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Jeff Hornacek Fired

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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#61 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:05 pm

SunsFanSSOL wrote:Makes sense to me now why the Suns fired the assistants first. They planned to fire Jeff all along, and planned to either make Gaines or Watson interim HC. Problem is that Longabardi and Sitching were next in line, similar to how Turner and Majerle were next in line for HC in 2012 when Gentry was fired. Suns didn't want any more drama in an already drama filled season where two assistants quit because they feel disrespected.


I think you're spot on with this. I think Watson was the guy they wanted to give a test drive to all along. Now they get a couple month window to see if he should get legit consideration for the full time gig this summer. By firing Jeff now they can also start officially talking to guys like Tibs if they want to go the vet coach route after the season. I actually think Blatt should get another shot somewhere but holy hell it shouldn't be Phoenix. He had a hard time with chemistry in Cleveland and while the suns situation is completely different they can't drop him into this **** storm of a team and risk he can't deal with NBA personalities.

As I stated in an earlier thread Jeff seems like a nice guy and I wish him well in his future endeavors. But this was the right move.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#62 » by pidi » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:11 pm

It was about time..
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#63 » by jcsunsfan » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:17 pm

TASTIC wrote:Just made this...And yes I hope Sarver is the last domino to fall, even though we're basically powerless with him owning the team

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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#64 » by blacksun » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:20 pm

Matt1979 wrote:I agree that the timing is really odd. Hence I think something must be happening behind the scenes we aren't aware of to force their hand.

However I stand by my comment above and am delighted he's gone.


The timing is off, but i completely get your sentiment. He definitely isnt the one to go forward with, with this team. Its amazing how much flak we are getting in the GB for his firing tho. I get that Hornacek is a nice guy and all and that he was the runner up for coach of the year two years ago, but watching the suns these past few years, you cannot deny that he is also responsible for the clusterfk that we're in now. He doesnt deserve not getting blamed.

NBA.com says its between Watson and Bjorkgren for the interim position. Im learning on Bjorkgren. Im curious what you guys think between these two.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#65 » by pidi » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:34 pm

Next step trade away the half team and Tank like noone did before
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#66 » by saintEscaton » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:34 pm

PRAISE THE LORD IT ACTUALLY HAPPEND. I'm actually HORNEY now
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#67 » by jcsunsfan » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:35 pm

What got him fired was that players were no longer listening to him. Its hard to keep their attention when they know the team is tanking. And it is hard to make them listen if mgmt is telling you that you have to play the young players anyway. So a player like Archie just goes off and does his own thing. He even tells the world that he ignored the coach. And the coach gets fired for it.

This was a no win situation for Horny. He needed to play young player with their own agenda less, not more.

Hopefully we don't win a few because of this. No amount of winning now will sell tickets. I hope Sarver realizes this. His best financial bet long term is a top two pick.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#68 » by rsavaj » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:39 pm

This will solve everything.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#69 » by saintEscaton » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:44 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:Ok so Jeff is fired. What is accomplished by this firing? Seriously, what is the end state? The roster of this team is more of a problem than is (was) the coach.

Ryan Mcd should have fired himself while he was doing a firing. There is no coach in the league that can with with the garbage roster. When your best player is a 19 year old rookie, it pretty much means the team is a mess, regardless of his potential.

How is Markieff still on the this team when everyone on planet earth knows he was more of a problem than anyone on the Suns? Basically Ryan Mcd is the cause of this teams failures but Jeff is taking the blame. Ryan pieces together a Kia Rio and tells Jeff to go race in a NASCAR race and be sure to win. That's pretty much what's going on here.

I have zero, ZERO respect for Ryan mcdonough. Other than his first year, the dude has been an epic failure. The only positive thing he can put on his GM resume is he drafted a couple decent players.

I'm not saying Jeff is some kind of great coach, I'm saying no coach would win with this putrid roster.

So again the question remains, what is accomplished with this firing?


I agree Horny was a conveniant scapegoat but now the tables have turned and the FO will be on the hot seat. McDuh has only has year left on his deal so I thought he would be tied to the hip with Horny and go down together but lets see if he will still be on board when we pick a successor. Sarver will probably panic and clean house to start over . Bjorkgren could be the interim because he has a DLeague track record with the youngins and will give them a a longer leas, but Watson looks like a better HC candidate. Most of the blame should be shouldered by McDuh's directionless asset collecting mentality to roster construction and his questionable pesonnel decisions. He really is interpersonally challenged and is not cut out to be a GM, he should go back to being solely a talent evaluator.

I feel the three headed hydra/2 PG gimmick has been forced down Horny's throat. That being said he shouldn't be left of the hook for his inability to cope with the hand he was dealt. Give Pop or Carlisle this sorry squad and the end result in the same.This season is down the gutter but its the manner in which we get blown out by the dregs of the league which is completely demoralizing and unacceptable. He has lost the locker room and appears spineless and commands no respect. Neither a player's coach or a micromanaging disciplinarian, I think he's a glorified shooting/developmental coach who has no coherent system to buy into. Just ISO ball and pseudo-SSOl run n' gun predicated on pushing the pace and breaking down teams in transition. He has terrible half court sets and can't draw up a simple inbounds play to save his life . He picks favorites with vets and puts the youngins in the doghouse for the most minor transgressions and his minute allocation make no sense. During the beginning of the season he had 12 man rotations and it seems as if he's throwing sh*t at the wall in hopes that it sticks
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#70 » by Puff » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:46 pm

letsgosuns wrote:If I had to guess why they chose to fire Hornacek now, it is probably because of his minutes distribution with the young players. You are losing already but to lose the way the Suns have where your young players do not get the majority of the playing time is ridiculous. Len got only 17 minutes against the Knicks and 15 minutes against the Mavericks. Warren had been in Hornacek's dog house recently for supposedly not hustling during one play and was receiving inconsistent playing time. Myself and other posters have said for a while that Booker, Len, and Warren should be playing 30+ minutes every game. Hopefully the new coach goes all in with the young guys 100%. That is what fans want at this point anyway.


I agree with most of this but I think it is more than playing the youngsters. I admit that I am a big believer in the way MDA did things and back his approach to the game for the most part. The one thing that he preached was playing his best 5 or 7 players. It was hard for a lot of us to buy into this because it resulted in a lot of small ball lineups. Well the Warriors did a lot of things well but that was the main reason that they won a championship last year. When they were not getting it done against the Cavs with Bogut at center they put him on the bench. Kerr played and rode his best players to a championship.

Where I am going with this is what I have been complaining about since the beginning of last year. Hornacek has not played the best 5 players IMO since the beginning of last year. I know the Morris twins have their issues but they were in our top 7 last year. I also know the things they said and did, not cool. However, I have and still blame Hornacek for a lot of their on court issues. He had and still had an infatuation with Tucker. Marcus should have been the starter last year with his brother. I know that is not popular, so be it. Marcus is a better player and younger than Tucker, IMO. By not handling that situation properly he basically forced McDonough's hand, and we lost them both. We still have Markieff in body but not mind and I would not be surprised if we keep him. He is one of our top 5 players and under another coach I would not be surprised if he shows it going forward. I may be dead wrong and he could be traded today or in the near future. At this point I just don't see the point in trading him for nothing.

The information on Ish Smith yesterday, not signing with us for far more money than anyone else was offering, tells it all. I expect he wanted no part of being coached by Hornacek. I doubt that he would have had a problem with taking Sarver's money.

Who are our best 5 players (today): Below would be my starting 5

Chandler or Len ????
Markieff
Warren
Booker
Knight (when healthy)

Assuming that we make no trades it will be interesting as to whom the new or interim coach puts on the floor come Tuesday night.

At this point I would not be surprised at anything that happens. I just hope we play and develop our BEST 5-7 players.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#71 » by aIvin adams » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:47 pm

Too bad
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#72 » by BobbieL » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:59 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-steve-nash-be-an-option-for-suns-153646872.html


Mannix, who works with Woj now at Yahoo - speculating Nash could be a part of the future. I would not as head coach.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#73 » by Sunsdeuce » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:05 pm

BobbieL wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-steve-nash-be-an-option-for-suns-153646872.html


Mannix, who works with Woj now at Yahoo - speculating Nash could be a part of the future. I would not as head coach.

Not gonna happen till his kids are 18. He will stay in Cali until then. That's why he took the GS job. Stayed close to his kids.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#74 » by saintEscaton » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:08 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
BobbieL wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-steve-nash-be-an-option-for-suns-153646872.html


Mannix, who works with Woj now at Yahoo - speculating Nash could be a part of the future. I would not as head coach.

Not gonna happen till his kids are 18. He will stay in Cali until then. That's why he took the GS job. Stayed close to his kids.


To be frank, who in their right find would forsake a cozy consultant job with the reigning champs to jump aboard this sinking ship? Nash has repeatedly said that he is not interested in coaching
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#75 » by BobbieL » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:10 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
BobbieL wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-steve-nash-be-an-option-for-suns-153646872.html


Mannix, who works with Woj now at Yahoo - speculating Nash could be a part of the future. I would not as head coach.

Not gonna happen till his kids are 18. He will stay in Cali until then. That's why he took the GS job. Stayed close to his kids.


I am not sure I want the guy for GM and not for Head Coach. So if he stays in Cali- that's fine

I actually, even though the team has had more success without him - maybe a guy like Mark Jackson as long as he has a strong assistant coach. Maybe a guy like Jackson will be the right "leader of men" this team needs.

I know Kerr won GSW a title as head coach but that team had a foundation before he got their and I am guessing Mark Jackson helped build a foundation of how to prepare and act like an NBA player
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#76 » by Sunsdeuce » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:10 pm

saintEscaton wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
BobbieL wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-steve-nash-be-an-option-for-suns-153646872.html


Mannix, who works with Woj now at Yahoo - speculating Nash could be a part of the future. I would not as head coach.

Not gonna happen till his kids are 18. He will stay in Cali until then. That's why he took the GS job. Stayed close to his kids.


To be frank, who in their right find would forsake a cozy consultant job with the reigning champs to jump aboard this sinking ship? Nash has repeatedly said that he is not interested in coaching

Plus this too. Nash isn't coming, just mannix posting click bait.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#77 » by Qwigglez » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:14 pm

blacksun wrote:
Matt1979 wrote:I agree that the timing is really odd. Hence I think something must be happening behind the scenes we aren't aware of to force their hand.

However I stand by my comment above and am delighted he's gone.


The timing is off, but i completely get your sentiment. He definitely isnt the one to go forward with, with this team. Its amazing how much flak we are getting in the GB for his firing tho. I get that Hornacek is a nice guy and all and that he was the runner up for coach of the year two years ago, but watching the suns these past few years, you cannot deny that he is also responsible for the clusterfk that we're in now. He doesnt deserve not getting blamed.

NBA.com says its between Watson and Bjorkgren for the interim position. Im learning on Bjorkgren. Im curious what you guys think between these two.


I'm leaning towards Watson as I can't pronounce the other guys name.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#78 » by Sunsdeuce » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:25 pm

I called Mannix article click bait. I think he got mad at me.

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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#79 » by bwgood77 » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:26 pm

alldayeveryday wrote:I would of liked to see Hornacek till the end of the season. Wish nothing best for coach.

(I really really really REALLY hate SARVER)

Sports never gets to me but the Suns are just toying with my emotions because of our **** owner. :oops:

Do. Not. Hire. David. Blatt.

Lets go after someone who is all about D first and let the rest take care of itself.


Yes, I just REALLY hope we make the RIGHT hire. We CANNOT mess this hire up.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Fired 

Post#80 » by batsmasher » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:27 pm

My initial thoughts on Hornacek being fired:

Why? What about this timing makes sense? This is probably one of the biggest problems I have with Horny being fired. You’re firing a coach whose contract ends this season, then replacing him with a young, recently promoted assistant coach. You’re not trying to win basketball games. You’re trying to develop your youngsters. You really think Horny is going to impede the development of this team? No, you don’t, so why now?

Either:
  • You’ve decided you want to pursue a head coach between now and season’s end (highly unlikely)
  • The personnel changes you’re making between now and the deadline mean you’d rather not have the guys you bring in to get comfy with a coach you plan to fire
  • You’re panicking and need to make some sort of move to please Sarver and save face.
Horny himself:

People look at the 13-14 season where we surprised so many as evidence of how good quality a coach Horny is. I’m not sure I agree with that. Yes, there is some value to making a bunch of misfits hella-overachieve in a speed demon offense. But in reflection it’s possible the team literally just surprised the opposition, unscouted for and underestimated the Slash Bros.

I don’t think there are many doubts over Horny’s offense, it was very pretty and predicated on finding mismatches with fast pace and exploiting those mismatches.

Kieff:
Why does Kieff have so much to do with Horny’s demise? When my friends ask what’s up with the Suns, I say it’s Kieff’s fault. I still think plenty of blame should go to this clown. He was Horny’s most valuable piece to the offense. He played downhill from the top of the key, was an above average passer for his size and had the only low post offense which half of Horny’s offense relies on. We get absolutely none of that this season, and instead couple it with bad defense and buckets of negativity produced by the clown both on and off the court, he left Horny to drown in quicksand.

Speaking of defense, this is probably Horny’s biggest problem. And I believe if he does get another head coaching gig, unless he has a superior defensive player to anchor the defense (a Dwight, a Marc Gasol etc) he’s going to face the exact same problems that he had with his Suns iterations. Even then there’s no guarantees. Alvin Gentry is a fairly similar coach in the way he handles his players AND he has AD, yet, they’re a bottom 5 defense in the league.

Never did he have a team play above average defense and i don’t think he has the capacity to implement a defensive scheme which will change that. He’s a passive coach who is a friend and a mentor more than he is a grumpy dad. And sometimes you need the grumpy dad to get the best out of you. At the start of this season, a few of us thought this team would be a defense first team with PJ, Bled and Chandler starting. Yeah, about that.

Rotations:
I put bad rotations down to (extended) growing pains. However I do give him partial blame for the amount of games this team simply took off (we actually opened our season against the Mavs, at least so I’m told). Again, I put that down to him being passive, not in your face, not brave enough to take this team on and challenge their egos. McD tried to make up for this with Chandler, the guy that was supposed to keep everyone accountable and in line. Instead, this team now has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. If Horny had at least some sort of authority about him I think he could have got even more out of his offense, and perhaps even some effort on D (a big ask, I know).

Where to now?

Well, we need a Sarver pleaser. We need a coach that will actually bring some buzz back to the Suns. MDA, yeah whatever, please no. Blatt? That would cause a fair bit of buzz. Brooks? A bit boring.

Do I agree with the firing?

No not at all. The timing is a minor problem. The fact that you gain absolutely nothing out of firing him is a bigger problem. The fact that you plan to promote an assistant makes even less sense. The fact that you are somehow NOW more convinced that Horny can’t coach, after this team has lost half its guys to injury and been fleeced of its experienced assistants. It. Makes. No. Sense.

Ryan McDonough, you say these last few weeks have been time for self-reflection and that you are your harshest critic. Yet you fail to see the poo-fest you’ve created here and use your handtied coach as the way out of this mess. Except you’re no closer to being out of this mess, and now you have no coach.

Please forgive the dodgy English in places, I’m tired and grumpy (maybe I should be a candidate for the Suns HC).
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