The case AGAINST keeping Millsap

[jayu70]

I have no interest in Sully (injured, fat, no bird rights) or Patterson (27) is meh - and will be looking for a big contract in the offseason.

[Jamaaliver]

I think you'd have to pick between Poeltl and Nogueira due to our own depth issues, but interesting to hear that it's not far off.

Fair enough.


NOTE: There's a strong contingent of folks here who would balk at such a paltry asking price. (And justifiably so.)

But looking at what value ATL has gotten in the past for All Stars Joe Johnson and Jeff Teague, respectively, I'm more likely to accept a lesser deal than allow a player of Millsap's caliber to just walk away without receiving anything in return (a la Josh Smith and AL Horford).

[Jadoogar]

For Millsap? No...not nearly enough.

Maybe Millsap, THJ, Tiago Splitter and a draft pick for Jonas, Demarre and Cory Joseph...MAYBE!

As a neutral (non-Hawks) fan, you're dreaming here. Millsap is a great player but he's 32. You'll never get that much for 1 or 2 good years because after all that's what's left in Millsap.

Best bet is probably to wait for the trade deadline and sell to a contender.

Yeah. You're probably right. I was looking at the trade value OKC got in return for Serge Ibaka a few months back. (Lotto pick and top young player). But, admittedly, Millsap's value has lessened in the last couple of months. Nagging injuries, lowered efficiency, less than a year under contract.

Our Front Office really screwed the pooch again on this. We allowed Josh Smith and AL Horford to leave without getting anything in return. There's a decent chance we do the same with Millsap.

The Orlando trade was pretty stupid at the time it happened. Hennigan is trying to save his job by trading for Ibaka and trying to make the playoffs so he made a pretty dumb trade. It would be unrealistic to think the Raptors (a much better team and GM with no job security issues) would make a similar offer.

[Jamaaliver]

The Orlando trade was pretty stupid at the time it happened. Hennigan is trying to save his job by trading for Ibaka and trying to make the playoffs so he made a pretty dumb trade. It would be unrealistic to think the Raptors (a much better team and GM with no job security issues) would make a similar offer.

Fair enough. Hawks, reportedly, had their chance to fleece ORL earlier this year, but balked:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I do wish we were more cutthroat when it comes to making deals.

I like the Raptors GM very much. Hell, more than I like the coach or players.

His move to get Bebe and Lou Williams for table scraps was a stroke of genius. THAT'S how you take advantage of a desperate GM.

[dlb731]

I saw someone post this on another site...

Milsap

For

IND
Ellis and Young


Thoughts?...

[jayu70]

I saw someone post this on another site...

Milsap

For

IND
Ellis and Young


Thoughts?...

Ellis? as in Monta?
If we are trading Millsap I'd prefer a young player and a pick? Ellis and Thad are just shuffling pieces to me and not going anywhere.

[Jamaaliver]

Brad Rowland over at Peachtree Hoops makes the case that Millsap should be traded for the long-term benefit of the franchise. He argues that the assets acquired in trade would be numerous, even at this late stage. That the team should have taken a similar approach with Horford last season.

Around the 18 minute mark Here

As a credentialed member of the media, Rowland has access to a number of coaches, players and front office persons both on and off the record. His take is that there were indeed hurt feelings from Millsap that he was on the trade block last summer. This, IN HIS OPINION, makes it less likely Paul would re-sign next summer for anything less than a super max deal.






Jeff Schultz, longtime columnist over at AJC also speculates that Millsap could be traded as well:

Millsap is a terrific player and likeable guy. I’m sure his next team is going to like him too, because, his words for public consumption notwithstanding, there’s little to suggest this Hawks’ team, as currently constructed, is going anywhere. With Millsap expected to opt out of his contract after the season, there’s a possibility the Hawks will move him before the trade deadline if they’re not sitting in a prime playoff spot.

Here

[dorkestra]

Question - if someone traded for Millsap now, would it be too late to extend him? Would it just be a one year rental and then re-bidding for him without any advantage in the off-season? Just trying to gauge his value.

[Jamaaliver]

Question - if someone traded for Millsap now, would it be too late to extend him? Would it just be a one year rental and then re-bidding for him without any advantage in the off-season? Just trying to gauge his value.

If I'm not mistaken, Millsap signed a three year deal with an opt out option after two season. This being the second season, he CAN be a Free Agent next summer if he opts out.

But I don't think he can be extended. I'm only modestly familiar with the minutiae of the CBA, though.




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[MaceCase]

Question - if someone traded for Millsap now, would it be too late to extend him? Would it just be a one year rental and then re-bidding for him without any advantage in the off-season? Just trying to gauge his value.

Contracts under 4 years can't be extended under the current CBA, I have no idea of the case under the new one being negotiated but I'd imagine it would be moot as Millsap would already be a free agent when it takes effect. A current advantage a team could gain through a trade are his full-Bird rights as he's played over 3 seasons in Atlanta and that transfers.

[jayu70]

Question - if someone traded for Millsap now, would it be too late to extend him? Would it just be a one year rental and then re-bidding for him without any advantage in the off-season? Just trying to gauge his value.

He cannot be extended. I think the way the CBA reads he is eligible for an extension on the anniversary of the 3rd year of his current contract.

[Jamaaliver]

The chorus is growing louder:

17. Atlanta Hawks (12–12)


Last week: 17
Net Rating: -0.7

Two wins this week is a start, but I wonder at what point it behooves them to shop Paul Millsap, who has another year on his contract and turns 32 in February. I can think of a half-dozen playoff-type teams that would benefit.

Here



It seems an inevitability at this point. I honestly don't even believe bringing PM back helps us become an elite team. So let's get something of value in return for him.

[King_Supreme]

I know you guys want to compete, but the Hawks have been treadmilling for damn near a decade, so it's best to get whatever young players/picks for Millsap. We all know the Hawks will not come out the East, and they're at best a second round team(more likely a 1st round exit). So with that that in mind, why keep Millsap and possibly max him just to keep this treadmill going. Trade him at the deadline, don't make the same mistake like you did with Horford.

[D21]

So in few months, we are going from a project where Howard, Horford and Millsap could have been in the same team, to a project of having Howard only... better get something in return then, because he's our best impact player at the moment, by far :


He's also in top defensive rating and win shares :


And now, instead of re-singing him, we want to trade him because he may want to leave following these trade rumors last summer, being just a result of ATL not able to give 6M more to Horford, as a result of signing Bazemore for a contract he doesn't deserve at all at this moment.

Bazemore singing, at this moment, is on the verge of costing both Horford and Millsap.
It's just a management nightmare season...

[Jamaaliver]

So in few months, we are going from a project where Howard, Horford and Millsap could have been in the same team, to a project of having Howard only...

And now, instead of re-singing him, we want to trade him because he may want to leave following these trade rumors last summer, being just a result of ATL not able to give 6M more to Horford, as a result of signing Bazemore for a contract he doesn't deserve at all at this moment.

Bazemore singing, at this moment, is on the verge of costing both Horford and Millsap.
It's just a management nightmare season...

Bingo. I think this is the fear Hawks Front Office folks must have feared all along and why they were willing to re-sign Horford and trade away Millsap.

Because the alternative (possibly losing both for minimal return) is what we're looking at. And it isn't pretty.

Bazemore is a good kid and a solid role player, but that contract to him was ill advised for a 27 year old with a low ceiling and an unproven track record.

(Especially when we left Demarre walk away for less money the prior summer.)

[jayu70]

So in few months, we are going from a project where Howard, Horford and Millsap could have been in the same team, to a project of having Howard only...

And now, instead of re-singing him, we want to trade him because he may want to leave following these trade rumors last summer, being just a result of ATL not able to give 6M more to Horford, as a result of signing Bazemore for a contract he doesn't deserve at all at this moment.

Bazemore singing, at this moment, is on the verge of costing both Horford and Millsap.
It's just a management nightmare season...

Bingo. I think this is the fear Hawks Front Office folks must have feared all along and why they were willing to re-sign Horford and trade away Millsap.

Because the alternative (possibly losing both for minimal return) is what we're looking at. And it isn't pretty.

Bazemore is a good kid and a solid role player, but that contract to him was ill advised for a 27 year old with a low ceiling and an unproven track record.

(Especially when we left Demarre walk away for less money the prior summer.)

The Hawks didn't let DMC walk because they didn't WANT to pay him - it came down to a choice between him and Millsap - Hawks choose Millsap. The Hawks were not in a position to sign both.

[MaceCase]

People need to learn the difference between "losing" something and letting it go.

[Jamaaliver]

The Hawks didn't let DMC walk because they didn't WANT to pay him - it came down to a choice between him and Millsap - Hawks choose Millsap. The Hawks were not in a position to sign both.

I simply don't believe that. There were other options/avenues to create more cap space.

IIRC, that's how we were able to absorb Tiago's contract in trade. Hawks made the decision to invest more money in the front court as opposed to a limited wing player with a low ceiling.

NOTE: I'm not advocating re-signing Demarre at this point.

[jayu70]

The Hawks didn't let DMC walk because they didn't WANT to pay him - it came down to a choice between him and Millsap - Hawks choose Millsap. The Hawks were not in a position to sign both.

I simply don't believe that. There were other options/avenues to create more cap space.

IIRC, that's how we were able to absorb Tiago's contract in trade. Hawks made the decision to invest more money in the front court as opposed to a limited wing player with a low ceiling.

NOTE: I'm not advocating re-signing Demarre at this point.

We had use capspace if we wanted to bring back BOTH Millsap and DMC based on how much each wanted. We had no full bird right on either player, only early bird. Millsap early bird number was around $12 million, DMC around $6. Millsap signed for $18 mil which was in excess of his early bird which meant we didn't have $15 million in available cap space to sign DMC.
We gave up a 2nd for Tiago, we had the $8 million to absorb Tiago's $8mil. DMC wanted $15 - we would have had to clear at least an additional $7 million in salary to resign DMC - so say good bye to some combination of these 3 players: Mike Scott, Shelvin Mack, Korver, Thabo and Moose. Then fill out the rest of the roster with vet mins and exceptions.
My apologies if the numbers aren't exactly right but I don't have the time or inclination to rehash this.

Yes - we could have gutted the team and brought them both back at their asking price.

Edit:
This explains our cap situation at it relates to DMC and Millsap.

With ~$7.1 million in cap space, the Hawks would be able to offer DeMarre a contract which begins around ~$10.3 million. This is because DeMarre's cap hold can be renounced to clear up more cap space in offering DeMarre a contract. The Hawks could clear up more space by renouncing Pero, which would increase DeMarre's starting salary up to ~$12 million. The Hawks also have non-guaranteed contracts for Mike Muscala and Austin Daye which are for the veteran minimum ($947,276). If the Hawks were to waive one of those players to clear up more cap space, then the Hawks would only free up $422,183 in cap space because they would have fewer than 12 players and cap holds. But it is possible for the Hawks to waive Muscala and Daye to get DeMarre a contract starting around ~$13 million while keeping the Early Bird Rights to Paul Millsap.

Paul signed for more than his early Bird of $16 million because Orlando offered him a max deal - the Hawks matched, there was no money left for DMC

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2015/6/16/8744737/2015-nba-free-agency-demarre-carroll-atlanta-hawks

[Jamaaliver]

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