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Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:02 am
by mstat13shuh
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Fade aways were part of what made Wilt undefendable.
Ititiating contact with the defender like Shaq and Moses did would be offensive fouls by 1960s rules.
I saw some very tickytack offensive fouls for minor hooking by the offensive player in the 1960s films that i watched.
The refs limited how Wilt could use his strength advantage but the fade away combined with Wilts length advantage made blocking Wilt impossible. Did the fade away make Wilt’s shot less accurate? The fade away probably Did make Wilt’s shot less accurate but it reduced the chance of even Russell blocking the shot.
Excellent points.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:16 am
by 70sFan
mstat13shuh wrote:70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:[b]Does anyone, not just on here, but anywhere PERIOD, honestly believe the NBA would've even remotely tolerated a 7'1" 270-300 lb outspoken, confident Afro-American male player not only consistently dunking his free throws, but also dunking the basketball on merely single, or even double coverage, for even one season?
Did anyone, following Wilt's rookie season, honestly believe the league would allow him to continue not only dunking alley-oops from behind the backboard, but also guiding his teammates field goal attempts, when they discovered how easy it was for him?
I think we have enough footage from Wilt's rookie season to know that they allowed him to do so. They certainly did in later seasons.
Smh, no 70sFan, you're underinformed about this, I'm sorry to say.
I've read about all the rule changes implemented for Wilt during his NBA & even college tenure, for that matter,
& to me there's no doubt whatsoever the NBA intended by any means to curtail, within the rules, his biblical offensive dominance.
What do you mean by that? Do you think Wilt wasn't allowed to dunk his teammates shots or did I miss your point?
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:23 am
by mstat13shuh
"What do you mean by that? Do you think Wilt wasn't allowed to dunk his teammates shots or did I miss your point?"
I believe you may have unintentionally missed my point, yes.
Because the offensive goaltending rule was implemented, as you may know, following Wilt's rookie season.
So, from then on, Wilt's wasn't allowed to guide in his teammates field goal attempts, as Dip so beautifully mentions in "View From Above."
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:51 am
by mstat13shuh
Tom Cruise "I WANT THE TRUTH"
Jack Nicholson "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH"
Smh lmdho, yea like the NBA, I believe, can't seem to handle the unforgiving truth about how THEY wanted to curtail Wilt Chamberlain's biblical offensive dominance almost immediately upon his entry into the sport.
Most people cannot even begin to imagine a number the things that Wilt Chamberlain accomplished on the basketball court,
even today.
Therefore, to someone like me, it's 100% imaginable the league office would implement the measures they obviously did to curtail it.
So why should it still surprise most people the NBA basically wanted to level the offensive playing field as much as possible to make the game more enjoyable for the "average" fan, particularly "Caucasian" fans?
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:01 am
by mstat13shuh
Additionally, and I perfectly understand as well this is still a particularly sensitive matter for many individuals, however, I will make this assertion here & now:
While it was true the league implemented a number of rules to limit George Mikan's offensive dominance,
I honestly believe they would've implemented even more than they already did if Mikan was predominantly Moorish(Afro-American),
like they obviously did with one Wilton Norman Chamberlain.
I mean, consider this for a moment:
Wilt stated in "Who's Running the Asylum" that Bill Walton was one of the centers who played more like him(Wilt)than most of the other centers.
But upon Walton's entry into the NBA in the fall of 1974(at least to my knowledge)no rules were implemented to curtail his offensive dominance.
I wonder why.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:33 am
by 70sFan
mstat13shuh wrote:"What do you mean by that? Do you think Wilt wasn't allowed to dunk his teammates shots or did I miss your point?"
I believe you may have unintentionally missed my point, yes.
Because the offensive goaltending rule was implemented, as you may know, following Wilt's rookie season.
So, from then on, Wilt's wasn't allowed to guide in his teammates field goal attempts, as Dip so beautifully mentions in "View From Above."
Let me get this straight - you think that the league disallowed offensive goaltending strictly because of Wilt Chamberlain and they never allowed him to catch his teammates shots and finish it? Is that what are you saying?
If so, then you are just wrong. Let's just look at game 5 of 1964 finals footage I have collected. Here are some examples:
I can find countless of examples from various moments of Wilt's career. Maybe I misunderstand you again, but if that's what you're saying then it's not true.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:35 am
by 70sFan
mstat13shuh wrote:So why should it still surprise most people the NBA basically wanted to level the offensive playing field as much as possible to make the game more enjoyable for the "average" fan, particularly "Caucasian" fans?
What is this nonsense?
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:33 am
by HeartBreakKid
The NBA made rules to limit Wilt Chamberlain because was black even though he was well liked by the media and not political. Why did they not same for the other dominant players of Wilt's era who were mostly black also? Bill Russell and Oscar Robertson are just as dominant and are more abrasive and were less popular than Wilt Chamberlain.
Wilt Chamberlain was the main asset for the NBA. He was a major figure in the United States and brought basketball to another level of commercialism. This theory makes little sense.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:19 am
by mstat13shuh
70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:So why should it still surprise most people the NBA basically wanted to level the offensive playing field as much as possible to make the game more enjoyable for the "average" fan, particularly "Caucasian" fans?
What is this nonsense?
Nonsense to someone like you.
Common sense to someone like me.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:23 am
by mstat13shuh
70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:"What do you mean by that? Do you think Wilt wasn't allowed to dunk his teammates shots or did I miss your point?"
I believe you may have unintentionally missed my point, yes.
Because the offensive goaltending rule was implemented, as you may know, following Wilt's rookie season.
So, from then on, Wilt's wasn't allowed to guide in his teammates field goal attempts, as Dip so beautifully mentions in "View From Above."
Let me get this straight - you think that the league disallowed offensive goaltending strictly because of Wilt Chamberlain and they never allowed him to catch his teammates shots and finish it? Is that what are you saying?
100%If so, then you are just wrong.
No 70sFan, all due respect & love, YOU are the one who's wrong here.Let's just look at game 5 of 1964 finals footage I have collected. Here are some examples:
I can find countless of examples from various moments of Wilt's career. Maybe I misunderstand you again, but if that's what you're saying then it's not true.
Yes it IS true, and YES, sadly, you're STILL misunderstanding me.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:38 am
by mstat13shuh
HeartBreakKid wrote:The NBA made rules to limit Wilt Chamberlain because was black even though he was well liked by the media and not political. True to a point, but actually FAR more complicated than that.
Why did they not same for the other dominant players of Wilt's era who were mostly black also? Bill Russell and Oscar Robertson are just as dominant and are more abrasive and were less popular than Wilt Chamberlain.
1. Well they did something similar for Russell at USF by widening the lane from 10-12 feet(I may have the length wrong, if so, anyone
feel free to correct me). But not in the NBA, at least to my knowledge.
2. I will 100% say that Russell was just as dominant, if not in some ways, more dominant defensively, than Wilt was.
But not offensively. Not even remotely close.
3. Oscar Robertson, as phenomenal as he obviously was & is, was NOT anywhere near as dominant as Wilt Chamberlain was.
However, I DO believe the league attempted to punish him in the sense that it was extremely difficult for him to form the 1st NBA
Players' Union, be the head of it, have NBA players receive a pension plan, and obtain management positions upon his retirement
from the game.
4. Wilt himself could be abrasive at times, but only if he felt disrespected to a certain degree.
Wilt Chamberlain was the main asset for the NBA. 100%
He was a major figure in the United States and brought basketball to another level of commercialism. 100% This theory makes little sense. It doesn't make sense to you probably because you're unable and/or unwilling to spiritually & psychologically comprehend what someone like me is able to.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:39 am
by mstat13shuh
mstat13shuh wrote:70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:"What do you mean by that? Do you think Wilt wasn't allowed to dunk his teammates shots or did I miss your point?"
I believe you may have unintentionally missed my point, yes.
Because the offensive goaltending rule was implemented, as you may know, following Wilt's rookie season.
So, from then on, Wilt's wasn't allowed to guide in his teammates field goal attempts, as Dip so beautifully mentions in "View From Above."
Let me get this straight - you think that the league disallowed offensive goaltending strictly because of Wilt Chamberlain and they never allowed him to catch his teammates shots and finish it? Is that what are you saying?
100%If so, then you are just wrong.
No 70sFan, all due respect & love, YOU are the one who's wrong here.Let's just look at game 5 of 1964 finals footage I have collected. Here are some examples:
I can find countless of examples from various moments of Wilt's career. Maybe I misunderstand you again, but if that's what you're saying then it's not true.
Yes it IS true, and YES, sadly, you're STILL misunderstanding me.
Are you certain this is from '64 & not '60?
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:02 am
by 70sFan
mstat13shuh wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:70sFan wrote:Let me get this straight - you think that the league disallowed offensive goaltending strictly because of Wilt Chamberlain and they never allowed him to catch his teammates shots and finish it? Is that what are you saying?
100%If so, then you are just wrong.
No 70sFan, all due respect & love, YOU are the one who's wrong here.Let's just look at game 5 of 1964 finals footage I have collected. Here are some examples:
I can find countless of examples from various moments of Wilt's career. Maybe I misunderstand you again, but if that's what you're saying then it's not true.
Yes it IS true, and YES, sadly, you're STILL misunderstanding me.
Are you certain this is from '64 & not '60?
I am 100% certain. It is a game 5 of 1964 finals. I can show you similar actions from Philadelphia 76ers years as well if you don't believe.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:03 am
by 70sFan
mstat13shuh wrote:70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:So why should it still surprise most people the NBA basically wanted to level the offensive playing field as much as possible to make the game more enjoyable for the "average" fan, particularly "Caucasian" fans?
What is this nonsense?
Nonsense to someone like you.
Common sense to someone like me.
Yeah, throwing baseless racist assumptions is not "common sense", sorry...
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:29 am
by HeartBreakKid
mstat13shuh wrote:
He was a major figure in the United States and brought basketball to another level of commercialism. 100% This theory makes little sense. It doesn't make sense to you probably because you're unable and/or unwilling to spiritually & psychologically comprehend what someone like me is able to.
[/quote]
Racism has nothing to do with your spirituality.
It sounds like to me you're saying this on a hunch probably based on that because Wilt Chamberlain is black and because it is the past they are more racist - therefore, there is a racial incentive to make Wilt Chamberlain bad. Which doesn't add up in more ways than one and lacks any nuance.
Basketball players did go through blatant racism back then but the things you're saying about not allowing Chamberlain to dunk from the free throw line is not one of them. After Wilt Chamberlain retired that rule still exists....and why would that rule help a white person more than it would a black person? Black players were dominated by Chamberlain just as much as white players were.
I don't think you thought about this that far.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:19 pm
by FlyingScotsman
I do definitely think Wilt in todays game would use his body and power even more but I still wouldn’t think he’d be like Shaq he wasn’t built the same at all, sure he had the height, length and athleticism but not the overall mass especially the lower body strength and power (plus mentality to use it)
That said I do see Wilt being a bigger post playing Giannis mixed with Embiid so to speak…. sure he obv would still dunk on people (like he did in his day as well) but I just don’t see him constantly carving out space using his lower body and being as aggressive as Shaq was.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:27 pm
by Owly
70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:
Are you certain this is from '64 & not '60?
I am 100% certain. It is a game 5 of 1964 finals. I can show you similar actions from Philadelphia 76ers years as well if you don't believe.
One clip (at least, if one were in doubt they are from the same series) could easily be confirmed as not '60. There is a Warriors number 55 in the thumbnail. This fits Wayne Hightower in his second year in '64. It fits no Warrior in '60.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:45 pm
by 70sFan
Owly wrote:70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:
Are you certain this is from '64 & not '60?
I am 100% certain. It is a game 5 of 1964 finals. I can show you similar actions from Philadelphia 76ers years as well if you don't believe.
One clip (at least, if one were in doubt they are from the same series) could easily be confirmed as not '60. There is a Warriors number 55 in the thumbnail. This fits Wayne Hightower in his second year in '64. It fits no Warrior in '60.
This is my source - it's cleary a game 5 from 1964 finals:
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:43 am
by mstat13shuh
mstat13shuh wrote:penbeast0 wrote:mstat13shuh warned for attacking other posters and evading the language filter.
I only attack those who attack me. Period.Warned for derailing - CF
Smdh, just for actual clarification, I meant
psychological attack, not physical.
Re: Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:46 am
by mstat13shuh
70sFan wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:mstat13shuh wrote:
Are you certain this is from '64 & not '60?
I am 100% certain. It is a game 5 of 1964 finals. I can show you similar actions from Philadelphia 76ers years as well if you don't believe.
Ok, but, like it or not, it still doesn't change the fact that offensive goaltending was disallowed by the NBA following Wilt's rookie season.