Michael Jordan got proctected more than LeBron from NBA

[VanWest82]

[tweet][/tweet]

Lol @ the idea of MJ being more "protected" because NBA had to introduce flagrant fouls to stop the rampant use of non-basketball plays as the last and only method to slow him down. What a joke.

Yea because MJ was the first player to ever receive hard fouls. No one ever gave hard fouls on anybody in the history of basketball before Jordan, it only occurred to people as an idea to contain him and him only… by a bunch of guys who didn’t even lift weights (or barely did) and played the game in bikini shorts

First 42 years of the NBA was super clean and then everyone just decided let’s invent the entire idea of a hard foul just so we can stop him. That’s basically your take lol

Nike and Gatorade indoctrinated so many of you. As wilt said about MJ and him… some guys get the game changed so they can’t dominate, other guys get the game changed to make it easier to do so

Not to mention how super whiny MJ was about it…openly campaigning to get the nba to do something about the pistons physicality; and then later doing the same thing with the Knicks….some of you are too young to remember how many older players viewed him as the same type of pampered and entitled baby that many from mjs generetion view Lebron as being.

I'm not one of those fans that's too young to remember. MJ was never viewed as pampered and entitled. There was a time when people argued he couldn't win dominating the ball so much. They were wrong.

NBA didn't legislate out hard fouls. They took out the dangerous, non-basketball plays and put in penalties for fighting. Perhaps you're the one who's too young to remember if you think there were no hard fouls in the 90s.

[macNcheese3]

Jordan also wasn't as big of a loud mouth as LeBron. He let most of his game do the talking. LeBron is always hungry for the spotlight. It could be the era, and social media, but Jordan was a completely different personality. The spotlight came to Jordan, not the way LeBron looks for it.

On the court he most definitely was though. Almost any time anyone was shooting ft's you'd see MJ over by the refs trying to plead with them about something. MJ was most definitely looking for the spotlight as well. You're just sort of making stuff up here tbh. Obviously differences in era have to be taken into account but MJ was doing **** tons of commercials plus things like Space Jam and interviews to promote videos of him. Plus going on Oprah.

Commercials are endorsements and movies and interviews come to you when you are that good. That isn't looking for the spotlight. Does LeBron not have an opinion on so many things outside of Basketball? For example, the statement he made regarding the Rams and first round picks... I never heard or seen any clips of Jordan saying that. He went out and played the game. Did Jordan have a huge segment when he returned to the NBA like LeBron had the "decision". Those are the things I am inferring in my post. Not making anything up.

Pleading with the refs? Even scrubs do that. Who doesn't? LeBron has a big mouth compared to MJ, he peaks his beak into anything and everything.

[macNcheese3]

Jordan also wasn't as big of a loud mouth as LeBron. He let most of his game do the talking. LeBron is always hungry for the spotlight. It could be the era, and social media, but Jordan was a completely different personality. The spotlight came to Jordan, not the way LeBron looks for it.

On the court he most definitely was though. Almost any time anyone was shooting ft's you'd see MJ over by the refs trying to plead with them about something. MJ was most definitely looking for the spotlight as well. You're just sort of making stuff up here tbh. Obviously differences in era have to be taken into account but MJ was doing **** tons of commercials plus things like Space Jam and interviews to promote videos of him. Plus going on Oprah.

I can't conceive of anyone arguing MJ didn't love the spotlight.

The man is a marketing genius and aggressively placed himself in spots to get attention

I guess, LeBron doing it just gets a ton of heat then.

[Cavsfansince84]

Commercials are endorsements and movies and interviews come to you when you are that good. That isn't looking for the spotlight. Does LeBron not have an opinion on so many things outside of Basketball? For example, the statement he made regarding the Rams and first round picks... I never heard or seen any clips of Jordan saying that. He went out and played the game. Did Jordan have a huge segment when he returned to the NBA like LeBron had the "decision". Those are the things I am inferring in my post. Not making anything up.

Pleading with the refs? Even scrubs do that. Who doesn't? LeBron has a big mouth compared to MJ, he peaks his beak into anything and everything.

The problem here is I don't get the sense you were a fan back then. MJ didn't give political opinions but I mean you don't become the most marketed athlete in the world just by being good at something. That would be similar to what Kareem did or even Duncan. MJ on the scale from 1(not seeking any fame or spotlight) to a 10 would be at least a 9. LeBron's probably a 9.8 because he toned down his commercials quite a bit in the last 5-10 years.

[HMFFL]

Check his game log in December of 2012, I was wrong it was 6 straight games without a foul called against but a total of 2 foul called against in 8 games.

And Wilt never fouled out once in his entire career. Was that discipline, or did the refs treat him differently?

Star players have always received preferential treatment from the refs. Fans are more likely to notice if the star player is on the other team.

Didn't see Wilt play, but have seen Lebron's entire career. He commits fouls pretty much on every defensive possession. He truly commits like 20 blatant defensive fouls per game and like 5 offensive charges per game.

I STILL didn't think it was that bad. Lol.

Which is why players have stopped even trying to get in front of Lebron on defense. It's not worth it for them to take the contact from him and sacrifice their body in hopes for Lebron to be called for a charge. It's not happening. Lebron has more easy buckets inside than I have ever seen a superstar have because of this.



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[Bolts]

At the time I was definitely FOR MJ but also recognized he got the benefit of a friendlier whistle.

HOWEVER, if you want to take into account what a foul is and the hand checking and physicality:
- Michael Jordan’s era - Physicality allowed = 8
- LeBron Era - physicality allowed = 4.

Now as to calls and ref protection.
- physicality allowed on MJ before call - 5
- physicality allowed on LeBron before call - 2

MJ got calls but at his MOST protected, he would be the LEAST protected player on the court today.

BTW Oakley and Mason would literally have made LeBron cry. I’m not saying he wouldn’t be a great player back then but he’d have to be a different player.

[VanWest82]

Commercials are endorsements and movies and interviews come to you when you are that good. That isn't looking for the spotlight. Does LeBron not have an opinion on so many things outside of Basketball? For example, the statement he made regarding the Rams and first round picks... I never heard or seen any clips of Jordan saying that. He went out and played the game. Did Jordan have a huge segment when he returned to the NBA like LeBron had the "decision". Those are the things I am inferring in my post. Not making anything up.

Pleading with the refs? Even scrubs do that. Who doesn't? LeBron has a big mouth compared to MJ, he peaks his beak into anything and everything.

The problem here is I don't get the sense you were a fan back then. MJ didn't give political opinions but I mean you don't become the most marketed athlete in the world just by being good at something. That would be similar to what Kareem did or even Duncan. MJ on the scale from 1(not seeking any fame or spotlight) to a 10 would be at least a 9. LeBron's probably a 9.8 because he toned down his commercials quite a bit in the last 5-10 years.

I don't think he was seeking the spotlight as much as just trying to make money. MJ made 2.5M when he won his first title and didn't make over 4M until 97 at which point he was basically hiding from the spotlight as much as possible as Last Dance showed. And yes, he did become the most marketed athlete in the world by being great at something because he did it with a level of self-confidence and freak athletic ability that it drew fans in in a way that guys like Kareem and Duncan never could.

[Cavsfansince84]

I don't think he was seeking the spotlight as much as just trying to make money. MJ made 2.5M when he won his first title and didn't make over 4M until 97 at which point he was basically hiding from the spotlight as much as possible as Last Dance showed. And yes, he did become the most marketed athlete in the world by being great at something because he did it with a level of self-confidence and freak athletic ability that it drew fans in in a way that guys like Kareem and Duncan never could.

I'm not referring to 96-98 MJ so much as I am 85-93 MJ. He was private in some ways but you can't seek to maximize your earnings without seeking out the spotlight. If you think otherwise then there's no point in continuing this discussion. MJ understood this perfectly well.

[VanWest82]

I don't think he was seeking the spotlight as much as just trying to make money. MJ made 2.5M when he won his first title and didn't make over 4M until 97 at which point he was basically hiding from the spotlight as much as possible as Last Dance showed. And yes, he did become the most marketed athlete in the world by being great at something because he did it with a level of self-confidence and freak athletic ability that it drew fans in in a way that guys like Kareem and Duncan never could.

I'm not referring to 96-98 MJ so much as I am 85-93 MJ. He was private in some ways but you can't seek to maximize your earnings without seeking out the spotlight. If you think otherwise then there's no point in continuing this discussion. MJ understood this perfectly well.

Can you give some examples? It sure seemed more like companies were lining up to have MJ endorse them than the other way around.

Jordan was a natural alpha. He owned the room as well as the court. If your argument is that you can't be that guy without also being an attention seeker then I would push back some. There's a difference between being comfortable in your own skin while the spotlight is on you vs. seeking it out because you need the attention. The fact that MJ has been extremely private in his post playing days speaks to the fact that he was never really the latter.

[Cavsfansince84]

Can you give some examples? It sure seemed more like companies were lining up to have MJ endorse them than the other way around.

Jordan was a natural alpha. He owned the room as well as the court. If your argument is that you can't be that guy without also being an attention seeker then I would push back some. There's a difference between being comfortable in your own skin while the spotlight is on you vs. seeking it out because you need the attention. The fact that MJ has been extremely private in his post playing days speaks to the fact that he was never really the latter.

Fine, its duly noted that you push back against the idea of MJ seeking the spotlight. I think our views on what constitutes the spotlight are so far apart(more so taking into account the eras they played in) that debating it would be totally pointless anyhow. Also, yes I do think that doing commercials is part of seeking out the spotlight. Even more so in MJ's era along with things like appearing on Oprah.

[VanWest82]

Comparing MJ to his contemporaries, guys like Shaq, Chuck, and Magic seeked the spotlight while playing and have continued to do so long after. Not MJ. I don't think people change. I'd say MJ took advantage of opportunities to promote his brand and sell shoes in the early-mid part of his career and then as soon as he didn't need to do that anymore by the late 90s he was out. He's even on record that his dislike of the spotlight and added demands of it was a factor in his first retirement.

This entire "MJ was seeking the spotlight" argument feels like a pre-emptive deflection because everyone knows Lebron craves it.

[trueballer7]

Didnt the NBA change the travel rule cause Lebrun couldnt learn how not to travel?

[Cavsfansince84]

Comparing MJ to his contemporaries, guys like Shaq, Chuck, and Magic seeked the spotlight while playing and have continued to do so long after. Not MJ. I don't think people change. I'd say MJ took advantage of opportunities to promote his brand and sell shoes in the early-mid part of his career and then as soon as he didn't need to do that anymore by the late 90s he was out. He's even on record that his dislike of the spotlight and added demands of it was a factor in his first retirement.

This entire "MJ was seeking the spotlight" argument feels like a pre-emptive deflection because everyone knows Lebron craves it.

I think the issue has to do with people acting like one guy being more comfortable in the spotlight or seeking it out more(whether its Magic, Shaq, Barkley or LeBron) is somehow a character flaw when compared to guys who like it less or actively push it away whether its Kareem, Duncan, Bird or whoever. Its not some big character flaw. Then on top of that we have to factor in things such as era and circumstances. So even if we can say that on a personal level MJ doesn't enjoy it to me he still sought it out due to the financial side of things. Which I think is definitely part of how and why LeBron does. There's absolutely no moral high ground here though regardless imo. Yes its perfectly ok to criticize LeBron for some of the takes and stances he's given out over the years but it'd also be ok I think to give him credit for some of them as well on top of the different charity work he'd done going back to his first or second season when he loaded up trucks with stuff to take down to New Orleans after Katrina happened there.

[VanWest82]

Comparing MJ to his contemporaries, guys like Shaq, Chuck, and Magic seeked the spotlight while playing and have continued to do so long after. Not MJ. I don't think people change. I'd say MJ took advantage of opportunities to promote his brand and sell shoes in the early-mid part of his career and then as soon as he didn't need to do that anymore by the late 90s he was out. He's even on record that his dislike of the spotlight and added demands of it was a factor in his first retirement.

This entire "MJ was seeking the spotlight" argument feels like a pre-emptive deflection because everyone knows Lebron craves it.

I think the issue has to do with people acting like one guy being more comfortable in the spotlight or seeking it out more(whether its Magic, Shaq, Barkley or LeBron) is somehow a character flaw when compared to guys who like it less or actively push it away whether its Kareem, Duncan, Bird or whoever. Its not some big character flaw. Then on top of that we have to factor in things such as era and circumstances. So even if we can say that on a personal level MJ doesn't enjoy it to me he still sought it out due to the financial side of things. Which I think is definitely part of how and why LeBron does. There's absolutely no moral high ground here though regardless imo. Yes its perfectly ok to criticize LeBron for some of the takes and stances he's given out over the years but it'd also be ok I think to give him credit for some of them as well on top of the different charity work he'd done going back to his first or second season when he loaded up trucks with stuff to take down to New Orleans after Katrina happened there.

It's not a character flaw to be extroverted. The main thing is to just be yourself. Sometimes it looks like Lebron is trying to be something he's not and it comes across as insincere. I don't think his charitable work is in any way insincere or about spotlight though. I try not to be cynical about that stuff.

[FrobeBryant]

Not sure how it was earlier in his career, but I can tell you watching LeBron on my Lakers I’m seeing why he flops or exaggerates contact as much as he does. Dude gets hit on the head and every other part of his body with no whistle pretty often. He’s a big dude so more often he takes the contact and still finishes but a foul is a foul.

[NZB2323]

Players today are more protected in general. There are more touch fouls called today and it takes a lot less today to qualify for a flagrant foul than what it took in Jordan's day.

[Ballerhogger]

The famous push off comes to mind

[macNcheese3]

Commercials are endorsements and movies and interviews come to you when you are that good. That isn't looking for the spotlight. Does LeBron not have an opinion on so many things outside of Basketball? For example, the statement he made regarding the Rams and first round picks... I never heard or seen any clips of Jordan saying that. He went out and played the game. Did Jordan have a huge segment when he returned to the NBA like LeBron had the "decision". Those are the things I am inferring in my post. Not making anything up.

Pleading with the refs? Even scrubs do that. Who doesn't? LeBron has a big mouth compared to MJ, he peaks his beak into anything and everything.

The problem here is I don't get the sense you were a fan back then. MJ didn't give political opinions but I mean you don't become the most marketed athlete in the world just by being good at something. That would be similar to what Kareem did or even Duncan. MJ on the scale from 1(not seeking any fame or spotlight) to a 10 would be at least a 9. LeBron's probably a 9.8 because he toned down his commercials quite a bit in the last 5-10 years.

I don't think he was seeking the spotlight as much as just trying to make money. MJ made 2.5M when he won his first title and didn't make over 4M until 97 at which point he was basically hiding from the spotlight as much as possible as Last Dance showed. And yes, he did become the most marketed athlete in the world by being great at something because he did it with a level of self-confidence and freak athletic ability that it drew fans in in a way that guys like Kareem and Duncan never could.

Exactly what I was trying to argue.

[jehosafats]

Lebron below the rim is getting hacked. His being built like a tank has always influenced the ref's decision to swallow their whistles. But whatever, he has more career points than Jordan anyway.

[Cavsfansince84]

It's not a character flaw to be extroverted. The main thing is to just be yourself. Sometimes it looks like Lebron is trying to be something he's not and it comes across as insincere. I don't think his charitable work is in any way insincere or about spotlight though. I try not to be cynical about that stuff.

I think that's true of most athletes and celebrities to some degree. Yes even MJ. Its part of being aware of self image. Some people have had it out for LeBron since before he even got into the league though because they resented him being coined the Chosen One on the cover of SI at 16 and having many of his hs games shown on espn. Which some would say that's somehow just him trying to get in the spotlight like any other kid would turn it down or something.