How NBA rules prevented Michael Jordan's Bulls from facing superteams in the 1990s

[dhsilv2]

Good info but I don't know why it's directed at MJ rather than just being a primer on the league and salary cap at that time. MJ didn't face superteams but he also wasn't on a superteam. And other players were also not on or playing against superteams. So there was no superteam-related competitive advantage or disadvantage for MJ or anyone else.

Bulls was a superteam for 90s standards.

No they were not. Rodman was pretty much on the street before the Bulls picked him up. And most nights it was MJ carrying the scoring.

You act like MJ would have accepted less than carrying the scoring load. Ron Harper was a 20 a game scorer before the bulls. Kerr was far better than you seem to realize. Toni was a 4.5 BPM, 19.2 PER, .193 WS/48 guy over those 3 years. Those are legit allstar level box score stats for a 6th man.

[twyzted]

The all time leader in 3 point % was the 7th man.
Kudos was the best foreigner.
Bison Dele, Ron harper, etc.

They were the real definition of super team instead of the lebromcemtric one

Really Bison Dele like are you being serious?

The guy played 28 whole games for the bulls averaging 6ppg and 4 rpg.

And sure a guy who took 2 3pointers per game GOAT 3PT SHOOTER.

the amount of mental gymnastics at display

sure lets include them.

Dele is a weird one.

Kerr however lets put him into perspective as a 7th man. Per 100 stats 96-98

PTS 18.7
AST 5.0
STL 1.7
TOV 1.2
ORtg 136

Box metrics
BPM 2.8
WS/48 .191
PER 14.8

RPM (RPM WINS)
non data for 96
97 2.39 (6.39) - this grades him out as a top 50 player per minute and top 70 in total impact (insane for a 7th man)
98 he wasn't very good and box metrics showed that a bit too but 96 we'd have to expect pretty good results.

So yeah...I think you're under selling Kerr man. He was surprisingly good and important for those teams. There's a reason he was on the floor in that famous Jazz game for the last play.

He was a role player he did his job fine but adding him as reason to a team being a super team is well....

Chalmers avg per 100 in 12-13
18ppg
6apg
1.8spg

Chris andersen
Ws48 .31
Bpm 5.5
23.8ppg
15rpg
4bpg

Heatles big12?

[Ballerhogger]

Really Bison Dele like are you being serious?

The guy played 28 whole games for the bulls averaging 6ppg and 4 rpg.

And sure a guy who took 2 3pointers per game GOAT 3PT SHOOTER.

the amount of mental gymnastics at display

sure lets include them.

Dele is a weird one.

Kerr however lets put him into perspective as a 7th man. Per 100 stats 96-98

PTS 18.7
AST 5.0
STL 1.7
TOV 1.2
ORtg 136

Box metrics
BPM 2.8
WS/48 .191
PER 14.8

RPM (RPM WINS)
non data for 96
97 2.39 (6.39) - this grades him out as a top 50 player per minute and top 70 in total impact (insane for a 7th man)
98 he wasn't very good and box metrics showed that a bit too but 96 we'd have to expect pretty good results.

So yeah...I think you're under selling Kerr man. He was surprisingly good and important for those teams. There's a reason he was on the floor in that famous Jazz game for the last play.

He was a role player he did his job fine but adding him as reason to a team being a super team is well....

Chalmers avg per 100 in 12-13
18ppg
6apg
1.8spg

Chris andersen
Ws48 .31
Bpm 5.5
23.8ppg
15rpg
4bpg

Heatles big12?

That’s because they were asked shoot mainly and rebound .. chalmers defensive iq was really bad . Anderson outside of being without Lebron wasn’t very good

[Sark]

So just like Kerr and Rodman.

[Dan Z]

This sure is a long post trying to justify a reason to diminish what Jordan accomplished.

[twyzted]

Dele is a weird one.

Kerr however lets put him into perspective as a 7th man. Per 100 stats 96-98

PTS 18.7
AST 5.0
STL 1.7
TOV 1.2
ORtg 136

Box metrics
BPM 2.8
WS/48 .191
PER 14.8

RPM (RPM WINS)
non data for 96
97 2.39 (6.39) - this grades him out as a top 50 player per minute and top 70 in total impact (insane for a 7th man)
98 he wasn't very good and box metrics showed that a bit too but 96 we'd have to expect pretty good results.

So yeah...I think you're under selling Kerr man. He was surprisingly good and important for those teams. There's a reason he was on the floor in that famous Jazz game for the last play.

He was a role player he did his job fine but adding him as reason to a team being a super team is well....

Chalmers avg per 100 in 12-13
18ppg
6apg
1.8spg

Chris andersen
Ws48 .31
Bpm 5.5
23.8ppg
15rpg
4bpg

Heatles big12?

That’s because they were asked shoot mainly and rebound .. chalmers defensive iq was really bad . Anderson outside of being without Lebron wasn’t very good

And i guess kerr was a defensive stopper for the bulls

[otwok]

This thread could've been an informative topic on salary cap and the 90s. Instead it's a bad thread.

And nobody in the 90s thought the Bulls were a super team. They say that now because of the results. If the Bulls didn't win the 6 rings in 8 years nobody would even talk about it.

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[Woodsanity]

Bulls won 55 games without Jordan in 94 but yea not a superteam.

[ciueli]

Jordans supporting cast on those bulls teams, especially during the first 3peat was putrid. Probably a bottom 5 team without him.

Funny how they almost made the finals the first year he retired. Not exactly a "putrid" supporting cast. Pippen alone is basically equivalent to Kawhi Leonard in terms of career and Kawhi is considered to be a top 5 player in the game today.

[DCasey91]

His hardest challenge in his prime (90’ Pistons was a more experienced team) was Reggie’s Pacers/And the Jazz. No disrespect to them but he never faced legit dynastic teams.


Krause btw Rest In Peace got such a poor narrative in the doco it was disrespectful. In my eyes very selfish same with Tex. Both are elite in the NBA history at what they did.

[dhsilv2]

Really Bison Dele like are you being serious?

The guy played 28 whole games for the bulls averaging 6ppg and 4 rpg.

And sure a guy who took 2 3pointers per game GOAT 3PT SHOOTER.

the amount of mental gymnastics at display

sure lets include them.

Dele is a weird one.

Kerr however lets put him into perspective as a 7th man. Per 100 stats 96-98

PTS 18.7
AST 5.0
STL 1.7
TOV 1.2
ORtg 136

Box metrics
BPM 2.8
WS/48 .191
PER 14.8

RPM (RPM WINS)
non data for 96
97 2.39 (6.39) - this grades him out as a top 50 player per minute and top 70 in total impact (insane for a 7th man)
98 he wasn't very good and box metrics showed that a bit too but 96 we'd have to expect pretty good results.

So yeah...I think you're under selling Kerr man. He was surprisingly good and important for those teams. There's a reason he was on the floor in that famous Jazz game for the last play.

He was a role player he did his job fine but adding him as reason to a team being a super team is well....

Chalmers avg per 100 in 12-13
18ppg
6apg
1.8spg

Chris andersen
Ws48 .31
Bpm 5.5
23.8ppg
15rpg
4bpg

Heatles big12?

Chalmers was a basically 0 BPM guy over that run, 12.8 PER, which is barely over replacement level, and a WS/48 of .108 again average player at best. That's not impressive. And he was a STARTER! Kerr was a 7th man who was better than him by a MILE. So basically the data tells me Chalmers wasn't even close to as good as Kerr and he started while kerr was a 7th man.

Andersen was actually pretty dang good for the heat. And aren't the heat seen as a super team? So I don't see why this is counter intuitive. he wasn't there for all of it but he was pretty dang good for them as a bench guy.

[prophet_of_rage]

Good info but I don't know why it's directed at MJ rather than just being a primer on the league and salary cap at that time. MJ didn't face superteams but he also wasn't on a superteam. And other players were also not on or playing against superteams. So there was no superteam-related competitive advantage or disadvantage for MJ or anyone else.

Bulls was a superteam for 90s standards.

How many points did Rodman average again? 5.5, 5.7 and 4.7 in those 3 championship years with the Bulls.
And in 1990-91 Jordan was the only Bull to make the All-Star game.

How many rebounding titles did he win? How many all defence teams?

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[devilsace]

The all time leader in 3 point % was the 7th man.
Kudos was the best foreigner.
Bison Dele, Ron harper, etc.

They were the real definition of super team instead of the lebromcemtric one

Ok, on the Miami heat, Ray Allen, all time most 3s was there 6th man...Shane battier, mike miller and rashard lewis were on there bench and Lebron had wade and bosh, so plz STFU with this bs

You're trying to post battier, Miller and Lewis? Did u do any research first? Rather disrespectful too
I can't come back at u because I just got warned, lol

Come on, you posted about Bison dele lmao, id rather have any of the 3 ive named

[prophet_of_rage]

How many points did Rodman average again? 5.5, 5.7 and 4.7 in those 3 championship years with the Bulls.
And in 1990-91 Jordan was the only Bull to make the All-Star game.

If it wasnt Rodman's scoring that got him FMVP votes in the 96 Finals, what was it?

Nah, but having a hole in your scoring like Rodman and Longely, is not helpful.....and there were many, many teams with more potent starting fives than the Bulls (in terms of scoring at each position).
Even Ron Harper didn't score much (7.4, 6.3 and 9.3).
Kukoc came off the bench and scored, but even he only averaged 13ppg during those 3 rings.

That isn't true when ypu can iso on each possession and put those non scprers in areas where they drag their help away with illegal defence rules.

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[BallinBug]

Jordans supporting cast on those bulls teams, especially during the first 3peat was putrid. Probably a bottom 5 team without him.

Funny how they almost made the finals the first year he retired. Not exactly a "putrid" supporting cast. Pippen alone is basically equivalent to Kawhi Leonard in terms of career and Kawhi is considered to be a top 5 player in the game today.

Yes, but they became good because of Jordan - his coaching, leadership and example. Had Pippen played his career on another team he would have amounted to an average role player at best.

[NO-KG-AI]

Lukewarm take. The Bulls were far from super in terms of talent.


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[Got Nuffin]

This thread could've been an informative topic on salary cap and the 90s. Instead it's a bad thread.

And nobody in the 90s thought the Bulls were a super team. They say that now because of the results. If the Bulls didn't win the 6 rings in 8 years nobody would even talk about it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

This exactly. The 90s Bulls were a superteam in hindsight. It's easy to say that when you look at the results, but at the time a handful of teams every year in the East and West thought they were just as talented and had a legit chance to topple the Bulls. A lot of the time it seemed to come down to Jordan's play in the clutch to prevent this from happening, which is why he is now remembered as the GOAT.

People seem to think Rodman was some superstar saviour for the team, but literally nobody wanted that bum on their team after his stint with the Spurs. He would probably have been out of the league in a few years, and it's unlikely a team without Jordan and Jackson could have handled that kind of distraction / attitude and still been functional.

[magicman1978]

Steve Kerr - season pre-bulls -2rpm. Season post bulls -0.5rpm
Ron Harper - averaged 6.9pts on 48%ts before Jordan returned. 11pts on 45%ts in 99
Kukoc had the chance to be the man in 99 and it turned out he actually wasn't as good as people thought
Rodman was great in 96. He declined significantly in 97 and 98 because he didn't really care to practice anymore. He was bad in the 97 & 98 playoffs.

These were good players for the Bulls, but definitely not a "Superteam". There's a reason these guys were so much better playing alongside Jordan.

[ciueli]

Jordans supporting cast on those bulls teams, especially during the first 3peat was putrid. Probably a bottom 5 team without him.

Funny how they almost made the finals the first year he retired. Not exactly a "putrid" supporting cast. Pippen alone is basically equivalent to Kawhi Leonard in terms of career and Kawhi is considered to be a top 5 player in the game today.

Yes, but they became good because of Jordan - his coaching, leadership and example. Had Pippen played his career on another team he would have amounted to an average role player at best.

So Jordan now gets the credit for turning Pippen into a star? And he's somehow the coach of the Bulls too? No credit for the front office that made decisions Jordan disagreed with (trading Charles Oakley for the pick they used to draft Pippen) or Phil Jackson (in spite of him having more rings than fingers to put them on)?

[Repeat 3-peat]

LeBron fans wake up everyday and try to find a way to diminish Jordan lmao.

Even without admitting it, they all know Jordan is the G.O.A.T.