Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[TGW]

It has to be Edwards going out, period. The poopoo platter of junk from Minny won't get it done.

[VDT]

The Warriors, the Clippers, the Lakers or the Wolves dont have anything useful to offer really. The Sixers best chance is to wait for a high level star/superstar to ask for a trade and send Simmons + picks to get him. Whether this is feasible remains to be seen, but the Sixers are not trading for young unproven guys or marginal roleplayers as the centerpieces of the deal, it doesnt make any sense for them no matter what Simmons, who still has 4 years on his contract, wants. At the most i could see these teams as part of a three team trade.

[Wolveswin]

It has to be Edwards going out, period. The poopoo platter of junk from Minny won't get it done.

You need to justify that.

Is Simmons greater value than Harden?

Harden didn’t get a premium youth. Why do Wolves need to up the offer for Simmons?

If the package is 1sts, 3x unprotected and 3-4 swaps is the offer. Plus Wolves can get 76ers win-now talent (not named Dame or Beal but win-now).

[NW]

The Warriors, the Clippers, the Lakers or the Wolves dont have anything useful to offer really. The Sixers best chance is to wait for a high level star/superstar to ask for a trade and send Simmons + picks to get him. Whether this is feasible remains to be seen, but the Sixers are not trading for young unproven guys or marginal roleplayers as the centerpieces of the deal, it doesnt make any sense for them no matter what Simmons, who still has 4 years on his contract, wants. At the most i could see these teams as part of a three team trade.

Depends on how uncomfortable Klutch and Simmons are willing to make it. For a team playing for a title, I don’t see Philly willing to have a Harden-like distraction for the entire year.

I expect Morey to eventually bend over one of the two desperate teams- Sac (in a win now deal based around Fox) or Minnesota (in a war chest asset deal for a ton of T-Wolves picks and then wait for the likely implosion in Minnesota that makes those picks like gold and moves Philly to the front of the line for the next disgruntled superstar)

[Chinook]

I don't think there's a third team out there, because Minny can't offer anything of what anyone would want. At best, they can offer an endless string of firsts to teams to try to grab win-now pieces, but if they are holding onto KAT/Russell/Edwards, they don't have the pieces to add anything to what they'd be buying. That the Wolves are even still having discussions suggests Simmons' value is in the absolute toilet right now.

[kalenclayton]

Are you trying to turn Pat Bev into Luke Ridnour?

[TheZachAttack]

Beverly, McDaniels, Beasley, 1st round picks for Simmons and filler seems like decent value both ways.

[MasterIchiro]

I don't think there's a third team out there, because Minny can't offer anything of what anyone would want. At best, they can offer an endless string of firsts to teams to try to grab win-now pieces, but if they are holding onto KAT/Russell/Edwards, they don't have the pieces to add anything to what they'd be buying. That the Wolves are even still having discussions suggests Simmons' value is in the absolute toilet right now.

Either that or the Wolves are being used by Morey as a price driver. I agree the Wolves don't have anything outside Edwards to satisfy the Sixers, let alone a third team. Sixers are said to want an All-Star in return. I don't see that happening.

[Mr Puddles]

inappropriate content removed -- Chuck

- inappropriate use of mod privileges there Chuck, that comment was about as tame as they come here on RealGM.

[TGW]

It has to be Edwards going out, period. The poopoo platter of junk from Minny won't get it done.

You need to justify that.

Is Simmons greater value than Harden?

Harden didn’t get a premium youth. Why do Wolves need to up the offer for Simmons?

If the package is 1sts, 3x unprotected and 3-4 swaps is the offer. Plus Wolves can get 76ers win-now talent (not named Dame or Beal but win-now).

It's apples and oranges. Houston was rebuilding and wanted picks. The Sixers, OTOH, don't need picks...they want an all-star calibre player. Unless you can find a third team that wants the poopoo platter, then the Sixers say no. It's that simple.

[VDT]

The Warriors, the Clippers, the Lakers or the Wolves dont have anything useful to offer really. The Sixers best chance is to wait for a high level star/superstar to ask for a trade and send Simmons + picks to get him. Whether this is feasible remains to be seen, but the Sixers are not trading for young unproven guys or marginal roleplayers as the centerpieces of the deal, it doesnt make any sense for them no matter what Simmons, who still has 4 years on his contract, wants. At the most i could see these teams as part of a three team trade.

Depends on how uncomfortable Klutch and Simmons are willing to make it. For a team playing for a title, I don’t see Philly willing to have a Harden-like distraction for the entire year.

I expect Morey to eventually bend over one of the two desperate teams- Sac (in a win now deal based around Fox) or Minnesota (in a war chest asset deal for a ton of T-Wolves picks and then wait for the likely implosion in Minnesota that makes those picks like gold and moves Philly to the front of the line for the next disgruntled superstar)

The Sixers are with their back on the wall also, as they need to be competitive right now. They dont have much to gain by a trade that doesnt make them better, or even more makes them worse and conversely they dont have much to lose by rejecting a bad trade and risk Simmons being a distraction. I wouldnt compare him with Harden though. Harden was a superstar, whose window and contract were much shorter. None of these is true for Simmons. The real problem here is that it is tricky to find a Simmons trade that makes sense for everyone.

Minessota's picks or even Fox maybe are not helping the Sixers win now. They might be part of a larger Simmons trade but they are not what the Sixers need right now.

[Nate the Great]

Value of Simmons will be going down as this draws out. Wiggins if he contributes to winning and contract left gets shorter his value goes up.

If Kuminga, Wiseman Moody contribute sooner their value goes up.

Way too much for GS to send

Wow. So many guaranteed positive “if” outcomes for your team, and such guaranteed negative outcome for the other team. You should consider a career in politics.

“If Wiggins contributes to winning and his contract gets shorter”

Well, at least you are guaranteed his contract will get shorter, that’s probably all that comes out of that statement

Right, the Warriors should go with guaranteed things. Like “it’s guaranteed that Simmons is a lousy shooter” and “it’s guaranteed that Simmons will be a detriment in the postseason.” And “it’s guaranteed that both Simmons and Draymond are fairly ineffective on offense unless they have the ball in their hands, so putting them together on the same lineup is probably a bad idea.” And “Simmons and Draymond are both power forwards, and would be less effective at any other position, guaranteed.”

All the arguments for the Warriors trading assets for Simmons seem to focus on “he’s a big name player” and “he won some award from the NBA.” None of them mention how he would actually help the team. He’d make an already formidable defense better, but they would be playing four-on-five on offense. And they would struggle in the playoffs with Simmons afraid to try to score at all.

If I’m wrong, tell me how he would fit with the Warriors in a good way, other than improving the defense.

[parsnips33]

Value of Simmons will be going down as this draws out. Wiggins if he contributes to winning and contract left gets shorter his value goes up.

If Kuminga, Wiseman Moody contribute sooner their value goes up.

Way too much for GS to send

Wow. So many guaranteed positive “if” outcomes for your team, and such guaranteed negative outcome for the other team. You should consider a career in politics.

“If Wiggins contributes to winning and his contract gets shorter”

Well, at least you are guaranteed his contract will get shorter, that’s probably all that comes out of that statement

Right, the Warriors should go with guaranteed things. Like “it’s guaranteed that Simmons is a lousy shooter” and “it’s guaranteed that Simmons will be a detriment in the postseason.” And “it’s guaranteed that both Simmons and Draymond are fairly ineffective on offense unless they have the ball in their hands, so putting them together on the same lineup is probably a bad idea.” And “Simmons and Draymond are both power forwards, and would be less effective at any other position, guaranteed.”

All the arguments for the Warriors trading assets for Simmons seem to focus on “he’s a big name player” and “he won some award from the NBA.” None of them mention how he would actually help the team. He’d make an already formidable defense better, but they would be playing four-on-five on offense. And they would struggle in the playoffs with Simmons afraid to try to score at all.

If I’m wrong, tell me how he would fit with the Warriors in a good way, other than improving the defense.

Doesn't the Warriors offense heavily feature playmaking out of the post, making quick reads as the roll man in the PNR, and quick passing/decision making at all 5 positions? How would having a big man who is one of the most versatile defensive players in the league AND an elite passer not help the team? His fit on the Warriors seems tremendous to me. I don't think he would replace the KD role, but be a sort of Iguodala/Bogut hybrid

[Wolveswin]

It has to be Edwards going out, period. The poopoo platter of junk from Minny won't get it done.

You need to justify that.

Is Simmons greater value than Harden?

Harden didn’t get a premium youth. Why do Wolves need to up the offer for Simmons?

If the package is 1sts, 3x unprotected and 3-4 swaps is the offer. Plus Wolves can get 76ers win-now talent (not named Dame or Beal but win-now).

It's apples and oranges. Houston was rebuilding and wanted picks. The Sixers, OTOH, don't need picks...they want an all-star calibre player. Unless you can find a third team that wants the poopoo platter, then the Sixers say no. It's that simple.

Of course a third team is needed. See reports today, the thread you are in (for example) and the many threads on TNT (for more examples)!

But let’s be clear:

Harden >> Simmons in value.

Wolves 1sts and Swaps >>> Nets 1sts and Swaps
(Owning 1sts from Timberwolves organization with Towns/Simmons/Russell in West is A LOT different than owning 1sts from KD/Harden/Irving Nets in the East)

And you call that a poopoo plater, but fact is that stinkier and nuttier plater was able to get Harden.

[NW]

The Warriors, the Clippers, the Lakers or the Wolves dont have anything useful to offer really. The Sixers best chance is to wait for a high level star/superstar to ask for a trade and send Simmons + picks to get him. Whether this is feasible remains to be seen, but the Sixers are not trading for young unproven guys or marginal roleplayers as the centerpieces of the deal, it doesnt make any sense for them no matter what Simmons, who still has 4 years on his contract, wants. At the most i could see these teams as part of a three team trade.

Depends on how uncomfortable Klutch and Simmons are willing to make it. For a team playing for a title, I don’t see Philly willing to have a Harden-like distraction for the entire year.

I expect Morey to eventually bend over one of the two desperate teams- Sac (in a win now deal based around Fox) or Minnesota (in a war chest asset deal for a ton of T-Wolves picks and then wait for the likely implosion in Minnesota that makes those picks like gold and moves Philly to the front of the line for the next disgruntled superstar)

The Sixers are with their back on the wall also, as they need to be competitive right now. They dont have much to gain by a trade that doesnt make them better, or even more makes them worse and conversely they dont have much to lose by rejecting a bad trade and risk Simmons being a distraction. I wouldnt compare him with Harden though. Harden was a superstar, whose window and contract were much shorter. None of these is true for Simmons. The real problem here is that it is tricky to find a Simmons trade that makes sense for everyone.

Minessota's picks or even Fox maybe are not helping the Sixers win now. They might be part of a larger Simmons trade but they are not what the Sixers need right now.

Failing to see how Fox doesn’t help the Sixers win more than an unhappy Simmons does. A T-Wolves deal is a one step back for two steps forward later deal. I think either will be better than the status quo with an unhappy Simmons for the Sixers future title chances

[jpatrick]

Morey is clearly waiting for a Lillard, Beal, etc to ask for their way out. Doesn’t appear to be happening during the offseason. Does Morey therefore force Simmons to report for the season in an attempt to trade him at the deadline when a star might be available? With Simmons not talking to Philly and him being thrown under the bus publicly by Doc and Embiid, this doesn’t seem like a good idea.

So, how does Morey keep assets for a deadline move while not having Simmons around. Trades him to Minny for Beasley, Prince, 2 FRPs, and 2 pick swaps. If one of those assets can be moved to a third team to get Philly a PG to start the season even better.

That way Morey has all the MN picks to flip to Portland or Washington if needed at the deadline. I’m just going to assume MN picks/swaps are seen as valuable around the league given how bad MN has historically been.

[Wolveswin]

Cavs:
Sexton + LNJ
FOR
McDaniels + Beasley + Wolves 2nds (x2)

76ers:
Simmons + Roster Filler
FOR
Sexton + LNJ + Beverley + 2023, 25 Wolves 1st (unprotected) + 2027 Wolves 1st (top 8 protected) + 2022, 24, 26 Wolves 1st Swaps (unprotected)

Wolves:
Beasley + McDaniels + Beverley + Pick Package (see above)
FOR
Simmons + 76ers Filler

Cavs trade Sexton for McDaniels and 2nds.

76ers give Sexton a try with a vet backup option in Bev. Either take Beasley for themselves or LNJ from Cavs in swap. Also keep an eye on Dame situation, Sexton + expiring filler ++ has to be more appealing to Blazers than a Simmons package.

Wolves get Simmons and hope that picks package doesn’t bite them in the a$$.
Towns
Simmons
Prince | Okogie
Edwards
Russell

[BullyKing]

inappropriate content removed -- Chuck

- inappropriate use of mod privileges there Chuck, that comment was about as tame as they come here on RealGM.

And that is not for you to decide. If you disagree, then PM him or another moderator.

[BullyKing]

Morey is clearly waiting for a Lillard, Beal, etc to ask for their way out. Doesn’t appear to be happening during the offseason. Does Morey therefore force Simmons to report for the season in an attempt to trade him at the deadline when a star might be available? With Simmons not talking to Philly and him being thrown under the bus publicly by Doc and Embiid, this doesn’t seem like a good idea.

So, how does Morey keep assets for a deadline move while not having Simmons around. Trades him to Minny for Beasley, Prince, 2 FRPs, and 2 pick swaps. If one of those assets can be moved to a third team to get Philly a PG to start the season even better.

That way Morey has all the MN picks to flip to Portland or Washington if needed at the deadline. I’m just going to assume MN picks/swaps are seen as valuable around the league given how bad MN has historically been.

Amazing how the perfect solution to Morey's dilemma as you see it is to trade Simmons to Minnesota for a pile of junk. What a happy coincidence!

[Godaddycurse]

McDaniels is too unproven to be worth sexton (to cleveland) at this point imo. Cleveland values sexton like a top 10 pick