average rebounder and defender but at his usual self, he's terrible in both categories imo. Wall and Beal showed signs of promise and Wall is a really good distributor and makes teammates better, same with Steph. We can't quite say that about Knight/Bledsoe even though I'm liking Bledsoe's game from an overall standpoint this season.


Here's what I see with Knight, he's got good skills, but he has a lot of bad habits. He's never really had a good coach (Lawrence Frank and Larry Drew? Kidd's been okay so far, but jury's still out), and the longest he's been with a team for 2 years. All the players we're talking about have had consistency for multiple years in a row. I hope we keep Knight for the length of his contract (insert joke about "we'll have to, no one will want it!").

Let me just ask, how many guys averaging around 18/4/4 this season would you consider to be "bad players?" Let me throw out some names: Kyle Lowry, Jeff Teague, Reggie Jackson, CJ McCollum, Evan Fournier, Jimmy Butler, Rudy Gay, Dwyane Wade, Marcus Thornton, Eric Gordon. Marcus Thornton is probably the one that sticks out, and he's never averaged more than 4 rebounds, 3 assists per game for an entire season season and only had 1 year averaging more than 14 PPG. Bad players don't average 17/4/4 for 3 seasons in a row. They just don't. And maybe he's not a lead guard, like he's been forced to be his whole career until now. I think he has the skills to be a really good off-ball player, but he needs time to learn how to move without the ball and not dribble when he has an open look.

It's still early in the season, he's shown flashes of how good he can be, let's see if he can consistently be that good. That being said, it's on Hornacek to start breaking his bad habits, and if they persist, I suggest we look for a new coach. This is year 3 for Horny, time for him to prove how good a coach he is or isn't. Luke Walton may be getting the benefit of subbing in for the champs, but he's been doing a pretty good job with the Warriors, I think we'll give him a good hard look next offseason if Horny is disappointing this year. Don't want to be overly homer, but I could see us being Golden State-lite with the core guys we have. No Bled and Knight aren't the shooters Klay and Steph are, but I think if they get a system with sets to get open looks instead of fighting for their own shot in isos would do them good.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#73 » by MrMiyagi » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:14 am

JellyRolling wrote:Yeah I know my comment was literally 15 minutes late as I just saw the news on my thescore app.

We need to come out strongay tonight. No reason to lose this without Clippers back court playing.

Yes, we need some man-love to weird out the Clippers :wink:
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#74 » by SunsRback4Good » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:21 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
JellyRolling wrote:Yeah I know my comment was literally 15 minutes late as I just saw the news on my thescore app.

We need to come out strongay tonight. No reason to lose this without Clippers back court playing.

Yes, we need some man-love to weird out the Clippers :wink:


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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#75 » by grumpysaddle » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:22 am

Just turned on the GS/Wolves game. Holy **** Curry is playing out of his ****ing mind this season. 40 points and 7/10 from 3 with 5 minutes to go.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#76 » by MrMiyagi » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:24 am

grumpysaddle wrote:Just turned on the GS/Wolves game. Holy **** Curry is playing out of his ****ing mind this season. 40 points and 7/10 from 3 with 5 minutes to go.

Had 21 in the 1st quarter. He's a monster.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#77 » by SunsRback4Good » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:25 am

Grumpy, he has 21 after 1st quarter. At one point he scored 16 points on just 5 shot attempts.
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#78 » by grumpysaddle » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:27 am

JellyRolling wrote:Grumpy, he has 21 after 1st quarter. At one point he scored 16 points on just 5 shot attempts.


How can anyone argue that he is not the best player in the league (by a pretty large margin)?
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#79 » by Sunsss » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:28 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:Just turned on the GS/Wolves game. Holy **** Curry is playing out of his ****ing mind this season. 40 points and 7/10 from 3 with 5 minutes to go.

Had 21 in the 1st quarter. He's a monster.

Lavine had a lot to do with it, but still...
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Re: Game 8: LA Clippers (5-2) @ Phoenix Suns (3-4) 

Post#80 » by SunsRback4Good » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:28 am

Anyone watching Coyotes? Thry need some lovin too. :(

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