Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz?

[Gooner]

He is the best, someone needs to carry a scoring load.

was he a top 20 players last year? Gobert is arguably in the top 10, and definitely is in top 15.

Gobert is not a top 15 player, definitely not top 10, because he needs to be served by others on offense. His defensive impact is huge, but basketball is game of creation. He can't create. Mitchell is a border line top 20 player for me. I don't make those lists, but that's the category where I would put him.

[Gooner]

He is the best, someone needs to carry a scoring load.

A lots of guys in the league can score 20 on.400 from the field.

He averaged 23 on 43% from the field. It's not bad on a team that didin't have a true second option. Most importantly, his numbers and his play lead to wins. Jazz are a strong playoff team in the west, and that's not easy to achieve.

[wutevahung]

He is the best, someone needs to carry a scoring load.

was he a top 20 players last year? Gobert is arguably in the top 10, and definitely is in top 15.

Gobert is not a top 15 player, definitely not top 10, because he needs to be served by others on offense. His defensive impact is huge, but basketball is game of creation. He can't create. Mitchell is a border line top 20 player for me. I don't make those lists, but that's the category where I would put him.

Jeff Teague can also create, is he a better player than Gobert?

A better player makes bigger impact, and Rudy makes much bigger impact than Mitchell.

2018-2019 regular season
Donovan Mitchell- PER 17.2, 0.537 TS%, 5.0 WS, 0.6 BPM, 1.7 VORP. 1.3 OWS, 0.8 OBPM
Rudy Gobert- PER 24.6, 0.682 TS%, 14.4 WS, 7.0 BPM, 5.9 VORP. 8.7 OWS, 2.0 OBPM

2018-2019 Play off
Donovan Mitchell- PER 6.8, 0.423 TS%, -0.5 WS, -6.0 BPM, -.02 VORP, -06 OWS, -5.8 OBPM
Rudy Gobert- PER 20.5, 0.665 TS%, 0.6WS, 6.8 BPM, 0.3 VORP, 0.4 OW, -0.7 OBPM

Rudy dominates Donovan in every single metrics. TS% is not that important in this comparison since it's in a concept of the same team, so we can disregard that, and we can even disregard the Mitchell's abysmal play off performance since it's a very small sample size, but even offensively, Mitchell is not making a bigger impact on his team than Gobert. Not saying Mitchell is not a better offensive player, because creation is important, and someone has to be able to absorb the shots, but if you think Mitchell is a better player just because he creates then you should reevaluate the way you think about basketball, because evidently, their impacts aren't even close.

Rudy is an underrated offensive player. He was #7 in offensive rebound % last year, and he has good hands to catch passes in PNR, and is able to finish really well.

[NZB2323]

For the Jazz to win they need Mitchell to be their best player, you're not winning a title with Gobert or Conley as your top guy, he is the blue chipper on that roster.

The Pistons won a title with Ben Wallace as their best player.

[Indomitable]

He’s as important as JR Smith was to those Cavs teams... Every team needs a chucker!

He was pretty underwhelming.

[SF_Warriors]

He is the best, someone needs to carry a scoring load.

was he a top 20 players last year? Gobert is arguably in the top 10, and definitely is in top 15.

Gobert is not a top 15 player, definitely not top 10, because he needs to be served by others on offense. His defensive impact is huge, but basketball is game of creation. He can't create. Mitchell is a border line top 20 player for me. I don't make those lists, but that's the category where I would put him.

Ideally, you want a playmaker/scorer over a defender..however, elite defense versus average scoring efficiency and average to slightly above average playmaking is a different story. That is why covington is more valuable than say, a joe ingles. You are vastly underrating how much of an impact an elite defensive player has, especially one that can score 15+ points on 68% TS%.

Now, if mitchell was giving 58% TS or higher, it might be a different story, but he does not score at such an efficiency. Gobert ranks higher and significantly more in every advanced statistic..VORP, BPM, Win Shares, ORTG, DRTG all higher by a large margin.

[The_Hater]

Seeing how well Gobert and Ingles played in Recent games, and the addition of Conley, is Mitchell as important as we thought he was for the team?
I’d say he’s probably the 3rd or 4th most important player in the currently Jazz roster.

I think an argument could be made for 3rd, I do think Conley was better last season. But age and upside are still favouring Mitchell.

Is Ingles better than Bogdanovic? That I’m not sure of either.

[RoyceDa59]

Mitchell is their best player.

Jazz are stacked though, no doubt about it. They remind me of the 2001 Sac Kings in that they're stacked at each position but don't have a top 5 player (so will probably keep going on deep playoff runs but never break through). This is my prediction for the current Jazz team.

[wutevahung]

was he a top 20 players last year? Gobert is arguably in the top 10, and definitely is in top 15.

Gobert is not a top 15 player, definitely not top 10, because he needs to be served by others on offense. His defensive impact is huge, but basketball is game of creation. He can't create. Mitchell is a border line top 20 player for me. I don't make those lists, but that's the category where I would put him.

Jeff Teague can also create, is he a better player than Gobert?

A better player makes bigger impact, and Rudy makes much bigger impact than Mitchell.

2018-2019 regular season
Donovan Mitchell- PER 17.2, 0.537 TS%, 5.0 WS, 0.6 BPM, 1.7 VORP. 1.3 OWS, 0.8 OBPM
Rudy Gobert- PER 24.6, 0.682 TS%, 14.4 WS, 7.0 BPM, 5.9 VORP. 8.7 OWS, 2.0 OBPM

2018-2019 Play off
Donovan Mitchell- PER 6.8, 0.423 TS%, -0.5 WS, -6.0 BPM, -.02 VORP, -06 OWS, -5.8 OBPM
Rudy Gobert- PER 20.5, 0.665 TS%, 0.6WS, 6.8 BPM, 0.3 VORP, 0.4 OW, -0.7 OBPM

Rudy dominates Donovan in every single metrics. TS% is not that important in this comparison since it's in a concept of the same team, so we can disregard that, and we can even disregard the Mitchell's abysmal play off performance since it's a very small sample size, but even offensively, Mitchell is not making a bigger impact on his team than Gobert. Not saying Mitchell is not a better offensive player, because creation is important, and someone has to be able to absorb the shots, but if you think Mitchell is a better player just because he creates then you should reevaluate the way you think about basketball, because evidently, their impacts aren't even close.

Rudy is an underrated offensive player. He was #7 in offensive rebound % last year, and he has good hands to catch passes in PNR, and is able to finish really well.

I also want to add that Rudy is #2 in WS, #6 in BPM, #4 in VORP, and #1 in DBPM in whole league in 2018-2019 season.

[loserX]

A lot of different concepts being discussed here.

"Important" can mean a lot of things. Gobert is currently their best player. Gobert is also currently their most *irreplaceable* player; if he goes down, the impact on the Jazz's chances is a lot bigger than if Mitchell does.

Mitchell has the most potential, and if he taps it, he can take the Jazz the next step. Gobert's impact is already established and it's going to be hard for him to be much more impactful than he already is. So Mitchell is the x-factor in ways Gobert is not.

Mitchell had a tough slog last year: trying to generate offence while playing with Favors/Gobert/Rubio, none of whom could shoot, was a big ask and at times he struggled with it. (Also common to sophomores after a big rookie season: being unsure exactly how to expand their game, and trying to push too hard.)

Now the pieces are in place to help Mitchell really succeed...so it's on him to see if he can. Nothing is guaranteed but he has a great work ethic and a very smart coach, so Jazz fans have our fingers crossed.

[SF_Warriors]

Mitchell is their best player.

Jazz are stacked though, no doubt about it. They remind me of the 2001 Sac Kings in that they're stacked at each position but don't have a top 5 player (so will probably keep going on deep playoff runs but never break through). This is my prediction for the current Jazz team.

I mean, cwebb abd peja were perennial all stars who were quality go to options.I would not take any of the current jazz players on the offensive end over those two.

[PrinceH]

He's clearly the most talented, Gobert is the more effective though

[Gooner]

was he a top 20 players last year? Gobert is arguably in the top 10, and definitely is in top 15.

Gobert is not a top 15 player, definitely not top 10, because he needs to be served by others on offense. His defensive impact is huge, but basketball is game of creation. He can't create. Mitchell is a border line top 20 player for me. I don't make those lists, but that's the category where I would put him.

Jeff Teague can also create, is he a better player than Gobert?

A better player makes bigger impact, and Rudy makes much bigger impact than Mitchell.

2018-2019 regular season
Donovan Mitchell- PER 17.2, 0.537 TS%, 5.0 WS, 0.6 BPM, 1.7 VORP. 1.3 OWS, 0.8 OBPM
Rudy Gobert- PER 24.6, 0.682 TS%, 14.4 WS, 7.0 BPM, 5.9 VORP. 8.7 OWS, 2.0 OBPM

2018-2019 Play off
Donovan Mitchell- PER 6.8, 0.423 TS%, -0.5 WS, -6.0 BPM, -.02 VORP, -06 OWS, -5.8 OBPM
Rudy Gobert- PER 20.5, 0.665 TS%, 0.6WS, 6.8 BPM, 0.3 VORP, 0.4 OW, -0.7 OBPM

Rudy dominates Donovan in every single metrics. TS% is not that important in this comparison since it's in a concept of the same team, so we can disregard that, and we can even disregard the Mitchell's abysmal play off performance since it's a very small sample size, but even offensively, Mitchell is not making a bigger impact on his team than Gobert. Not saying Mitchell is not a better offensive player, because creation is important, and someone has to be able to absorb the shots, but if you think Mitchell is a better player just because he creates then you should reevaluate the way you think about basketball, because evidently, their impacts aren't even close.

Rudy is an underrated offensive player. He was #7 in offensive rebound % last year, and he has good hands to catch passes in PNR, and is able to finish really well.

Jeff Teague can't be a first option on a playoff team, Mitchell was a first option on a team that made the second round in the west-as a rookie. If you take out Mitchell from that team, would Gobert have the same impact? He needs a scorer with him so he can do what he does defensively, and as a roller/offensive rebounder.

[goober]

He is the best, someone needs to carry a scoring load.

was he a top 20 players last year? Gobert is arguably in the top 10, and definitely is in top 15.

Gobert is not a top 15 player, definitely not top 10, because he needs to be served by others on offense. His defensive impact is huge, but basketball is game of creation. He can't create. Mitchell is a border line top 20 player for me. I don't make those lists, but that's the category where I would put him.

Gobert creates a lot on the offensive end with his elite screen setting

[dautjazz]

Somewhere between 1-3. I'd say last year that Gobert was clearly the better of the 3, I do expect more improvement for Mitchell than Gobert, in all likelihood Mitchell still didnt quite pass Gobert, but I see Gobert commenting himself as a top 10 player this year. Mitchell could very well be in the 15-20 range by years end, I guess I'd put Conley more or less in the same place as he was last year, around 25.

[PlatinumState]

Do people generally consider Mitchell a future star?
Asking seriously, I dont know whats the consensus around him

[KqWIN]

Jeff Teague can't be a first option on a playoff team, Mitchell was a first option on a team that made the second round in the west-as a rookie. If you take out Mitchell from that team, would Gobert have the same impact? He needs a scorer with him so he can do what he does defensively, and as a roller/offensive rebounder.

This is such a silly argument, does defense exist to you? The Jazz would not be a playoff team without Gobert. The Jazz were a good team because of their defense, and their defense was good because of Rudy Gobert. The person who shoots the most on a team is not automatically the best player.

[Gooner]

Jeff Teague can't be a first option on a playoff team, Mitchell was a first option on a team that made the second round in the west-as a rookie. If you take out Mitchell from that team, would Gobert have the same impact? He needs a scorer with him so he can do what he does defensively, and as a roller/offensive rebounder.

This is such a silly argument, does defense exist to you? The Jazz would not be a playoff team without Gobert. The Jazz were a good team because of their defense, and their defense was good because of Rudy Gobert. The person who shoots the most on a team is not automatically the best player.

You can't win just on defense, you have to outscore the opponent. Basketball is the game fo creation, and the job of defense is to adapt to that. Offense dictates the game. Jazz would have a better chance to make the playoffs without Gobert than without Mitchell in those last two years. If Mitchell was out, who would score for them?

[Asif16]

Honestly, its tough to say after the Season he had last year. Dude was brick city. But at the same time, they were force feeding him to be the main guy. So Idk.

What I do know is that the Jazz wont make any noise with Mitchell as their 3rd or 4th guy. They need him to be the #1

[KqWIN]

Jeff Teague can't be a first option on a playoff team, Mitchell was a first option on a team that made the second round in the west-as a rookie. If you take out Mitchell from that team, would Gobert have the same impact? He needs a scorer with him so he can do what he does defensively, and as a roller/offensive rebounder.

This is such a silly argument, does defense exist to you? The Jazz would not be a playoff team without Gobert. The Jazz were a good team because of their defense, and their defense was good because of Rudy Gobert. The person who shoots the most on a team is not automatically the best player.

You can't win just on defense, you have to outscore the opponent. Basketball is the game fo creation, and the job of defense is to adapt to that. Offense dictates the game. Jazz would have a better chance to make the playoffs without Gobert than without Mitchell in those last two years. If Mitchell was out, who would score for them?

And? You can't win on just offense. Turns out that if they score more than you, they win the game. It doesn't matter if the game is 150-140, or 95-85. The team with the most points wins 100% of the time, both team's point total count exactly the same.

If you want to throw out all sensibility...sure. To each their own. In a world where defense exists, this isn't an argument. Hopefully that will change going forward, but it's not been close over the past two seasons.