PG: Bulls stampede Bucks

[thomchatt3rton]

Missed the game. What the hell happened? Somebody summarize this failure for me in a few brief sentences (or more if you like).

I was assuming they might come out flat today- day game against a sup-par opponent etc etc. Was that it?

Actually Giannis came out of the gates and we looked great. Same with Moose.

They switched Butler on to Giannis and he stopped driving and then we changed to the no motion, Middleton ISO ball.

Defense was like the January defense. Just a mess and Chicago was hitting whatever they wanted at will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder what the key is to Giannis having these passive games? I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.

Was the poor D just lack of effort? Or was it something CHI was doing? (or was it just a case of CHI being hot and there was nothing that could be done?)

[freewhitemoon]

Was too ceebs to get up for this one but it seems the team didnt show up either

[VooDoo7]

, and could also have a negative affect on his game.

Missed the game. What the hell happened?

Actually Giannis came out of the gates and we looked great.

They switched Butler on to Giannis and he stopped driving and then we changed to the no motion, Middleton ISO ball.

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder what the key is to Giannis having these passive games? I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.

I really hope this isn't the case, and this is total speculation.

Others have mentioned this in the past, but I wonder if Giannis feels pressure from Kidd and maybe even Mids to get others involved more. If so, I could see how that may make him more passive instead of trying to score himself and being aggressive.

In the past, Kidd has said that all the players are created equal on the team. But in reality, that's BS. Giannis is a star. Kidd needs to embrace that, and his teammates need to realize this too. Everyone should know by now this is Giannis' team. Let him play his game.

Others have also questioned if his teammates have become jealous of him. Who knows if that's true, but if it is, then that's pretty pathetic, and could have a negative affect on his game.

If Giannis' passiveness is 100% on him, then Kidd needs to address that. But this is also the same coach who literally told him he didn't want him shooting any 3's, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[greekbuck34]

Missed the game. What the hell happened? Somebody summarize this failure for me in a few brief sentences (or more if you like).

I was assuming they might come out flat today- day game against a sup-par opponent etc etc. Was that it?

Actually Giannis came out of the gates and we looked great. Same with Moose.

They switched Butler on to Giannis and he stopped driving and then we changed to the no motion, Middleton ISO ball.

Defense was like the January defense. Just a mess and Chicago was hitting whatever they wanted at will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder what the key is to Giannis having these passive games? I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.

Was the poor D just lack of effort? Or was it something CHI was doing? (or was it just a case of CHI being hot and there was nothing that could be done?)

Our defensive scheme was executed perfectly in the first 3 quarters but the Bulls kept hitting their jumpshots and Kidd as always didn't want to adjust his plan.

Butler had the ball and was guarded by Snell. Everytime he tried to attack the rim somebody(Giannis mostly) would go to him for the double team and Butler would make the pass to open Mirotic in the corner or to Lopez for an mid range jumpshot.
This happened over and over again with Butler having like 12-13 assists in 30 minutes of play.
I understand that it's not normal for them to hit 90% of their jumpshots but when somebody is hot you just have to adjust your gameplay.
Kidd wouldn't do it and until the end our defense was collapsing with the exact same way.
Mirotic was red hot(11/13) but even in the 4th quarter Giannis was going for cover in the painted area just like in the beginning.

Giannis in the first quarter was having a party scoring and spreading fouls on everyone. In the second half they switched Butler on him and suddenly Kidd decided(I'm saying decided because he got up and was pointing the play for 2-3 straight possessions) that it's a good idea to freeze Giannis and keep Butler on his back by giving the ball to Giannis in order of passing it to Middleton or Snell or Brogdon after the screens and let them attack the rest of the Bulls defense.

It worked once.... twice.... then Brogdon missed some open lay ups and then Middleton started missing shots and at the same time the Bull kept breaking down our defense with the way I described earlier.

Early in the 4th quarter Kidd rested Giannis but the Bulls kept Butler inside and he destroyed Middleton. It was game over after that.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I was at the game with friends so only half focused but I thought we played well but Lady Luck wasn't on our side. The biggest strategic mistake was leaving mirotic open but rondo was hitting threes and mcw hit runners while our specialists were missing open 3s and brogdon going full blue steel on fast breaks. In a 7 games series we win in 5.

[blazza18]

The scheme is pretty bad when you're hoping for guys to miss open shots.

[Pachinko_]

Generally I can live with Rondo and MCW shooting, but someone should put a hand on Mirotic.
anyway I don't care, I don't want the Raptors in the POs.

[Diggr14]

Didnt Giannis get banged on the right leg in the 1st q. I think after that, he really didnt continue what he was doing early on.

[bigkurty]

Actually Giannis came out of the gates and we looked great. Same with Moose.

They switched Butler on to Giannis and he stopped driving and then we changed to the no motion, Middleton ISO ball.

Defense was like the January defense. Just a mess and Chicago was hitting whatever they wanted at will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder what the key is to Giannis having these passive games? I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.

Was the poor D just lack of effort? Or was it something CHI was doing? (or was it just a case of CHI being hot and there was nothing that could be done?)

Our defensive scheme was executed perfectly in the first 3 quarters but the Bulls kept hitting their jumpshots and Kidd as always didn't want to adjust his plan.

Butler had the ball and was guarded by Snell. Everytime he tried to attack the rim somebody(Giannis mostly) would go to him for the double team and Butler would make the pass to open Mirotic in the corner or to Lopez for an mid range jumpshot.
This happened over and over again with Butler having like 12-13 assists in 30 minutes of play.
I understand that it's not normal for them to hit 90% of their jumpshots but when somebody is hot you just have to adjust your gameplay.
Kidd wouldn't do it and until the end our defense was collapsing with the exact same way.
Mirotic was red hot(11/13) but even in the 4th quarter Giannis was going for cover in the painted area just like in the beginning.

Giannis in the first quarter was having a party scoring and spreading fouls on everyone. In the second half they switched Butler on him and suddenly Kidd decided(I'm saying decided because he got up and was pointing the play for 2-3 straight possessions) that it's a good idea to freeze Giannis and keep Butler on his back by giving the ball to Giannis in order of passing it to Middleton or Snell or Brogdon after the screens and let them attack the rest of the Bulls defense.

It worked once.... twice.... then Brogdon missed some open lay ups and then Middleton started missing shots and at the same time the Bull kept breaking down our defense with the way I described earlier.

Early in the 4th quarter Kidd rested Giannis but the Bulls kept Butler inside and he destroyed Middleton. It was game over after that.

Really solid analysis. Sure they were due for a **** game but this game was also a microcosm of how Kidd has zero ability to make adjustments in game.

[thomchatt3rton]

Actually Giannis came out of the gates and we looked great. Same with Moose.

They switched Butler on to Giannis and he stopped driving and then we changed to the no motion, Middleton ISO ball.

Defense was like the January defense. Just a mess and Chicago was hitting whatever they wanted at will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder what the key is to Giannis having these passive games? I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.

Was the poor D just lack of effort? Or was it something CHI was doing? (or was it just a case of CHI being hot and there was nothing that could be done?)

Our defensive scheme was executed perfectly in the first 3 quarters but the Bulls kept hitting their jumpshots and Kidd as always didn't want to adjust his plan.

Butler had the ball and was guarded by Snell. Everytime he tried to attack the rim somebody(Giannis mostly) would go to him for the double team and Butler would make the pass to open Mirotic in the corner or to Lopez for an mid range jumpshot.
This happened over and over again with Butler having like 12-13 assists in 30 minutes of play.
I understand that it's not normal for them to hit 90% of their jumpshots but when somebody is hot you just have to adjust your gameplay.
Kidd wouldn't do it and until the end our defense was collapsing with the exact same way.
Mirotic was red hot(11/13) but even in the 4th quarter Giannis was going for cover in the painted area just like in the beginning.

Giannis in the first quarter was having a party scoring and spreading fouls on everyone. In the second half they switched Butler on him and suddenly Kidd decided(I'm saying decided because he got up and was pointing the play for 2-3 straight possessions) that it's a good idea to freeze Giannis and keep Butler on his back by giving the ball to Giannis in order of passing it to Middleton or Snell or Brogdon after the screens and let them attack the rest of the Bulls defense.

It worked once.... twice.... then Brogdon missed some open lay ups and then Middleton started missing shots and at the same time the Bull kept breaking down our defense with the way I described earlier.

Early in the 4th quarter Kidd rested Giannis but the Bulls kept Butler inside and he destroyed Middleton. It was game over after that.

Great post! I appreciate the all the detail- I feel like I was there...

[Prickle]

"I really hope this isn't the case, and this is total speculation.

Others have mentioned this in the past, but I wonder if Giannis feels pressure from Kidd and maybe even Mids to get others involved more. If so, I could see how that may make him more passive instead of trying to score himself and being aggressive."


I really don't think this is the case. Because when the Bucks are "on", it's due to them playing unselfish on the offensive end, and always making the extra pass. It was pretty night and day, the difference in how they played when they were rolling for 1 1/2 quarters to how they played the rest of the way. It seems like every time they get into these offensive droughts, they stop doing what worked, and resort to playing ISO ball, which starts the inevitable snowball effect.

If anything is apparent when the Bucks are rolling, it's that they can play "team basketball" AND Giannis can be aggressive and "get his" at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. If anything, the unselfish, passing offense is the key to what opens up Giannis' ISO game.

[Pachinko_]

"I really hope this isn't the case, and this is total speculation.

Others have mentioned this in the past, but I wonder if Giannis feels pressure from Kidd and maybe even Mids to get others involved more. If so, I could see how that may make him more passive instead of trying to score himself and being aggressive."

I really don't think this is the case. Because when the Bucks are "on", it's due to them playing unselfish on the offensive end, and always making the extra pass. It was pretty night and day, the difference in how they played when they were rolling for 1 1/2 quarters to how they played the rest of the way. It seems like every time they get into these offensive droughts, they stop doing what worked, and resort to playing ISO ball, which starts the inevitable snowball effect.

If anything is apparent when the Bucks are rolling, it's that they can play "team basketball" AND Giannis can be aggressive and "get his" at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. If anything, the unselfish, passing offense is the key to what opens up Giannis' ISO game.

It seems to me there's a decision tree: start with the ball in Giannis' hands, if he sees a lane attack it immediately, if not start moving the ball around until someone is open, and if all that fails give it to Mids and move to the side. It makes sense but it can also be confusing at times which might lead to Giannis looking frustrated at times.

If I was going to guess I'd say Giannis is probably happier when he gets 10 points and a W than 30 points and an L.
Also I'd guess that when he can't run and penetrate he hates having to force the issue against set defenses and having to take long twos because he's double teamed, and he'd much rather defer to somebody else. I don't think he feels pressure to involve others, if anything I'd say he is relieved when someone else can help with the scoring (particularly in the half court).

[Prickle]

My takes from this game:

The Bulls put an ass whoopin on the Bucks, but I don't think it should've happened. And I certainly don't buy into the whole "they were due for a bad game" theory. That's just another excuse. That's a loser's mentality, not a logical assessment of what really happened. Jonny Mac is the ring leader when it comes to making excuses, and he had a bagful again tonight. If it wasn't the "due for a letdown" excuse, it was the "hard to come home after a long road trip" or "tough to beat a team 4 straight times" excuses. Thankfully, the Bucks didn't play the night before, because the "back end of a B2B" excuse would've been hammered on again, for sure.

Why is it so hard to acknowledge that the team simply **** the bed in a very winnable game? The team lost because they are their own worst enemy at times. Once again, after coming out of the gates looking sharp and determined, they went into one of their inevitable and patented scoring droughts, accompanied by plenty of the "missed bunnies" that are becoming a concern. And when you consider that no Bull's player not named MCW could miss a shot, it all makes sense. This is the REASON the Bucks lost, no need for an excuse.

The most unfortunate part of this loss, is that it renders one of those huge road wins completely useless. That 4-2 trip just became a 3-3 trip, essentially. Obviously, you can't win them all, but this one stings when you consider how well the Bucks have been playing. Hey, I guess they were just due for a bad game.

[Prickle]

"I really hope this isn't the case, and this is total speculation.

Others have mentioned this in the past, but I wonder if Giannis feels pressure from Kidd and maybe even Mids to get others involved more. If so, I could see how that may make him more passive instead of trying to score himself and being aggressive."

I really don't think this is the case. Because when the Bucks are "on", it's due to them playing unselfish on the offensive end, and always making the extra pass. It was pretty night and day, the difference in how they played when they were rolling for 1 1/2 quarters to how they played the rest of the way. It seems like every time they get into these offensive droughts, they stop doing what worked, and resort to playing ISO ball, which starts the inevitable snowball effect.

If anything is apparent when the Bucks are rolling, it's that they can play "team basketball" AND Giannis can be aggressive and "get his" at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. If anything, the unselfish, passing offense is the key to what opens up Giannis' ISO game.

It seems to me there's a decision tree: start with the ball in Giannis' hands, if he sees a lane attack it immediately, if not start moving the ball around until someone is open, and if all that fails give it to Mids and move to the side. It makes sense but it can also be confusing at times which might lead to Giannis looking frustrated at times.

If I was going to guess I'd say Giannis is probably happier when he gets 10 points and a W than 30 points and an L.
Also I'd guess that when he can't run and penetrate he hates having to force the issue against set defenses and having to take long twos because he's double teamed, and he'd much rather defer to somebody else. I don't think he feels pressure to involve others, if anything I'd say he is relieved when someone else can help with the scoring (particularly in the half court).

I think when it comes to Midds, it's a tough call. He definitely CAN be a force with his ISO post up game, especially those baseline fadeaway jumpers when he's on. The only problem with him right now, is that he's understandably under-conditioned, and it looks like it's caught up with him. He's been logging some hefty minutes for a guy who hasn't played all year. It's been pretty noticeable lately when he's come out looking fresh, but faded rapidly as the game has gone on. If he somehow gets his legs by playoff time, it'll be a minor miracle. But any postseason success for the Bucks may be relying on it.

[worthlessBucks]

Has anybody, even half jokingly, conspired to think this loss is fallout from the end game missed free throw the other night?

If not, doing it now (in the joking manner).

[HKPackFan]

February Midds was on a minute restriction they brought him back slowly. But the entire month of March he's averaged 32 minutes, he's been playing full minutes all month.

I do think the road trip may have worn him out a bit, but he should be in regular season form by now or very soon. He's been playing ball for 2 months total and 4 weeks on a full time basis.

Really I would expect him to be ready to go 100% for the playoffs in 3 weeks and not worry about him having conditioning issues. That's about 11-12 weeks of basketball, and 7 weeks of playing fulltime 32 minutes.

If you compare to a regular season and a player rolled in to training camp after spending an entire summer just eating hot dogs on the couch and not doing a damn thing else, sure I'd expect them to be completely terrible in October, huffin and puffin. And even possibly the first 4 weeks of the season in November, but I'd think the player would be conditioned by Christmas.

[Pachinko_]

no man I don't think it works like that, if you dont put in the hours in Aug/Sep it catches up with you towards the end of the season.
Khris did his summer training but then all those months of sitting on his ass must have cancelled it

[HKPackFan]

no man I don't think it works like that, if you dont put in the hours in Aug/Sep it catches up with you towards the end of the season.
Khris did his summer training but then all those months of sitting on his ass must have cancelled it

OK. I guess I'm thinking old school style. Or OJ Mayo style.

[Prickle]

February Midds was on a minute restriction they brought him back slowly. But the entire month of March he's averaged 32 minutes, he's been playing full minutes all month.

I do think the road trip may have worn him out a bit, but he should be in regular season form by now or very soon. He's been playing ball for 2 months total and 4 weeks on a full time basis.

Really I would expect him to be ready to go 100% for the playoffs in 3 weeks and not worry about him having conditioning issues. That's about 11-12 weeks of basketball, and 7 weeks of playing fulltime 32 minutes.

If you compare to a regular season and a player rolled in to training camp after spending an entire summer just eating hot dogs on the couch and not doing a damn thing else, sure I'd expect them to be completely terrible in October, huffin and puffin. And even possibly the first 4 weeks of the season in November, but I'd think the player would be conditioned by Christmas.

Hey, I hope you're right, but right now, he definitely looks more like a guy who is losing his legs than a guy who is getting his legs. He plays tough defense, and I think that is what's wearing him out. That's why he's uncharacteristically hitting front iron on a lot of his shots as the game goes on. If he was just a spot up/no D guy like Telly, he'd already be in midseason form.

[thomchatt3rton]

, and could also have a negative affect on his game.

Actually Giannis came out of the gates and we looked great.

They switched Butler on to Giannis and he stopped driving and then we changed to the no motion, Middleton ISO ball.

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder what the key is to Giannis having these passive games? I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.

I really hope this isn't the case, and this is total speculation.

Others have mentioned this in the past, but I wonder if Giannis feels pressure from Kidd and maybe even Mids to get others involved more. If so, I could see how that may make him more passive instead of trying to score himself and being aggressive.

In the past, Kidd has said that all the players are created equal on the team. But in reality, that's BS. Giannis is a star. Kidd needs to embrace that, and his teammates need to realize this too. Everyone should know by now this is Giannis' team. Let him play his game.

Others have also questioned if his teammates have become jealous of him. Who knows if that's true, but if it is, then that's pretty pathetic, and could have a negative affect on his game.

If Giannis' passiveness is 100% on him, then Kidd needs to address that. But this is also the same coach who literally told him he didn't want him shooting any 3's, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

If I had to guess, I'd say it was more of a function of Giannis being unsure what his role is at certain times rather than any pressure to get others more involved. Very similar to what you said, but I think there's a meaningful distinction.

Part of that is on Kidd and the offensive scheme he's installed, and I have no doubt you're right that in some instances, Kidd wants him to be more of a distributor.
But part of it is probably also due to Giannis and the limitations of his game- it's hard for to find a consistent, night-in-and-night-out role for a guy with his skill-set.

Also, I suspect Giannis is at times less confident than it may seem- as hard as that may be for us to believe. He's a hard worker, so there's no doubt he's hard on himself. And he's still a young man, trying to operate in a foreign culture in a sport at the highest level- that's tough! There's likely a good deal more uncertainty in him than us fans can see.