Kawhi has become overrated

[lakerz12]

Most Raptors fans are defending Kawhi in this thread. You're just making up narratives that aren't there.

Kawhi was clearly the best player in the league in the last season, IDK how anyone can argue otherwise.

Giannis' regular season stats were better. And his team's record was better. For starters.

You're really making an argument based on regular season numbers and team record (which was only better by 1W, BTW) when the two have faced off in the play-offs?

In the Raptors' four game winning streak (which also happened to be Giannis's last four games of the season), here are their stats:

Giannis: 39.7 MPG / 20.5 PPG / 12.5 RPG / 5.5 APG / 1.0 SPG / 2.8 BPG / 4.0 TPG / .483 TS%
Kawhi: 42.0 MPG / 29.3 PPG / 10.0 RPG / 5.5 APG / 2.5 SPG / 1.3 BPG / 3.5 TPG / .568 TS%

Of course these stats don't tell the whole story but to those who watched them in that series, it was clear who the mentally tougher, more unstoppable guy was. Giannis couldn't find a way to beat the Raptors' swarming defense, while Kawhi was much more cooler under pressure, unlocking new dimensions to his game in order to help his team win (9 and 7 assists in the last two games, while being the primary defender on Giannis on the other side of the floor, etc.).

Doesn't make a lot of sense to base it on four games. At least post the whole series.

The Raptors had a very strong team defense. Swap Kawhi and Giannis and how do the numbers change?

You at least have to consider the regular season, as it is a much larger sample size where they played vs the same competition.

[SFour]

I don't think Kawhi is overrated...but the Raptors supporting cast is definitely underrated and don't get enough recognition for what they did in the ECF and Finals.

[lamscott]

I don't think Kawhi is overrated...but the Raptors supporting cast is definitely underrated and don't get enough recognition for what they did in the ECF and Finals.

This and coupled with Warriors injury has propelled Kawhi to overration.

[supaflash]

I love Kawhi but he has become slightly overrated in that there are a lot of people now putting him as the best player period. It comes down to two main things load management, both in the fact that he can't be counted on for a full season yet, and that he got to go into playoffs well maintained where some of these other guys are going in off 80 games. Do this for a few years in a row after long finals runs and then we can talk he's above LeBron.

The other is playmaking. He did show some improved ability in willingness as those series got tougher and defenses keyed in on him more, but he's still not the facilitator that some of these other guys are. His shift to that role late in the Milwaukee series showed a lot though, he just doesn't seem to look to facilitate consistently. He showed flashed in his SA series too, but for a guy to consistently hover at 3 assists or less for his usage and sub 20% assist rate, he needs to do it more.

The fact that Toronto was able to consistently win without him and with large margins shows he was on an excellent team. That shouldn't completely detract from what he did though and that he's a special player. I just don't think you can make the case that he's clearly better than everyone. He is for sure top 5, and arguably top 3, maybe top 2. Pre injury KD was better, I think LeBron is still better, (regular season coasting on defense is his load management, he just came off a godly playoff run the year before), AD I think is better and has become suddenly underratted, just look at his playoff numbers when he's had a team that could get there. Giannis is close but his lack of range hurts him a little, but he's also more dominant in the paint and defensively now. I think people slightly underrate PG now as well saying that he is clearly the second best behind Kawhi when I don't think the difference is that clear cut. PG has has extremely impressive playoff performances and stretches in season, his team circumstances just haven't been the same. The difference between those two is razor thin imo, and in reality between all these top guys. Steph and Harden have their case as well with some minor deficiencies.

I'm excited to see how he does next year, how much load management he needs. He still is somewhat getting plugged in to an already good team, but not so clear cut as it was with the Raps. AD playing for championship hopes, LeBron coming off his first rest in ages, Harden still pushing, Giannis coming back improved, Curry on his own for a while, PG playing off Kawhi, its gonna be an interesting year who is the best player and who makes a run for MVP...

[Chessboxer]

The dynasty stopper tag is whats' overrated. That is for legendary performances. He is the rightful FMVP in both finals, but he was facing injury riddled teams. Just a fact. Wade looked like should not have even been playing that series, and we all saw what happened to Golden State. Also, I thought outside of game 4, he was pretty mediocre in this years' Finals. He was so stifled by Golden State's defense he resorted to barreling inside for fouls. At times he looked like a rich mans' Harden out there.

Toronto has such a well balanced team its just a shame their efforts get discounted to prop up Kawhi (by some). That Finals win was a total team effort.

[thebigbird]

No he's not.

His playoff run just showed us he's the best player in the NBA.

No he's not. He can't play make at all. His defense isn't anywhere near as good as it was a few years ago. He was a worse defender than LeBron last regular season. The Raptors had a better winning percentage without Kawhi than with him. People act like he carried a bunch of scrubs last postseason when really the Raptors were a 59 win team before him.

[dho4ever]

I don't think he's overrated in terms of his position currently, but his all time ranking is a bit high.

He's definitely a top 3 player in the league today. I have no quarrel if you want to put him at number 1 because an argument for that can easily be made.

I do however see people putting him in top 10 of all time which is a bit of a stretch considering how he got his two most notable credentials (2 FMVPs)

The first Final MVP was against a Miami Team with the worst versions of Wade and Bosh. In addition, the Spurs shot amazing as a team and honestly its hard to really say who the best player on that team is. The team success wasn't really repeatable despite Leonard getting more responsibility. They lose to the Clippers in the first round the following year. And the next year they win 67 games but lose the Thunder. In other words, at no point during this time, was Leonard a top tier player. He was an emerging star though.

In Toronto, Leonard has his best season with the Raptors and they make an impressive push in the Eastern Conference Finals and winning the Championship against the Warriors. Despite Leonards great shooting performance and elite defense, we don't know how it would have played out if the Warriors weren't injured. So its impossible to say that he beat an elite team.

Compared to other players who have won 2 Final MVPs, I do believe that the first one is not as high regard as a lot of other player's. It . just increased in value as Kawhi got better as a player later on.

[Ballings7]

No. He's rated correctly, and is actually still underrated by numerous in the media who are short-sighted and are overly biased towards flashy players and attention-seekers. That kind of primary default set of qualifications doesn't equal better.

Kawhi's been the best player in the league 2 out of the last 3 years (2017, xx2018, 2019). 100%.

Come and get me Media Darlings.

[kuclas]

He’s not over rated. He was a top 3-4 player for 2 seasons prior to his injury 2017-2018 season.

He had an elite season 2018-2019 by all measures but it was over looked since he rested so many games.

So you are talking 3 elite seasons in a row when he’s played more than 60 games. Clearly not over rated. I don’t think he’s the best player. But in the top 3-4 which he was before his injury.

[arbsn]

If he wins a title for the Clippers he becomes undeniably top 15 all time.

[Yogatti]

If he wins a title for the Clippers he becomes undeniably top 10 all time.

ftfy

[An Unbiased Fan]

He's def overrated.

[Klayforspicy]

Kawhi is doing everything he's doing with a degenerative quad, he's literally defying himself. Great player.

[r0drig0lac]

if compared to Lebron? yes, compared to any other active player? No, he's better than all of them (and had a legendary playoff without a super stacked team, yes I'm talking about Durant)

[israelfirst]

he got championships from beating old, tired and worn teams at the end of their runs.

[giannis and 1]

This is ridiculous lol. He's the best player on the planet and I just watched him (with the help of others, obviously) take a **** on my favourite team.

[JoseRizal]

I would have to agree that he’s a bit overrated now for the very reason that the media portrays Kawhi as the primary reason they won the championship.

Kawhi “cruised” the regular season with load management and was really able to avoid wear & tear, mileage in preparation for the playoffs while his teammates established his team’s seeding which benefitted them with HC advantage.

Harden, for example, has to go through the tough RS due to his teammates inability to stay healthy so come playoff time, he’s gassed. Same goes for Steph.

Unless Kawhi captures a regular season MVP to support his resume, he will always stay below LeBron, Steph, KD, etc.

[Max Headrom]

[dho4ever]

If he wins a title for the Clippers he becomes undeniably top 10 all time.

ftfy

Let's assume he wins this year for the Clippers. Who do you kick out? I listed 11 btw.

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Lebron
Duncan
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Hakeem
Kobe

[lonzo_pelota]

wonder what these new season ticket holders will say when Kawhi is missing from 25% of the games and they get a dose of Playoff P and his 5 point performances

Watch on YouTube

is Kawhi ruled out from MVP consideration since he'll never play enough games during the regular season?