Should the NBA bring Back handchecking

[Clyde Frazier]

Hand checking isn't the problem, this isn't the problem:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1555582&p=54776896&hilit=Flailing#p54776896

The cheap fouls are annoying for fans to watch, but the issue the OP is addressing goes far beyond that. IMO the game has turned into a farce because the top teams are taking 40+ uncontested threes a game with the rest of their shots being in the paint. This is driven, of course, by the analytics movement, where they've put together the equation that 3 > 2 when you can hit the 3 at the same rate as the 2 thanks to not being guarded. By making it harder to shoot 3s (handchecking or moving the line back), maybe we can get back to using more of the court and playing basketball on both sides. But I don't think this will happen anytime soon because most fans like high scoring games. The all-star game-- the pinnacle of our sport-- is basically a glorified game of "around the world" now.

If you don't think players spamming free throws they don't deserve is a serious problem, I don't know what to tell you. It simply isn't basketball. Suggesting moving the 3PT line back is an overreaction to the progression of the game.



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[JoeyLightYears]

Oh, spamming free throws pisses me off, but realistically it doesn't have nearly as much impact on the game as the evolution of offenses around the three point line. I think moving it back makes perfect sense in order to balance the game. When the line was introduced, no one could shoot from way out there. Now everyone can. So why give them 50% more points for a shot that isn't even any harder to make than a 15 footer?

[Clyde Frazier]

I would rather watch a game where players uses moves such as the fadeaway shot , drop set and can use post moves to score then this run up and shoot a 3. Yes ISO nba era was bad but the way it is going it will get even worse then the 1999-2004 era .


Kobe Iverson McGrady Lebron are way more fun to watch then players like Curry.


Handchecking was limited in 1994 but it wasn't banned until 2004

I think you might be confusing Steph Curry's game with Dell Curry's


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[Clyde Frazier]

This real issue with the current rules is the double standard given to perimeter players vs post players.

What's a foul for perimeter players / facing the basket is NOT a foul is you catch the ball below the FT line / back to the basket.

If we get a physical specimen again like young Orlando Shaq 2.0, if defenders couldn't touch him near the basket any more than a defender can touch Steph Curry while he's shooting a 3, there would be a renaissance of paint scoring again.

But right now, if Shaq 2.0 came into the NBA he'd be better off learning to shoot the 3.

...does not compute. If shaq played today the only difference would likely be keeping him in Orlando shape with attention to his fitness/nutrition so he could run the floor more. There would be no change in utilizing him as a dominant paint scorer.


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[JoeyLightYears]

If Shaq played now, they'd just surround him with shooters straddling the line, like Orlando did with Dwight in 2009-ish. It'd still be paint or three.

[ProfessorJM]

You are missing the point. The three is bad because it is worth 50% more, and it's only maybe 10% harder. It completely changes the dynamic of the offense because it makes teams not even want to bother with half the court. Also, threes are harder to defend than mid-range shots because there is so much room to operate. Watch Houston sometime. 90% of the time down they run the same play. High pick and roll. The Stockton/Malone play, with even less versatility because they are hunting for threes most of the time. You can't really guard it either.

Pull up some footage of Grinnell in college. I see no plausible reason that the league won't go in this direction eventually. It is a mockery of the sport.

I didn't see the Wizards/Celtics game but I bet I know how it went down since both of these teams play this kind of style. You're right, I probably should quit watching basketball since the direction it is going isn't something I really enjoy, but most fans love it.

Fair point on the value of 3s skewing the game. The rest of it, I still don't get. You've mentioned variety and strategy several times. But you're not losing anything significant in those areas as it relates to the entertainment value of the game -- which is the only reason any of us watch in the first place -- by ignoring 16 footers in favor of 24 footers.

Re: Grinnell. You're talking about a private Division III school in Iowa that, I'm assuming, probably doesn't offer much in the way of scholarships. Good luck recruiting anything in the way of quality size, so why not go the other way? I hardly think that's a bell weather for the future of basketball.

Here's my thing: Given the impossibility of striking a perfect balance between O and D, I'll take O each and every time. Clutch-and-grab basketball sucks, and I'm thrilled we've moved light years away from that.

Did anybody envision a team taking 50 3s in a game when they installed the line? Hell, nobody envisioned that even 10 or 15 years ago. I get the concerns. I don't know what they would be but maybe some adjustments are in order. (Increasing the size of the court in order to move the line out might be a good idea, but that's never going to happen given the economics of the game.) Then again, I'm pretty sure nobody circa 1985 or so imagined the game grinding to the halt it did in terms of scoring and pace. That wasn't basketball.

I've seen many iterations of the NBA game over the years. Given the fact that teams actually play transition defense now, we're never going to get back to where it was in the 80s, which was my favorite. But with the emphasis on ball movement, player movement, faster pace, shooting and passing -- again, people seem to be focusing on the end result without acknowledging everything else that comes with it -- I love where the game is at now.

The 80s were fun -- good times. We won't see that again much.

I don't think 50 three pointers is enough personally, I'd try and shoot them constantly if the shot is reasonably available as a good quality look with the right person taking the shot. I'd shoot on sight (not literally of course) anyone on my team that took a 21 foot mid-range shot unless it's necessary due to say a shot clock violation, etc. In the paint or a three -- I think that's the way to go, and you need to draft accordingly for that reality. An Okafar is obsolete to me in today's game because his defense can't make up for his lack of offensive efficiency. I'd also be looking much harder at hacking bad free throw shooters even more than teams do now given certain situations. I also love DeRozen for example personally and love watching him play, but for me if I was an owner/GM, he is not what I want as he doesn't fit my model of what I want for maximum offensive efficiency at his payroll cost and I'd be evaluating efficiency per dollar so to speak. (I need a certain level of max efficiency for a max player) I'd rather in some ways just have an elite defender that can hit 40% from 3 and just shoot and set screens over and over.

Tonight's game was great! Also, players don't yet have the skills to field full rosters with the modern efficiency potential of today's game but that may change over time. I also think the Warriors could be even better offensively than they are now and may get better later.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Another sidenote: NBA teams, on average, commit less fouls and shoot less FTs than any season during the glorified (overrated?) 90s.

That's because everybody is chucking threes like a bad computer game.

[spacemonkey]

Lol just imagine if someone as strong as Kawhi or LeBron was allowed to put a hand on your hip and constantly push while you drive.

[slick_watts]

either hand checking should come back or a stricter enforcement of moving screens.

[dk1115]

Imagine a game go back to scoring in the 80's EVERY game.

[Curmudgeon]

Hand checking? No. But incidental hand contact should not be called.

I don't see moving screens as a big issue, until they become hip checks. Then they should be called.

My biggest peeve is charging vs blocking calls. Players like LeBron and Harden just barge into defenders and get the call 90% of the time. If the defender is moving backwards trying to avoid contact, the call should be a charge.

[ChuckChilly]

Quickness should always be rewarded over strength.

Can't believe people want to go back to the times when stiffs ran rampant in the league all cause they were tall and strong.

[DieYoung]

No, but they should consider moving the three point line back.

[Edrees]

It would lead to more defense which results in more turnovers, which in today's nba, can lead to a free three point basket. Back when hand checking was legal, people wouldnt shoot three pointers in transition. I'm not so sure peoples three point numbers wouldn't actually go up in today's game.

I find it laughable that anyone thinks Curry would be more worse off than other players. Have you seen the type of 3 pointers he take? he just runs up and shoots, typically a feet or two behind the three point line. What is hand checking going to do?

[Daddy 801]

I'm one of the only people I know who LOVED the late-80s-to-mid-90s-Pistons-Knicks-slowdown-grind NBA, so I'm a huge proponent of this.

The NBA got to be almost unwatchable by the end of the 90s. I'm on on the other end of the spectrum. I want to see the world's best athletes have space and freedom to show their skills, not sumo wrestle up and down the court.

Can't we just find middle ground where guys are allowed to play defense. Players can't do the annoying jump into the defender and get a foul called. A charge is a charge. A hard foul is a hard foul and doesn't need a review. A player can jaw at another player without it being an "issue". Players can get physical but not dirty and refs allow it if both sides are playing that way. Guys have to earn an and 1. Ya know, just good basketball.

[GrandTheftRondo]

I'm one of the only people I know who LOVED the late-80s-to-mid-90s-Pistons-Knicks-slowdown-grind NBA, so I'm a huge proponent of this.

The NBA got to be almost unwatchable by the end of the 90s. I'm on on the other end of the spectrum. I want to see the world's best athletes have space and freedom to show their skills, not sumo wrestle up and down the court.

Can't we just find middle ground where guys are allowed to play defense. Players can't do the annoying jump into the defender and get a foul called. A charge is a charge. A hard foul is a hard foul and doesn't need a review. A player can jaw at another player without it being an "issue". Players can get physical but not dirty and refs allow it if both sides are playing that way. Guys have to earn an and 1. Ya know, just good basketball.

Maybe try watching the playoffs the past two years. There is still plenty of physicality. The Cavs were literally wrestling Curry at times in last year's finals.

[primecougar]

With some of these answers, im pretty sure most people here don't know how much handchecking would help defenders.

Every single perimeter player that relys on quickness and dribbling would be affected.

I said this in another thread but they should call fouls the same for perimeter/post players.
Every team goes small because when a smaller player mugs a bigger player in the post, it's nevertheless called. 2 ex) watch what cp3 was doing to Hayward, or watch some old games of draymond guarding z-bo/gasol/ and griffin in the post.

I hate when there's a switch in the post and the big guy tries to back down and the smaller just falls down and they call a charge. Well, he has no business trying to guard a guy that weighs 60-80 pounds more than him.

Get rid of players running into the paint looking for fts, allow handchecking, and maybe remove 3 in the key.

I was happy for isiah Thomas but Washington players were scared to get near him because everything was a foul. Games are becoming boring to watch, especially considering there's not much parity.

[Black Jack]

Do it for one year just for the lolz.

It really would be fun to see the impact on stats just to shut up all the 80s fetishists.

[Black Jack]

With some of these answers, im pretty sure most people here don't know how much handchecking would help defenders.

Every single perimeter player that relys on quickness and dribbling would be affected.

I said this in another thread but they should call fouls the same for perimeter/post players.
Every team goes small because when a smaller player mugs a bigger player in the post, it's nevertheless called. 2 ex) watch what cp3 was doing to Hayward, or watch some old games of draymond guarding z-bo/gasol/ and griffin in the post.

I hate when there's a switch in the post and the big guy tries to back down and the smaller just falls down and they call a charge. Well, he has no business trying to guard a guy that weighs 60-80 pounds more than him.

Get rid of players running into the paint looking for fts, allow handchecking, and maybe remove 3 in the key.

I was happy for isiah Thomas but Washington players were scared to get near him because everything was a foul. Games are becoming boring to watch, especially considering there's not much parity.

I think incidental ticky-tack fouls should be reined in. A guy like Harden just is looking for some really minimal contact and a whistle. You don't have to go full Rodman to allow defenders more leeway.

[Pennebaker]

I say yes as currently the rules benefit offensive players so much that it is not funny. Like currently you are not even allowed to touch a player which allows quicker , players with good ball handling to easily get open shots. While I dont believe the NBA should allow teams to be as physical as the Bad Boy Pistons were , they need to allow some physicality .


So here are some rule changes I would propose:

Hand checking is only illegal when the player is 6-20 feet away from the basket.

If an offensive player intentionally bumps into a defensive player that is no longer a block foul, but it wont be a charging foul either .

It will never happen because league's opinion is that:

A lot of scoring = good
Less scoring = bad

Numbers are going up for the NBA after suffering through several years in the mid-2000s in the ratings dump due to slow paces and low scores, so I don't see why they'd change anything.